Redundancies in VNs

[InvertMouse]

I've recently finished a visual novel named 999 and loved it. My workmate, on the other hand, gave up on it halfway through. He said it was because the script was too redundant. Specifically, the protagonist repeatedly described things that were already on screen. *A girl with red hair appears* "Before me stands a girl with red hair." That kind of deal.

With 999, I never thought this was a big issue, but indeed, I would prefer if the script just soldiered on a bit quicker. I was wondering if this is something that bothers you guys also? That extra description for clarity; do you appreciate it or find it tedious?

Speaking of redundancy, I might just talk on for a bit longer. Many have been saying that Little Busters is great. I'm sure it is, but unfortunately, I never gave it the time it deserves. You know battle scenes with classmates throwing stuff in? Also, the gags with Masato learning new techniques. Last, those baseball minigames, etc. When I saw those, I was just wondering when the plot was going to start developing. The anime also has these scenes, but everything's more condensed, and really, that's all I have time for. We all have a lot to do. At the risk of sounding impatient, I often just want things to get faster to the point .

[Ryoji]

doesnt bother me, to me it adds comedy.

I guess it depends on the VN. Ive never been a fan of mini games. Only very few have been enjoyable to me. Although i do play them if the game requires it.

[sanahtlig]

Less is more. Every scene and every paragraph should serve a purpose. Unnecessary dialogue is a big turnoff for me in VNs, particularly when it just focuses around moe banter and repetitive reinforcement of stereotypical traits. One of the likely reasons I prefer fantasy settings is that the need to establish the setting tends to reduce the amount of pointless fluff interactions. Although there's always games like Seinarukana that strive to prove me wrong.

[Down]

I hate above all reading stuff I've already read, and it often makes me lose my attention thread and breaks the rythm of the story.

I can handle pointless chatter and cooking scenes just fine though, as long as the degree of silliness is not too high... Redundancy in description and sprites is, I think, inherent to VNs, because, well, as I see it, it's supposed to be a book above everything else. Sprites are just an addition for immersion. In fact I think it just feels natural and expected, when some character pops up in front of him, to have the MC go 'some red-clothed girl appears in front of me' or whatever.

[Guest]

that's the problem with so many VNs.... too much padding

i think they are paid by the word, and not paid by the job

and they get asked to write so many so many words even if the plot doesnt fit into that length of words well...

[Ryoji]

that's the problem with so many VNs.... too much padding

i think they are paid by the word, and not paid by the job

and they get asked to write so many so many words even if the plot doesnt fit into that length of words well...

Wow really? No wonder theres extra filler sometimes. If I was a writer id do that to get paid more. Cant really blame the writers if thats the case. Everyone wants more money. Especially if they have families.

We all know nowadays the economy sucks and times are hard for a lot of people.

[Metaler]

Gramatical redundancy in relation to the image presented on the screen has never really bothered me, since I always thought it added a bit more flavor to the VN. To me, it makes the story more vivid, both verbally and with images.

But, as it was said before, every phrase in a text has a purpose, even if it is minimal, and many VNs seem to have lines and pieces of dialogue that add nothing to the story at all, or even to the setting, the characters, and so forth. And speaking of which, it is actually one of the main faults with Ever17, which is quite sad as the story's awesome.

As such, this doesn't apply only to VNs, but to every written medium. Adding phrases "just to fill in space" always hinders a text, making it more tiresome to read and, of course, pointless. It's like when you're tying a knot and all of a sudden you decide to add in some iron stick in there.

[InvertMouse]

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

Down, well, I don't want to think that books tend to have redundancies as well, but that's fair enough .

If it is true that writers are paid by the word, that would explain a lot. Also, I've noticed sometimes fanmade VNs boast about how many words it contains. For me, when they say there are tons of words in the game, I just become more worried that it means the script is covered with fluff. Unfortunately, most of the time, that is indeed the case. On the other hand, when a VN comes right out and says it's a concise experience, then count me in.

The same thing happens with video games. We're often really concerned about how long a game is before buying it. No wonder why developers are pressured into making their games longer, even if it's through sometimes contrived methods. It's a tough discussion, though. We pay for these games, so of course we want them to be reasonable in length.

I love Narcissu. That game is about 5 hours long. I would've gladly paid full price for it. The quality should be far take priority over anything else.

Looking forward to more opinions .

[Metaler]

^ Concerning games, I actually feel like they're getting shorter, at least American games are (not saying European ones because they're on a whole different level, like Max Payne, Serious Sam, etc...). I remember when I first played Gears of War 2 for the first time and thought the single player campaign was so short it was laughable. You can't even get a proper taste of the game.

[InvertMouse]

Metaler, yeah, I've had those kinds of thoughts as well. But then I think back to my childhood, with the SNES, Gameboy, etc. Let's say Ninja Gaiden on the Gameboy. My dad bought me that for fifty bucks (thanks Dad!), and the game was like an hour long. Of course, this applies to countless other titles at the time.

We also need to stress that long doesn't automatically mean bad. Half Life 1 and 2, for example, were full length games. However, each of their stages offered a different challenge. As long as the gameplay stays diverse, the game can be as long as it wants and I'll still enjoy it.

Mass Effect, on the other hand, did feel repetitive. I love the game a lot, but I was just mowing down army after army using the same tactics. If I've proven as a player that I can beat Army A, then I don't really want to fight 20 more Army A's. Then again, I played it on normal so maybe that's why .

[REtransInternational]

Specifically, the protagonist repeatedly described things that were already on screen. *A girl with red hair appears* "Before me stands a girl with red hair." That kind of deal.

On the other hand... at least it's consistent.

[InvertMouse]

On the other hand... at least it's consistent.

Hahahahaha, gold XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BFlorry]

On the other hand... at least it's consistent.

<3 the fact that no other people are drawn in to the cg sometimes.

[sanahtlig]

^ Concerning games, I actually feel like they're getting shorter, at least American games are (not saying European ones because they're on a whole different level, like Max Payne, Serious Sam, etc...). I remember when I first played Gears of War 2 for the first time and thought the single player campaign was so short it was laughable. You can't even get a proper taste of the game.

Big-budget Western games are turning into Holywood movies. They spend an unnecessary amount of money on graphics and creating an immersive experience through effects and as a result they're often short and unsatisfying. They try and make up for the resulting lack of content by adding in multiplayer and expecting players to entertain each other.

[Down]

Big-budget Western games are turning into Holywood movies. They spend an unnecessary amount of money on graphics and creating an immersive experience through effects and as a result they're often short and unsatisfying. They try and make up for the resulting lack of content by adding in multiplayer and expecting players to entertain each other.

Not to mention DLCs which is probably the worst thing ever. 'Hey, so you're gonna pay full price for half of the game, and then you can buy the rest into small pieces for an abusive price, thus breaking the continuity and the rhythm of the game. Enjoy.'

[InvertMouse]

Sanahtlig, Down, it'll be cool to hear your thoughts on my previous response as well . Yeah, a lot of DLCs do feel like cash-ins. I absolutely only pick up the ones that I'm interested in. None of the multiplayer ones for me~

As for the length, I'm still remembering that Gameboy and SNES games from my days were mostly just as long (or short). I'm very biased with old school stuff, because I love retro, but when I really think about it, that's what's crossing my mind.

With older games like Star Wars KOTOR, multiple endings were feasible because the scenes are largely presented via text. These days, with games like Mass Effect, they're shown in fully rendered cutscenes. They cost a lot more money to produce. So, to create alternate routes that half the audience will not see must be a tough choice to make. With that said, should they still have done it to satisfy the players? Or should they have presented the endings in a more cost effective way? Wait, but when they released that free Extended Cut DLC, people were mad about the slideshow presentation. Or is this all being too lenient, because Bioware and EA do indeed have the money to just suck it up and do things better?

Thanks .

[Eldin]

On the other hand... at least it's consistent.

the best kind of humor.

[Ruri]

I hate above all reading stuff I've already read, and it often makes me lose my attention thread and breaks the rythm of the story.

I can handle pointless chatter and cooking scenes just fine though, as long as the degree of silliness is not too high... Redundancy in description and sprites is, I think, inherent to VNs, because, well, as I see it, it's supposed to be a book above everything else. Sprites are just an addition for immersion. In fact I think it just feels natural and expected, when some character pops up in front of him, to have the MC go 'some red-clothed girl appears in front of me' or whatever.

That VNs are "books" more than games is a fact most people most likely forget. They tell a story after all with words. Backgrounds and sprites are there to get rid of all the need you have in books to describe the area where the story takes place, which characters are there, their expressions etc. Sure you still have some of those elements in the text, but in the end you focus more on what's said and thought and felt.

that's the problem with so many VNs.... too much padding

i think they are paid by the word, and not paid by the job

and they get asked to write so many so many words even if the plot doesnt fit into that length of words well...

I'd think it's more a calculation of how long the VN should be - in read time - and how much text that is for an average reader. Writer starts writing the story, but then hits the target length not completely. What's easier? Just adding some repetitive description of what you see on the screen anyway in the BG/sprites or adding more plot, which can give you the problem of overshooting the target length (by a lot) while being sure that the new plot elements don't stick out like a sore thumb?

On the other hand... at least it's consistent.

That's most likely a reason of cost: Use a background which you need at another place anyway and is thus drawn already, or draw a new one for most likely only a short scene of 3 or 4 sentences?

[torbin12]

About redundancy, as has been stated, alot of VNs are written like books, which need those redundant details to really draw the entire picture in your head. What I mean is that, even if you have the image of the person in your head while reading it, re-reading a description reinforces that image to fullness, and even in VNs, where they do have artwork with them, the redundancy helps to reinforce....cinematics? in your head, actions that the characters are taking, like, instead of her just appearing on screen, 'a girl with red hair comes up to me' and 'a red-haired girl jumps out in front of me' helps you to put together a scene in your head, with a redhead walking up to you from across the street, or around a corner, etc. where she is actually moving and alive in your imagination now.

About DLC, I don't 'mind' DLC too much, as long as they dont do what...I think it was Fable 3...did, where they actually put DLC merchants IN game, you are strolling along the woods, run across a man begging for help, only to be hit with 'well, if you want to help me, just purchase the XX DLC' That is when it goes to far for me.