Anime which don't seem like anime to you

[Mr Poltroon]

This refers to any Japanese animation you've watched which doesn't 'feel' or 'look' like anime. Then again, this is highly subjective, but personally, I think we should all have a good idea of what most anime looks like.

 

A few days ago, I found out that "Maya the Bee" cartoons were actually anime. 

I'll list all the ones we find on the OP, and each of us will be able to determine whether we agree or not ourselves.

 

List so far:

1)

Maya the Bee

2) Alps no Shoujo Heidi

3) Kaiba

4) Panty & Stocking

5) Ping Pong The Animation

6) Aku no Hana

7) Kaguya-hime no Monogatari

Dead Leaves

9) Tekkon Kinkreet

10) Mononoke

11) Crayon Shin-chan

[Nosebleed]

Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt comes to mind. It's actually surprisingly good too.

Another one would be Kaiba which doesn't exactly feel like an anime.

Lastly I think you in particular would recall Alps no Shoujo: Heidi which does feel like an anime to some extent if you look at it now but was never advertised as such.

[Mr Poltroon]

Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt comes to mind. It's actually surprisingly good too.

Another one would be Kaiba which doesn't exactly feel like an anime.

Lastly I think you in particular would recall Alps no Shoujo: Heidi which does feel like an anime to some extent if you look at it now but was never advertised as such.

Wow...

That last one.... Sometimes, when I was by myself, I remembered tidbits of something I had watched years ago, maybe a mill or farm? And an old man somewhere. But that is as far as I remembered. 

But when I heard the opening upon researching this. Wow... 

 

As for the other two, they certainly don't look like anime.

[Down]

Heidi is a classic of 70s animation so it'd feel weird to not consider it anime-like.

 

The problem here is the canons of animation are constantly evolving, and 70s anime like Maya the Bee were actually "anime-like" at their time, because pre-1979, and even more pre-1974 japanese animation didn't have a core adult fanbase like it had after when this particular culture started thriving with Yamato and Gundam. But should we consider everything prior to this "not anime-like"? Doesn't seem right.

 

That aside, I don't really know how to answer your question. PS&G is obviously a satire of american cartoons so it should qualify I suppose, but what do you consider not anime-like? I really don't think it's obvious. Is it design? Cultural?

[Mr Poltroon]

Heidi is a classic of 70s animation so it'd feel weird to not consider it anime-like.

 

The problem here is the canons of animation are constantly evolving, and 70s anime like Maya the Bee were actually "anime-like" at their time, because pre-1979, and even more pre-1974 japanese animation didn't have a core adult fanbase like it had after when this particular culture started thriving with Yamato and Gundam. But should we consider everything prior to this "not anime-like"? Doesn't seem right.

 

That aside, I don't really know how to answer your question. PS&G is obviously a satire of american cartoons so it should qualify I suppose, but what do you consider not anime-like? I really don't think it's obvious. Is it design? Cultural?

Well, just give your own opinion. It might look anime-like for someone who watches anime of such time, but not for someone who only started watching recently, like me. At the time, I didn't even know those were anime, so they don't feel like anime to me.

Just make a suggestion, people can figure it out themselves.

 

It's not like there's any wrong answers, but go ahead, surprise me.

[Ariurotl]

A few days ago, I found out that "Maya the Bee" cartoons were actually anime.

Mind blown. I used to watch it as a kid, never thought it was Japanese.

[Nosebleed]

Indeed Heidi is a classic of 70's anime but at the time you watched it and thought it was just like any other cartoon most likely. You didn't think it was something specific like an "anime" per say because it didn't have a particular distinctive characteristic from other cartoons (aside from the character depth which if you look back on now was far superior). But when you watch most things nowadays it all looks familiar, because it follows certain patterns. I think Tiago is mostly referring to anime that don't follow these patterns. Even if they're just "old anime". Nowadays you can clearly tell a western cartoon from an anime appart because of the techniques they use are so different. What we want to find out here is stuff you watched at the time that easily blended in with other western cartoons but were in fact anime and you didn't possibly know about. I think that's what Tiago was trying to get at. Or at least that's what I gathered. 

 

One really recent one (and highly praised too) is Ping Pong The Animation. I never watched it though.

Another less highly praised one is Aku no Hana which was done with rotoscopy techniques, hence why it looks odd to some.

[Mr Poltroon]

One really recent one (and highly praised too) is Ping Pong The Animation. I never watched it though.

Another less highly praised one is Aku no Hana which was done with rotoscopy techniques, hence why it looks odd to some.

Odd seems like an understatement.

And yes, Ping Pong the Animation looks distinctly Japanese. But doesn't look like anime. Same goes for Aku no Hana.

 

That wasn't what I had in mind when I made the thread, but they are a good take on it, which will be added to the rest of them.

[Down]

I didn't really watch any anime when I was a kid, except Pokemon. I didn't even watch so much cartoons to begin with. So I don't have any example of things like that, personally. But that's a very subjective criteria, I think. I could have watched something as anime-defining as Evangelion while being a kid and not realize it was an anime, which would lead to me saying that "Evangelion is not anime-like". That's, like, absurd.

 

I also think that erring on the cultural side would end up being nonsensical, so I guess I can try to give some anime with non-standard artistic direction:

-All of Yuasa's stuff (Nosebleed already mentioned Kaiba and Ping-Pong, there's also Mind Game, Kemonozume, Kick-Heart and Tatami Galaxy)

-Mononoke

-Tekkon Kinkurito

-Dead Leaves

-Kaguya-Hime no Monogatari

-Also a bunch of shorts...

I avoided old stuff, since standards were different.

 

But it's really hard, honestly. Everything I cited above feels very anime to me.

[Mr Poltroon]

I didn't really watch any anime when I was a kid, except Pokemon. I didn't even watch so much cartoons to begin with. So I don't have any example of things like that, personally. But that's a very subjective criteria, I think. I could have watched something as anime-defining as Evangelion while being a kid and not realize it was an anime, which would lead to me saying that "Evangelion is not anime-like". That's, like, absurd.

 

But it's really hard, honestly. Everything I cited above feels very anime to me.

I know it's highly subjective, but some people might learn of stuff they watched before without learning they were anime, or some people might just gape in wonder at stuff that looks nothing like anime. And if it feels or looks like anime to you, don't suggest it. 

People who've watched a lot of anime could have difficulty understanding this topic, this is because they've got some wide and broad horizons, spanning all the way from aberrations to the usual deal. If I told you the "weirdest looking anime" would it feel better for your sore heart?

[pokemon123]

shin-chan I think? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crayon_Shin-chan

[Mr Poltroon]

shin-chan I think? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crayon_Shin-chan

That one looks pretty weird. Definitely different from the conventional norms.

[Down]

That one looks pretty weird. Definitely different from the conventional norms.

I think we're only one step away from adding Sazae-san, Doraemon and Mahoutsukai Sally to the list.

 

Which would make it contain some of the most popular kids/family anime that the average japanese would be much more familiar with than with recent late-night otaku anime. Again, the reason why they don't look like today's anime is precisely because they were made in the 70s. It's absurd to judge a kids show from the 70s with the norms of adult anime of the 2000s.

 

I really don't get the point of this thread ;_; I'd better go out.

[Okami]

Well I think that a lot of old Anime aren't much Anime-like, and that their stories and characters feel more like stuff for live-action movies/series.  I don't won't to specific anything so I can avoid the wrath of old-school anime fans and keep this thread civil but that is how I feel.

[babiker]

I don't think this one has anything to do with anything, but for some reason I always think about it when the Japanesey-nish of anime is questioned. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kappa_Mikey

[Mr Poltroon]

I think we're only one step away from adding Sazae-san, Doraemon and Mahoutsukai Sally to the list.

 

Which would make it contain some of the most popular kids/family anime that the average japanese would be much more familiar with than with recent late-night otaku anime. Again, the reason why they don't look like today's anime is precisely because they were made in the 70s. It's absurd to judge a kids show from the 70s with the norms of adult anime of the 2000s.

 

I really don't get the point of this thread ;_; I'd better go out.

Ok, ok, ok. I've edited the title. Is that any better for your heartburn?

 

The point is that, for some people, it doesn't look like the "anime" they know and love. Gives off this weird feeling of weirdness. For example, I didn't suggest Doraemon because even when I was younger, I always saw it as anime. Same for the Pokemon's and other things. This doesn't impede someone else from suggesting them, though. I wouldn't agree with it, but they might think so, and maybe someone else will, too.

So long as the person suggesting it thinks so, otherwise its pointless.

Another interpretation Nosebleed gave with his suggestions, is distinctly Japanese, yet not anime-like, which is quite strange.

 

Well I think that a lot of old Anime aren't much Anime-like, and that their stories and characters feel more like stuff for live-action movies/series.  I don't won't to specific anything so I can avoid the wrath of old-school anime fans and keep this thread civil but that is how I feel.

Are you that afraid of the wrath of the people? There's not much they could say. It's evident old stuff doesn't look like the new stuff. The fashion in ancient Greece was different from the one we use nowadays, so it'd look weird for the people of today.

If you're speaking about their plots and stuff, then I wouldn't really know, but we could make a new thread for that.

 

I don't think this one has anything to do with anything, but for some reason I always think about it when the Japanesey-nish of anime is questioned. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kappa_Mikey

No, it has nothing to do with nothing. Wait, what does that sentence even mean? Does it have something to do with everything? 

[Okami]

Are you that afraid of the wrath of the people? There's not much they could say. It's evident old stuff doesn't look like the new stuff. The fashion in ancient Greece was different from the one we use nowadays, so it'd look weird for the people of today.

If you're speaking about their plots and stuff, then I wouldn't really know, but we could make a new thread for that.

 

Rather then plot I am talking more about a way of storytelling, characters, way how everything is done. Sure graphic/art style is an easiest way to say that something doesn't look anime-like but before that I am thinking about other characteristics that Anime have and most other media don't. Like for examples characters in anime usually have more dept to them and are shown more like persons then just like characters in a story like in live action movie,  the way to explain it better is, well you know how live action shows concentrate on telling you a story and not so much on characters from a story, they usually just show you what is happening but rarely explains you why did witch character do what, how is he like, what he thought etc. Then there is an Anime culture, you surly noticed that culture in anime tend to be rather different from culture in 3D word, sure some could say that's because anime come from Japan and Japanese culture is different from western culture, but then again anime culture is very different then real Japanese culture too, at least as much as western culture is different from Japanese culture is Japanese culture different from anime culture, but probably that difference is even bigger. Those things as well as many others are an important part of anime and anime without them doesn't fell very anime-like, sure as long as it has anime-like art style you could tell that it's from Japan but that doesn't mean that it's anime-like. Sure they still tend to be even further away from western cartoons then anime, but they can often be very close to live action series/movies to the point that if they weren't animated they would fit in with Hollywood movies/series perfectly. Some would say that animation is what makes anime anime but not me, I think that there is much more then animation that makes anime, and so I say that anime that don't have those things are not very much anime-like. Off course there is also a meter of degree of just how much does some anime stray from being anime so there are anime that don't fell much like anime and those that don't fell like anime at all, and things in between.

 

Some random examples from top of my head would be Vampire Hunter D (2000) and Street Fighter II: The Movie. To create a full list I would need go true my list and to separate all titles into degrees of just how much are they not anime-like. And that would take time witch I don't have at a moment, I could probably do it in next few days if you are really interested to hear out my opinion of exactly with of anime that I watch I don't consider to be anime-like, why, and to what degree.

[Mr Poltroon]

Rather then plot I am talking more about a way of storytelling, characters, way how everything is done. Sure graphic/art style is an easiest way to say that something doesn't look anime-like but before that I am thinking about other characteristics that Anime have and most other media don't. Like for examples characters in anime usually have more dept to them and are shown more like persons then just like characters in a story like in live action movie,  the way to explain it better is, well you know how live action shows concentrate on telling you a story and not so much on characters from a story, they usually just show you what is happening but rarely explains you why did witch character do what, how is he like, what he thought etc. Then there is an Anime culture, you surly noticed that culture in anime tend to be rather different from culture in 3D word, sure some could say that's because anime come from Japan and Japanese culture is different from western culture, but then again anime culture is very different then real Japanese culture too, at least as much as western culture is different from Japanese culture is Japanese culture different from anime culture, but probably that difference is even bigger. Those things as well as many others are an important part of anime and anime without them doesn't fell very anime-like, sure as long as it has anime-like art style you could tell that it's from Japan but that doesn't mean that it's anime-like. Sure they still tend to be even further away from western cartoons then anime, but they can often be very close to live action series/movies to the point that if they weren't animated they would fit in with Hollywood movies/series perfectly. Some would say that animation is what makes anime anime but not me, I think that there is much more then animation that makes anime, and so I say that anime that don't have those things are not very much anime-like. Off course there is also a meter of degree of just how much does some anime stray from being anime so there are anime that don't fell much like anime and those that don't fell like anime at all, and things in between.

 

Some random examples from top of my head would be Vampire Hunter D (2000) and Street Fighter II: The Movie. To create a full list I would need go true my list and to separate all titles into degrees of just how much are they not anime-like. And that would take time witch I don't have at a moment, I could probably do it in next few days if you are really interested to hear out my opinion of exactly with of anime that I watch I don't consider to be anime-like, why, and to what degree.

Well, muting opinions is bad or so the secret police chief has told me, so yeah, I'd like to hear more about this.

 

I haven't watched or care enough about this to give my own opinion, unfortunately.

 

This is yet another way to speak about anime. What you have said could be inherently wrong, but it wouldn't stop it from being your opinion. You distinguish anime or non-anime by their style, characters, plot or just content. Other people may do it by artstyle. Or just the same way you do. 

 

PS: I think you made a mistake, you made a paragraph at the end.

[Down]

 

Like for examples characters in anime usually have more dept to them and are shown more like persons then just like characters in a story like in live action movie,  the way to explain it better is, well you know how live action shows concentrate on telling you a story and not so much on characters from a story, they usually just show you what is happening but rarely explains you why did witch character do what, how is he like, what he thought etc.

I completely disagree with this notion. There are anime with brilliantly written characters with a lot of depth, but there are also tons of extremely shallow ones where characters can be entirely summed up by an archetype or a set of physical characteristics and one or two traits of personality. Conversely "live-action" movies/series can have poor and excellent characters too. I don't think it's possible to pull out any significant difference, even with a huge knowledge of both.

 

 

Then there is an Anime culture, you surly noticed that culture in anime tend to be rather different from culture in 3D word, sure some could say that's because anime come from Japan and Japanese culture is different from western culture, but then again anime culture is very different then real Japanese culture too, at least as much as western culture is different from Japanese culture is Japanese culture different from anime culture, but probably that difference is even bigger. Those things as well as many others are an important part of anime and anime without them doesn't fell very anime-like, sure as long as it has anime-like art style you could tell that it's from Japan but that doesn't mean that it's anime-like. Sure they still tend to be even further away from western cartoons then anime, but they can often be very close to live action series/movies to the point that if they weren't animated they would fit in with Hollywood movies/series perfectly. Some would say that animation is what makes anime anime but not me, I think that there is much more then animation that makes anime, and so I say that anime that don't have those things are not very much anime-like.

This I mostly agree with though, on principle at least since I think we have rather different notions of what anime as a culture is.

 

Especially since anime as a media changes progressively and 70s anime, 80s anime, 90s anime or 2000s anime are all rather different things. Yet you can't just ditch the past and only keep recent things. The current state of anime culture is a very closed one, with a lot rehash of the same things over and over with few influences from the outside, but it still is the result of the evolution of what anime was 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

 

But it's true that just animation or design by themselves are poor qualifiers of anime, which is really more a culture than anything else.

[OriginalRen]

Rather then plot I am talking more about a way of storytelling, characters, way how everything is done. Sure graphic/art style is an easiest way to say that something doesn't look anime-like but before that I am thinking about other characteristics that Anime have and most other media don't. Like for examples characters in anime usually have more dept to them and are shown more like persons then just like characters in a story like in live action movie,  the way to explain it better is, well you know how live action shows concentrate on telling you a story and not so much on characters from a story, they usually just show you what is happening but rarely explains you why did witch character do what, how is he like, what he thought etc. Then there is an Anime culture, you surly noticed that culture in anime tend to be rather different from culture in 3D word, sure some could say that's because anime come from Japan and Japanese culture is different from western culture, but then again anime culture is very different then real Japanese culture too, at least as much as western culture is different from Japanese culture is Japanese culture different from anime culture, but probably that difference is even bigger. Those things as well as many others are an important part of anime and anime without them doesn't fell very anime-like, sure as long as it has anime-like art style you could tell that it's from Japan but that doesn't mean that it's anime-like. Sure they still tend to be even further away from western cartoons then anime, but they can often be very close to live action series/movies to the point that if they weren't animated they would fit in with Hollywood movies/series perfectly. Some would say that animation is what makes anime anime but not me, I think that there is much more then animation that makes anime, and so I say that anime that don't have those things are not very much anime-like. Off course there is also a meter of degree of just how much does some anime stray from being anime so there are anime that don't fell much like anime and those that don't fell like anime at all, and things in between.

 

Some random examples from top of my head would be Vampire Hunter D (2000) and Street Fighter II: The Movie. To create a full list I would need go true my list and to separate all titles into degrees of just how much are they not anime-like. And that would take time witch I don't have at a moment, I could probably do it in next few days if you are really interested to hear out my opinion of exactly with of anime that I watch I don't consider to be anime-like, why, and to what degree.

I completely disagree with this notion. There are anime with brilliantly written characters with a lot of depth, but there are also tons of extremely shallow ones where characters can be entirely summed up by an archetype or a set of physical characteristics and one or two traits of personality. Conversely "live-action" movies/series can have poor and excellent characters too. I don't think it's possible to pull out any significant difference, even with a huge knowledge of both.

 

This I mostly agree with though, on principle at least since I think we have rather different notions of what anime as a culture is.

 

Especially since anime as a media changes progressively and 70s anime, 80s anime, 90s anime or 2000s anime are all rather different things. Yet you can't just ditch the past and only keep recent things. The current state of anime culture is a very closed one, with a lot rehash of the same things over and over with few influences from the outside, but it still is the result of the evolution of what anime was 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

 

But it's true that just animation or design by themselves are poor qualifiers of anime, which is really more a culture than anything else.

 

I think another thing to consider is that a lot of anime tends to focus on the fantasies of the writer, even if it was adapted from a manga. These fantasies either relate to real life events or ways they wish life was like. For example, I agree with the fact that the Japanese culture is nothing like that in a VN or anime, but considering that the majority of writers for shows are predominantly male (I could be wrong on that so please feel free to quote me if I am), you can usually expect lewd jokes or panty shots to be present.

 

Which brings me to another point in that anime seems to have shifted its tastes in the past years. Older anime tended to be a lot more action packed (i.e. = robots) while anime now tends to focus on the bishoujo aspect. There are so many females in every show nowadays that predominately take the spotlight a lot of the time, and even when they don't, the harem aspect is almost a must.

 

To put it into shorten terms, I feel that anime used to be about things that boys generally liked when growing up (i.e. = robots, samurai, fighting). Now, I feel anime appeals to horny Japanese males and focuses on boobs, panties, sex, and lewd jokes.

[Mr Poltroon]

Which brings me to another point in that anime seems to have shifted its tastes in the past years. Older anime tended to be a lot more action packed (i.e. = robots) while anime now tends to focus on the bishoujo aspect. There are so many females in every show nowadays that predominately take the spotlight a lot of the time, and even when they don't, the harem aspect is almost a must.

 

To put it into shorten terms, I feel that anime used to be about things that boys generally liked when growing up (i.e. = robots, samurai, fighting). Now, I feel anime appeals to horny Japanese males and focuses on boobs, panties, sex, and lewd jokes.

I must admit... There's something I don't quite agree with. 

Isn't what you are describing mostly a genre thing? I admit a certain genre can be more prominent that others, but you can find all kinds of stuff, can't you? You could find fighting and robot anime's nowadays if you look for it. Otherwise, I mostly agree.

 

PS: I also request that this discussion gets split into a new topic "Old anime and Newer Anime"

[Down]

 

Which brings me to another point in that anime seems to have shifted its tastes in the past years. Older anime tended to be a lot more action packed (i.e. = robots) while anime now tends to focus on the bishoujo aspect. There are so many females in every show nowadays that predominately take the spotlight a lot of the time, and even when they don't, the harem aspect is almost a must.

 

To put it into shorten terms, I feel that anime used to be about things that boys generally liked when growing up (i.e. = robots, samurai, fighting). Now, I feel anime appeals to horny Japanese males and focuses on boobs, panties, sex, and lewd jokes.

Hm, well anime has been an oversexualized media since the 80s, the obsession of a large part of the hardcore fans for the girls in the shows is not really new. Shows used to be packed with action AND girls.

It's just that now things are more direct: a good part of the target audience doesn't want more than fap fodder to buy stuff, so anime are made with the Comiket in mind.

Still, tons of anime are not just doujin material. If you take a look at this season you can find several anime with almost no girl in the cast and lots of them with a balanced cast.

[Okami]

I think another thing to consider is that a lot of anime tends to focus on the fantasies of the writer, even if it was adapted from a manga. These fantasies either relate to real life events or ways they wish life was like. For example, I agree with the fact that the Japanese culture is nothing like that in a VN or anime, but considering that the majority of writers for shows are predominantly male (I could be wrong on that so please feel free to quote me if I am), you can usually expect lewd jokes or panty shots to be present.

 

Which brings me to another point in that anime seems to have shifted its tastes in the past years. Older anime tended to be a lot more action packed (i.e. = robots) while anime now tends to focus on the bishoujo aspect. There are so many females in every show nowadays that predominately take the spotlight a lot of the time, and even when they don't, the harem aspect is almost a must.

 

To put it into shorten terms, I feel that anime used to be about things that boys generally liked when growing up (i.e. = robots, samurai, fighting). Now, I feel anime appeals to horny Japanese males and focuses on boobs, panties, sex, and lewd jokes.

 

I disagree on this part, it is true that in older anime there ware more of action genre and now there is more of a romance genre, but romance genre is most definitely not about "boobs, panties, sex, and lewd jokes" or to summarize it up ecchi genre witch was present in older anime too. There might be a little more of it now days but generally it's not really so much of anime thing as much of media as a whole, I mean in recent years they are adding sex in anything.

 

But like Tiago said this is a genre meter witch is generally off-topic.

 

 

And just to make it clear I newer said that all of older anime or most of older anime are not anime-like I just said that there is a lot of older anime that I find to be not very anime-like, and off course there is some of newer stuff that I also find not very much anime-like. One such example would be psycho-pass that I just finished watching.

[zoom909]

Chuumon no Ooi Ryouri-ten had an odd visual style which didn't feel like an anime.

Of course there are plenty of other anime that pop up occasionally with an atypical art style, but usually I end up hating them because of that.  This one I didn't.

 

And I guess movies like Pattenrai feel kind of unusual to me, I know there are other historical anime out there, but they tend to get lost in the flood of fantasy/sci-fi/comedy etc.  Not that I'm complaining about that.