RinXD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I think its more because most Japanese companies have a nationalism complex and believe westerners are not profitable or worthy of their products Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakamutt Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Well he is saying that even the plot is being censored...yep I'm not backing it now if that's the case. Are you really reading this? He's pretty much saying they will try to uncensor censored parts of the plot. Granted, there might be some fragments of it left so it's not entirely wrong, but that's done by Frontwing to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nohman Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 This is why Localization fails in the west cause they dont listen to the fans I wouldn't declare this a sunk ship yet. Obviously we'll have to wait for more specific details about what they're going to do regarding the 18+ version. If they're able to fulfill the conditions sanahtlig mentioned, I'll still be looking to help kick start it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Are you really reading this? He's pretty much saying they will try to uncensor censored parts of the plot. Granted, there might be some fragments of it left so it's not entirely wrong, but that's by Frontwing That basicly makes it not worth even backing if you can get a fuller expierence from the fan translated version since they dont wanna corrupt our western sensibilities ~rolls eyes~ Deep Blue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Are you really reading this? He's pretty much saying they will try to uncensor censored parts of the plot. Granted, there might be some fragments of it left so it's not entirely wrong, but that's done by Frontwing to begin with. Well they will try but that's not a certainty ... and this is not something that depends entirely on Sekai, if Front Wing doesn't want it they can't do it either, I will wait and see what sekai have to say about it, if they don't clarify anything at the beginning of the campaign that's an indirect no from them. That basicly makes it not worth even backing if you can get a fuller expierence from the fan translated version since they dont wanna corrupt our western sensibilities ~rolls eyes~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Well i dont like how they say a 18+ version will be released "Eventually" which is a unknown expanse of time, not to mention its stated the 18+ release would be handled by a third party koestlTranslator 11m @Cutiebunny Sorry, that's not what I meant to imply. The KS as a whole exists to cover project costs. Any pledge at any level helps it happen and would be appreciated. @Silvachief 18+ releases would not have any cut content. An official conversion patch is not a realistic option because of the way Frontwing wants this handled (entirely separate releases). It could also cause issues with Steam. The possibility of vouchers/discounts is definitely being considered. @flamedog The 18+ release details are not settled yet, but I will provide more information as soon as possible. I can say that these releases will be published by a "third party" rather than directly by Sekai Project. sanahtlig and Deep Blue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 The "third party" is just going to be a puppet company set up by Sekai Project. Front Wing wants them to release the 18+ version completely separately with no indication that the two are even linked. Makes me wonder how they'll pull off coupons/vouchers if that's the case. Hopefully it's not another thing they're promising without being 100% sure about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 koestlTranslator 6h Hi. We're sorry about the delay / separation of the 18+ versions, and we do understand why people would be upset. The 18+ games will come out if the trilogy is funded, and we're looking into options to provide some sort of credit for KS backers. Ideally, you will be able to back the trilogy on Kickstarter and then receive a discounted or free copy of the 18+ games when they're released. I can't make any promises about that, but it's something we want to do, and we will try to clarify prior to launching the kickstarter. Believe me, we have tried working around this issue, but the original rights-holders expressed a strong desire to maintain clear "separation" between the 18+ and M-rated products. With regards to "censorship," we have some leeway as localizers and may revert some textual changes made to the vita version where possible. And please keep in mind that a completely uncut 18+ edition will eventually be available, as long as the Kickstarter succeeds. Pretty sure they have no clue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyrt Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 This has turned into too much bad publicity and a clusterfuck of confusion and the really sad part of this is that had it released before Clannad we might not have had any issue whatsoever. You heard that right the kickstarter for Clannad is most likely responsible for this new direction. Hell Frontwing seems to be under the impression that Grisaia is just as popular as Clannad in the West which is simply absurd. For one the anime is rushed and mediocre (and only 12 episodes). Clannad on the other hand was two seasons of 24+1 episodes. People had more time with the characters from the Clannad anime than the Grisaia anime. If the Grisaia anime had not been rushed it's possible we could have seen it up there with clannad in popularity...but nope anime not too popular. Anime is also not over and anyone watching it just had the entire first vn essentially spoiled for them. The fact Frontwing waited until after Clannad was put up and then we didn't get a response until after it succeeded (admittedly it made it in 1 day) shows me that Frontwing was waiting for the results of Clannad to determine pricing and how they would go about things. The fact Clannad an all ages visual novel did so well with kickstarter probably immediately made them think we can make double the profits by having two separate versions...it worked for Clannad. However Clannad is on steam and Frontwing is unsure of what will be accepted in the West for a popular game so they have to edit the already changed vita version to appeal to as many potential new fans as possible...all while neglecting the older ones. The removal of 18+ content was already a huge blow to them and so bad that it probably would make the new goal of 160,000 almost impossible to make it. We vn fans like our pron and do not stand for censorship or cut products...not a huge issue if the original game was all ages...but it wasn't. However they did a number of things wrong about this...first the kickstarter doesn't really explain that it's the non 18+ version and you really have to read all of it to tell...anyone who signed up for notice should have been sent a notice explaining the changes. The lack of any confirmation via trustworthy from Frontwing sources that we would even get the 18+ version. The lack of saying whether or not an 18+ version would still have mosaics or other censoring. A timeline for the release after the all ages version. Explanation that people backing would not have to pay for a game twice. If I want one version I only want one version I don't want to have to pay for both and I won't. I was planning to buy both anyways to give one to a friend who dislikes pron but then the second biggest problem of this whole charade reared it's ugly head. The All-Ages version while it would have new content and be a vita port would also be censored. Not just for sexual images but also for content. Not just any content but very heavy plot specific content that defines an entire character. This was the nail in the coffin but since just burying it wasn't enough they decided to add insult to injury by making the All-Ages Cut/Censored version only available via digital media.. This entire scenario has gone absolutely horrible and we can in part blame the success of Clannad for Frontwing's new insanity...probably. Even if we can't we can all admit this is a clusterfuck of epic porportions as far as this visual novel goes. So what can Frontwing and Sekai Project do to fix this issue before the kickstarter destroys any chance they had? It's quite simple and based on other visual novels on Kickstarter quite easy to do...the only question is whether Frontwing will do it to save any chance of this happening. + Vita-Port no censored/cut content. No dialogue changes whatsoever from the original game. + Have the 18+ version as a backer Tier reward. (This has been done numerous times and does not seem to cause problems with kickstarter itself). If the games are 40 (120 for all 3) then have a tier for 60 (180 for all 3) which is unlimited in the amount of backers available and gives these backers the All-Ages version plus The Original PC version with all content included...they don't have to explain the content they can just say Original PC version. (Even if they wanted to say ecchi they easily could as the list of games listed below will show. This idea also does not mess with Frontwing's own strategy for separate releases. The game for kickstarter can be backed for the All-Ages title and a tier reward bonus can be given of the Original PC game (two separate games with a slight increase in cost per game in order to get 2 versions. Once the kickstarter succeeds only the backers get the 18+ version until Sekai Project sets up the 18+ version of their company...and thus the games are considered separate pieces. + Don't have the additional cost for the Original Game exceed 20-30 extra dollars for each game... + Do this ASAP + Have explanations for the kickstarter on various sites for people to understand the ruling. + Do not censor/edit/cut any content from any version. + Send notices to all prefundia people that requested emails explaining the new decision. +Talk to the fans and find out what they are upset about. - by making the Original PC version a tier reward for backers it actually puts Frontwing in the position that they have to supply it and is more or less confirmation that said version is going to be coming. Honestly this isn't a huge issue to fix. It's simply a matter of whether or not people will be willing to do it this way and if they can correct the problem before it gets out of hand. Just my suggestions. The games that have done similar things Sunrider, Swords of Asami (Edo), Huniepop, and Kendo Crush and a bunch of other games have said there is nothing being considered at the time but later into the kickstarter change their mind...just to name a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 As I stated above with evidence they're not sure they would be able to gauruntee vouchers or a free version of the 18+ it's just something they would like to do and secondly, as I stated with proof all they said about the 18+ version is that it would happen "Eventually" (which is a very very very vague timeframe) if the kickstarter for the all age version succeded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggle Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 As I stated above with evidence they're not sure they would be able to gauruntee vouchers or a free version of the 18+ it's just something they would like to do and secondly, as I stated with proof all they said about the 18+ version is that it would happen "Eventually" (which is a very very very vague timeframe) if the kickstarter for the all age version succeded. Koestl said it would be within a month or two actually, and the "company" thats gonna release the 18+ is denpasoft, its a Sekai Project side company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 oh? proof if you cant find it in writing its not tangible or true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Koestl said it would be within a month or two actually, and the "company" thats gonna release the 18+ is denpasoft, its a Sekai Project side company koestl @koestl Dec 7 @KinguArcher 1-month release delays compared to all-ages versions, last I heard. But I can't say for sure. So...most likely a 1 month delay, unless FW decides otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 the catch there is the "I cant say for sure" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 the catch there is the "I cant say for sure" Well, yeah, koestl is just the TL, he doesn't have any say in the business side of things, and can pretty much only tell people what Sekai and FW allow him to. That's all we have right now, since Sekai is quiet and FW isn't talking to us directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas. RinXD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrP Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Such a shame. One of the worst games to cut content from. There's important dialog in those scenes. Really hope this isn't cash grab on FrontWing's part. Was gonna back out of obligation, given I've already played it. Would hate to facilitate a butchered release of the sequels though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I personally dont think they're should be a all ages version of anything when it comes to Vn's. Like others have stated it seems like a cash grab ploy on front wings part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggle Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 Its rather common in Japan for games to get all ages ports, typically though those ports are usually on a console or a Handheld.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 But this is the West were talking about they dont release two call of duty's one age appropriate one not they release one with the option of turning graphic content off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggle Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 But this is the West were talking about they dont release two call of duty's one age appropriate one not they release one with the option of turning graphic content off Yes but we are talking about a Japanese title. So this type of thing happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyrt Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 shame I couldn't delete this... funny enough I'm now considering backing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakamutt Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 The newest reply: koestlTranslator 1h 1 @kyrt To be clear, Frontwing does not want an 18+ release directly associated with the Kickstarter, so at the moment we cannot offer them as tier rewards. The reason for this has less to do with "profit" than their cautious attitude towards releasing adult content in the West. There is a possibility backers will receive credit towards eventual uncut 18+ releases. We are trying to make this happen. The Vita edition of the games are M-rated and make relatively minor changes to non-sexual content, while adding new CGs and scenes. We do not plan to remove or "censor" content from the Vita game, and may restore some unnecessary textual changes where possible /// Apart from this I saw on #tlwiki that there are entire scenes in angelic howl that were cut in the jp all-ages version and it's very doubtful if SP will be able to restore them for their allages version. So yeah it's pretty shitty. It's actually about censorship in Amane's route #grisaiagate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nohman Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I personally dont think they're should be a all ages version of anything when it comes to Vn's. Like others have stated it seems like a cash grab ploy on front wings part. There are people out there who play them actually, a couple of which I can think of on this very forum. I personally don't have a fundamental issue with all-ages editions myself and don't see any valid reason to, given that we are also provided with the option of an 18+ full release. In fact, I'd say more options as a consumer is a good thing (admittedly, you can make an argument against this). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Such a shame. One of the worst games to cut content from. One might argue that cutting extreme content from a game noteworthy for its extreme content would be more contentious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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