Nyanko Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Welcome to what is known as the "Okami ruins another thread" syndrome. Best to just ignore it and continue what you are talking about before the thread is locked like all the others. Oh god I'm sorry, lol Well the moral discussion was a bit worth I guess, since this is what Saya no Uta is about. I like to read stories that make me think about things. Saya no Uta was the first VN I finished and is still one of my favorite VNs. I actually reread it recently and it still amazed me how strong the story is for such a short novel, even after reading so many other VNs. I would call it a unique VN and I would recommend it to anyone that enjoys VNs for their great stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I prefer to be an observer most of the time, but this post is too disturbing to ignore. Can you tell me what part of world you live in that being gay is worse than murder and rape? are you sure you're not spouting some random nonsense? And where the hell in this world that murder and rape is accepted by moral? Last but not least, i'm sorry if somehow i misunderstood your english is worse than my third grader cousin and i am doing best to comprehend it. I live in a Serbia and yes it's a fact that here being gay is considered far worse then being murder and rapist it's not nonsense. And I didn't say that murder and rape are considered moral in most contries but that being gay is. And my English isn't that bad. Welcome to what is known as the "Okami ruins another thread" syndrome. Best to just ignore it and continue what you are talking about before the thread is locked like all the others. Sorry for ruing a thread for expressing my opinion I didn't know that expressing an opinion that is different from yours is forbidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Back on topic, people. The thread will be locked if you talk about unrelated matters. H-scene wise, I don't think there's anything particularly unnerving. That level of rape is nothing, and what happens in the sex-slave scene is quite mild as well. It may be freakish to some people since they aren't used to it, though. About the game as a whole- I saw it as more of a tragedy than anything. It isn't scary or disturbing. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either you live in that crazy world with your beloved or you go back to your usual days without her. Either way you're losing something important, you just get to choose which of them do you value more. Saya is so moe, though~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xypers Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) :| Edited December 2, 2018 by Xypers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanadaShadow Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Saya No Uta was a personal favorite VN of mine. It helped me see things in a different perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vokoca Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It could be interesting to compare which ending was your favourite/most fitting for you? One of the VNs biggest strengths is how it offers more views and doesn't force them on you - the questions of morality are thrown at you, and based on their answers you get the ending that should be more comfortable for you. Which one was it? Personally, I've liked Fuminori's an Saya's ending the best. I've honestly rooted for both of them, no matter how harmful that might've been to the rest of humanity. Now, I've really liked Kouji's ending too, since it had that classic horror feeling, but as for my preferred conclusion, it's definitely the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanadaShadow Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Now, maybe this wasn't clear to me, but I think in Saya's ending all of humanity turned into Saya's kind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Now, maybe this wasn't clear to me, but I think in Saya's ending all of humanity turned into Saya's kind? Yes, she spreads some kind of spores or bacterias in the atmospere I beleive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanadaShadow Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Then, yeah, I think Saya's end was my favorite. It's sad that Saya dies giving birth though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Then, yeah, I think Saya's end was my favorite. It's sad that Saya dies giving birth though That wasn't very clear true, I believe that writer wanted to leave it to readers imagination if she really dies or not and that's why he didn't show what happens with Fuminori and Saya after. Also I think some spoiler buttons should be used here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanadaShadow Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 But, isn't this page for people who've already finished playing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 But, isn't this page for people who've already finished playing? It is, but tetchily thread say "Extended Thoughts and Questions" it doesn't say warning spoilers so someone might enter who hadn't read it yet in order to hear peoples thoughts and end up getting spoiled. As long as there is no [Warning spoilers] or something similar in a threads name you should use a spoiler button, at least for big spoilers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanadaShadow Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I see, thank you for informing me of this rule. Edit: Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It could be interesting to compare which ending was your favourite/most fitting for you? One of the VNs biggest strengths is how it offers more views and doesn't force them on you - the questions of morality are thrown at you, and based on their answers you get the ending that should be more comfortable for you. Which one was it? Hm.... Is there really a moral questioning in that ending? The "choice" you get is whether or not Ryôko manages to kill Saya or not. It's not like it was Fuminori choosing whether or not to wipe humanity. As a reader you're going to read both endings anyway, and acknowledge them both. Choosing which one you like better is up to you but they have the same narrative value. Basically (by this I also answer to the rest of the thread) I think that what Saya no Uta shows about morals is how it's dependent on common values. The whole "what is good or bad depends on the side you're on" has be done again and again, but there's not really good or bad here. What Urobuchi seems to think here is that morals are entirely dependent on things such as culture, life condition, environment in general - something which is debatable but definitely holds a part of truth. What happens to Fuminori is that he becomes someone with perceptions entirely different from those of his fellow humans. But since morals are, at least in part, based on common grounds on which we build "common sense", and he lost those shared values, regular morals don't apply to him anymore. Therefore, if there's moral to be found in that ending, it's the fact that Fuminori readily accepts to wipe out humanity, meaning his perceptions have become so much different he's no longer human (from a moral point of view). It's interestingly well done. But the problem is that, like most of what Urobuchi does, it's extremely hyperbolic (it could have been, in a more down-to-earth novel, culture shock for example rather than such a weird warp of perceptions) which makes identification (and thus moral questioning on yourself and not in general) quite hard (I don't have the choice of wiping out humanity everyday). Because no matter how, as a reader, we think we would act when placed in Fuminori's situation, first we're biased by the way the writer tells his story, and second we have no way to know what we would actually do in that situation. Of course, the fact that it's so hyperbolic is good too. There are elements that are here to disturb and shock (that was definitely the author's intention btw), and that does bring something to the visual novel, I wouldn't have it any other way. But yeah, in the end I don't think that last choice really is a choice, it's more a way of acknowledging two different outcomes. To answer your question, I like both equally. The first choice of the VN sounds more like a real choice. Again, you can't really project yourself efficiently in Fuminori because of how twisted the situation is, but it puts an emphasis on the choice that's being done (if you chose to come back to normal, the story end there, so we can consider that the other choice is the "real" one as far as the story is concerned) and thus brings weight to that turning point in the story. I don't think there's a question of moral in that choice either, though. It's a different kind of questioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vokoca Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It is, but tetchily thread say "Extended Thoughts and Questions" it doesn't say warning spoilers so someone might enter who hadn't read it yet in order to hear peoples thoughts and end up getting spoiled. As long as there is no [Warning spoilers] or something similar in a threads name you should use a spoiler button, at least for big spoilers. Lets be real now. This is a thread dedicated to discussing the visual novel - anyone in their right mind wouldn't click this if they haven't read it yet. If someone gets spoiled this way, it's their own fault. The substance of the VN was discussed here ever since the first post, I don't see why things should get spoiler tagged now. I don't think there's a question of moral in that choice either, though. It's a different kind of questioning. I've chosen my words poorly. The choice itself doesn't imply any moral differences, yes - what I was referring to was your outlook at its outcomes. You could argue that there is no good and bad in this story, but if we look at it purely subjectively, I think we could see either of the endings as good, or bad - which, of course, changes depending on which perspective we take. From Fuminori's point of view, the ending here Saya wins is "good", while the other isn't. What I wanted to ask is what side do you prefer, as in, what do you consider to be the "true" conclusion to the story, as it more or less lets you pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Lets be real now. This is a thread dedicated to discussing the visual novel - anyone in their right mind wouldn't click this if they haven't read it yet. If someone gets spoiled this way, it's their own fault. The substance of the VN was discussed here ever since the first post, I don't see why things should get spoiler tagged now. Because a thread name isn't obvious enough for people to know that there will be spoilers in here (well now it is). But at this rate we are just spaming here so let's get back on a topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanadaShadow Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 What is this, Hyper Ultra PTA? Also, there's spoilers in brackets on the title now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 It could be interesting to compare which ending was your favourite/most fitting for you? One of the VNs biggest strengths is how it offers more views and doesn't force them on you - the questions of morality are thrown at you, and based on their answers you get the ending that should be more comfortable for you. Which one was it? Well, as i have already stated, i do prefer the ending were kouji kills saya and fuminori commits suicide. To me it is a question of morality: no matter how much you love someone, are you willing to kill innocent people for them? the story tried to justify it further by making fuminori lose his sanity. But still, even then, he still new he was killing innocent people, and living with saya meant killing more. So, for me, no matter how insane reality is, no matter how deep your love is, its still no justification for killing (and eating) the innocent. which is why i preferred it when i saw fuminory kill himself with the axe; serves him right! I FELL LIKE I'M GOING TO GET SO FLAMED FOR THIS... Vokoca 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 What I wanted to ask is what side do you prefer, as in, what do you consider to be the "true" conclusion to the story, as it more or less lets you pick. As I said, I like both equally, but my attitude towards VN is that of a reader rather than a player. By which I mean, I don't consider I'm picking the "true" end according to my preferences. I'm just reading two alternatives, maybe I'll like one more than the other but it's not my decision to chose how the story ends, it's the author's one (because I don't have all the choices, it's just an illusion of choice since the two stories exist and are written). But that's just my philosophy of VNs, only one way to look at it. The fact that VNs offer you the possibility to construct your own story with bits and pieces the author threw in, according to what you as a reader want, is also interesting because it shows a very different way of approaching fiction than usual. Vokoca 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanadaShadow Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Well, as i have already stated, i do prefer the ending were kouji kills saya and fuminori commits suicide. To me it is a question of morality: no matter how much you love someone, are you willing to kill innocent people for them? the story tried to justify it further by making fuminori lose his sanity. But still, even then, he still new he was killing innocent people, and living with saya meant killing more. So, for me, no matter how insane reality is, no matter how deep your love is, its still no justification for killing (and eating) the innocent. which is why i preferred it when i saw fuminory kill himself with the axe; serves him right! I FELL LIKE I'M GOING TO GET SO FLAMED FOR THIS... Uh, yeah, no flaming, but... Saya pretty much only kills one person in the entire VN. The rest is all you. And Saya ends up turning all the world into her kind, so... Yeah. No more killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vokoca Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 And Saya ends up turning all the world into her kind, so... Yeah. No more killing. Which is pretty much murdering the entire population, isn't it? Everyone is going to look at this a little bit differently, which is why I think the VN is so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Uh, yeah, no flaming, but... Saya pretty much only kills one person in the entire VN. The rest is all you. And Saya ends up turning all the world into her kind, so... Yeah. No more killing. She just has entraills/bowels and human flesh in the fridge. No killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scars Unseen Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 She just has entraills/bowels and human flesh in the fridge. No killing. Maybe she found them like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vokoca Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 She just has entraills/bowels and human flesh in the fridge. No killing. Who doesn't? She just happens to eat people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Uh, yeah, no flaming, but... Saya pretty much only kills one person in the entire VN. The rest is all you. And Saya ends up turning all the world into her kind, so... Yeah. No more killing. dood, she freaking lives of the stuff. so i doubt that killing one human is going to keep you going for an entire lifetime. though fuminori does kill (because it tastes better than normal food to him), yet another excuse for cannibalism. All in all, this VN tried pretty hard to convince people that all these crimes were normal under the circumstances it presented; and judging from the posts here, i can say it succeeded quite strongly. But hey, at least I wasnt convinced that killing and eating humans, just for "the one you love" or some other excuse, was right. . not saying it's wrong or anything. eat whomever and whatever your heart desires for all i care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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