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Nayleen

(Front Site) Shall we provide links / torrents to original games + patches as well?

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I had this idea when someone was complaining about "lolprepatched" last week in IRC.

 

It'd be fairly easy to implement and would shut up all the guys who like to do the patching themselves.

 

The question is: Is this feature useful? Shall we host the games ourselves or just provide links? How about patches?

 

I'd like everyone's opinion on this.

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I feel like since the purpose of Fuwanovel is "to make visual novels popular in the west" having them prepatched in english only makes sense.

Not only that but installing patches can be a hassle and users may encounter issues when trying to do it themselves and it can lead to re-downloading the entire thing and wasting time. I don't want to see the technical issues board to be flooded.

 

I'm extremely grateful that Fuwanovel hosts their novels pre patched honestly so I don't think hosting them untranslated with the patch to install instead will be that much of a benefit.

Assuming that a great portion of the users doesn't understand Japanese well enough to read an entire novel it's only logical to have everything in english to save time and benefit everyone.

 

If the request for unstralated novels is that big then maybe providing a second link for the unstraslated version is a better idea? That's just my thought. As far as I'm concerned Fuwanovel has been dear to me for the fact that it has novels in english.

I don't know who these people are that complain they are pre patched, it's clearly the purpose of the site in the first place.

It's kind of like going into a forum about pokemon and complain that it talks about pokemon. It's pointless.

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I'll just say, I won't be hosting anything that isn't pre-patched. As far as I am concerned, pre-patched was Aaeru's vision, that's what I am backing.

 

Plenty of places that can get the original game.

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Seems like pointless extra work to me. If I want to dl a vn unpatched, I just go to nyaa or tpb (or, if life hates me, one of the DDL sites). Fuwanovel's haters aren't going to stop just because of something like this, and we shouldn't let them get to us anyway.

That said, if you do implement this, please don't host the patch files on fuwanovel unless the original group has stopped providing them. Throw up a link to the group providing the patch, so that in case of updated patch versions (one of the potential reasons not to use prepatched), manual patchers can get the newest.

Keep in mind it's practically guaranteed some silly guy will misclick and download the unpatched version accidentally, too.

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This is certainly a great question Nayleen.  Personally, I think that Aaeru would simply have turned this thread down.  Her vision was to provide quick, simple access to a plethora of games.  Hosting or linking to anything else is just unnecessary.  Those who care so much about .ISO should just lookup the game and they'll instantly find it 90% of the time.

 

It's a great thought Nayleen, but I can't imagine why it's necessary. 

 

Still "wubbing" the thought behind it though, that's considerate of you :wub: ,

~Naomi~

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I think we should keep the games pre-patched. This "issue" has been brought up multiple times in the past. I have always stood by keeping it as it is. It is more work, but the original vision of Fuwanovel is to bring more VN's to the west. There are numerous problems to getting this done. One of them is ease of use, by having the games pre-patched it makes it easier for newer people.

Besides the pre-patched games we got: A good website which doesn't look like a nukige heaven like mangagamer. We got good torrents, FAQ how to get the game working, a very nice community.

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Someone who is saying "lolprepatched" is no valuable feedback at all - most people are happy the way it is and to tell you the truth even I was lazy this time and waited for ShiniKiss prepatched because I just didn't want to go through the patching process, however easy it might be.

If this person is complaining about it, he already knows how to get his non-prepatched VNs and is just most likely mocking Fuwanovel so listening to such feedback is pointless in my opinion.

It worked as prepatched the whole time just fine as it is the greatest way for new players who just want to have their first VN easy and not a hassle going through some patches.

 

And lastly, link to the patch is already provided inside the link to the translation group's website where you can easily get the patch if you want to try some manual patching or something (or check if there is new version of patch that isn't updated in the fuwanovel release or something).

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i think that it is a wonder full idea but question is if it's worth the work that may need to put in to make it happen like something so that poeple don't missklick the links and stuff 

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Sometimes it's nice to have a unpatched version of a game, but you can get those elsewhere. The thing about Fuwanovel is it offers a convenient collection of games all in one place that is easy to just download and play.

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I've seen people make threads before complaining about problems they get and I've experienced them firsthand too. Sometimes the only torrent i find that has seeds are from fuwanovel so there's no choice. ShiniKiss is a recent example of this. The fuwanovel torrent is the only seeded one on nyaa. And the problems people experience also brings down fuwanovel's credibility. I'm a regular on /r/visualnovels on reddit and the majority of the people there advice against downloading from here. I have to agree with them sometimes

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I get your point, but I fear us being the only source is a lack on the part of others to have not put up source material, rather than being the cause of being the only seeded one. Thanks for your input though.

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Evaluating how much work this would be should be my responsibility; This would be a very simple change. We don't need to host anything ourself, just link to it and of course it wouldn't replace the main torrents, it'd be more like an additional troubleshooting bullet point or links below the torrent box.

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I don't see any particular reason against it if that's the case.

I still don't think it's that much of a benefit to the site though. Like it was mentioned before Aeru's vision was a site with english translated novels, it kind of feels like doing this will astray from that

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The risk you are running into with this is that the torrents on nyaa go dead and such or are not seeded and people would start topics in the troubleshooting section asking for seeding and also reupload of patches if the translator's site goes down etc, reporting problems that their game is not English because they clicked wrong button (and you can make it crystal clear that it is the non-translated version and they will still click it thinking its English) - I currently do support for living so I know this very well, easiest way is to just leave a single button that will bring English version and nothing else, because if you give people the choice, some of them will choose the wrong one and then complain.

 

It is unnecessary and would only bring more trouble than benefits.

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I think the benefits are greater than you guys are making them out to be. A lot of people think fuwanovel and Aaeru are cancerous to the VN community and one of those reasons is because of the problems some encounter when trying to play a prepatched VN. It doesn't take a genius to find out how to install a program in another language. There's an (N) button for next and (B ) for back in most JP VN's I've installed.

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It's not always that simple. I can imagine more issues with forcing people to install patches themselves than having it prepatched.

I've already downloaded around 20 VNs from Fuwanovel and i've recommended the site to friends and neither I nor them have had any issue whatsoever. Issues with prepatched VNs happen there too so that argument is not valid here. A lot of times it's the person's system's fault rather than the VN itself.

If people just believe in whatever they are told without checking for themselves then they are more narrow minded than I thought.

I still stand that this measure won't really have any real benefit to the site. If the untranslated torrents already exist and we're just linking to them, what's the difference in using Fuwanovel or searching directly on another place? It's not really worth it in my point of view.

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It's not always that simple. I can imagine more issues with forcing people to install patches themselves than having it prepatched.

I've already downloaded around 20 VNs from Fuwanovel and i've recommended the site to friends and neither I nor them have had any issue whatsoever. Issues with prepatched VNs happen there too so that argument is not valid here. A lot of times it's the person's system's fault rather than the VN itself.

If people just believe in whatever they are told without checking for themselves then they are more narrow minded than I thought.

I still stand that this measure won't really have any real benefit to the site. If the untranslated torrents already exist and we're just linking to them, what's the difference in using Fuwanovel or searching directly?

 

Not all prepatched. Only one I can think of is Boku no Shokora.

>neither I nor them have had any issue whatsoever.

 

Doesn't mean these problems don't exist. I've seen plenty of threads on over at /r/visualnovels about people asking for help because the VNs they got from here don't work right.

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I've seen people make threads before complaining about problems they get and I've experienced them firsthand too. Sometimes the only torrent i find that has seeds are from fuwanovel so there's no choice. ShiniKiss is a recent example of this. The fuwanovel torrent is the only seeded one on nyaa. And the problems people experience also brings down fuwanovel's credibility. I'm a regular on /r/visualnovels on reddit and the majority of the people there advice against downloading from here. I have to agree with them sometimes.

There was a ton of seeds for non-fuwanovel shinikiss on nyaa. 20 minutes to download. Just saying.

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There was a ton of seeds for non-fuwanovel shinikiss on nyaa. 20 minutes to download. Just saying.

 

I typed the name in Romaji and 死神の接吻は別離の味 when the patch came out and I could have sworn that only the fuwanovel one had seeds.

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We have the technical issues board for whoever has problems.

What those people are doing is simply asking someone outside the site for help.

I'm almost sure that in a lot of those cases the problem is unrelated to the novel itself and they'd encounter the same problem or other problem if they tried installing the patch. We have instructions to follow in order to make the game work, it's never failed me as long as i follow it strictly. Installing patches is the exact same you have to follow a designated number of steps in order to install it correctly.

I'm not saying problems don't exist, I'm well aware they do, but if you're going to blame everything on external factors instead of trying to pinpoint issues it just leads to a wave of bad impressions.  Both prepatched and non prepatched WILL have issues for some users.

Again it has issues with installing patches as well, just look at the comment section in every VN and there's people saying they can't play it. This is not a Fuwanovel exclusive problem. Anywhere at some point someone will encounter a problem. These people are just trying to find a source for it and decided that prepatched is worse and so bashing Fuwanovel is the solution (Flawless logic).

If you can convince people that this is a good site and explain that these issues can be solved i think it'smore of a benefit rather than just linking to untranslated novels and patches for them to install. 

And wether you do convince people or not there will ALWAYS be trolls and haters. This can not be changed.

I see Fuwanovel as an amazing starting point to get into VN reading for people who don't understand Japanese that's why i see this is as not extremely useful.

Not saying we can't have the links, again, I just don't see any benefit to it to the main site.

This is my final opinion.

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So it's a matter of whether or not we should also host the games separate to the patches in addition to prepatched versions?

 

If that's the case, I've got mixed feelings for it.  As people have stated, Fuwanovel was made by Aaeru for western-localization of visual novels, that means in English, which the pre-patched version entails, it's an immediate shot into the game in English, most of the time without having to install the game also (which is GREAT).  If people say they are having issues with the pre-patched version, there's a reason why we have a technical difficulties forum, it is there to help.  

 

But for the side that says I'm for it, I lean towards this side with the same thought I have towards options in video games, "more options, always better."  I LOVE having even one additional option available to me, whether it is because of technical difficulties, or whatever other reason you might think of, it's just always nice to have that one little extra thing.

 

The only real good way I can see the usage of this (at least in the future), is to host the .iso (or the game's equivalent) files before a patch is released, that way people can download the game and when the patch is released patch it themselves quickly without having to wait for the pre-patched.  However, if that option takes place I think there should also at least be a "patching guide" added when the patch itself is released, that way people don't get too confused as to how to patch it themselves.

 

And just to comment on the whole "lolprepatched" crap.  Don't give into the bullshit that comes from the internet; what matters is how the community feels about it, not one person who doesn't understand basic human communication.

 

There's my two cents.

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Have you people been outside of fuwanovel? A lot of the VN community hates fuwanovel and Aaeru with a passion. I'd figured you guys would  know this since you're regulars here. And, like I stated, one of the reasons is because of the prepatched VNs. Most TL groups are not ok with having their patches used like this and a lot of people have problems with them too. And not everyone visits the forums.

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Because most of them are elitist pricks who'd rather their favorite niché wank-material stay that way. Pre-patched opens the medium up to new people, which is exactly why they're scared shitless, freaking hipsters. Most problems with the games stem from the user, not the pre-patched game.

 

Most TL groups are not ok with having their patches used like this and a lot of people have problems with them too.

I am not going to comment on that hypocrisy for the billionth time.

 

People keep hating on the site because of Aaeru's past and Aaeru's early torrents packing political propaganda, when Aaeru has tried hard to make amends in most of that regard and her ideas regarding copyright might be delusional, but still great food for thought. Copyright in its contemporary state is broken. Our torrents don't feature political bullshit videos any more. This site has turned its focus to the games, not being an idea platform.

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Because most of them are elitist pricks who'd rather their favorite niché wank-material stay that way. Pre-patched opens the medium up to new people, which is exactly why they're scared shitless, freaking hipsters. Most problems with the games stem from the user, not the pre-patched game.

 

I am not going to comment on that hypocrisy for the billionth time.

 

People keep hating on the site because of Aaeru's past and Aaeru's early torrents packing political propaganda, when Aaeru has tried hard to make amends in most of that regard and her ideas regarding copyright might be delusional, but still great food for thought. Copyright in its contemporary state is broken. Our torrents don't feature political bullshit videos any more. This site has turned its focus to the games, not being an idea platform.

 

Not going to argue on the first part. A lot of them are neckbeards who think they're better because they know Japanese.

 

>Most problems with the games stem from the user, not the pre-patched game.

 

Isn't the point of fuwanovel to make access to VNs easier? Why not make it easier for the user when they come across problems by making a little tutorial explaning how to install the VN and the patch instead of making them prepatched?  I'm not hating on fuwanovel but to place the blame on the user while those same users are the target demographic is baffling.

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