How are most VN sequels like?

[starlessn1ght]

The only sequel I've played so far is S;G Octet, but, you know...

 

I was wondering, due to the structure of VNs, how are most sequels made. Do they, like, pick up where each route left and get you to choose the route from the beginning? Or do they follow the generic bad end and do the routes all over again, but in a different way?

 

I know there are lots of VNs that have sequels... There are ones, like Pia Carrot, that have like, 3 sequels... I'm just curious to know how they work...

[Clephas]

Most VN 'sequels' aren't sequels at all... they are what is called a 'fandisc'.  It usually contains after-stories and/or extra h-scenes, as well as possibly containing a route for a sub-heroine who won a character poll or two.  Grisaia and Akagoei both used a system where they combined aspects of all the routes from the original and continuing through a second game that serves as a bridge with a combination of after-stories and a main path that serves as a prologue or background for the third game. 

[Zenophilious]

I can't find it, but I remember asking a similar question a while back.  Kinda depends on the VN, I think.  If I remember what I was told about Meikyuu correctly (which isn't 100% guaranteed, I'm not gonna lie), it lets you directly continue the storyline from the routes of Kajitsu, as well as play a version where the major events of every route in Kajitsu happened, except that Yuuji didn't enter a relationship with any of them but still solved all of their issues.

 

I don't know that much about a lot of sequels, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.  You'd do better waiting for an answer from someone that can read Japanese, as the odds of them reading sequels is a lot higher than people like me that have to wait for translations before they can read anything.

[Zodai]

Most sequel-type stuff is either fandiscs, such as F/HA or Harvest Festa, or continuations along the lines of Umineko's separate episodes.

 

Aside from the unfortunately all too common 'sequels for money' route, a story can be considered 'complete' when all of the conflicts contained within have been resolved.  Therefore, sequels are used, at their best, to resolve conflicts not done so in the first, otherwise the story is incomplete.  Fandisc-wise F/HA would be a great example, giving us the fandisc-important stuff such as more time with the characters while similarly filling in holes in character backgrounds and giving us a reasonable plot.

 

As for the route problem, this is something that I don't think has a set solution, but going from that a good idea would be to note that each route has its own promises, and then the promises of the story as a whole.  Maybe pick one route as 'canon' and make promises elaborating on it (Clannad After Story) or pick a generic starting point where things haven't been concluded route-wise (Grisaia, at least I think so.)  Then you think about what story-wide promises haven't been fulfilled yet, and focus there.

[the_dive]

I guess it depends. There are fandiscs and then there are sequels. Fan discs usually consist of loads of h-scenes for each original heroine and a route for heroines that didn't have one in the original. If you're lucky, some fan discs contain actual plot, like Sharin no Kuni's. IMHHW's fandisc is also pretty good IMO.

 

As for a sequel, well I guess it depends on the developer. I know that Da Capo II is set like 50 years after the original story .  

[starlessn1ght]

When I was talking about sequels, I meant 'real sequels', that aren't fandiscs. I know what fandiscs are...

[Zenophilious]

If you're lucky, some fan discs contain actual plot, like Sharin no Kuni's.

That's...kinda accurate, but also not.  There's one route in there that can be considered to have actual plot, and the rest is just really, really, really bad h-scene fanservice.  I wouldn't tout it as a fandisc done right, because almost all of it was done pretty badly.

 

Majikoi S is kinda fandisk-y, even though it's technically a sequel.  It's mostly just about Yamato and whatever girl he dates as a couple, with a bunch of side characters getting routes with a ton of h in them.

[Deep Blue]

narcissu 2 was actually pretty good even if it was a prequel to narcissu 1

[the_dive]

That's...kinda accurate, but also not.  There's one route in there that can be considered to have actual plot, and the rest is just really, really, really bad h-scene fanservice.  I wouldn't tout it as a fandisc done right, because almost all of it was done pretty badly.

 

Majikoi S is kinda fandisk-y, even though it's technically a sequel.  It's mostly just about Yamato and whatever girl he dates as a couple, with a bunch of side characters getting routes with a ton of h in them.

 

Yeah you're right. I guess I just rubbed the rest of the fandisc out of my mind besides the one route. 

 

And yeah, Majikoi S is technically a sequel, but zero substance in most of the routes.  Actually like the Majikoi A series better cause it's less H more plot for most of the routes. 

[starlessn1ght]

 

And yeah, Majikoi S is technically a sequel, but zero substance in most of the routes.  

 

Isn't Majikoi by definition a project with no substance, like a bakage? All I see it's people praising it for the comedy...

[Zenophilious]

lol  Just because it's mainly focused on comedy doesn't mean it's for idiots.  You may not like comedy, but that doesn't mean that anything with a focus on comedy is inherently shit.

[starlessn1ght]

lol  Just because it's mainly focused on comedy doesn't mean it's for idiots.  You may not like comedy, but that doesn't mean that anything with a focus on comedy is inherently shit.

 

Bakage doesn't mean it's for idiots. But anyway, I didn't say it was shit, I just said that since it was focused on comedy, there was no real 'content' to take out of it...

[mjriedstra]

Isn't Majikoi by definition a project with no substance, like a bakage? All I see it's people praising it for the comedy...

 

Kazuko's route isn't anything like that. It tackles a more serious issue than most games, in a very realistic way considering the setting, and doesn't end with the usual" shounen power--up overcoming all adversity for no plausible reason."

 

As for sequels, my perception is that previously, there was a strong trend to make a "sequel" only in the sense that a game kept the title and adds a "2" or "3" but had all new characters and very little relation to previous versions. See Canvas, To Heart, Da Capo, etc.

 

Lately, there's started to be a shift toward "episodic releases," which you could call true sequels in that they pick up directly where other chapters left off. World End Economica, Rose Guns Days, Sunrider. But you could also say that these are actually just games broken up into parts to be sold more than once. Old games like Fate/Stay Night and Clannad are so large that they almost certainly would be broken down and sold as individual routes or packages of routes like Majikoi A if they were to be created from scratch today.

[Clephas]

You'll notice that episodic releases are usually limited to indie or doujin games, though.  Commercial games that try that tend to fail.

[Zodai]

Lately, there's started to be a shift toward "episodic releases," which you could call true sequels in that they pick up directly where other chapters left off. World End Economica, Rose Guns Days, Sunrider. But you could also say that these are actually just games broken up into parts to be sold more than once. Old games like Fate/Stay Night and Clannad are so large that they almost certainly would be broken down and sold as individual routes or packages of routes like Majikoi A if they were to be created from scratch today.

 

This is most absolutely a production thing rather than a money-grabbing thing.  Smaller dev teams don't have the resources to go off and create something F/SN or Clannad in scale, so they release them in pieces out of necessity - there isn't enough available in the tank to release it after it's 'completely' finished because they'll run dry before everything has been resolved.

 

It's a far different beast than simply that they want to sell the same game repeatedly.

[Zenophilious]

Bakage doesn't mean it's for idiots. But anyway, I didn't say it was shit, I just said that since it was focused on comedy, there was no real 'content' to take out of it...

Well, then, my mistake.  I've never heard that term before, and google provided absolutely nothing, so I guessed and failed.  Would you be so kind to describe its actual meaning to me, then?

 

There are plenty of comedy-focused movies and books that have deeper meanings that just witty dialogue and a few cheap laughs.  Again, if you don't like comedy, just say, "I don't like comedy," instead of saying, "Comedy is devoid of anything meaningful."

[Clephas]

'Bakage' is a new one...

[Deep Blue]

by common sense bakage should mean something with a stupid plot/stupid characters or that stupidity has prominence in the story or something like that, so I don't think your interpretation was inaccurate Zeno

 

EDIT:

 

Bakage is commonly used for games with ridiculous elements.

kusoge is a game that has a terrible feature or features.

 

http://retrojrpg.thefannish.org/?p=551

 

O.o

[Clephas]

Baka moe Heart was like that... but that's just straight-out comedy.

[storyteller]

You'll notice that episodic releases are usually limited to indie or doujin games, though.  Commercial games that try that tend to fail.

Yeah, don't really see much of those around, do we?

I think Clockwork Leyline was somewhat successful this way?

[AlexZandria]

Well, then, my mistake.  I've never heard that term before, and google provided absolutely nothing, so I guessed and failed.  

 

I don't know any Japanese really but looking at the word Bakage it looks like any other "genre" of Japanese game. Charage, Moege, Nakige, Nukige, Utsuge, Otomege, etc. And of course anybody who knows anything about Japanese characters should recognize "baka" from the famous Tsundere phrases. So it looks like "Stupid game" to me without using Google to figure it out.

 

 

...On the other hand I'm reading LB! and I could have sworn Rin called Mastako (if that's how I even spell his name) Bakage instead of Baka at one point. It's what I heard from the VO though so I might have just misheard it. Anyway I normally just assume that a vowel + ge at the end of the word means "game" of some sort unless I have reason to think otherwise.

[sanahtlig]

The Ikusa Megami series from Eushully is an example of a "true" series that follows a continuing story.  The unique element is that the hero Celica is immortal, with each game often featuring a completely new time period and region, along with a new set of heroines and support characters.  Still, it's the sort of series you don't want to jump into at just any point; Ikusa Megami Zero is the agreed-upon entry point that everyone agrees one should start with.  It also happens to be the best game in the series.

[Clephas]

Yeah, don't really see much of those around, do we?

I think Clockwork Leyline was somewhat successful this way?

Leyline was presented as a trilogy of three separate VNs... each technically an arc of the story with actual endings included. 

[Deep Blue]

weird nobody mentioned muv luv, alternative it's the best sequel out there probably

[Clephas]

Alternative is a case of 下克上.  It makes the original look like crap.