Shoutbox on Main Forum

[Guest]

You are confusing chatbox and shitbox.

The game should be to push the spam outside, not moving it.

 

Spamming isn't fun and games, you can have fun and make friends without spamming. Spamming is nothing but annoying, be it on a chat or on a forum.

[Eclipsed]

Shoutbox philosophies aside, we have a 76.31% neutral-to-positive consensus regarding this implementation (39.47% yes + 36.84% neutral). To the 23.68% who outright oppose, you will be able to HIDE this feature.

 

The ones opposing this are being a bit selfish imo.

 

Taking Zaka's quote from my Like Counter thread (and rephrasing it ) "I personally despise this feature, therefore you shouldn't implement it for the people who want it! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"

 

Again, you can hide it if you hate it, so what's the problem?

[Guest]

What's the point of a vote if you aren't being selfish ?

[Eclipsed]

Well if you can come up with better reasons than "i dont like it" (just hide it then) or "i like it being hidden" (uhh no, the goal here is to make it more accessible for everybody registered users)

Anyways, Tay already said he'd give the greenlight if Nay gave the greenlight so *sips tea*

[TheFantasm]

I've been on multiple forums where a shoutbox was a thing, and I can't really remember any issues that sprung up because of it. Main reason being that those communities were mature, and smart enough to not spam it, and instead held fun discussions there that everyone could participate in. I don't see this being an issue, as long as people don't act like 12-year olds.

[Mr Poltroon]

For a feature being a click away from being used and which has 2 pretty obvious links on the front page I don't feel it's the most private thing ever and the people who would have wanted to join a conversation could have easily done so.

I highly encourage people to join the chat, but I don't want them to be forced to, as I believe that people how make the effort to click to talk to people have much more to say that those who wait for it to be under their cursor.

 

I'm only giving my opinion given this is a poll. My vote is a repercution of how I want it to be. And as a regular user of this chat, I like it the way it is.

I question your definition of obvious, as it seems to be in line with my "Hidden amongst the rest of the hundreds of hyperlinks." Your click is also a page away, you forgot to mention.

 

This is where the main difference lies from your point of view to some other people's. You complained the other day how I don't say anything useful or serious in the shoutbox. You seem to be under the impression that place is meant for useful and meaningful real time conversation. Truly, it isn't - but we manage to make it so by hiding it away.

 

Also, note how you claim putting something on the front page means forcing someone to use it. By that logic I would have already used all those links and blog stuff and other nonsense.

 

 

I agree with maef and have been saying this from the start. The people who want to use it are already doing so. We have two links which direct to the chat box. It's going to be far more annoying to users if it's stuck on the main page where it shouldn't be.

 

I don't know why you quote "accessibility " all the time when the people who want to use it will be the ones who already do so. If you're really lazy to open the page to the chatbox you wouldn't want to use it anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 "you shouldn't even notice its presence since it's buried at the bottom."

 

Haven't you just been complaining people are not using it because they can't see it. Where here you're stating it's going to be buried at the bottom? I don't get you... If you want to make people use it and see it you're going to have to stick it in the awful sidebar.

 

Does it hurt you so much, having to close the shoutbox? Ideally it will be hidden by default, for the sake of mobile devices or lackluster internet. 

On a rate of 1 to 10, please rate your annoyance at having that extra thing on the bottom you'll likely not even notice once hidden. 

On a rate of 1 to 10, please rate your annoyance at having to click a button and hide it.

 

That is a good point, assuming people actually knew of the chat's existence. Oh, and did you notice? Many a times have members attempted to use the chat, however, given its severely limited current user base their comments went unanswered, and consequently, they went away and never came back, since the chat is "dead".

 

I am pretty sure Eclipsed presented an example right in the main post.

http://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/10390-shoutbox-on-main-forum/#entry290393

 

You are confusing chatbox and shitbox.

The game should be to push the spam outside, not moving it.

 

Spamming isn't fun and games, you can have fun and make friends without spamming. Spamming is nothing but annoying, be it on a chat or on a forum.

I agree to an extent.  I don't agree we should aim to have all the spam directed there, though I agree its content isn't mean to be detailed analyses of Visual Novels (hyperbole sign)

 

What's the point of a vote if you aren't being selfish ?

To show how objectively inferior your opinion is, obviously. 

To figure out which is the group with the biggest amount of selfish members, I'd say.

[Guest]

@Eclipsed :

Accessible ... one click isn't accessible it seems. And you make a poll expecting people not to voice there opinions ? What do you expect ?

 

If you aren't even going to take in account what people want or think, don't make such a thread, go see the admin directly and make the change.

 

As it is now it's not going in favor of my liking, so I'm free to say why I'd prefer as a member to keep it where it is be it selfish or not. The people who implement the feature are free to take that into account or not.

[Guest]

 

 

I question your definition of obvious, as it seems to be in line with my "Hidden amongst the rest of the hundreds of hyperlinks." Your click is also a page away, you forgot to mention.

These buttons appear to be particularily obvious seeing they are part of a quick link menu and the left side menu as well. So hidden may not be the best adjective in this situation.

 

This is where the main difference lies from your point of view to some other people's. You complained the other day how I don't say anything useful or serious in the shoutbox. You seem to be under the impression that place is meant for useful and meaningful real time conversation. Truly, it isn't - but we manage to make it so by hiding it away.

Yes you annoy me, but that's personnal and has nothing to do with the chat or meaningful conversation.

 

Also, note how you claim putting something on the front page means forcing someone to use it. By that logic I would have already used all those links and blog stuff and other nonsense.

Forcing was a problematic term it seems. First there's a difference between a feature such as a chat which is easy and quick to use on which any random member could drop and a link on a forum. I suggest learning logic. Second, the idea is that there's a difference between people who have nothing to say but will say it because they can, and those who have something to say and will because they can. And that difference is one click. If you can not understand, I can't do anything for you.

 

 

I agree to an extent.  I don't agree we should aim to have all the spam directed there, though I agree its content isn't mean to be detailed analyses of Visual Novels (hyperbole sign)

Never have I said that, but I'm glad it is possible as opposed to many other chats.

 

To show how objectively inferior your opinion is, obviously. 

To figure out which is the group with the biggest amount of selfish members, I'd say.

If one is not defending his own opinion in a vote, I'm sorry to say that he is a sheep.

[Mr Poltroon]

I question your definition of obvious, as it seems to be in line with my "Hidden amongst the rest of the hundreds of hyperlinks." Your click is also a page away, you forgot to mention.

These buttons appear to be particularily obvious seeing they are part of a quick link menu and the left side menu as well. So hidden may not be the best adjective in this situation.

The best place to hide a tree is among the trees, did you know?

 

This is where the main difference lies from your point of view to some other people's. You complained the other day how I don't say anything useful or serious in the shoutbox. You seem to be under the impression that place is meant for useful and meaningful real time conversation. Truly, it isn't - but we manage to make it so by hiding it away.

Yes you annoy me, but that's personnal and has nothing to do with the chat or meaningful conversation.

Please do not miss the point, that being you shouldn't expect meaningful conversations from Fuwachat.

 

Also, note how you claim putting something on the front page means forcing someone to use it. By that logic I would have already used all those links and blog stuff and other nonsense.

Forcing was a problematic term it seems. First there's a difference between a feature such as a chat which is easy and quick to use on which any random member could drop and a link on a forum. I suggest learning logic.

Can I suggest learning English? (Provocative statement in reply to provocative statement) "there's a difference between a feature such as a chat which is easy and quick to use on which any random member could drop and a link on a forum." There's a difference between this and... what?

 

Second, the idea is that there's a difference between people who have nothing to say but will say it because they can, and those who have something to say and will because they can. And that difference is one click. If you can not understand, I can't do anything for you.

I understand your point here, actually. Given how I am personally a fan of talking when I have nothing to say, I can't personally agree with you, but I understand your point.

 

I agree to an extent.  I don't agree we should aim to have all the spam directed there, though I agree its content isn't mean to be detailed analyses of Visual Novels (hyperbole sign)

Never have I said that, but I'm glad it is possible as opposed to many other chats.

Nor did I say you did. I'm just agreeing with you, excuse me.   

 

To show how objectively inferior your opinion is, obviously. 

To figure out which is the group with the biggest amount of selfish members, I'd say.

If one is not defending his own opinion in a vote, I'm sorry to say that he is a sheep.

Or maybe they don't care enough. Who knows?

[Eclipsed]

Let's take a step back from the selfish thing, that was poorly worded on my part.

 

Here's what I'm hearing from the opposition: "Making the shoutbox on the main forums is a bad idea for ME, because I don't like it." (again, just hide it then??)

 

I'm not hearing any reasons for why it's bad for the community.

[Mr Poltroon]

I'm not hearing any reasons for why it's bad for the community.

[Eclipsed]

Y-you're confusing me Taiga

[Mr Poltroon]

Y-you're confusing me Taiga

Not sure how to word it differently.

Right now, the Shoutbox has a certain atmosphere and conversation topics and flow because there's a limited number of members right now which only go there because they enjoy it.

 

If it's put on the front of the forums, then anyone can join in any moment with spam, random comments, derrail and it will generally completely break the existing flow. People would make use of the shoutbox because it's easy and right there, not necessarily because they like the small community and meaningful conversations which take place.

[Guest]

I'm not hearing any reasons for why it's bad for the community.

 

I'm not hearing any good reason for why this is good either.

And as one of the few who actually tried and somehow succesfully kept it alive for the time it was implemented, I'm free to share my disaproval of the idea.

 

And Tiago suprisingly got the point here. Nice job TiagofVarela.

[Eclipsed]

I'm not hearing any good reason for why this is good either.

And as one of the few who actually tried and somehow succesfully kept it alive for the time it was implemented, I'm free to share my disaproval of the idea.

 

And Tiago suprisingly got the point here. Nice job TiagofVarela.

 

Reasons for:

In-general the shoutbox's implementation is such that it's a bit out of the way to get to at the moment.  Putting it at the front means it'll be right there for anyone who scrolls to the bottom, and can probably jump onto the conversation on a moment's notice.  It's going to boost activity by quite a bit from what I can tell.

 

 

I think it would be a good idea. It'd probably bring the more shy members of Fuwa to the shoutbox. (Like me for instance.)

 

 

As long as there's an option to minimise, imo it's a good idea and worth a try. Sometimes I think Tay put the Fuwachat where he did just to troll people

 

"Yes I'll give you your beloved chat program. Please proceed past the treacherous and trap-infested tunnels, through the chambers filled with poisonous gas, down The-Hidden-Staircase-of-Balthazar ...:"

 

It's a pain to use and it will probably die where it is, but it was brought in for a specific purpose. Which it's not really achieving in such an out-of-the-way place. But I recognise it's probably well down on the "Things to decide on" list.

 

 

I think this is a good idea, and could actually help cut down on forum spam.  Who knows, the Coliseum of Chatter might suddenly become a barren wasteland after this.  Whether you like chatter or don't like spam, I see no reason not to support this.

 

 

I think what's in question here is the reason people are not using it is because it's hidden in a different place that you have to reload your page to get into instead of just being instantly available the moment you load the main page, thus if we reversed this more people would use it.

 

I'm completely neutral since it doesn't affect me either way but I find most arguments here to lack much validity other than "I don't really like it", instead of addressing possible negative effects other than sidebar cluttering, despite the fact that it can be put at the bottom of the forum in a proper place that blends in with the layout so it doesn't look that weird when hidden, thus not bothering anybody that doesn't like it.

 

I dunno, I feel the resistence to this change rather silly, if it doesn't overload the servers there's little to no reason not to have it on the main page as the main purpose of Fuwachat should always be for members of Fuwa to communicate with each other, a goal that would benefit from this change.

 

 

Reasons against

I like the small privacy that this chat offers and the low but consistent influx of regular users and discussions.

There was some interesting real time talk in there and I personnally don't want it to become too spammy or messy.

So, that's a no for me.

 

The Shoutbox is the first place I visit when I log in, it's a habit, and I like it that way.

Basically you want the shoutbox for yourself and not the community it was intended..?

 

Not including Emi & Lewys because all of their cluttering concerns is solved via being able to hide the shoutbox.

[Guest]

Note the good in good reasons.

[Kimossab]

You still at it? Seriously... We can't please everyone. The voting was done and there's more yes than no and neutral. We can always experiment.

 

If it goes wrong we can always return to what it was. If the problem is the atmosphere like tiago mentioned, then if the server allows it's possible to have 2 different chatboxes, 1 in the main forums and another "hidden" as it is right now (not that it would be good but whatever)
 

The main problem is exactly what tiago mentioned ut even that is not good enough to reject it. It's true that some people wil enjoy it and others will no longer enjoy it. The "atmosphere" of the chat will change but only time and experiments can say how.

@eclipsed I consider what tiago said as a good reason against (which is what I mention here but in a stupid way as usual, he explained it better)

[Nosebleed]

Experiment first, talk results later, adjust if needed.

Hypothesis can not be refuted without any tangible data. That is the scientific method.

 

I think all hypothesis have been exhausted and dragged out at this point, and with a majority voting yes and this implementation already about to take place, it's futile to continue further back and forth discussion before we actually have this implemented, so I really suggest people hold their breaths for a bit at this point and just wait to see.

[Tay]

And so, Eclipsed has just started the 4th Great Fuwapocalypse.

Nope, nope, nope. Whole project is cancelled due to this one comment:

• There have been exactly 11 FuwApocalypses
• If you want to focus on "big" or "Great" FuwApocalypses, tho, there have been 5
• So.... wrong. Everything is wrong. Eclipsed is permabanned and this project is dead.

 

---

 

Okay, so, all that aside... I think this thread is a good example of why we did away with decisions by committee. The poll was to gauge the vox populi, and, quite honestly, giving this a go isn't going to hurt anyone or anything. After all, the worst case scenario is that the site goes into meltdown, we lose all backups, and Fuwa burns slowly to the ground. That's it!

 

Let's give it a shot. If it doesn't bring about a good change (increased use, or positive use), we'll banish it back to its obscure corner.

[Mr Poltroon]

And Tiago suprisingly got the point here. Nice job TiagofVarela.

Oi, you need to understand that I'm not as much of an idiot as I seem. Just because I understand what people say, that is the main thing with communication, it doesn't mean I agree with it.

Either way, let us wait with bated breath for the imminent destruction of Fuwachat!

[Tay]

$5000 FuwaDollars for the heads of anyone who proposed this idea. RIP.

[nohman]

So, a lot of interesting science seems to be happening.

 

[Guest]

I totally change my vote, keep trying to change.

[Darklord Rooke]

Note the good in good reasons.

 

As long as you're defining "good" to mean "good for me and a handful of other members," then I'm sure you raise a good point. Unfortunately the chatbox was really meant to benefit the community as a whole.

 

The chatbox can be yet another tool to expand the community and bring them closer together. In a perfect world it wouldn't require a member to be logged in to be visible, and it would be moderated decently so it would remain a warm, casual place without decending into the behaviour which makes the FSG infamous. People who lurked on the forums would see what a fun place the Fuwa community can be, be encouraged to participate, which will lead to Fuwanovel having more members in the future. This is similar to the way the Unlimited Chat Thread managed to rope in new members for Fuwa, even though not everyone likes that thread. In addition to this, having a casual, fun, and chatty place to hang out which is plainly visible to everyone and fairly active (I.E. you're not just shouting into a dead chatbox,) may have encouraged participation and reduced the amount of random chatter on the forums. All clear benefits to the community which is why I kept asking for a chatbox to be tried and experimented. Unfortunately all Tay could do is put the Fuwachat where it ended up, which provides nearly zero benefits to the community other than keeping a small handful of people happy. 

 

And unfortunately this proposed incarnation of the Fuwachat will still require people to be logged in to see it, which will once again reduce its potential usefulness. But c'est la vie.

 

$5000 FuwaDollars for the heads of anyone who proposed this idea. RIP.

 

All of us live only to make your life more difficult and exciting. Think of it as a public service

[Nosebleed]

It looked beautiful.

 

Yeah if we can't figure out how to put it on the footer area so it looks decent, it's "a bit" troublesome. (see what I did there? No? Okay...)