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Weabooism: The experience, its causes (in Westerners), and tempering it with doses of reality


Clephas

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Hello, my name is Clephas, and I am/was a weaboo.  *snickers at the AA reference*  I'm mostly posting on this matter to give those otakus who aren't necessarily weaboos an idea of what it is like to be a weaboo (ignoring social problems, for the moment, haha) and just why we exist in the first place. 

First, to correct a common misconception... not all weaboos are solely obsessed with Japanese culture/history/etc.  In fact, most Western ones are or eventually become interested in all Asian cultures.  There are a number of reasons for it usually starting with an obsession with Japan, and I'll try to cover them all for you. 

The most obvious reason is that Japan's culture is so obviously different from anything in the average Westerner's personal experience (extracting those that come from first-generation Asian immigrant families).  To be blunt, the average American can at least guess at European sensibilities and the average European can do the same, with some mental effort.  We share a basic religious background, our social contracts are based on the same basic philosophy (with differences in preferences), and we tend to have similar cultural ancestors if we look back into history.  Heck, even most of Latin American can say the same.  So, for the average white-on-white Westerner (or Hispanic as the case may be), there might be numerous personal differences, but the actual cultural differences are in the details rather than the base elements. 

On the other hand, there is literally no common base between us and most Asian cultures, save that which we forcibly transplanted during the colonial days of the past two centuries.  Whereas we experienced various types of paganism and polytheism followed by Christianity, they experienced Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto... the list goes on.  Not only that, the way we developed our cultures was essentially different.  Confucianism in China (and the symbol of the Emperor in Japan) provided a sense of structure and continuity for centuries that altered greatly the way Chinese see the world even today, though most of its precepts have been altered almost beyond recognition in the millennia since their development.  This sense of continuity (in aspects other than philosophical) over such a vast period of time is perhaps one of the biggest causes of differences between Chinese culture in particular and Asian culture in general.  To be blunt, when the Chinese were already an Empire, our ancestors were mostly banging on drums in small settlements across the face of Europe, begging the elements not to starve our children or flood us out.  The 'weight' of culture is so much greater in Japan in China that Westerners in general and Americans in particular can't help but be impressed (or offended/frightened as the case may be) on first encounter with it. 

That said, whether that first impression turns to fascination or apathy is entirely based on the individual.  People that are more curious are more likely to get sucked into it, whereas those who prefer what they already have are more likely to simply set aside that first impression and move on. 

Another reason is that Japan is really really good at 'advertising' its culture... without really trying.  How many of you watched Pokemon, DBZ, or even Voltron or Robotech as kids without even knowing what it was?  I think you'd be surprised at how many otakus received an early baptism of Japanese ideas that planted the seeds for an eventual otaku and/or weaboo transformation.   For that matter, how many of you saw Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (new or old) or one of the more modern Batman movies?  Perhaps because of the intimate role we played in rebuilding post-war Japan, as well as the stream of Japanese who immigrated after the war, Japanese influence touches lightly on a great deal of our urban society (less so on the rural, though). 

The 'second baptism' that most Americans experience is negative... it is history class when you hit WWII.  The ferocity and apparent insanity (in the average Westerner's eyes) of the Japanese during the war causes an almost involuntary fascination in those who read about it, that frequently leads to a search for answers as to just why they acted the way they did during the war.  This inevitably leads to the samurai culture (both popular and historical), thus frequently creating new weaboos in droves, despite the fact that the WWII history is pretty horrifying the way it is presented (and even worse in reality).

No one is more mouthy and annoying than a new convert of any sort... and those weaboos that most annoy people are generally this type... the ones who haven't yet realized that their obsession can annoy others and thus can't stop themselves from chattering endlessly about some new aspect they discovered along the way, as if they were the first to find that particular fact out. 

Tips for tempering your obsession

If you are a weaboo, it is almost inevitable you will say too much to someone who isn't interested at some point.  In that way, it is a lot like standard otakuism.  However, if you want to at least limit your annoyance factors, here are a few tips.

1- Don't beautify every single aspect of Japanese culture you find.  Samurai culture led to the insane nationalism and mass suicides of WWII.  Geisha were glorified prostitutes (albeit artistically beautiful ones).  Ninja were spies descended from thieves and common murderers.  (etc. etc.)

2- Be aware that Japanese culture can take some seriously ugly turns in the modern era (the fact that police don't get involved in domestic affairs, the weak rape laws and enforcement of those laws, bullying in schools and at work, hikikomori, karoushi). 

3- Be aware that the excessive pride of some Japanese has led to a resurrection of the same nationalism that caused their involvement in WWII (modern historical revisionism focused on WWII and the events immediately preceding it is a prime example of this).

4- The Japanese really did do most of the horrible things their neighbors said they did... not to mention the POW camps where they held the Philippines US troops during the war.

5- Japanese gun control only works because they have no history of regular people possessing personal arms.

Well, that ends my lecture for the day. 

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I think a reason why people stick to Japanese media over western, is we find it more comfortable to adapt to what popular Japanese otaku media appeals to, where than what popular western media appeals to. 

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I don't necessarily like Japanese culture.  I like the Japanese *counter* culture as expressed in the otaku subculture.  It's key to distinguish the craziness you see in anime and eroge from what it's actually like to live, study, and work in Japan.  Otaku culture is no more representative of Japanese culture as a whole than Hollywood movies are representative of American culture.

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Anything taken to extreme will lead you to fanaticism and that's always ALWAYS a bad thing.

Lets not forget either the second sino war, they are still apologizing for all those atrocious crimes. 

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A little fact that should keep yall from sleeping at night... all three of the largest economies on the planet are from cultures (political or otherwise) that are naturally extreme xenophobes.  The US's isolationism, China's contempt for any other nation and the near-institutionalized wariness (sometimes straying into hate) of the states that once occupied their lands, and Japan's tendency toward over-adjustment to contacts with foreign cultures... (the nationalism of the early twentieth and mid to late nineteenth centuries having been a reaction to the attempts of Britain and other foreign states to turn them into another China).  When I let myself think about it, I can't see anything good coming of this situation, lol.

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There's a fine line between interest and obsession, and obsessions are almost always unhealthy to hold. This goes for Japanese culture as well. I have some obsessive aspects of my personality but thankfully I've been able to avoid going full weab thus far. 

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A little fact that should keep yall from sleeping at night... all three of the largest economies on the planet are from cultures (political or otherwise) that are naturally extreme xenophobes.  The US's isolationism, China's contempt for any other nation and the near-institutionalized wariness (sometimes straying into hate) of the states that once occupied their lands, and Japan's tendency toward over-adjustment to contacts with foreign cultures... (the nationalism of the early twentieth and mid to late nineteenth centuries having been a reaction to the attempts of Britain and other foreign states to turn them into another China).  When I let myself think about it, I can't see anything good coming of this situation, lol.

I don't think the rest of the world would characterize the US as """isolationist""".  Especially those who don't like the US.

Edited by sanahtlig
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A little fact that should keep yall from sleeping at night... all three of the largest economies on the planet are from cultures (political or otherwise) that are naturally extreme xenophobes.  The US's isolationism, China's contempt for any other nation and the near-institutionalized wariness (sometimes straying into hate) of the states that once occupied their lands, and Japan's tendency toward over-adjustment to contacts with foreign cultures... (the nationalism of the early twentieth and mid to late nineteenth centuries having been a reaction to the attempts of Britain and other foreign states to turn them into another China).  When I let myself think about it, I can't see anything good coming of this situation, lol.

I don't think the rest of the world would characterize the US as """isolationist""".  Especially those who don't like the US.

Oh no. The US isn't isolationist in anyway. The CIA made sure of that throughout the cold war to this day.  Ever since President Truman signed the National Security Act of 1947, US have been an active interventionist effectively through CIA across the globe especially the Middle East.

Prime examples would be -

  • CIA overthrowing democratically elected Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in 1953 when he threatened to nationalize British Oil and replaced him with a dictator, the Shah of Iran, and his infamous SAVAK police force who were seen to be equally brutal as the Nazi Gestapo.
  • CIA overthrowing democratically elected Guatemalan President Jacobo Arbenz in 1954 when he threatened to nationalize Rockefeller-owned United Fruit Company, in which the CIA Director Allen Dulles owned stocks.
  • CIA overthrowing and assassinating democratically elected Chilean President Salvador Allende in 1973 when Allende begins nationalizing American-owned firms in Chile. The CIA replaces Allende with General Augusto Pinochet who later, tortures and murders thousands of his own country men in a crackdown on labor leaders and the political left.

Unfortunately, these large economical and influential countries are more paranoid and gluttonous than xenophobic as one would propose.

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It's not a matter of who was in the wrong more but more so of what was the reason, petty or not. (My original post seems suggestive now that I look at it. I'll modify it if any confusion arises or I get trapped in an unwinnable argument :Kappa:).

And yeah, I agree with you. It's not fair to just blame one side.

Whether 'theft' was intentional/committed or just the leaders were looking out for their own country during the cold war is a discussion for another day.

Edited by Redpanda
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lol... the US's political culture is naturally isolationist and xenophobic.  However, the experience of WWII basically convinced us that the only way to maintain our prosperity was to crush foreign opposition before it became a real problem and use economic force to take over the world.  It doesn't change the fact that our society is naturally isolationist at its core... at present, our nation's political culture is split (on a dimension that still manages to cross the lines between parties) between internationalists and xenophobes... and the xenophobes are the vocal minority and a silent majority.  Of course, as the nation moves rapidly toward edging the Caucasians out of their majority, some of that xenophobia will be relieved, but it doesn't change the realities at this point. 

Edit: I should clarify this point... interventionism is not necessarily in opposition to isolationism, due to the miracles of double-think.  Interventionism is a tool of isolationism, at this point, though it wasn't so much so during the Cold War, ironically.

Edited by Clephas
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https://www.apstudynotes.org/us-history/sample-essays/american-foreign-policy-isolationism-to/

 I don't know about being natural but since World War II, US has been an interventionist. Before that, yes, America was the epitome of isolationism. An isolationist to it's core since the Founding Fathers of the United States promoted isolationism.

But now it's different. Globalization is ubiquitous and a must if the said state or country wants to stay developed and remain in power. All those first world countries (US included) practices and promotes globalization at every turn.

America applies brinkmanship in larger scale concerning outer dispute and conflicts (sometimes they fail with horrible ramifications) with the help of it's foreign policy and the CIA. Espionage carried out on business potential lands leading to the competitor's ultimate capitulation is done openly (or without much secrecy). Lots of obvious evidences can be found throughout history. To say that the US practices isolationism currently in it's foreign policies would be to deny the facts.

But I agree with you that Xenophobia is currently present. 

Edit: I should clarify this point... interventionism is not necessarily in opposition to isolationism, due to the miracles of double-think.  Interventionism is a tool of isolationism, at this point, though it wasn't so much so during the Cold War, ironically.

If I'm understanding this post correctly, due to political indoctrination the common people think that there is no conflict between interventionism and isolationism? (Person being completely unaware of the contradiction, that's caused by doublethink right?) And that interventionism is promoted as a necessity for achieving isolationism?

I find this rather ambiguous. Either way, Interventionism is the opposite/antithesis of Isolationism technically (filtering out individual subjectivity).

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No, people are subconsciously isolationist.  It isn't something people other than some Libertarians or one-issue voters/candidates are actively conscious of.  Interventionism is a fear-driven reaction to protect our own lifestyles and make them easier... with a complete disregard for the cost to other states/races/ethnicities.  That very disregard is the prime mark of a modern isolationist.  The same person might be willing to donate that nine cents for the 'orphans of Africa', but they will frequently also support military intervention to destroy threats to their lifestyle... and be rabidly anti-whateveristheenemyofthemoment most of the time.  Before our involvement in WWII, American isolationism took the form of a complete disregard for the circumstances of other nations - even allies - as long as we profited... does that really sound any different from today?  The only difference is that we transformed from passive isolationism to active isolationism.  We realized that if we just sat there doing nothing, someone would raid the gold pile or try to slap our hands off their gold pile, so quite naturally we deployed spies, security guards (garrisons in other nations), etc. to protect the interests we previously thought could be protected through self-interested neutrality.  In exchange for self-interested neutrality, we have self-interested interventionism to keep the dirtiness on other people's lands. 

The only problem with this - from an American's point of view - is that that same policy of interventionism is supported and justified by the 'world's police' role that America has taken on (though current politics are moving against it, domestically), thus costing us money we really would rather spend elsewhere.  Early on, the interventionist policy paid economic dividends, but it is rapidly becoming a dead weight on the economy.

Edit: Ah, incidentally I won't be keeping this conversation alive... I hadn't intended to talk politics and human nature in this blog, and it isn't really suitable overall.

Edited by Clephas
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Thanks Celphas. Even if we failed to reach a mutual understanding, this whole conversation proved quite educational to me. Of course, the main topic Weabooism included.

Now I know where to look if I ever wanted my one dimensional mind to have different interesting and genuine perspectives.

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Guest

Posted (edited)

Samurai culture led to the insane nationalism and mass suicides of WWII.

Not entirely true. Same thing could have happened anywhere else. The samurai thingy was just a pretext from the higher ups.

Geisha were glorified prostitutes

That's a misconseption. Geisha's are not prostitutes.

Edited by Guest
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It starts with anime, and than the next thing you know your kids learn Japanese, Chinese, Korean and move to one of those countries. Lol, I'm exaggerating a lot. But I do think you made a good point that a lot of weebs eventfully expand their interest to other Asian cultures. Despite the fact that I almost failed Chinese in high school, after studying Japanese for over a year (with an emphasis on reading and Kanji), I'm actually thinking about studying Chinese next fall. I think weebism is just an early symptom for over all Asianophilia.  

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In my case, it mostly grew out of a fondness for 'difference'.  I always liked weird things... and Japanese culture - and later Asian cultures in general - just hit my sweet spot at the right time.  The defensive-aggressive stance that otakus of the early era were forced to take on in order to proliferate their numbers and protect their psyches against the constant 'is that a cartoon?' questions tended to make it worse, lol.

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This was certainly an interesting read. As someone who isn't as much into the culture/history as much as I am just a fan of anime/manga/VN's, I had no idea about the rape laws being so weak/gun control/bullying/police not getting involved in domestic affairs. Japan sounds like it could be a pretty harsh place to live in.

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