Asonn Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 20 minutes ago, Nekolover said: OK I know that. So? Has any of that happen in the US? Besides Canada or other weird countries? Ah forget it. It the same. People are coward. Always doing what some uptight asshole says. like ~80% of the countries from Europe has laws against any (2D included) pornographic content with underage girls.... So before asking the oblivious why not research before you gonna ask a stupid question? Don't get me wrong I love to see more loli games but the companies are at huge risk here, so why would they risk it? Dergonu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ittaku Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 No one's being an ass here. The fact is that in most countries besides Japan the law makes loli games illegal. It does not matter what you think about the laws, it would be stupid for VN localising companies to risk going against the law, thus if they decide to localise any VNs with loli aspects, they choose games where the loli component is as obfuscated as possible - i.e. they never choose games where it literally says the protagonist is in elementary school, under 12 years old etc. They choose titles where they're thousand year old faeries that look 9 years old, or are actually humanised trains that look like they're 6 year old humans. Regardless of what you think of the law, it's the law, and massive fines and imprisonment are very real possibilities. Changing the law is much harder than choosing less controversial material to work with in the first place. If the material is deemed paedophilia in your country, you will likely serve a jail sentence and be tagged a paedophile for life, even if it's joke material involving Simpsons characters (as happened in Australia and Canada.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekolover Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, Asonn said: like ~80% of the countries from Europe has laws against any (2D included) pornographic content with underage girls.... So before asking the oblivious why not research before you gonna ask a stupid question? Don't get me wrong I love to see more loli games but the companies are at huge risk here, so why would they risk it? Another asshole. Let me ask you this. How is it stupid to ask a question about something you know next to nothing about it? I don't see how is it obvious when I don't agree with such mentality. Hence why I am asking for an explanation. I also don't live in Europe so my question comes from a place where such stupidity is minimal a best. Even with the exceptions to the rule. So no is not a stupid question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Youre an asshole, and youre an asshole, so are you, even you!! Everyone is an asshole woohoo!!! All aboard the asshole train! In more serious news, the lack of loli in the west is as every described. In the US, and most other western nations, get caught with what a court can declare child porn, your life is essentially ruined. Good luck finding a job, good luck having free internet access, good luck buying a house, etc. Its simply not worth the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekolover Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, ittaku said: No one's being an ass here. The fact is that in most countries besides Japan the law makes loli games illegal. It does not matter what you think about the laws, it would be stupid for VN localising companies to risk going against the law, thus if they decide to localise any VNs with loli aspects, they choose games where the loli component is as obfuscated as possible - i.e. they never choose games where it literally says the protagonist is in elementary school, under 12 years old etc. They choose titles where they're thousand year old faeries that look 9 years old, or are actually trains that look like they're 6 year old humans. Regardless of what you think of the law, it's the law, and massive fines and imprisonment are very real possibilities. Changing the law is much harder than choosing less controversial material to work with in the first place. That opinion. And? Doing nothing about it doesn't solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekolover Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, solidbatman said: Youre an asshole, and youre an asshole, so are you, even you!! Everyone is an asshole woohoo!!! All aboard the asshole train! In more serious news, the lack of loli in the west is as every described. In the US, and most other western nations, get caught with what a court can declare child porn, your life is essentially ruined. Good luck finding a job, good luck having free internet access, good luck buying a house, etc. Its simply not worth the risk. Yes, I know that. Why I insist on changing the law but of course people are too fucking lazy to try. Even then those who hold power are the ones with the problem but the lack of trying is a poor excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, Nekolover said: Yes, I know that. Why I insist on changing the law but of course people are too fucking lazy to try. Even then those who hold power are the ones with the problem but the lack of trying is a poor excuse. No politician in their right mind is going to go after child pornography laws. These are laws that are not going to be changed. I feel like there is no reason to change them, with the exception of ensuring that the accused are not automatically treated as guilty (which is a far bigger problem than silly porn games in my eyes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asonn Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Why am I an asshole for pointing out the facts? The question is already answered for multiple times. And you agreeing or not doesn't change the fact that are the rules. and what problem should be solved?, the rules are there not for nothing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Lolis are legal in Finland. Fuck other countries. Finland also edited the law regarding CP in 2010 so it makes it really clear that lolis are legal. Dergonu and KuroganeHomura 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekolover Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, solidbatman said: No politician in their right mind is going to go after child pornography laws. These are laws that are not going to be changed. I feel like there is no reason to change them, with the exception of ensuring that the accused are not automatically treated as guilty (which is a far bigger problem than silly porn games in my eyes). Fiction isn't child porn. Nor I am talking about porn about kids. I am talking about changin the part where fiction is included. Everything you just say is out context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, Nekolover said: Fiction isn't child porn. Nor I am talking about porn about kids. I am talking about changin the part where fiction is included. It is classified by the courts systems as child porn should they come after you for it. Its similar to piracy tbh. Its illegal, but its rare to see someone taken in over it. However, if you do get taken in over it, you would most likely be found guilty, as Nosebleed showed with his links. If you want to change it, the best way is to start polling people. Provide politicians with real, hard numbers saying, "Hey, a large number of your constituents would like to see the laws regarding child pornography altered to no longer include works of fiction, or visual representation of fictional underage characters." Politicians act in the interests of self-preservation. They will usually do what they think will win them re-election. So, get their voters to care, you get the politician to care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekolover Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, Asonn said: Why am I an asshole for pointing out the facts? The question is already answered for multiple times. And you agreeing or not doesn't change the fact that are the rules. and what problem should be solved?, the rules are there not for nothing.... You didn't read what I write. So I will not bother explaining why. Excuses is what I got. Me agreeing or disagreeing.... Are you 5 years old? Please use that argument with somebody else who cares. Fiction shouldn't be included. Isn't real. Yes they are. The part where fiction is include is useless. It protect nobody other than fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekolover Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, solidbatman said: It is classified by the courts systems as child porn should they come after you for it. Its similar to piracy tbh. Its illegal, but its rare to see someone taken in over it. However, if you do get taken in over it, you would most likely be found guilty, as Nosebleed showed with his links. If you want to change it, the best way is to start polling people. Provide politicians with real, hard numbers saying, "Hey, a large number of your constituents would like to see the laws regarding child pornography altered to no longer include works of fiction, or visual representation of fictional underage characters." Politicians act in the interests of self-preservation. They will usually do what they think will win them re-election. So, get their voters to care, you get the politician to care. 4 classified by the courts systems as child porn and? Just because the court says something doesn't make it factual. politicians? That never going to happen. This country is too stupid for that. Maybe 20 or 40 years. Yes I am complaining but most politicians are cowards. Only listing to money. The best chance for that are lawyers but they are too busy making laws to fuck people over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Nosebleed said: And before that, a visual novel translator was arrested for merely importing erotic games. It was actually a masturbation device with an anime character on the packaging, as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 1 minute ago, sanahtlig said: It was actually a masturbation device with an anime character on the packaging, as I recall. That's what happened with Doddler. He was later released and charges were dropped, but he had to register as a sex offender for like 2 years. Which I might add is also a valid story in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekolover Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, Nosebleed said: That's what happened with Doddler. He was later released and charges were dropped, but he had to register as a sex offender for like 2 years. This gave me cancer. Well guess my only choice is to learn Japanese and move over to japan when I can afford it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john 'mr. customer' smith Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 47 minutes ago, Nekolover said: You are being asshole *cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, Nosebleed said: He was later released and charges were dropped, but he had to register as a sex offender for like 2 years. If you're referring to the story I'm referring to, it was misreported. It involved a masturbation device, not an eroge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekolover Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, sanahtlig said: If you're referring to the story I'm referring to, it was misreported. It involved a masturbation device, not an eroge. Dude yes but regardless is a stupid reason nonetheless. This my problem with the law. Anything that isn't real shouldn't be included in there but of course, people are idiots. Let defend the law because it protect kids even thought there is a lot of shit in it that make no sense whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, Nekolover said: classified by the courts systems as child porn and? Just because the court says something doesn't make it factual. politicians? That never going to happen. This country is too stupid for that. Maybe 20 or 40 years. Yes I am complaining but most politicians are cowards. Only listing to money. The best chance for that are lawyers but they are too busy making laws to fuck people over. The courts determine the validity of law. The court system has done nothing to contest the current child pornography laws. It is how our government was formed. Read the constitution, it explains how the court system works. A law is a law until the Court systems determine that said law violates the rights of an individual. Their was actually a court case regarding child pornography back in 1982 called New York v. Ferber. In it, the Supreme Court of the US (of which Puerto Rico is a territory and subject to US law) ruled that child pornography is not a right protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution. So your road to legalize fictional underage sex is even more uphill now, as someone would need to get in trouble for it, get arrested, appeal to the Supreme Court, and have their previous ruling overturned. Alternatively, a Constitutional amendment would need to happen, which requires an insane amount of public support. In short, the true legalization of loli porn, in the US at least, is not going to happen anytime in the near future, and I'd wager that it will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekolover Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, solidbatman said: The courts determine the validity of law. The court system has done nothing to contest the current child pornography laws. It is how our government was formed. Read the constitution, it explains how the court system works. A law is a law until the Court systems determine that said law violates the rights of an individual. Their was actually a court case regarding child pornography back in 1982 called New York v. Ferber. In it, the Supreme Court of the US (of which Puerto Rico is a territory and subject to US law) ruled that child pornography is not a right protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution. So your road to legalize fictional underage sex is even more uphill now, as someone would need to get in trouble for it, get arrested, appeal to the Supreme Court, and have their previous ruling overturned. Alternatively, a Constitutional amendment would need to happen, which requires an insane amount of public support. In short, the true legalization of loli porn, in the US at least, is not going to happen anytime in the near future, and I'd wager that it will never happen. OK do me a favor and stop treating child porn and fiction as the same. They are not. I don't give a fuck what the court says. The court could say the sky is red and we know is bullshit. Fiction isn't child porn. And what the fuck does child porn has to do with fiction? If the person was convicted of real child porn then ok. But if it was fiction then everybody involved in that decision is mental. Also, stop talking about the law like is a bible or something. Laws are constantly changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekolover Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 8 minutes ago, john 'mr. customer' smith said: *cough* And? I know that but they pretending they are angels is worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, Nekolover said: OK do me a favor and stop treating child porn and fiction as the same. They are not. I don't give a fuck what the court says. The court could say the sky is red and we know is bullshit. Fiction isn't child porn. And what the fuck does child porn has to do with fiction? If the person was convicted of real child porn then ok. But if it was fiction then everybody involved in that decision is mental. Also, stop talking about the law like is a bible or something. Laws are constantly changing. I'm trying to get across, that the what the courts have said is law. Your personal opinion is not law. My personal opinion is not law. Tay's personal opinion is not law. I am not saying that it is right or wrong. Just laying out the facts as they stand right now. The courts have ruled in the past, again, that fictional explicit child porn, is still child porn. The law is absolute, until it changes, and you are right. Laws are constantly changing. I am trying to show you, however, that this is a portion of law that I don't see changing anytime soon, due to the court challenges it faces, and the constitutional aspect of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Pornography, especially pornography not depicting real people, needs to be protected speech. Not necessarily free to distribute anywhere, but available through the right channels (e.g., the Internet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekolover Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, solidbatman said: I'm trying to get across, that the what the courts have said is law. Your personal opinion is not law. My personal opinion is not law. Tay's personal opinion is not law. I am not saying that it is right or wrong. Just laying out the facts as they stand right now. The courts have ruled in the past, again, that fictional explicit child porn, is still child porn. The law is absolute, until it changes, and you are right. Laws are constantly changing. I am trying to show you, however, that this is a portion of law that I don't see changing anytime soon, due to the court challenges it faces, and the constitutional aspect of it all. Well I say is wrong. And yes you are probably most likely correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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