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firecat

Steam is not special, its just another website

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2 hours ago, Valmore said:

Well remember, Steam does have a policy about distribution of what might be considered pornography. Since a lot of VNs tend to have erogi, ecchi, etc. Steam isn't going to allow distribution of the adult versions. Most companies will offer a patch to restore the h-scenes on the back-end. Just the cost of doing business with the most recognizable internet site for games.

Which is pretty much why Steam gets used. Unless you're EA or some other game company with a huge worldwide presence and a marketing department of suits, Steam is fairly essential to getting your game out there at a reasonable cost. And heck, even big companies still use Steam as part of their releases, which just shows the value of having it.

It's better to be on a central place that everyone knows to gain any chance at larger exposure. Think American Idol - would Kelly Clarkson be anywhere today had she not won that gawdawful tv show contest? Probably not. Would Clannad be anywhere in the US with a true translation instead of a fan patch without Steam? Probably not - who would distribute it? A virtually unknown-to-Americans Japanese gaming company?

I don't think Steam can really fall under the title of "Just Another Website" until you can name 9 more similar websites that deliver the same impact as Steam does.

why didnt you read the example one page 1, oh well here are your 9 examples:

itch.io -the same but moblie games, browser games, ad-free expernace, and yes it has a client (you got ownd steam)

Amazon - you can also add browser and mobile games.

IndieGameStand - you can also add mobile games

Your website - you can add anything on your website even console download (yes people can and had done that).

Microsoft and itune store - yes microsoft copy apple, so basicly windows or mac download and you can download mobile games for that company.

gog.com - pc download and yes it has a client.

Desura - pc download and it has a client

overkill time ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

gamergate.com - pc download with moblie support.

gamestreamer.com - pc download

shockwave.com - pc download

bigfishgames.com - pc and moblie games

finish him ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

indiedb.com - helps get the word out!

tumblr_ncvkcjCDG31sodwato1_400.gif

1 hour ago, Satsuki said:

No, it was not us, but the programmers, writers, artists,...working behind the scene that brought us the vn.

Are you confusing Steam and Kickstarter or what? Steam, after all, is just an digital game store. They can only help with selling and PR the completed game. The process of making the game, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with them. So why are you blaming Steam?

Oh btw, I knew about most of the vn's Kickstarter from Steam Greenlight, rather than other sources.

why u no read, i never blame steam. people in the vn community help make it possible to create the vn and placed it on steam. there is no evidence that greenlight played a role in helping create many titles that sakurai project uploaded. following the news from the companies through steam doesn't count, thats not what the topic is about.

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3 hours ago, Valmore said:

I don't think Steam can really fall under the title of "Just Another Website" until you can name 9 more similar websites that deliver the same impact as Steam does.

I think that the key words here are same impact.

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16 minutes ago, firecat said:

why u no read, i never blame steam. people in the vn community help make it possible to create the vn and placed it on steam. there is no evidence that greenlight played a role in helping create many titles that sakurai project uploaded. following the news from the companies through steam doesn't count, thats not what the topic is about.

I don't remember the topic ever being about how Steam helped CREATING the vn either. It's selling we are talking about here, and Steam is doing a good job on that. Creating and funding are Kickstarter's job, not Steam.

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4 minutes ago, Satsuki said:

I don't remember the topic ever being about how Steam helped CREATING the vn either. It's selling we are talking about here, and Steam is doing a good job on that. Creating and funding are Kickstarter's job, not Steam.

good now you are learning, now how many people do play the game? the answer is up to the user since we can never get that information. how many people bought that game? its a very random answer but once people buy it they dont consider to rebuying it ever again, thats right once its brought you are left with no way to gain money from the same audience. that brings us to where things are right now, sales do look good but its one time buy. you could add DLC but really why? vn are complete stories and not one the western companies has rights to upload a DLC. the hype train can only go so far as well, since we cant upload extreme violent games, most visual novels will never past and once the companies had upload all the 13+ age titles people are left with novels that cant upheld the ones we know today.

its like retro games, people like them and today's newer games cant match the retro era (in other words we might see more bad vn in the future).

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18 minutes ago, firecat said:

good now you are learning, now how many people do play the game? the answer is up to the user since we can never get that information. how many people bought that game? its a very random answer but once people buy it they dont consider to rebuying it ever again, thats right once its brought you are left with no way to gain money from the same audience. that brings us to where things are right now, sales do look good but its one time buy. you could add DLC but really why? vn are complete stories and not one the western companies has rights to upload a DLC. the hype train can only go so far as well, since we cant upload extreme violent games, most visual novels will never past and once the companies had upload all the 13+ age titles people are left with novels that cant upheld the ones we know today.

its like retro games, people like them and today's newer games cant match the retro era (in other words we might see more bad vn in the future).

Then again, how is this have anything to do with the topic? Yes, one time buy, which apply to almost every other games except some big franchises. And in that case, you will want your game to be seen by as many people as possible. And because of that, Steam is much better than other platforms, due to its huge amount of user. I don't know how true those statistics are, but I can be sure that Steam has 10, 100 times more users than itch.io and some other random stores.

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44 minutes ago, B0X0R said:

I think that the key words here are same impact.

Exactly. Every website listed isn't even in the same ballpark as Steam. Just being able to download games isn't delivering the same impact as Steam, and most of them don't have the same brand recognition. For example, Amazon.com isn't somewhere to go and also play the games you download with other people. Sure, I can get anything from a pet rock to Fallout 4, but it's not a place that's going to even bother giving any sort of advertising to a new Visual Novel or indie game. Because Amazon is a marketplace, it doesn't specialize in games.

IE: I create a new indie game. I need a place to put it. It's not wrong to have it available on multiple locations, but which one are most laypersons going to recognize and likely be a part of already?

"You can download it on bigfishgames.com."

OR

"You can download it on Steam."

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Don't take it as me not liking smaller places for downloading games - on the contrary it would be great if Steam got some real competition, as that's what drives companies to do better. Without competition, the lone big company can fall into complacency. Steam may not be perfect, but they are very good for what they can offer and do overall as a website.

Heck, I'll probably go visit gog and few other sites, just because I also love hearing about alternatives.

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I don't really get the point of this thread. It feels like you're just trying really, really hard to make Steam look bad. If being the most popular pc game store doesn't make Steam "special" to you, then that's you're own opinion, but it's a well known fact and really the main reason anyone of us is on there. All of your other points are off topic.

If you're trying to make some other websites more well known, I advise focusing more on why I should go there, rather than bashing Steam.

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On 1/23/2016 at 9:23 PM, Satsuki said:

Then again, how is this have anything to do with the topic? Yes, one time buy, which apply to almost every other games except some big franchises. And in that case, you will want your game to be seen by as many people as possible. And because of that, Steam is much better than other platforms, due to its huge amount of user. I don't know how true those statistics are, but I can be sure that Steam has 10, 100 times more users than itch.io and some other random stores.

 

On 1/23/2016 at 9:37 PM, Valmore said:

Exactly. Every website listed isn't even in the same ballpark as Steam. Just being able to download games isn't delivering the same impact as Steam, and most of them don't have the same brand recognition. For example, Amazon.com isn't somewhere to go and also play the games you download with other people. Sure, I can get anything from a pet rock to Fallout 4, but it's not a place that's going to even bother giving any sort of advertising to a new Visual Novel or indie game. Because Amazon is a marketplace, it doesn't specialize in games.

IE: I create a new indie game. I need a place to put it. It's not wrong to have it available on multiple locations, but which one are most laypersons going to recognize and likely be a part of already?

"You can download it on bigfishgames.com."

OR

"You can download it on Steam."

 

On 1/23/2016 at 9:49 PM, Rooke said:

And still has nowhere near the reach of Steam, unfortunately.

 

On 1/23/2016 at 0:52 AM, babiker said:

I don't really get the point of this thread. It feels like you're just trying really, really hard to make Steam look bad. If being the most popular pc game store doesn't make Steam "special" to you, then that's you're own opinion, but it's a well known fact and really the main reason anyone of us is on there. All of your other points are off topic.

If you're trying to make some other websites more well known, I advise focusing more on why I should go there, rather than bashing Steam.

yes congregations (its a real word look it up), every last one of you believes in the propaganda and started a propaganda just to prove a point. the real answer is that no one knows the answers, people had made steam into a wonderful thing and look at this, you guys even did it bravo, A++ propaganda.

steam isnt doesnt even -> market <- itself into a wonderful platform, the only thing its saying its to buy from them just like any other ->market<-. lets talk about this -> market <- steam has been doing, we know its been on since September 12, 2003; 12 years ago. why didnt it become popular in 2003? why it didnt it market itself? well internet was not worth anything to common people in 2003 having digital sales was like paying $200 for fast speed internet or in other words digital sales were worthless to common gamers in 2003. steam never had a market record in the early years of the company, the mear fact was that they were too new and inexperienced which leads gaming companies laughing at steam.

how did steam become what it is now? its believed in 2009 where news reporters had interesting topics on steam. they question steam application rules which we known today has "Locked Games", they also question many of today's problems they include bad games entering after 1 year or a month without anyone caring why, hidden agreements, etc, you get the point. however people had mistaken this criticism into "join steam but watch out for this stuff". however thats not where the big push comes from, it did start the propaganda but in 2012 of october greenlight was implanted in steam. remember steam never market itself in 2003 - 2012 (10 years), there were no major deals through companies, no indie developers, steam had nothing worth it. if you got a game on steam between 2003-2012 (10 years) it was because you earn it, thats where that propaganda was born. many developers brag about it, they never thought for once that valve would turn on them and they had hope that they can earn money from this digital era (our computers/internet had evolved). sadly many new indie developers saw greenlight, they were all thinking about the same thing... profit and exposure. thus the never ending propaganda, false hope, cheap tricks, etc, started which in turn had brought us to today's steam has the most propaganda talked show, way more than ISIS (its true).

what about their market? as i said -> new developers only <- uploaded to steam. big companies upload them to consoles or other websites, sometimes studios upload them somewhere else. this had flooded steam with indie games, the new developers brag about it and some are never seen again (most due to not caring). no one said steam is the largest gaming platform, its true look it up on google and you find nothing, steam itself never claim that title they never did, the players/developers made it up. there is no evidence that there are over 10 million active people online, accounts maybe but accounts are not people. people visit websites all the time, its common to see people visit popular websites because of the propaganda, however no one will ever know how many people there are since thats not how things work in the real world and news reporters covering steam deals is not considered "proof", its more like "buy these deals because we are being sponsored by certain company", then youtubers copy the news reporters.

lets end this with one big shocking discovery, everything you guys post, helped my research for publishing an article for a newspaper (we haven't decided who to talked to yet). every last one of you was very helpful more than reddit users who had rant about being the best and having ignore all our "counter" argument. we have gotten every information we never needed from you guys, greed, disbelieved, trust, lying, history, and love. dont worry your usernames or the mansion of this forum will be talked about on the article, we will only be saying we research users on reddit.

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:wahaha:

You have my deepest and humblest permission to use my username in your report. In fact I am currently printing your last post out and plan to show my friends in the office tomorrow! Please do me a favor and send me a link to the article when you get the chance! The moments that we had during the last 3 pages is proof that a small group of people who are logically stating their opinions in an average vocal volume, can indeed overpower a single person who is ejecting large, illogical, masses of beliefs, using an above average vocal volume.

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*Double post because the mods could always do with more work*

Also, why is this in creative corner? I realise Firecat's posts could be described as an example of extreme creativity, but is this really the most appropriate place? I would have thought either GD or gaming personally...

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21 minutes ago, Rooke said:

*Double post because the mods could always do with more work*

Also, why is this in creative corner? I realise Firecat's posts could be described as an example of extreme creativity, but is this really the most appropriate place? I would have thought either GD or gaming personally...

it involves developers not gamers, since i clearly shown that steam is just like any website (where's your meat shield now) it will help developers with deciding their fate. however it might be be lost in time but if i could at least save some people then i'm fine with that.

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Yup, a whole essay, still can't prove anything. Why should anyone care about "how" Steam became popular? Propaganda, bribing, threatening Obama's family, who cares? The fact remain that Steam is still most well known game platform with the largest amount of user (I won't count Uplay or Origin here, because they are store specialize for that company's game, not for others), and no, just because you can't find it on Google doesn't mean it's not true. Let me suggest you something extremely simple: how about just make a poll on New York Times (lol) and see how many people know/use Steam, and how many people know/use the other random sites that you posted?

And if it's popular, if it can provide developers with lots of potential customers, then the developers will choose it, that's all.

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1 hour ago, Satsuki said:

Yup, a whole essay, still can't prove anything. Why should anyone care about "how" Steam became popular? Propaganda, bribing, threatening Obama's family, who cares? The fact remain that Steam is still most well known game platform with the largest amount of user (I won't count Uplay or Origin here, because they are store specialize for that company's game, not for others), and no, just because you can't find it on Google doesn't mean it's not true. Let me suggest you something extremely simple: how about just make a poll on New York Times (lol) and see how many people know/use Steam, and how many people know/use the other random sites that you posted?

And if it's popular, if it can provide developers with lots of potential customers, then the developers will choose it, that's all.

again with the propaganda and you being part of a congregations group, look let me give you the straight fact answer. you and me have nothing, you and me are never going to win this because it can't be proven or seen. i stated this on the thread and you completely ignore it, the real fact is that steam is a website, you cant say no to it being a website.

 

31 minutes ago, B0X0R said:

Why do you @firecat hold such a disdain hatred for Steam? Don't give me any sources or opinions others, just your reasons and yours alone.

Why do you hate Steam?

steam is taking advantage of indie developers, if i could at least make people question the use of steam then maybe this wont happen in the future. its all about stopping something before it gets out of hand.

8 minutes ago, Valmore said:

Big developers and publishers don't use Steam?

Ubisoft (Tom Clancy's The Division)

Konami (Metal Gear Solid 5)

2K (XCom 2)

Bethesda (Fallout 4)

Yeah... never heard of those indie companies myself...

i said "there were no major deals through companies" keyword were

were  (wûr)
v.
1. Second person singular and plural and first and third person plural past indicative of be.
2. Past subjunctive of be.

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Like I said, if you want to know, just make a poll and see how well known Steam is. On the other hand, you have absolutely nothing to prove the opposite.

And when did I even say that Steam is not a website? Yes, it's a website, a store like all others, but the different being the amount of people using it, and that's the most important thing.

P/S: A little bit of statistics: On Alexa, Steam Store ranked 194, Itch.io ranked 14799, Humblebundle ranked 1549, Gamejolt ranked 10574 (global ranking).

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4 hours ago, firecat said:

what about their market? as i said -> new developers only <- uploaded to steam. big companies upload them to consoles or other websites, sometimes studios upload them somewhere else.

 

29 minutes ago, firecat said:

i said "there were no major deals through companies" keyword were

were  (wûr)
v.
1. Second person singular and plural and first and third person plural past indicative of be.
2. Past subjunctive of be.

Care to try again, or would you like to just keep wasting electrons on the internet?

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1 hour ago, firecat said:

steam is taking advantage of indie developers

This seems to be the essence of what you're trying to say, so expand this claim, concisely, ideally with some supporting evidence, because as it is, I have no idea what you mean. How is Steam taking advantage of indie developers?

Any idiot can (and many idiots do) write arbitrary walls of text with no point, let alone supporting evidence for such a point. An intelligent person can present an argument briefly. Right now, I don't even know what claim you're trying to make, except perhaps this little snippet which I culled from your thousands of words of spam thus far. I have yet to see anything like support for this claim, but maybe it's not even what you want to say; it's pretty hard to tell at this point.

So say what you want to say, concisely, providing supporting evidence, acknowledging and/or refuting counter-arguments. Otherwise you're just an idiot on a rant.

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