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Steam is not special, its just another website


firecat

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20 minutes ago, Zalor said:

If I recall correctly, The Walking Dead was a popular comic and then a hit TV show before it became a game (I didn't even know there was a game of it). Meaning it already had tons of publicity first. So it is not really a good example. As for Life is Strange, I don't know much about it. But apparently it was published by Square Enix, a well established company that people know and that has the money to advertise its products. So neither seem like good examples as counter points to my original argument.  

I don't think they are that much different. You don't just go and buy a game because "Oh, Square Enix made a new game, I don't care what it is but I must play it", right? And it's not like eroge developers have no money or don't do any kind of advertising either.

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Steam has practically monopolized game distribution on PC. It's special in the sense that it greatly deviates from the norm- It does have its big flaws, but trying to brush Steam off is utterly idiotic. Not even .1% of Steam's userbase would know of itch.io and similar storefronts, not releasing a PC game on Steam (except VNs) is pretty much an invitation for it to bomb (unless you're Minecraft).

 

Steam isn't "just another website", it is THE website for digital PC gaming. It's to PC gaming what Google is to search engines.

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It is true that Steam isn't anything out of the ordinary or special...it's just a platform ( a good one and sucessful one at that) but just a platfrom nontheless, the thing is that it has no one really competing against them..sure there's thiings like Battle.net, Origin, Desura yada yada yada but no one can match it's size or ammount of support of third party companies that want their games to succeed on it nor it's online services. not to mention that it being valve's it also has the bonus of hosting it's own rooster of really well known games that also attract a huge crowd (Aka Dota 2, Cs:Go, Half-Life, Portal and such) so for indie devs to make it through greelinght is a huge thing for them because of the wider approach to the market they get by getting onto the steam store front...though steams quality check leaves a lot to be desired since it allows a ton of shit to make it through aswell.

 

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I have to add to this and say, if it wasn't for Steam, I wouldn't of discovered VN's like If My Heart Had Wings, The Fruit of Grisaia, and other VN's that are currently on my wish-list that I haven't purchased yet. If it wasn't for these games being on Steam, I wouldn't have searched for how to restore IMHHW and found Fuwanovel's awesome community. I definitely wouldn't be into VN's as much as I am now if those games weren't on Steam, because I wouldn't have found them.

I use Steam for pretty much like 99% of my PC gaming, I definitely don't agree with everything about Steam, but I like that it's convenient to me personally and I can have all my games and account information in one place, instead of on several different places, which is why I buy all my PC games on Steam. And millions of other people are exactly the game, which is why Steam is such a powerful platform to have games on, because that's where mostly every PC gamer is like it or not.

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27 minutes ago, Forgetful Frank said:

I have to add to this and say, if it wasn't for Steam, I wouldn't of discovered VN's like If My Heart Had Wings, The Fruit of Grisaia, and other VN's that are currently on my wish-list that I haven't purchased yet. If it wasn't for these games being on Steam, I wouldn't have searched for how to restore IMHHW and found Fuwanovel's awesome community. I definitely wouldn't be into VN's as much as I am now if those games weren't on Steam, because I wouldn't have found them.

I use Steam for pretty much like 99% of my PC gaming, I definitely don't agree with everything about Steam, but I like that it's convenient to me personally and I can have all my games and account information in one place, instead of on several different places, which is why I buy all my PC games on Steam. And millions of other people are exactly the game, which is why Steam is such a powerful platform to have games on, because that's where mostly every PC gamer is like it or not.

Yes good point actually. In fact, a lot of people play their first VNs on steam. 

Although it might not always be the best advertising for what VNs there are out there, (sakura games, I´m looking at you...), but we do have a lot of big titles there now, Clannad, G-Senjo no maou, Grisaia no Kajitsu, Nekopara (Its big in the moe world!!! :pyaa: ), If my heart had wings, Eden*, Planetarian, Princess Evangile and more. 

 

Steam is kind of special because its so well known. Like Decay has stated, when someone like Mangagamer releases a game on their site vs a release on steam, the "censored" version on steam still usually sells more, simply because it hits a much bigger, already existing user count/ fanbase. 

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9 hours ago, kingdomcome said:

i am so excite.

 

I think you will get a LOT more exposure using Steam compared to using, uhh what? All I can think of is humblebundle.

says the guy who brought from humblebundle and made a thread about it :vinty:

3 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

Steam has popularized VNs with hits like Sakura Spirit.  I'll let you decide whether that's good or bad.

Platform matters.  Exposure matters.  Reaching an audience that will actually pay for content... matters.

steam didnt do that, Sakura project was the one who talk to visual novel developers and ask the visual novel community for money. i dont know why they decided to go with steam but since visual novels are not first person shooter, you are seeing a gaming industry questing the treatment of vn in steam community. also platforum doesn't matter, if it got popular in playstation portal that most people haven't buy then why shouldent the same thing happen with VVVVVV, Epic Battle Fantasy, Tank Universal, etc. all of them got popular without steam, heck even halo got popular for xbox and people where worry about buying it.

 

3 hours ago, Funyarinpa said:

Steam has practically monopolized game distribution on PC. It's special in the sense that it greatly deviates from the norm- It does have its big flaws, but trying to brush Steam off is utterly idiotic. Not even .1% of Steam's userbase would know of itch.io and similar storefronts, not releasing a PC game on Steam (except VNs) is pretty much an invitation for it to bomb (unless you're Minecraft).

 

Steam isn't "just another website", it is THE website for digital PC gaming. It's to PC gaming what Google is to search engines.

nope google just looks at keywords, if you look up cats you'll get "cat" with "cats" this is called SEO the very same thing youtubers learn to build an audience. another factor to consider is that 80% of newbie developers publish their game -> only on steam <- which means google keywords only found that game in that site. do a experiment, look up at my game "The Unknowns Saga", "the unknowns" and "firecat" you will find that google's SEO works for anything.

1 hour ago, Forgetful Frank said:

I have to add to this and say, if it wasn't for Steam, I wouldn't of discovered VN's like If My Heart Had Wings, The Fruit of Grisaia, and other VN's that are currently on my wish-list that I haven't purchased yet. If it wasn't for these games being on Steam, I wouldn't have searched for how to restore IMHHW and found Fuwanovel's awesome community. I definitely wouldn't be into VN's as much as I am now if those games weren't on Steam, because I wouldn't have found them.

I use Steam for pretty much like 99% of my PC gaming, I definitely don't agree with everything about Steam, but I like that it's convenient to me personally and I can have all my games and account information in one place, instead of on several different places, which is why I buy all my PC games on Steam. And millions of other people are exactly the game, which is why Steam is such a powerful platform to have games on, because that's where mostly every PC gamer is like it or not.

thats thinking as a customer not a developer, yes you found it, yes you found us but steam didnt do that for you. if anything you could have done the same search and still found us and a very good game.

1 hour ago, Dergonu said:

Yes good point actually. In fact, a lot of people play their first VNs on steam. 

Although it might not always be the best advertising for what VNs there are out there, (sakura games, I´m looking at you...), but we do have a lot of big titles there now, Clannad, G-Senjo no maou, Grisaia no Kajitsu, Nekopara (Its big in the moe world!!! :pyaa: ), If my heart had wings, Eden*, Planetarian, Princess Evangile and more. 

 

Steam is kind of special because its so well known. Like Decay has stated, when someone like Mangagamer releases a game on their site vs a release on steam, the "censored" version on steam still usually sells more, simply because it hits a much bigger, already existing user count/ fanbase. 

nope steam didnt do that, mangagamer directed users to steam. the only thing steam did was censored the game which most users like myself did not like to buy (its not a good idea to buy a censored game when there is a uncensored game, why even do that). the company's direct users to steam, it was all them, steam had nothing to do with it, visual novels where not part of steam for like 90% of their time has a platform for PC games.

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Just now, firecat said:

nope steam didnt do that, mangagamer directed users to steam. the only thing steam did was censored the game which most users like myself did not like to buy (its not a good idea to buy a censored game when there is a uncensored game, why even do that). the company's direct users to steam, it was all them, steam had nothing to do with it, visual novels where not part of steam for like 90% of their time has a platform for PC games.

Well think about it, what mangagamer did was release their game on steam, a platform that already has a LOT of players. Mangagamer themselves only have so many costumers. By releasing their games on steam, they have a huge mass of people who can now buy it, compared to the slightly lacking following they themselves have. 

I of course get your point, but think that in this particular case steam is a pretty nifty little tool for VN makers to have in order to get more sales. 

Wether that actually pleases people like me, mangagamer and uncut eroge fans, is a completely different issue. 

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1 minute ago, Dergonu said:

Well think about it, what mangagamer did was release their game on steam, a platform that already has a LOT of players. Mangagamer themselves only have so many costumers. By releasing their games on steam, they have a huge mass of people who can now buy it, compared to the slightly lacking following they themselves have. 

I of course get your point, but think that in this particular case steam is a pretty nifty little tool for VN makers to have in order to get more sales. 

Wether that actually pleases people like me, mangagamer and uncut eroge fans, is a completely different issue. 

yet, not every title they have on the website (i'm looking at about 95% sex visual novels) have been place into steam. so no sales dont matter for them, if games like Forbidden Love with My Wife’s Sister, Shera, My Witch ; Harem Party get concerned because of one platform rule you are seeing a decrease in sales. thats no better than watching a porn video that also censors stuff, the reason to buy the sex vn will be gone.

also dont forget that not everyone likes visual novels, just like people who do not like to be naked all the time. its a mind game, if people buy the vn then its their reason not some report card that says people buy 10,000 because its selling high. thats where steam (name event here) comes into effect, yes they buy it but did they play it? a visual novel thats not played is ruining the reason why we want to make visual novels popular in the west.

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51 minutes ago, firecat said:

yet, not every title they have on the website (i'm looking at about 95% sex visual novels) have been place into steam. so no sales dont matter for them, if games like Forbidden Love with My Wife’s Sister, Shera, My Witch ; Harem Party get concerned because of one platform rule you are seeing a decrease in sales. thats no better than watching a porn video that also censors stuff, the reason to buy the sex vn will be gone.

also dont forget that not everyone likes visual novels, just like people who do not like to be naked all the time. its a mind game, if people buy the vn then its their reason not some report card that says people buy 10,000 because its selling high. thats where steam (name event here) comes into effect, yes they buy it but did they play it? a visual novel thats not played is ruining the reason why we want to make visual novels popular in the west.

It's not because "sales don't matter to them", it's because they can't. Most of their games are straight out nukige, how do you expect Valve to let those get on their store?

Btw, not everyone likes any other types of game either. And no, if they don't like it, then there is no reason for them to waste money buying it, just to make their inventory look good but never touch it either, even if the game has 20/10 IGN.

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Ehh, I don't understand what you mean exactly about thinking like a customer and a developer. Surely thinking as a developer/publisher, you want your game/product to be seen by as much people as possible. I know for a fact, that if none of those games were on Steam in the first place, the chances of me ever finding this community or even playing a VN were VERY slim. I mean, I've been gaming for most of my life, and I'm on my computer playing games most of my personal time, and not once in all these years of gaming, I ever stumbled across a VN that made me want to play more and explore more of its genre. I played Katawa Shoujo once years ago, but only because it was free and I can't really remember how I found it, I think a college friend suggested it, and I only ever played one route and was satisfied to not play anymore. But I wasn't prepared to go out of my way and purchase a VN, 1) because I didn't really know what sites to purchase from and honestly I didn't really trust any or feel comfortable with entering bank information on unfamiliar sites. 2) VN's are pretty pricey in some cases, especially if you're going to order internationally. So I just never bothered because it felt like such a pain. Fast forward to now where VN's are being put on Steam, I saw the Sakura games and they didn't interest me one bit and I didn't care. Then I saw Tokyo School Life, If My Heart Had Wings etc, and they interested me enough to consider them on sale.

Christmas time they're on sale, I purchase without regret, because they were much more convenient to buy from Steam and I trusted Steam more, and now here I am. Willing to buy from MangaGamer and what not. ^_^

So surely the difference you're talking about between me as the 'customer' and a developer are irrelevant? Or in fact pretty much the same thing, as putting a game on Steam worked in favour for them since I purchased games from Steam, and then once I realised they were cut, I stopped purchasing on Steam and started buying from the official channels, like I did with Euphoria the other day.

Honestly Steam is a pretty big deal for developers, no doubt about it. It holds a large amount of customers that game developers can reach out to, I'm pretty grateful VN's were released to Steam, and I honestly hope that one day Steam will be more lenient and let all different types of VN's without cut content to be released on the platform, because I'd feel more comfortable and prefer to purchase from Steam than other sites since that's where I've been buying most of my games from for years.

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13 minutes ago, Forgetful Frank said:

Ehh, I don't understand what you mean exactly about thinking like a customer and a developer. Surely thinking as a developer/publisher, you want your game/product to be seen by as much people as possible. I know for a fact, that if none of those games were on Steam in the first place, the chances of me ever finding this community or even playing a VN were VERY slim. I mean, I've been gaming for most of my life, and I'm on my computer playing games most of my personal time, and not once in all these years of gaming, I ever stumbled across a VN that made me want to play more and explore more of its genre. I played Katawa Shoujo once years ago, but only because it was free and I can't really remember how I found it, I think a college friend suggested it, and I only ever played one route and was satisfied to not play anymore. But I wasn't prepared to go out of my way and purchase a VN, 1) because I didn't really know what sites to purchase from and honestly I didn't really trust any or feel comfortable with entering bank information on unfamiliar sites. 2) VN's are pretty pricey in some cases, especially if you're going to order internationally. So I just never bothered because it felt like such a pain. Fast forward to now where VN's are being put on Steam, I saw the Sakura games and they didn't interest me one bit and I didn't care. Then I saw Tokyo School Life, If My Heart Had Wings etc, and they interested me enough to consider them on sale.

Christmas time they're on sale, I purchase without regret, because they were much more convenient to buy from Steam and I trusted Steam more, and now here I am. Willing to buy from MangaGamer and what not. ^_^

So surely the difference you're talking about between me as the 'customer' and a developer are irrelevant? Or in fact pretty much the same thing, as putting a game on Steam worked in favour for them since I purchased games from Steam, and then once I realised they were cut, I stopped purchasing on Steam and started buying from the official channels, like I did with Euphoria the other day.

Honestly Steam is a pretty big deal for developers, no doubt about it. It holds a large amount of customers that game developers can reach out to, I'm pretty grateful VN's were released to Steam, and I honestly hope that one day Steam will be more lenient and let all different types of VN's without cut content to be released on the platform, because I'd feel more comfortable and prefer to purchase from Steam than other sites since that's where I've been buying most of my games from for years.

i'm also a gamer, unlike you i study the game design before scammers and steam overpopulate the internet so dont play that "i know games" card. the reason you didnt find vn is because you were not interested in them, its all about the mind, in your lifetime of gaming you are told that there were only action games, puzzle games, shooter ups, rpg, card game, and classic games. i'm not blaming you for not knowing about vn, the job to make vn popular in the west has always been difficult since not many people consider it has a game. now in this new era, we have tools to make vn popular but its starting to get messy which can lead to people misleading a vn game. you cant read their minds, no one can, why they brought a vn is up to them. just like buying a book, you know its a story but why did they pick that story, its there teste in the novel, telling people to read it or force them is against everything we worked.

yet you are comfortable with steams agreements about never owning the game, forcing you to download the application, not getting refunds within certain reasons, a company known to be sued by 2 countries, and the company who is known to never releasing half life 3.

this proves why vn are way different than a standard game, you pick that game because it interest you. if a book you like is interesting you buy it, you dont care if its hardcover or digital (well theres topics but thats for a later time), you want to read it. what you saw its just a small store of vn, elsewhere in japan there is a huge store with physical copies (some digital i think) and its basicly the same has a book store. you cant say a company is helping vn in the west because thats not at all what we should be focusing on.

steam doesn't offer anything special for developers, the deals you got are something the developers are willing to do. they been peer pressured into thinking steam is better, greenlight is worth it, news coverage, payouts, fans joining, everything. you see how crazy it sounds even from me, its the same like taking a drug pill, it will boost your muscle, better eyesight, relaxation, smarter, faster, youth. do you see the similarities, they are both peer pressure. the reality is that steam is a website, the developer got an audience that wants to play the game but cant because peer pressure.

a real life story and how it ruin them:

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/StevenHonders/20151228/262752/The_consequences_of_failure

 

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29 minutes ago, firecat said:

:salt:

"dont play that "i know games" card"

I never said anything about me knowing games, and I think you've taken something I said a little too personally? :nervous:

I only said that I as a potential customer, was successfully brought into liking the VN genre and community successfully, by a VN being released on Steam.

Bottom of the line is though, without Steam, I wouldn't have been able to play an actual high quality VN with a budget and gotten into VN's, because they can be pretty difficult to obtain in the west (legally) from a widely-known trusted source. I don't put in payment details in any site I come across.

Your main point in this thread has been advocating Steam isn't anything special, when in fact it really is. Simply looking at the Steam Statistics shows that more than 10 million people have been logged into Steam within the last 48 hours.

If you're going to sit there and tell me and everyone else that Steam isn't important for developers and publishers in putting there games on that platform holding 10 million active potential customers on a daily basis, I can't take you seriously.

You magically pulled out me playing the "I know games" 'card' (when I didn't), but in actuality I believe it's you who is playing the "I'm a game designer/developer" 'card'. I don't think studying game design magically makes you know absolutely everything there is about it. In my time at college, I had a short course module on Game Design that was designed to give you a basic understanding in coding simple games made from flash and even take you into Uni to continue if you wanted to learn more about it, and I still know nothing about game design. One thing's for sure though, knowing game design and knowing your customer-base isn't the same thing.

To me, it's obvious a platform home to 10 million regular active customers is a goldmine for a developer/publisher wanting to sell their games.

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2 hours ago, Forgetful Frank said:

"dont play that "i know games" card"

I never said anything about me knowing games, and I think you've taken something I said a little too personally? :nervous:

I only said that I as a potential customer, was successfully brought into liking the VN genre and community successfully, by a VN being released on Steam.

Bottom of the line is though, without Steam, I wouldn't have been able to play an actual high quality VN with a budget and gotten into VN's, because they can be pretty difficult to obtain in the west (legally) from a widely-known trusted source. I don't put in payment details in any site I come across.

Your main point in this thread has been advocating Steam isn't anything special, when in fact it really is. Simply looking at the Steam Statistics shows that more than 10 million people have been logged into Steam within the last 48 hours.

If you're going to sit there and tell me and everyone else that Steam isn't important for developers and publishers in putting there games on that platform holding 10 million active potential customers on a daily basis, I can't take you seriously.

You magically pulled out me playing the "I know games" 'card' (when I didn't), but in actuality I believe it's you who is playing the "I'm a game designer/developer" 'card'. I don't think studying game design magically makes you know absolutely everything there is about it. In my time at college, I had a short course module on Game Design that was designed to give you a basic understanding in coding simple games made from flash and even take you into Uni to continue if you wanted to learn more about it, and I still know nothing about game design. One thing's for sure though, knowing game design and knowing your customer-base isn't the same thing.

To me, it's obvious a platform home to 10 million regular active customers is a goldmine for a developer/publisher wanting to sell their games.

yep you ignore my article link, vn are hard to come across yes but you are being native about how this works. if there are only 3 companies that offer vn in english, what would happen if all 3th stop supporting it. thats right you get nothing, relying on a few companies because "actual high quality VN with a budget" is considered risky they even know it, why do you believe sakurai project is doing all these kickstarters. none of them are rich, if they were they could have gotten the vn without user's help, steam did not help bring vn to you, it was us with the money. if we didnt fund them it would mostly sakurai project would just not had made vn. they wouldn't even be in steam if it wasnt for us, so no steam did not help at all, you fail to see that.

steam statistics are fake, 10million people? you means 4 million in the usa, 3 million in the world (time zone) and 3 million are dead or inactive accounts. you know another fake statistics, these:

http://world.time.com/2011/05/24/damn-statistics-top-five-false-figures-that-mean-we-get-the-world-wrong/

http://www.darkorbit.co.uk/ - Registered: 92,574,314

http://www.seafight.com/ - REGISTERED:47,307,980

over 100 million players -

 

lots of players to play (dead forum) - http://mabinogi.nexon.net/

[sarcasm] oh wow these games are way popular than steam platform, it looks like you are wasting time on steam, you could have found a friend or a girlfriend with 100 members. [/sarcasm]

there are many fake game design classes, learning how to code is just the starting line. here is a video on game schools and with over 276 advice on gaming, they should explain this better:

 

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Erogamer said:

I like Steam, but not when a localizing company uses it to sell only the all ages versions of visual novels and does not bother with the Adult version. By the way, I learned of visual novels from youtube  and this site.

Well remember, Steam does have a policy about distribution of what might be considered pornography. Since a lot of VNs tend to have erogi, ecchi, etc. Steam isn't going to allow distribution of the adult versions. Most companies will offer a patch to restore the h-scenes on the back-end. Just the cost of doing business with the most recognizable internet site for games.

Which is pretty much why Steam gets used. Unless you're EA or some other game company with a huge worldwide presence and a marketing department of suits, Steam is fairly essential to getting your game out there at a reasonable cost. And heck, even big companies still use Steam as part of their releases, which just shows the value of having it.

It's better to be on a central place that everyone knows to gain any chance at larger exposure. Think American Idol - would Kelly Clarkson be anywhere today had she not won that gawdawful tv show contest? Probably not. Would Clannad be anywhere in the US with a true translation instead of a fan patch without Steam? Probably not - who would distribute it? A virtually unknown-to-Americans Japanese gaming company?

I don't think Steam can really fall under the title of "Just Another Website" until you can name 9 more similar websites that deliver the same impact as Steam does.

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3 hours ago, firecat said:

yep you ignore my article link, vn are hard to come across yes but you are being native about how this works. if there are only 3 companies that offer vn in english, what would happen if all 3th stop supporting it. thats right you get nothing, relying on a few companies because "actual high quality VN with a budget" is considered risky they even know it, why do you believe sakurai project is doing all these kickstarters. none of them are rich, if they were they could have gotten the vn without user's help, steam did not help bring vn to you, it was us with the money. if we didnt fund them it would mostly sakurai project would just not had made vn. they wouldn't even be in steam if it wasnt for us, so no steam did not help at all, you fail to see that.

No, it was not us, but the programmers, writers, artists,...working behind the scene that brought us the vn.

Are you confusing Steam and Kickstarter or what? Steam, after all, is just an digital game store. They can only help with selling and PR the completed game. The process of making the game, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with them. So why are you blaming Steam?

Oh btw, I knew about most of the vn's Kickstarter from Steam Greenlight, rather than other sources.

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2 hours ago, Valmore said:

Well remember, Steam does have a policy about distribution of what might be considered pornography. Since a lot of VNs tend to have erogi, ecchi, etc. Steam isn't going to allow distribution of the adult versions. Most companies will offer a patch to restore the h-scenes on the back-end. Just the cost of doing business with the most recognizable internet site for games.

Which is pretty much why Steam gets used. Unless you're EA or some other game company with a huge worldwide presence and a marketing department of suits, Steam is fairly essential to getting your game out there at a reasonable cost. And heck, even big companies still use Steam as part of their releases, which just shows the value of having it.

It's better to be on a central place that everyone knows to gain any chance at larger exposure. Think American Idol - would Kelly Clarkson be anywhere today had she not won that gawdawful tv show contest? Probably not. Would Clannad be anywhere in the US with a true translation instead of a fan patch without Steam? Probably not - who would distribute it? A virtually unknown-to-Americans Japanese gaming company?

I don't think Steam can really fall under the title of "Just Another Website" until you can name 9 more similar websites that deliver the same impact as Steam does.

why didnt you read the example one page 1, oh well here are your 9 examples:

itch.io -the same but moblie games, browser games, ad-free expernace, and yes it has a client (you got ownd steam)

Amazon - you can also add browser and mobile games.

IndieGameStand - you can also add mobile games

Your website - you can add anything on your website even console download (yes people can and had done that).

Microsoft and itune store - yes microsoft copy apple, so basicly windows or mac download and you can download mobile games for that company.

gog.com - pc download and yes it has a client.

Desura - pc download and it has a client

overkill time ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

gamergate.com - pc download with moblie support.

gamestreamer.com - pc download

shockwave.com - pc download

bigfishgames.com - pc and moblie games

finish him ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

indiedb.com - helps get the word out!

tumblr_ncvkcjCDG31sodwato1_400.gif

1 hour ago, Satsuki said:

No, it was not us, but the programmers, writers, artists,...working behind the scene that brought us the vn.

Are you confusing Steam and Kickstarter or what? Steam, after all, is just an digital game store. They can only help with selling and PR the completed game. The process of making the game, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with them. So why are you blaming Steam?

Oh btw, I knew about most of the vn's Kickstarter from Steam Greenlight, rather than other sources.

why u no read, i never blame steam. people in the vn community help make it possible to create the vn and placed it on steam. there is no evidence that greenlight played a role in helping create many titles that sakurai project uploaded. following the news from the companies through steam doesn't count, thats not what the topic is about.

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