Darklord Rooke

Releasing this as a non-adult title will likely improve sales, especially if it gets on Steam (although I'm not convinced Steam will allow it).  IF it gets on Steam, there's no doubt they made the right business decision.
 
That doesn't make me happy about this.  But the fact of the matter is that the Western eroge market exists in a bubble that's barely sustaining itself.  Despite tens of thousands of fans (>60,000 registered on VNDB alone), the actual customer base is tiny (even popular titles often don't even reach 2000 sales).  The market has gotten so rotten that run-of-the-mill nukige outsell even high-profile story-centric eroge.  What message do you think that sends to VN localization companies?
 
What we're seeing is a glimpse into the future of the VN market: a future where localization groups splinter along nukige and all-ages lines, leaving story-focused eroge fans out to dry.  And I'm not happy about it.  Story-focused eroge fans should see this as a warning: voices without money behind them will fall on deaf ears.
 
As for me: I won't be supporting this release unless the H-scenes are officially reinstated.  Which won't happen.  Once you side with the moral majority, there's no turning back.

This is a fun idea! It'll be a fun competition and will let us jazz out the joint for holidays, etc. Changing the logo is a breeze. The dimensions are, currently, 354px by 90px.
 
Anybody have ideas for the first competition? Best summer banner?
 
Also, I'd suggest we move this thread to the Improvements board. Of course, I'll wait for Batman's permission before doing so -- can't have him going off about the tyranny of the staff, again.

We've had Mare for a while now, and I was thinking we could change it up every so often by allowing members of the forums to submit and vote for which character they would like to grace the Fuwanovel banner. Every 2-3 months, a staff member could open a thread for user submitted banners, and then users would vote for their favorite. The winning banner would then be used for the next 2-3 months. A stipulation could be that the same character may not be used back to back banner periods. 
 
Also part of the request, providing users the option to remove character banners entirely and simply using the regular Fuwanovel logo (ie. pre- Mare banner). 

Good to see you Naomi-san :3
 
For the record, Rooke agrees with everything Naomi said

Hey everybody,
 
Almost 90 posts! If you feel like this discussion has been going round-and-round in circles, then you should be glad you weren't party to the 2012 and 2013 discussions -- the first back-and-forth we had on Fuwanovel about hosting localized games had >200 replies and, if I remember right, was deleted. I still have minor PTSD thinking about it.
 
Let's all take a step back and look at this thread for a minute. We'll notice that there are many well-thought-out and well-presented arguments on both sides. We'll also notice that almost nobody has been swayed from one side to the other. Please allow me to state the obvious: This is a point of disagreement, and the two arguments aren't going to be reconciled no matter how long we go on. 
 
I tend to see this as a good thing: it means that I don't need to get emotional about the debate, and I don't need to take it personally on any level. I suggest everybody deescalate emotionally from the conflict.
 
 
 
 
Let's start with Aaeru.
People like to channel Aaeru (especially in this argument) because many remember and think of her as a sort of ancient, canonized, ultimate authority. I was around and an admin when the Fuwanovel policies were being decided, and Aaeru and I talked several times about this issue.
 
On the one hand Aaeru was(/is) an extreme pirate: she hated copyright, hated the idea of intellectual property, and wanted to put all VNs up for pirating. She was a pirate through-and-through -- to the point of once sharing with me some Australian Pirate Party propaganda  .
 
Yet, on the other hand, as Fuwanovel administrators she and I spoke about this issue more than once, and every time we came to the agreement that it's in Fuwanovel's best interest not to host licensed games. Aaeru wavered from time to time, but the policy was solidified and codified when Aaeru's DC III project was crushed by Gangamamer. Some of you remember that happening. Aaeru was crushed and it took several weeks for her to recover. I remember the long conversation she and I had during the weeks she was away from the site, recovering.
 
Anybody who knew Aaeru knew that she was a pirate to her core. Those that served with her as staff (we still have a few of them around), including myself (a co-admin), however know that she recognized and codified our current policy. Fuwanovel doesn't host licensed games. We generally drop the games within a few months of their announcement -- so long as progress on the translation is being made. 
 
 
 
 
 
Now I'm going to try and cut to the heart of the matter
This specific topic has shown that it really doesn't matter how many good reasons we put down on paper for either side. Good arguments aren't going to persuade the other side off the wall. Time and time again this issue has put a real and painful strain on the community. I'm sad to say that I've lost multiple staff members to this issue -- many have resigned over it, and it kills me to say that some are threatening to leave over it again.
 
This topic has repeatedly caused distress to the community. That is why we have a policy -- to prevent confusion for members and staff alike; and to give clear direction as new situations arise. That's the reason why we make them. One of my roles is to make sure we aren't forgetting about the foundations of the site, and ensure that we stay true to them. Fuwanovel's policy is that we don't host licensed games on the site.
 
 
 
 
 
Brass Tacks
I've been discussing the actual logistics of this issue with the staff and we're currently discussing how to proceed. If the decision is to abide by our longstanding policy, then I want to assure the community that the torrents are not going to disappear overnight. There will be notice about the plan and clear communication. 
 
I've read this entire thread twice, and I've spent a lot of time ensuring that I understand points raised both here and in the staff forums. I want to assure everybody that your voices are heard, and the staff and I will value further points raised here.
 
At some point a decision must be made, however, and experience has taught me that there will be anger and hurt feelings regardless of what's chosen. I urge everybody to remember that we're all here for the love of a hobby, and that Fuwanovel's core is a respectful and friendly place to celebrate visual novels. This decision isn't the end of the world, and won't substantially change your Fuwanovel experience. I encourage everybody -- myself included -- to watch yourselves and your discourse and make sure we aren't being explosively hyperbolic in the aftermath.

Regarding FanTL rights, I don't think I ever saw any kind of license on TLWiki or statement that could work as license, so no, technically they neither did "give" it to anyone, nor allowed to use it or keep it or redistribute it. Copyright requires explicit statements about any kind of transfer of rights.
This research doesn't apply to undeveloped small-scale markets like translated VNs. Moreover music itself is entirely different business, with entirely different model of money flow.Piracy is doing very severe damage to VN sales, as known on example of MG releases. Once game is uploaded you-know-where, sales plunge to 0. If its not uploaded for several days, all that time sales keep high. So yes, people will buy VNs if no other options are available, and will pirate if pirating is possible, because of how this particular market is structured.

Indeed, that seems to be the case. However, it is also true that Aaeru wished to develop strong links with the English Visual Novel Community. She wished to aid with the production of visual novels in the West, and attempted to establish links with the English community back in 2012.
 
And from some of the crowd, we might be able to attract new talent to the creative side of things. ... The thing is, I know next to nothing about what the OELVN community need. I only know I want to promote their work and attract new people to join their ranks. ... I want to leverage that increase in popularity to attract more attention to VN creation. - Aaeru 2012
 
Her overall goals were not hidden, or questioned. She wanted to make VNs popular in the West, which meant popularising fan-tls, and OELVN creation. 2 sides of the coin. However, you cannot aid in the production of visual novels with such a sloppy attitude regarding copyright. It was a lesson she quickly learnt two years ago, creators of works largely have different expectations and viewpoints than consumers. It was why her efforts were rebuffed in 2012, and it is why no progress has been made on that front in the past two years.
 
Furthermore, it is an undeniable fact that the state of the visual novel industry in the west is in trouble, both here and in Japan (for different reasons obviously.) You cannot make visual novels popular in the West without having a visual novel industry in the first place. Anybody with such a wish would also be required to wish for the prosperity of such an industry. If you have no prosperous visual novel industry, you have no visual novels with which to spread. This requires funds, therefore to wish for visual novels to be popular in the West is to encourage the FINANCIAL SUPPORT of such an industry. Increasing the fanbase is only part of this, the other half is to encourage the fanbase to support the official developers. If you do only part of this, then you are lax in your duties.
 
Following Aaeru's wishes or goals doesn't mean following her method. I want what Aaeru wanted back in 2012, but her method was not the way to achieve this.
 
And this brings me to my next point.
 
 
That's a nice little anecdote, unfortunately I don't roll with anecdotes. I roll with facts and figures. All I see from the fan-tl community whenever this issue arises is the tired argument that an expanding fanbase will mean an increase in sales. Well, let's look at the facts, shall we?
 
The fanbase has expanded exponentially from where it used to be, but where's the pay-off we've been promised? The influx of 'true fans'? JAST doesn't sell enough copies to remain afloat without being propped up by J-List. MG can barely sell enough to keep it's doors open, and the only way they can acheive this is to release a ton of nukige that only take a few weeks to translate for quick dough. They've had to resort to pleading with the fan-tl community to wait a couple of weeks before uploading cracked copies online, because as soon as you guys do their sale figures plummet. The truth of the matter is the vast majority of the VN community still can't be bothered to support the industry. And you are part of the problem Steve, because you don't actively encourage the final step. You automatically assume that expanding the fanbase will result in a flock of new fans willing to buy the product. Well, there's jack all evidence to support this. It's a naive point of view. If half the people who downloaded and enjoyed the damn game would pay for the product, the industry wouldn't be in the dire straits it is now. And maybe if you encourage the practice, more people would buy the game. 
 
Like I said before, MG's bestselling games were around 2,000 copies before STEAM. It took a DRM platform to move a respectable number of copies. 5 times as many copies as their previous best-selling game.
 
 
 
Welcome to reality Steve, where fairness and justice are playground illusions. There will never be a perfect solution for all, there will never be fairness for all, and if you think there can then you're naive.
 
The feelings of the creators who poured hundreds of hours into making the damn game, and the condition of the industry – an industry we all love, trumps the rights and feelings of those souls who want the game for free. Because at the end of the day, if we don’t encourage the financial support of such an industry, there’ll be fewer VNs for everybody. Then nobody gets their VN fix.

I support the idea.
 
Fuwanovel originally wanted to aid in the production and distribution of visual novels in the West. I can understand the theory of spreading around free VNs to build up the initial fanbase, but I get the feeling we've gotten past this stage. We have a fairly sizeable community, and VNs are getting more exposure than ever now they're appearing on Steam. If Fuwa ever wants to seriously aid in the production of VNs, and not just low-budget free ones, it will need to eventually support the official products.
 
Furthermore, the visual novel industry is struggling in Japan, and needs much support in the West. The industry needs funds to grow and we should be encouraging the purchase of such products when able.

Indeed, that seems to be the case. However, it is also true that Aaeru wished to develop strong links with the English Visual Novel Community. She wished to aid with the production of visual novels in the West, and attempted to establish links with the English community back in 2012.
 
And from some of the crowd, we might be able to attract new talent to the creative side of things. ... The thing is, I know next to nothing about what the OELVN community need. I only know I want to promote their work and attract new people to join their ranks. ... I want to leverage that increase in popularity to attract more attention to VN creation. - Aaeru 2012
 
Her overall goals were not hidden, or questioned. She wanted to make VNs popular in the West, which meant popularising fan-tls, and OELVN creation. 2 sides of the coin. However, you cannot aid in the production of visual novels with such a sloppy attitude regarding copyright. It was a lesson she quickly learnt two years ago, creators of works largely have different expectations and viewpoints than consumers. It was why her efforts were rebuffed in 2012, and it is why no progress has been made on that front in the past two years.
 
Furthermore, it is an undeniable fact that the state of the visual novel industry in the west is in trouble, both here and in Japan (for different reasons obviously.) You cannot make visual novels popular in the West without having a visual novel industry in the first place. Anybody with such a wish would also be required to wish for the prosperity of such an industry. If you have no prosperous visual novel industry, you have no visual novels with which to spread. This requires funds, therefore to wish for visual novels to be popular in the West is to encourage the FINANCIAL SUPPORT of such an industry. Increasing the fanbase is only part of this, the other half is to encourage the fanbase to support the official developers. If you do only part of this, then you are lax in your duties.
 
Following Aaeru's wishes or goals doesn't mean following her method. I want what Aaeru wanted back in 2012, but her method was not the way to achieve this.
 
And this brings me to my next point.
 
 
That's a nice little anecdote, unfortunately I don't roll with anecdotes. I roll with facts and figures. All I see from the fan-tl community whenever this issue arises is the tired argument that an expanding fanbase will mean an increase in sales. Well, let's look at the facts, shall we?
 
The fanbase has expanded exponentially from where it used to be, but where's the pay-off we've been promised? The influx of 'true fans'? JAST doesn't sell enough copies to remain afloat without being propped up by J-List. MG can barely sell enough to keep it's doors open, and the only way they can acheive this is to release a ton of nukige that only take a few weeks to translate for quick dough. They've had to resort to pleading with the fan-tl community to wait a couple of weeks before uploading cracked copies online, because as soon as you guys do their sale figures plummet. The truth of the matter is the vast majority of the VN community still can't be bothered to support the industry. And you are part of the problem Steve, because you don't actively encourage the final step. You automatically assume that expanding the fanbase will result in a flock of new fans willing to buy the product. Well, there's jack all evidence to support this. It's a naive point of view. If half the people who downloaded and enjoyed the damn game would pay for the product, the industry wouldn't be in the dire straits it is now. And maybe if you encourage the practice, more people would buy the game. 
 
Like I said before, MG's bestselling games were around 2,000 copies before STEAM. It took a DRM platform to move a respectable number of copies. 5 times as many copies as their previous best-selling game.
 
 
 
Welcome to reality Steve, where fairness and justice are playground illusions. There will never be a perfect solution for all, there will never be fairness for all, and if you think there can then you're naive.
 
The feelings of the creators who poured hundreds of hours into making the damn game, and the condition of the industry – an industry we all love, trumps the rights and feelings of those souls who want the game for free. Because at the end of the day, if we don’t encourage the financial support of such an industry, there’ll be fewer VNs for everybody. Then nobody gets their VN fix.

Indeed, that seems to be the case. However, it is also true that Aaeru wished to develop strong links with the English Visual Novel Community. She wished to aid with the production of visual novels in the West, and attempted to establish links with the English community back in 2012.
 
And from some of the crowd, we might be able to attract new talent to the creative side of things. ... The thing is, I know next to nothing about what the OELVN community need. I only know I want to promote their work and attract new people to join their ranks. ... I want to leverage that increase in popularity to attract more attention to VN creation. - Aaeru 2012
 
Her overall goals were not hidden, or questioned. She wanted to make VNs popular in the West, which meant popularising fan-tls, and OELVN creation. 2 sides of the coin. However, you cannot aid in the production of visual novels with such a sloppy attitude regarding copyright. It was a lesson she quickly learnt two years ago, creators of works largely have different expectations and viewpoints than consumers. It was why her efforts were rebuffed in 2012, and it is why no progress has been made on that front in the past two years.
 
Furthermore, it is an undeniable fact that the state of the visual novel industry in the west is in trouble, both here and in Japan (for different reasons obviously.) You cannot make visual novels popular in the West without having a visual novel industry in the first place. Anybody with such a wish would also be required to wish for the prosperity of such an industry. If you have no prosperous visual novel industry, you have no visual novels with which to spread. This requires funds, therefore to wish for visual novels to be popular in the West is to encourage the FINANCIAL SUPPORT of such an industry. Increasing the fanbase is only part of this, the other half is to encourage the fanbase to support the official developers. If you do only part of this, then you are lax in your duties.
 
Following Aaeru's wishes or goals doesn't mean following her method. I want what Aaeru wanted back in 2012, but her method was not the way to achieve this.
 
And this brings me to my next point.
 
 
That's a nice little anecdote, unfortunately I don't roll with anecdotes. I roll with facts and figures. All I see from the fan-tl community whenever this issue arises is the tired argument that an expanding fanbase will mean an increase in sales. Well, let's look at the facts, shall we?
 
The fanbase has expanded exponentially from where it used to be, but where's the pay-off we've been promised? The influx of 'true fans'? JAST doesn't sell enough copies to remain afloat without being propped up by J-List. MG can barely sell enough to keep it's doors open, and the only way they can acheive this is to release a ton of nukige that only take a few weeks to translate for quick dough. They've had to resort to pleading with the fan-tl community to wait a couple of weeks before uploading cracked copies online, because as soon as you guys do their sale figures plummet. The truth of the matter is the vast majority of the VN community still can't be bothered to support the industry. And you are part of the problem Steve, because you don't actively encourage the final step. You automatically assume that expanding the fanbase will result in a flock of new fans willing to buy the product. Well, there's jack all evidence to support this. It's a naive point of view. If half the people who downloaded and enjoyed the damn game would pay for the product, the industry wouldn't be in the dire straits it is now. And maybe if you encourage the practice, more people would buy the game. 
 
Like I said before, MG's bestselling games were around 2,000 copies before STEAM. It took a DRM platform to move a respectable number of copies. 5 times as many copies as their previous best-selling game.
 
 
 
Welcome to reality Steve, where fairness and justice are playground illusions. There will never be a perfect solution for all, there will never be fairness for all, and if you think there can then you're naive.
 
The feelings of the creators who poured hundreds of hours into making the damn game, and the condition of the industry – an industry we all love, trumps the rights and feelings of those souls who want the game for free. Because at the end of the day, if we don’t encourage the financial support of such an industry, there’ll be fewer VNs for everybody. Then nobody gets their VN fix.

Aaeru and Tay have talked about it before, Fuwa's main goal was to ultimately foster the production and distribution of visual novels in the west. Aaeru went so far as to approach the lemma website in 2012, with regards to creating a sister site solely for the development of english VNs. It's hardly a secret. 
 
It's with that goal in mind that I support the taking down of those torrents. Taking down the torrents from Fuwa WON'T decrease the piracy, but it's about if Fuwa wants to become what it originally set out to become. 
 
Referring to Steve's post, you can only fan-translate what is made. To say you encourage fan-translation without supporting companies is illogical to the extreme. Fan-translation can't EXIST without companies first making the product. And we're not sharing JUST the fan-translator's passion, you're sharing the creator's passion as well. 
 
You won't decrease the number of fan-tl's by taking down licensed works. 

Indeed, that seems to be the case. However, it is also true that Aaeru wished to develop strong links with the English Visual Novel Community. She wished to aid with the production of visual novels in the West, and attempted to establish links with the English community back in 2012.
 
And from some of the crowd, we might be able to attract new talent to the creative side of things. ... The thing is, I know next to nothing about what the OELVN community need. I only know I want to promote their work and attract new people to join their ranks. ... I want to leverage that increase in popularity to attract more attention to VN creation. - Aaeru 2012
 
Her overall goals were not hidden, or questioned. She wanted to make VNs popular in the West, which meant popularising fan-tls, and OELVN creation. 2 sides of the coin. However, you cannot aid in the production of visual novels with such a sloppy attitude regarding copyright. It was a lesson she quickly learnt two years ago, creators of works largely have different expectations and viewpoints than consumers. It was why her efforts were rebuffed in 2012, and it is why no progress has been made on that front in the past two years.
 
Furthermore, it is an undeniable fact that the state of the visual novel industry in the west is in trouble, both here and in Japan (for different reasons obviously.) You cannot make visual novels popular in the West without having a visual novel industry in the first place. Anybody with such a wish would also be required to wish for the prosperity of such an industry. If you have no prosperous visual novel industry, you have no visual novels with which to spread. This requires funds, therefore to wish for visual novels to be popular in the West is to encourage the FINANCIAL SUPPORT of such an industry. Increasing the fanbase is only part of this, the other half is to encourage the fanbase to support the official developers. If you do only part of this, then you are lax in your duties.
 
Following Aaeru's wishes or goals doesn't mean following her method. I want what Aaeru wanted back in 2012, but her method was not the way to achieve this.
 
And this brings me to my next point.
 
 
That's a nice little anecdote, unfortunately I don't roll with anecdotes. I roll with facts and figures. All I see from the fan-tl community whenever this issue arises is the tired argument that an expanding fanbase will mean an increase in sales. Well, let's look at the facts, shall we?
 
The fanbase has expanded exponentially from where it used to be, but where's the pay-off we've been promised? The influx of 'true fans'? JAST doesn't sell enough copies to remain afloat without being propped up by J-List. MG can barely sell enough to keep it's doors open, and the only way they can acheive this is to release a ton of nukige that only take a few weeks to translate for quick dough. They've had to resort to pleading with the fan-tl community to wait a couple of weeks before uploading cracked copies online, because as soon as you guys do their sale figures plummet. The truth of the matter is the vast majority of the VN community still can't be bothered to support the industry. And you are part of the problem Steve, because you don't actively encourage the final step. You automatically assume that expanding the fanbase will result in a flock of new fans willing to buy the product. Well, there's jack all evidence to support this. It's a naive point of view. If half the people who downloaded and enjoyed the damn game would pay for the product, the industry wouldn't be in the dire straits it is now. And maybe if you encourage the practice, more people would buy the game. 
 
Like I said before, MG's bestselling games were around 2,000 copies before STEAM. It took a DRM platform to move a respectable number of copies. 5 times as many copies as their previous best-selling game.
 
 
 
Welcome to reality Steve, where fairness and justice are playground illusions. There will never be a perfect solution for all, there will never be fairness for all, and if you think there can then you're naive.
 
The feelings of the creators who poured hundreds of hours into making the damn game, and the condition of the industry – an industry we all love, trumps the rights and feelings of those souls who want the game for free. Because at the end of the day, if we don’t encourage the financial support of such an industry, there’ll be fewer VNs for everybody. Then nobody gets their VN fix.

Indeed, that seems to be the case. However, it is also true that Aaeru wished to develop strong links with the English Visual Novel Community. She wished to aid with the production of visual novels in the West, and attempted to establish links with the English community back in 2012.
 
And from some of the crowd, we might be able to attract new talent to the creative side of things. ... The thing is, I know next to nothing about what the OELVN community need. I only know I want to promote their work and attract new people to join their ranks. ... I want to leverage that increase in popularity to attract more attention to VN creation. - Aaeru 2012
 
Her overall goals were not hidden, or questioned. She wanted to make VNs popular in the West, which meant popularising fan-tls, and OELVN creation. 2 sides of the coin. However, you cannot aid in the production of visual novels with such a sloppy attitude regarding copyright. It was a lesson she quickly learnt two years ago, creators of works largely have different expectations and viewpoints than consumers. It was why her efforts were rebuffed in 2012, and it is why no progress has been made on that front in the past two years.
 
Furthermore, it is an undeniable fact that the state of the visual novel industry in the west is in trouble, both here and in Japan (for different reasons obviously.) You cannot make visual novels popular in the West without having a visual novel industry in the first place. Anybody with such a wish would also be required to wish for the prosperity of such an industry. If you have no prosperous visual novel industry, you have no visual novels with which to spread. This requires funds, therefore to wish for visual novels to be popular in the West is to encourage the FINANCIAL SUPPORT of such an industry. Increasing the fanbase is only part of this, the other half is to encourage the fanbase to support the official developers. If you do only part of this, then you are lax in your duties.
 
Following Aaeru's wishes or goals doesn't mean following her method. I want what Aaeru wanted back in 2012, but her method was not the way to achieve this.
 
And this brings me to my next point.
 
 
That's a nice little anecdote, unfortunately I don't roll with anecdotes. I roll with facts and figures. All I see from the fan-tl community whenever this issue arises is the tired argument that an expanding fanbase will mean an increase in sales. Well, let's look at the facts, shall we?
 
The fanbase has expanded exponentially from where it used to be, but where's the pay-off we've been promised? The influx of 'true fans'? JAST doesn't sell enough copies to remain afloat without being propped up by J-List. MG can barely sell enough to keep it's doors open, and the only way they can acheive this is to release a ton of nukige that only take a few weeks to translate for quick dough. They've had to resort to pleading with the fan-tl community to wait a couple of weeks before uploading cracked copies online, because as soon as you guys do their sale figures plummet. The truth of the matter is the vast majority of the VN community still can't be bothered to support the industry. And you are part of the problem Steve, because you don't actively encourage the final step. You automatically assume that expanding the fanbase will result in a flock of new fans willing to buy the product. Well, there's jack all evidence to support this. It's a naive point of view. If half the people who downloaded and enjoyed the damn game would pay for the product, the industry wouldn't be in the dire straits it is now. And maybe if you encourage the practice, more people would buy the game. 
 
Like I said before, MG's bestselling games were around 2,000 copies before STEAM. It took a DRM platform to move a respectable number of copies. 5 times as many copies as their previous best-selling game.
 
 
 
Welcome to reality Steve, where fairness and justice are playground illusions. There will never be a perfect solution for all, there will never be fairness for all, and if you think there can then you're naive.
 
The feelings of the creators who poured hundreds of hours into making the damn game, and the condition of the industry – an industry we all love, trumps the rights and feelings of those souls who want the game for free. Because at the end of the day, if we don’t encourage the financial support of such an industry, there’ll be fewer VNs for everybody. Then nobody gets their VN fix.

Indeed, that seems to be the case. However, it is also true that Aaeru wished to develop strong links with the English Visual Novel Community. She wished to aid with the production of visual novels in the West, and attempted to establish links with the English community back in 2012.
 
And from some of the crowd, we might be able to attract new talent to the creative side of things. ... The thing is, I know next to nothing about what the OELVN community need. I only know I want to promote their work and attract new people to join their ranks. ... I want to leverage that increase in popularity to attract more attention to VN creation. - Aaeru 2012
 
Her overall goals were not hidden, or questioned. She wanted to make VNs popular in the West, which meant popularising fan-tls, and OELVN creation. 2 sides of the coin. However, you cannot aid in the production of visual novels with such a sloppy attitude regarding copyright. It was a lesson she quickly learnt two years ago, creators of works largely have different expectations and viewpoints than consumers. It was why her efforts were rebuffed in 2012, and it is why no progress has been made on that front in the past two years.
 
Furthermore, it is an undeniable fact that the state of the visual novel industry in the west is in trouble, both here and in Japan (for different reasons obviously.) You cannot make visual novels popular in the West without having a visual novel industry in the first place. Anybody with such a wish would also be required to wish for the prosperity of such an industry. If you have no prosperous visual novel industry, you have no visual novels with which to spread. This requires funds, therefore to wish for visual novels to be popular in the West is to encourage the FINANCIAL SUPPORT of such an industry. Increasing the fanbase is only part of this, the other half is to encourage the fanbase to support the official developers. If you do only part of this, then you are lax in your duties.
 
Following Aaeru's wishes or goals doesn't mean following her method. I want what Aaeru wanted back in 2012, but her method was not the way to achieve this.
 
And this brings me to my next point.
 
 
That's a nice little anecdote, unfortunately I don't roll with anecdotes. I roll with facts and figures. All I see from the fan-tl community whenever this issue arises is the tired argument that an expanding fanbase will mean an increase in sales. Well, let's look at the facts, shall we?
 
The fanbase has expanded exponentially from where it used to be, but where's the pay-off we've been promised? The influx of 'true fans'? JAST doesn't sell enough copies to remain afloat without being propped up by J-List. MG can barely sell enough to keep it's doors open, and the only way they can acheive this is to release a ton of nukige that only take a few weeks to translate for quick dough. They've had to resort to pleading with the fan-tl community to wait a couple of weeks before uploading cracked copies online, because as soon as you guys do their sale figures plummet. The truth of the matter is the vast majority of the VN community still can't be bothered to support the industry. And you are part of the problem Steve, because you don't actively encourage the final step. You automatically assume that expanding the fanbase will result in a flock of new fans willing to buy the product. Well, there's jack all evidence to support this. It's a naive point of view. If half the people who downloaded and enjoyed the damn game would pay for the product, the industry wouldn't be in the dire straits it is now. And maybe if you encourage the practice, more people would buy the game. 
 
Like I said before, MG's bestselling games were around 2,000 copies before STEAM. It took a DRM platform to move a respectable number of copies. 5 times as many copies as their previous best-selling game.
 
 
 
Welcome to reality Steve, where fairness and justice are playground illusions. There will never be a perfect solution for all, there will never be fairness for all, and if you think there can then you're naive.
 
The feelings of the creators who poured hundreds of hours into making the damn game, and the condition of the industry – an industry we all love, trumps the rights and feelings of those souls who want the game for free. Because at the end of the day, if we don’t encourage the financial support of such an industry, there’ll be fewer VNs for everybody. Then nobody gets their VN fix.

Indeed, that seems to be the case. However, it is also true that Aaeru wished to develop strong links with the English Visual Novel Community. She wished to aid with the production of visual novels in the West, and attempted to establish links with the English community back in 2012.
 
And from some of the crowd, we might be able to attract new talent to the creative side of things. ... The thing is, I know next to nothing about what the OELVN community need. I only know I want to promote their work and attract new people to join their ranks. ... I want to leverage that increase in popularity to attract more attention to VN creation. - Aaeru 2012
 
Her overall goals were not hidden, or questioned. She wanted to make VNs popular in the West, which meant popularising fan-tls, and OELVN creation. 2 sides of the coin. However, you cannot aid in the production of visual novels with such a sloppy attitude regarding copyright. It was a lesson she quickly learnt two years ago, creators of works largely have different expectations and viewpoints than consumers. It was why her efforts were rebuffed in 2012, and it is why no progress has been made on that front in the past two years.
 
Furthermore, it is an undeniable fact that the state of the visual novel industry in the west is in trouble, both here and in Japan (for different reasons obviously.) You cannot make visual novels popular in the West without having a visual novel industry in the first place. Anybody with such a wish would also be required to wish for the prosperity of such an industry. If you have no prosperous visual novel industry, you have no visual novels with which to spread. This requires funds, therefore to wish for visual novels to be popular in the West is to encourage the FINANCIAL SUPPORT of such an industry. Increasing the fanbase is only part of this, the other half is to encourage the fanbase to support the official developers. If you do only part of this, then you are lax in your duties.
 
Following Aaeru's wishes or goals doesn't mean following her method. I want what Aaeru wanted back in 2012, but her method was not the way to achieve this.
 
And this brings me to my next point.
 
 
That's a nice little anecdote, unfortunately I don't roll with anecdotes. I roll with facts and figures. All I see from the fan-tl community whenever this issue arises is the tired argument that an expanding fanbase will mean an increase in sales. Well, let's look at the facts, shall we?
 
The fanbase has expanded exponentially from where it used to be, but where's the pay-off we've been promised? The influx of 'true fans'? JAST doesn't sell enough copies to remain afloat without being propped up by J-List. MG can barely sell enough to keep it's doors open, and the only way they can acheive this is to release a ton of nukige that only take a few weeks to translate for quick dough. They've had to resort to pleading with the fan-tl community to wait a couple of weeks before uploading cracked copies online, because as soon as you guys do their sale figures plummet. The truth of the matter is the vast majority of the VN community still can't be bothered to support the industry. And you are part of the problem Steve, because you don't actively encourage the final step. You automatically assume that expanding the fanbase will result in a flock of new fans willing to buy the product. Well, there's jack all evidence to support this. It's a naive point of view. If half the people who downloaded and enjoyed the damn game would pay for the product, the industry wouldn't be in the dire straits it is now. And maybe if you encourage the practice, more people would buy the game. 
 
Like I said before, MG's bestselling games were around 2,000 copies before STEAM. It took a DRM platform to move a respectable number of copies. 5 times as many copies as their previous best-selling game.
 
 
 
Welcome to reality Steve, where fairness and justice are playground illusions. There will never be a perfect solution for all, there will never be fairness for all, and if you think there can then you're naive.
 
The feelings of the creators who poured hundreds of hours into making the damn game, and the condition of the industry – an industry we all love, trumps the rights and feelings of those souls who want the game for free. Because at the end of the day, if we don’t encourage the financial support of such an industry, there’ll be fewer VNs for everybody. Then nobody gets their VN fix.

Indeed, that seems to be the case. However, it is also true that Aaeru wished to develop strong links with the English Visual Novel Community. She wished to aid with the production of visual novels in the West, and attempted to establish links with the English community back in 2012.
 
And from some of the crowd, we might be able to attract new talent to the creative side of things. ... The thing is, I know next to nothing about what the OELVN community need. I only know I want to promote their work and attract new people to join their ranks. ... I want to leverage that increase in popularity to attract more attention to VN creation. - Aaeru 2012
 
Her overall goals were not hidden, or questioned. She wanted to make VNs popular in the West, which meant popularising fan-tls, and OELVN creation. 2 sides of the coin. However, you cannot aid in the production of visual novels with such a sloppy attitude regarding copyright. It was a lesson she quickly learnt two years ago, creators of works largely have different expectations and viewpoints than consumers. It was why her efforts were rebuffed in 2012, and it is why no progress has been made on that front in the past two years.
 
Furthermore, it is an undeniable fact that the state of the visual novel industry in the west is in trouble, both here and in Japan (for different reasons obviously.) You cannot make visual novels popular in the West without having a visual novel industry in the first place. Anybody with such a wish would also be required to wish for the prosperity of such an industry. If you have no prosperous visual novel industry, you have no visual novels with which to spread. This requires funds, therefore to wish for visual novels to be popular in the West is to encourage the FINANCIAL SUPPORT of such an industry. Increasing the fanbase is only part of this, the other half is to encourage the fanbase to support the official developers. If you do only part of this, then you are lax in your duties.
 
Following Aaeru's wishes or goals doesn't mean following her method. I want what Aaeru wanted back in 2012, but her method was not the way to achieve this.
 
And this brings me to my next point.
 
 
That's a nice little anecdote, unfortunately I don't roll with anecdotes. I roll with facts and figures. All I see from the fan-tl community whenever this issue arises is the tired argument that an expanding fanbase will mean an increase in sales. Well, let's look at the facts, shall we?
 
The fanbase has expanded exponentially from where it used to be, but where's the pay-off we've been promised? The influx of 'true fans'? JAST doesn't sell enough copies to remain afloat without being propped up by J-List. MG can barely sell enough to keep it's doors open, and the only way they can acheive this is to release a ton of nukige that only take a few weeks to translate for quick dough. They've had to resort to pleading with the fan-tl community to wait a couple of weeks before uploading cracked copies online, because as soon as you guys do their sale figures plummet. The truth of the matter is the vast majority of the VN community still can't be bothered to support the industry. And you are part of the problem Steve, because you don't actively encourage the final step. You automatically assume that expanding the fanbase will result in a flock of new fans willing to buy the product. Well, there's jack all evidence to support this. It's a naive point of view. If half the people who downloaded and enjoyed the damn game would pay for the product, the industry wouldn't be in the dire straits it is now. And maybe if you encourage the practice, more people would buy the game. 
 
Like I said before, MG's bestselling games were around 2,000 copies before STEAM. It took a DRM platform to move a respectable number of copies. 5 times as many copies as their previous best-selling game.
 
 
 
Welcome to reality Steve, where fairness and justice are playground illusions. There will never be a perfect solution for all, there will never be fairness for all, and if you think there can then you're naive.
 
The feelings of the creators who poured hundreds of hours into making the damn game, and the condition of the industry – an industry we all love, trumps the rights and feelings of those souls who want the game for free. Because at the end of the day, if we don’t encourage the financial support of such an industry, there’ll be fewer VNs for everybody. Then nobody gets their VN fix.

I'm not a fan with associating fan-translation with passion, and localisation with anti-consumer heartless corporatism. Supporting the localisation means more money goes to the creators, which means you're supporting THEIR passion. I do think supporting them is the more important ideal, especially considering the state of the industry.
 
EDIT: Of course supporting localisation doesn't mean you can't support fan-tls. Just when they clash, you support the localised copy.

I'm not a fan with associating fan-translation with passion, and localisation with anti-consumer heartless corporatism. Supporting the localisation means more money goes to the creators, which means you're supporting THEIR passion. I do think supporting them is the more important ideal, especially considering the state of the industry.
 
EDIT: Of course supporting localisation doesn't mean you can't support fan-tls. Just when they clash, you support the localised copy.

Aaeru and Tay have talked about it before, Fuwa's main goal was to ultimately foster the production and distribution of visual novels in the west. Aaeru went so far as to approach the lemma website in 2012, with regards to creating a sister site solely for the development of english VNs. It's hardly a secret. 
 
It's with that goal in mind that I support the taking down of those torrents. Taking down the torrents from Fuwa WON'T decrease the piracy, but it's about if Fuwa wants to become what it originally set out to become. 
 
Referring to Steve's post, you can only fan-translate what is made. To say you encourage fan-translation without supporting companies is illogical to the extreme. Fan-translation can't EXIST without companies first making the product. And we're not sharing JUST the fan-translator's passion, you're sharing the creator's passion as well. 
 
You won't decrease the number of fan-tl's by taking down licensed works. 

I'll chime in here, this at the very core is a Fuwan issue. It really defines what Fuwan is and should be something dealt with in a serious manner. Considering the track record until now, the best option is to remove the torrents since they are now licensed.

I support the idea.
 
Fuwanovel originally wanted to aid in the production and distribution of visual novels in the West. I can understand the theory of spreading around free VNs to build up the initial fanbase, but I get the feeling we've gotten past this stage. We have a fairly sizeable community, and VNs are getting more exposure than ever now they're appearing on Steam. If Fuwa ever wants to seriously aid in the production of VNs, and not just low-budget free ones, it will need to eventually support the official products.
 
Furthermore, the visual novel industry is struggling in Japan, and needs much support in the West. The industry needs funds to grow and we should be encouraging the purchase of such products when able.

Aaeru and Tay have talked about it before, Fuwa's main goal was to ultimately foster the production and distribution of visual novels in the west. Aaeru went so far as to approach the lemma website in 2012, with regards to creating a sister site solely for the development of english VNs. It's hardly a secret. 
 
It's with that goal in mind that I support the taking down of those torrents. Taking down the torrents from Fuwa WON'T decrease the piracy, but it's about if Fuwa wants to become what it originally set out to become. 
 
Referring to Steve's post, you can only fan-translate what is made. To say you encourage fan-translation without supporting companies is illogical to the extreme. Fan-translation can't EXIST without companies first making the product. And we're not sharing JUST the fan-translator's passion, you're sharing the creator's passion as well. 
 
You won't decrease the number of fan-tl's by taking down licensed works. 

DEMO IS UP! 
 
You can find it here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sekaiproject/fault-milestone-one-directors-cut/posts

With Sekai licensing both VNs, I believe it is time for Fuwanovel to remove both torrents as they are now easily in violation of the original policy of not hosting any licensed VNs. TL Wiki has already made their Grisaia patch unavailable, and I honestly think it would be a shame if Fuwanovel did not also do the same. 
 
If Fuwanovel really cares about making VNs popular in the West and helping the industry, it would be right to remove the torrent. Both VNs are now in the hands of Sekai to work with and Fuwanovel's responsibility with those novels should end here. 
 
 

Thats actually good news. The H scenes in Grisaia were shit and very disconnected. 


I wonder if Fuwanovel will actually remove its torrent now along with Planetarian to actually support the industry now.