Thoughts on Grisaia no Kajitsu [Spoilers]

[Down]

I was under the impression we had a bunch of Grisaia threads out there, but surprisingly I only found question threads and specific route threads. So yeah, yet another Grisaia thread to dump my thoughts on the game now that I’ve finished it.

 

I’m up for discussing all of that, of course. I didn’t go into the tiniest details, and I haven't read a lot of other opinions on the game yet, so feel free to post your own overall thoughts as well and confront mine with them.

 

Also, if a grammar nazi (Flutterz?) happens to read through this, a spell check round would probably help. Thanks Flutterz

 

/!\ Spoilers ahead /!\

 

My first contact with the VN was not very good, to be honest. I know, I should know what I get into, but having a protagonist the age of a high-school student with a hinted dramatic past and the abilities of a highly-trained military specialist kinda bothers me. Add to that the fact that he’s kinda showing off in the first few scenes and that he has a tendency to have an opinion about anything and everything and I wasn’t starting on a very good base with Yuuji.

 

Then there’s the heroines. Specifically making a school for students with “issues” is half explanation (which other games usually don’t bother with, admittedly) and half admitting a lack of realism in that every single girl in the VN has an incredibly fucked up past. Then again, know what you’re getting into. It’s part of the reader/author deal, and I’m the last person you’ll hear complaining about “lack of realism” (except on the very rare situations where it’s actually relevant). It IS irritating but I can’t consider that a factual mistake.

 

It all gets better really quickly, though.

As we all know, the common route is extremely funny and well done, and it’s a part of the VN where that’s mostly irreproachable. It was also the first step of getting me on better terms with Yuuji, the whole drill sergeant/sentou otaku act was great.

 

To that I would add that this common route fulfills a very important role. The purpose of a common route should be to get us to know the characters better, firstly so that we care about what happens when we enter a route, and secondly because it establishes a “prior” aspect of the personalities of the characters that will contrast with the character development that should occur later in the routes, making it all the more interesting.

Both are done very satisfyingly here, with hints of what will happen on the various routes being dropped here and there. It’s all the more crucial in Grisaia because Yuuji didn't know any of the girls before entering the school, so by the time we get into a route we should feel that a bond developed: the purpose of the common route is to make us feel like time is passing – while being careful to not bore the reader. Making of the common route a succession of funny slice of life scenes was a brilliant execution of this.

This is where you see the difference between fluff and bloat: I could not get enough of it, and it helped to build a foundation for the rest of the VN.

 

 

I did the routes as they came (Makina-Amane-Sachi-Michiru-Yumiko), which somehow seemed to make sense when I played. I remember little details that made me think “oh, having done this route before makes me have a different look on this”, but it’s more a feeling than a certainty. And it’s hard to know how it would have been had I have played them in a different order.

Makina’s route:

 

I found Makina’s route a little bit disappointing to be honest.

Admittedly, it probably has to do with the fact that I don’t like her character so much. I dislike how she acts like a kid to get people to spoil her, even though it’s entirely in-character, because she obviously craves for protection and lack a parental figure. I especially dislike it because of how she switches between this behavior and being foul-mouthed. But again, this is in the domain of personal opinion and I can’t call it a mistake.

 

What I think this route is lacking, and this is probably linked with my not liking Makina so much, is development for her character. Yuuji got character development, for sure. Several aspects of his personality are exposed. By the end of the route I actually liked him quite a lot. But Makina, not so much.
One of the important instances of Makina’s development in this route should be her opening to society by getting a part-time job, because we are told she is awkward around people. But that's precisely the issue: we never get to witness this supposed awkwardness first-hand. In fact I think her route is almost going backward: she is reduced to a girl with the behavior of a kid severely needing protection and a father figure.

A route is usually the moment where characters reveal themselves to be multifaceted, and we get to understand the reasons for those facets. After playing Makina’s route, I don’t have the impression that I know her any better.

 

Character matters aside, the story was rather solid, full of tension, action and emotion and with a good rhythm. Also, contrary to other routes, it wasn’t eaten up by Makina’s flashback. And the bad end manages to be disturbing, people ending crazy is among my favorite kind of bad end.

I can’t say I was thrilled but it was decent.

 

Please note that I haven’t yet read Rose’s huge analysis of that route, therefore my opinion on it could change - I might have missed some crucial details, considering how this route is usually hailed as the second best in the game.

Amane’s route:

 

Amane’s route is often considered the best of the route, and the main reason for that is definitely her flashback. Before that all we get is a bunch of sex scenes and after that, well it’s not entirely bad but it’s not exactly very exciting either. I really like the endings though.

 

But to get to this flashback. What can I say? It was a really well executed, if rather predictable, piece of work. I tend to have a hard time with « closed worlds » (English seems to be lacking an appropriate word to describe this genre) stories, but at the same time they are fascinating, as anything that involves people plunging into dementia, tensions breaking out in groups, and other phenomena happening when people suddenly have to live together while the world, the one they’re used to, breaks down around them.

 

Especially, it establishes a very uncomfortable atmosphere that makes even the reader uneasy, and the reader isn’t spared because everything is thoroughly described, and everything we expect to happen ends up happening.

An unmistakable sign of something that shook you quite a lot, even though you might not have thought so while reading, is how your mind wanders back to it in the days following the reading. This flashback is one of those marking moments of fiction.

 

Kazuki is irritating at first, but like her brother we end up somehow liking her. Her abilities are a bit too far-fetched to be credible, but having a character rationally analyzing the situation and predicting the outcomes is always a plus in such a situation. The story strongly hints at her being alive (and at a few other things), and the bad end of the route only serves to confirm this, so I expect to see her in the sequels. Tchekov’s gun would indicate she could be the famous « evil genius » kept in the caves of Ichigaya, but it seems a bit too obvious.

 

The part in the forest with the crazy hunter guy, as I said, can’t quite keep up with the sheer emotional impact of this.
That being said, the bad end is pretty interesting, and I really like the good end. Describing how time passes this way also has a strong emotional impact, although more of the heartwarming with a tad of bitterness kind. I had to shed a few tears.

 

This route is bit inconstant, because the flashback and the endings are excellent, but the rest is not extremely exciting, and a bit shakily written.

Sachi’s route:

 

Sachi’s route is the one I’d call the most « conventional » of all. Maybe the kind of story you would find in a Key VN. Which doesn’t mean it’s bad at all: it’s actually well executed and I liked it a lot.

 

Once again, the flashback makes up a huge chunk of it, but contrary to Amane’s route it doesn’t make the rest look pale in contrast.

The flashback clearly demonstrates what kind of demons Sachi has and how they came to be, as well as the reasons for her current dedication to obey any request to the letter. But the process of her getting rid of it was interesting too: an absurd and exaggerated behavior is met with an absurd and exaggerated solution.

 

In some sense it goes to show how easy it is to be so sucked into your own warped set of values, and that it takes pushing them to their utter limits to open your eyes. Of course it’s hyperbolic here ("wait, did they just blow up the entire fucking school?"), but it was still an interesting development.
It’s also interesting to note how Sachi’s parents are, obviously not the kind of monstrous people we sometimes get to see in VNs, but not an entirely functional and happy family either - Sachi’s parents love her, it’s evident, but they also have their own life and job to deal with. Maybe a little bit more perspective than usual.

 

I have to mention the bad end: it was a hastily written piece of trash. Seriously. It’s not a big mistake, because you can brush it aside as “just a bad end”, but I found it shockingly bad. I suppose it was tempting to pull an “irony of fate” kind of accident, but it’s all too quick and too unbelievable. Yuuji’s monologue after he sees Sachi dead is just nonsense.

 

On the other hand the good ending was very good. It’s a bittersweet ending, heartwarming by the intense affection between Sachi and her parents, and sad because they won’t ever see each other. I really like family values themes, and it hit exactly the right spot.

 

A very solid route.

 

Michiru’s route:

 

Michiru’s route was probably the most disappointing one. It had a lot of potential, and she’s a character that really clicked with me at first, too, so I was all the more disappointed to see how weak it turned out to be.
It seemed to me like this route could have talked about social awkwardness, about putting up a façade to avoid others, about running away when things are too difficult. She could have had genuine schizophrenia and it would have been extremely interesting.

 

Sadly that wasn’t the case. The first half of the route in particular was really bad: not only is it boring with mediocre drama and only a few funny scenes, Yuuji feels completely out of character in it. Or should I say without character, because it felt like he was replaced by some sort of blank slate.

 

It redeems itself afterwards: in the end, the flashback(s) (once again!) and the conclusion (though not all of it) were good. I especially liked the scene where she’s buried and ends up half crazy, talking with her other personality and seeing her friend on the roof in a very creepy way. Again, it would have been better had she genuinely had schizophrenia though. It feels like a glimpse of what that route should have been. The conclusion to all of that ends up being a bit bland.

 

Disappointed by the sheer wasted potential and the subpar writing, but it’s definitely not all good for trash.  

 

Yumiko’s route:

 

Surprisingly, I find myself with very little to say about this route, despite having played it last. It had resemblances with Makina’s route, for sure, the main differences coming from their very different personalities. In fact, Yumiko herself perhaps has the most « normal « personality in the group. But I liked it.

 

Mainly, what I can say is that her dere side was excellent. I found throughout the route and till the ending that it was very sweet. Nothing extremely original to be found in this story, especially after having played all the other routes: it doesn’t really stand out.

But maybe this is precisely why it felt so fitting as a finishing note. It has the thrills of the run like Makina’s route, a solid pacing and writing like Sachi’s, yet another dramatic flashback, and an extra serve of dere to top everything off. It only felt natural that at the end they would all get together to confront her father. (To be honest, I was secretly wishing they would go into a cliche scene where each girl uses her peculiarity to add to the confrontation)

 

---

The routes in Grisaia were, overall, fairly predictable, but that isn’t a flaw by itself since it’s not intended to be a twist story. They also tend to follow the same pattern, but thankfully not to the point of redundancy. There are quirks in the pacing, the writing and all that from time to time, but it rarely gets to the point where I can call it a hindrance to the quality. Which does make it a good visual novel.

 

The strengths of the game can probably be summed up by two points: a hilarious common route that fulfills the purpose of materializing bonds between the characters and between the characters and the reader, and routes packing emotions and character development.

I gave it a 8/10, if anyone cares.

Bonus stage: thoughts around the themes in Grisaia

 

What I mainly noted was how social anxiety/inaptitude was, to some extent, a recurring theme throughout the game.

 

Yuuji is a solitary character and is tremendously bad with women (although not in the usual way). He also has trouble accepting that he could live a normal life, and like many VN protagonists he has a (rather mild though) “hero complex” that pushes him to want to “protect” those around him no matter what.
Makina is presented as being overly shy toward strangers, and she obviously craves for protection and affection.
Amane is less affected, but much like Yuuji she has a hard time accepting that her life can be happy, and before she met Kazuki she used to be shy and introverted.
Sachi’s symptoms are a bit different, but she had very few friends when she was a kid, and now she hardly expresses any feelings.
Michiru was overwhelmed by social awkwardness when she was a kid, and even now she can hardly be called good at social interactions.
And Yumiko exhibits aggressive behavior to avoid others and is mostly solitary.

 

In some sense, the characters in Grisaia could be seen as hyperbolic figures. They are the way they are because they all have unbelievably tragic circumstances, and despite the life they lead at this special school mitigating those social troubles, deep down the issues still remain. They all experienced trouble with their parental figures (Yuuji, Makina, Yumiko, Sachi to some extent), the ugliest facets of society (Amane, Michiru, all of them at some point) and the depths of solitude.
But no matter how exaggerated the reasons can be here, the symptoms themselves, in milder forms, are extremely common.  

 

What’s also interesting is how they all have the same kind of reaction when originally faced with their issues: they « run away » and put a « facade » personality.

 

This is most obvious in Michiru’s and Sachi’s cases. Michiru literally ran away from her own body when faced with a situation she can’t deal with, yielding it to a different personality (which is also why it would have been much more interesting if her other personality had been born from her social anxiety). Sachi is very interesting: she puts her « good girl » face on systematically and by pushing it way past reasonable limits she demonstrates the limits and dysfunctionality of her solution.
But it’s also the same with the other girls: Amane and her decision to become a « convenient girl », Makina and her kid act, and Yumiko and her aggressive behavior.

 

The VN tends to show how that solution can become a problem in and of itself, and that it isn’t the only viable option. Instead of running away, face your problem, be it a confrontation with the parental figure (Yumiko, Makina, Sachi), accepting yourself (Amane, Sachi) or something more abstract.

 

Say “thank you”, not “I’m sorry”: this sentence, which comes up a lot during Yumiko’s route, but is also said by Kazuki to Amane, is pretty meaningful in my opinion. « I’m sorry » is running away. It’s hiding behind a word that you force onto others, and neglecting the bonds you have with them. Being grateful is recognizing these bonds, and those can save you (which is evident Yumiko’s or Michiru’s cases for example, since their redemption really comes through the group, even if Yuuji plays a prominent role).

 

 

This is how I like to interpret the story, especially because those are themes that interest me, but surely there are other directions to take. I’m thinking in particular about the political views of the author which transpires throughout the game, through Yuuji’s ramblings and the existence and description of Ichigaya. I don’t have that many ideas nor the will to develop it though, and I lack the political culture to tackle it. But that’s something to think about.

 

With all this said, I think it’s time to end this post. Actually, congratulations if you read all of that >_>

[Flutterz]

Well, since you asked so nicely...

[nohman]

I enjoyed reading that. A lot of your thoughts align similarly with my my impressions.

 

I too found myself disappointed with Makina's route, even more so because I liked her character. Yuuji's arc and the interoffice politics did offset her lack of development for me, plus parts of the fluff at the beginning of her route was decently amusing. Still, I unfortunately had the expectation that it was going to be the second best route and it falling far from that left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I'm just now in the middle of Michiru's route (my last one), but I have a feeling that Amane's going to remain my favorite. Both of her endings affected me quite a bit. Her good ending had a number of nuances that I could respect and I liked how her difficulties, self-loathing, and guilt didn't get tidily fixed and wrapped up. Apart from the absurdity of her kicking it after receiving a ticket to heaven and the extraordinary characters and setting of the story, it ended on a realistic note. Her bad end had me in tears, with half a grin plastered on my face at how badass her death was.

 

And of course, Angelic howl was the overall highlight of the route (and probably even the game for me). I did sort of see all the developments coming though, but that didn't detract from the experience.

 

What ended up being your favorite route?

[Down]

What ended up being your favorite route?

I don't have one really shining above the others.

 

Amane's obviously left the strongest impression, but the best in terms of writing and being good throughout the whole route was definitely Sachi. And sweetest was Yumiko's.

So maybe Sachi's? But I can't really elect one for sure.

 

 

brb grammar naziing

Counting on you

[Kaguya]

My probelm with Sachi's route is that I'd definitely find a way to exploit her condition instead of trying to "solve the problem". Couldn't really enjoy it that much. The reason I liked Makina was also because she didn't get much character development, I liked the way she was right off the bat and would probably dislike it if she changed too much.

 

Well, you had some interesting thoughts about it. Amane, Michiru and Yumiko annoyed me as hell, but I reeeeeeally liked Yuuji. It's kinda like Kaminomi, you don't watch that for the heroines, it's all about Keima. I liked Yuuji right off the bat and the best character of that VN was definitely him. The heroines could just be faceless placeholders to get more Yuuji, for all I care~

[Down]

Amane, Michiru and Yumiko annoyed me as hell, but I reeeeeeally liked Yuuji. It's kinda like Kaminomi, you don't watch that for the heroines, it's all about Keima. I liked Yuuji right off the bat and the best character of that VN was definitely him. The heroines could just be faceless placeholders to get more Yuuji, for all I care~

Well, that's understandable. What I dislike is the archetype associated with Yuuji's character, but my dislike was really quickly overturned. I even came to really enjoy his ramblings where he gives away his opinion about stuff at the beginning of a lot of scenes oO And he was kinda genuinely badass on several occasions too. For a protagonist like that, it's actually a feat.

 

But apart from some specific cases (which are sadly 70% of all the protagonists ever) I rarely ever dislike a character, so I focused quite a lot on the heroines themselves rather than Yuuji.

[nohman]

I don't have one really shining above the others.

 

Amane's obviously left the strongest impression, but the best in terms of writing and being good throughout the whole route was definitely Sachi. And sweetest was Yumiko's.

So maybe Sachi's? But I can't really elect one for sure.

 

I really liked Sachi's route as well. It was well paced and it maintained a consistent quality. I liked her flashback, it was nice catching a glimpse of kid Yuuji. Since I read it before Makina's and Amane's routes, it added just the right touch of mystery about his home life and his sister leading into them . Another thing that stood out to me was the horrifying depiction of PTSD. I've heard people say it wasn't an unrealistic depiction. Her problem, above all the other girls, was depicted and emphasized the best I felt.

 

I didn't like how they presented the choice for the good or bad ending. Yuuji's cryptic ultimatum wasn't necessarily out of character, but it seemed like a needlessly pointless way to put it given the situation.  On top of that, the choice itself didn't seem that meaningful. Either one could lead to Yuuji giving her the key, but one just happened to put her at the right time to wander into the path of a car. There wasn't really a direct connection to the choice you made.

[Down]

 

I didn't like how they presented the choice for the good or bad ending. Yuuji's cryptic ultimatum wasn't necessarily out of character, but it seemed like a needlessly pointless way to put it given the situation.  On top of that, the choice itself didn't seem that meaningful. Either one could lead to Yuuji giving her the key, but one just happened to put her at the right time to wander into the path of a car. There wasn't really a direct connection to the choice you made.

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant about the bad end. Yuuji say something about how he should have done it another way and he would be bearing his failure for the rest of his life or something, but the choice that led to that end wasn't actually done by him, and in the other case it ends up all good. So it makes no sense at all. Not even mentioning how her ironically getting into a car accident right at that moment was way too unbelievable.

[madvanced]

Well I rambled about this before but Makina's route has only one major shortcoming, apart from her stupid move to get back the apple seedling, which was her good end. That can't possibly be a good end. One of the members of the couple is still wearing the collar, Makina is hinted to be breaking inside bit by bit even though she wants to fight it and Yuuji must feel like a corpse almost since he can't protect Makina anymore and that's what he wanted to do.

 

Michiru's was a good one in my opinion but went a bit too far with the cellular memory instead of going with a split personality that was a byproduct of her desire for escapism. Although Many people disliked it I liked her drama over Meowmel, since it showed her fear regarding any connection. Her choice was the worst simply because there was no probable cause and effect between them.

 

Sachi's was maybe the third best because of the sheer amount of though, concern and sometimes coldness needed to approach her problem. The, maybe exaggerated, way things proceeded was what made it memorable and fun to read. Her choice although not directly linked to her bad end in a physical way, you can say that if she chooses to kill herself instead of her image that she has of her mother, it could prompt her to literally die since Yuuji wasn't there for her at the hospital after her decision.

 

Yumiko's was a tad bit disappointing because I think they could have developed the power struggle between the fugitives and Yumiko's father a bit more. I would have liked a bit more confrontation other than the final one(excluding the good end epilogue). But Yumiko's character did make up for it, her deredere side was awesome so there's nothing to speak about there. it just felt like it lacked a bit of substance. it could have developed more in the grand scheme of things like Makina's route did, since it did have that potential. I mean it was Sakaki Michiaki's Zaibatsu for christ's sake.

 

Last but definitely not least, Amane's route was the best. Her introductory part including her non stop effort to do everything for Yuuji both in and out of the bedroom, might seem lacking(for lack of a better word) at first but after the always awesome Angelic Howl it makes so much sense what drove her to do that that it becomes a good part instead of the initial lacking feeling it gave. Also she had undoubtedly had the best bad end that gives hints for the sequels and makes use of Yuuji's characteristics. Many criticize the fact that the hunter came out of nowhere, but it is a plausible appearance, I mean there was abound to exists some animosity, even if unfounded, by at least one parent of any of the victims that died, also he only found out about her location after she was seen by that group that called her cockroach between themselves. It was the only route where I definitely didn't have any qualms what so ever. Also, her good end was one that me shed not so manly tears, the tone and the perception of the passage of time, were emotional, the way she described what and how it happened all the way through Yuuji's death to the final CG where a young Yuuji extends his and to the now dying  Amane as if to welcome her to their ever lasting reunion, just gave me goosebumps.

 

This is by no means an objective view on the game's routes, but it is what I feel about them. I didn't say anything about the common route because Down nailed it pretty well.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention Yuuji, for me he is the most likable MC ever. The way he is broken inside can be justified through his past while being realist in his own exaggeration of his perceptions of how everything happened, and although he has some power he can still be a realist, a cynical, a open-minded and dreamy person all at the same time, even if it seems contradicting. Yuuji as an MC deserves a 10/10.

[AMMSY]

 I liked Yuuji right off the bat and the best character of that VN was definitely him. The heroines could just be faceless placeholders to get more Yuuji, for all I care~

^^ this

 

Thou unlike you two I didn't like Makina, can't really pin point exactly why.. if it's her annoying way of talking or just her personality or something else entirely.. even the choice to get to her route feels wrong to me. Is it really right for him to take the money?

[Kaguya]

^^ this

 

Thou unlike you two I didn't like Makina, can't really pin point exactly why.. if it's her annoying way of talking or just her personality or something else entirely.. even the choice to get to her route feels wrong to me. Is it really right for him to take the money?

I'd definitely take the money. Hell, who would pass up on that much money, to begin with~

I like amoral characters in general, so I think Yuuji is too soft. He pretty much has two money fountains, a servant and two ignorable girls there.

[Rose]

It's always nice to see what people thought about things you both read, my analysis even got mentioned, much honor. 

 

People tend to complain about Sakashita's (the hunter) sudden appearance but they explained from where he came from, and come on, is it really that weird? People appear out of nowhere even in real life, it's not that uncommon. In fact, I think it's more of an unexpected event than a diabolus ex machina. Same for Nyanmel, I don't think it was over-dramatic, she was truly scared of forming bonds with others because she feared that kind of thing happening, that might have been the part with the greatest emotional impact in her route for me.

 

I also disliked Sachi's route bad/good ending choice, I ended with the bad one but in my mind, 'kill myself' would mean killing the she who saw her mother as the cause of her nightmares. And yeah, the bad end was literally bad, extremely rushed and in the end, it didn't even felt that bad, it was simply shallow. 

[Zenophilious]

^^ this

 

Thou unlike you two I didn't like Makina, can't really pin point exactly why.. if it's her annoying way of talking or just her personality or something else entirely.. even the choice to get to her route feels wrong to me. Is it really right for him to take the money?

Well, technically he's just keeping it safe for her, since she obviously has no real understanding of the value of money.  Remember the end of her route?  He hadn't spent any of it (in either her good or bad end), it's in a bank account for her.  I agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense, but if you think about it, he's doing it for her benefit.

 

Pretty much agree with everything you said, Down.  I disliked the ending of Michiru's route a little more than you mentioned, but we're different people, after all, so that's understandable.  When I got to Sachi's bad end, I started laughing (no joke) because of how absolutely absurd it was.  Didn't really have an emotional impact on me besides making me think, "Why is this even here?".  Loved her good end, though.  Completely made up for her rushed, random bad end.

 

As for the author's views on Ichigaya and other government groups similar to it, seems to me that while it's pretty extreme, it's probably not unrealistic.  They don't seem to care about the people that make it up, only long-term goals and politics.  Yuuji's self-hatred seems to have been caused by both his family circumstances and his homicidal tendencies, and working for Ichigaya doesn't seem to have helped his self-image very much.  JB is pretty much the only person there who gives a rat's ass about him, and even then, she's forced into helping her coworkers at Ichigaya hunt down and kill Yuuji.  Seems to me that the author(s) are trying to show that if you join those types of government groups, they'll use you up and discard you when you're no longer of any use.  Reminds me a lot of soldiers that came back from Iraq and Afghanistan, actually.  They're severely emotionally scarred afterwards, and while they might get financial help and access to programs, they're not of any real use to their country anymore, so the government doesn't care what they do.  Definitely not a good depiction of governments as a whole.  They use people, and when they're no longer of any value, they throw them away like they're trash.

[AMMSY]

 

I'd definitely take the money. Hell, who would pass up on that much money, to begin with~

I like amoral characters in general, so I think Yuuji is too soft. He pretty much has two money fountains, a servant and two ignorable girls there.

 

Wait are you saying that Amane + Michiru are ignorable? I thought Amane was one of the most liked characters..

 

Well, technically he's just keeping it safe for her, since she obviously has no real understanding of the value of money.  Remember the end of her route?  He hadn't spent any of it (in either her good or bad end), it's in a bank account for her.  I agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense, but if you think about it, he's doing it for her benefit.

 

Reminds me a lot of soldiers that came back from Iraq and Afghanistan, actually.  They're severely emotionally scarred afterwards, and while they might get financial help and access to programs, they're not of any real use to their country anymore, so the government doesn't care what they do.  Definitely not a good depiction of governments as a whole.  They use people, and when they're no longer of any value, they throw them away like they're trash.

 

First I'm sorry for the biased opinion on Makina but I never read her route. I'm a person who follows his heart first and it felt too wrong to me to read this moreover she didn't interest me as a person.

 

As for the soldiers from Iraq and Afghnistan, this happens to a lot of soldiers from any country - soldiers are property and the army can't afford to look at soldiers as human beings. You are an investment and expect to deliver your worth or they will find someone who can, why would any system invest on or take care of flawed machinery? 

[Zenophilious]

First I'm sorry for the biased opinion on Makina but I never read her route. I'm a person who follows his heart first and it felt too wrong to me to read this moreover she didn't interest me as a person.

 

As for the soldiers from Iraq and Afghnistan, this happens to a lot of soldiers from any country - soldiers are property and the army can't afford to look at soldiers as human beings. You are an investment and expect to deliver your worth or they will find someone who can, why would any system invest on or take care of flawed machinery? 

 

That's fine.  I'm not really into lolis, nor did I particularly love her character, but I read it anyway.  I only skip routes if I really hate the character, like I did with Isuzu from Hoshimemo.

 

Yeah, I don't doubt that it happens to soldiers in every country, it's just that, since I'm an American, I hear the most about American veterans.  The news reports about them more often because, sadly, we, as a country, don't seem to care that much about another country's veterans.  Logically, you're right, but governments can only look at things logically.  They can't see the emotional effects of their actions.  They can't see a veteran that is so scarred from war that he can't sleep in the same bed as his wife, or he'll try to kill her in his sleep because of the horrifying nightmares he relives every night.  They can't see how their soldiers struggle to even regain even the slightest amount of normalcy in their lives.  And they can't see just how hopeless life itself can look.

[AMMSY]

That's fine.  I'm not really into lolis, nor did I particularly love her character, but I read it anyway.  I only skip routes if I really hate the character, like I did with Isuzu from Hoshimemo.

 

Yeah, I don't doubt that it happens to soldiers in every country, it's just that, since I'm an American, I hear the most about American veterans.  The news reports about them more often because, sadly, we, as a country, don't seem to care that much about another country's veterans.  Logically, you're right, but governments can only look at things logically.  They can't see the emotional effects of their actions.  They can't see a veteran that is so scarred from war that he can't sleep in the same bed as his wife, or he'll try to kill her in his sleep because of the horrifying nightmares he relives every night.  They can't see how their soldiers struggle to even regain even the slightest amount of normalcy in their lives.  And they can't see just how hopeless life itself can look.

 

As a former soldier, I can tell you this: They absolutely know, the Army knows and acknowledges and actively deciding that this is the best course of action, the Army is not blind, you wishing that you'd rather die back there is nothing compared to the success of the mission.

[Zenophilious]

As a former soldier, I can tell you this: They absolutely know, the Army knows and acknowledges and actively deciding that this is the best course of action, the Army is not blind, you wishing that you'd rather die back there is nothing compared to the success of the mission.

Oh, I didn't say that they don't know it,  just that they can't see it.  It's one thing to make a decision without seeing the consequences of your actions, it's another to see the consequences and accept that you caused them to happen.  It's easier to take responsibility for something when you can't see the damage you caused.  Most people can't handle that.  The ones that can, and go on living without a problem, those are the ones you want to watch out for.

 

My personal views aside, however, the author(s) of Kajitsu are obviously very critical of government groups like Ichigaya.

[madvanced]

Oh, I didn't say that they don't know it,  just that they can't see it.  It's one thing to make a decision without seeing the consequences of your actions, it's another to see the consequences and accept that you caused them to happen.  It's easier to take responsibility for something when you can't see the damage you caused.  Most people can't handle that.  The ones that can, and go on living without a problem, those are the ones you want to watch out for.

 

My personal views aside, however, the author(s) of Kajitsu are obviously very critical of government groups like Ichigaya.

 

Any government as a whole is considered an organism and if you weight the importance of the lives of a few people or the "life" the government thinks it should have, the "life" of the government will always out weight them in the government and the countries views. So they don't have any qualms in throwing away lives for that single purpose. I think that's what the Author tries to accomplish by his view on Ichigaya for the thoughts and morality of the average person it's an unthinkable evil, however we could also argue that it is a necessary evil since it does what the society at large cannot do. It may be somewhat of a cynical way of thinking but I can't put it in any other way.

[AMMSY]

Oh, I didn't say that they don't know it,  just that they can't see it.  It's one thing to make a decision without seeing the consequences of your actions, it's another to see the consequences and accept that you caused them to happen.  It's easier to take responsibility for something when you can't see the damage you caused.  Most people can't handle that.  The ones that can, and go on living without a problem, those are the ones you want to watch out for.

 

My personal views aside, however, the author(s) of Kajitsu are obviously very critical of government groups like Ichigaya.

 

Well we do get off track from the OP topic here, I'll just give just last piece of my mind: These systems are run by people, and they absolutely can see how their decision will effect their subordinates and the civilians around.  I was personally instructed to not engage enemy troops and let them attack other "expandable" troops. Do you think anyone, even a single person in the chain of command from the person who radio me the orders to the paper pushers sitting behind their desks, didn't know what this might effect the unlucky Rookies stationed there? I don't think so. It's just that the Intel that the enemy carried was worth more than these particular soldiers lives.

 

I had a buddy in a special ops, serious shit there thing I can't imagine going through - you think he didn't know what he was going to get through? He, the person who assigned him to this job, and his commander knew what this kind of job will probably do to him. this is a possibility that everyone involved are willing to take. putting aside that he was 18 at the time.

[Zenophilious]

Any government as a whole is considered an organism and if you weight the importance of the lives of a few people or the "life" the government thinks it should have, the "life" of the government will always out weight them in the government and the countries views. So they don't have any qualms in throwing away lives for that single purpose. I think that's what the Author tries to accomplish by his view on Ichigaya for the thoughts and morality of the average person it's an unthinkable evil, however we could also argue that it is a necessary evil since it does what the society at large cannot do. It may be somewhat of a cynical way of thinking but I can't put it in any other way.

Yeah, that seems about right.  You don't have to apologize for being cynical, man, I mean, look at what I just said  lol  It's kinda hard not to be cynical when you talk about governments.

 

I'm not saying that the goals of a nation should be ignored in order for a single life to be able to function normally, but I don't think you can justify the level of emotional and mental warping that takes place with "It was for the good of the nation".  I know that things like that need to be done, but I still don't think it's justified.

 

Well we do get off track from the OP topic here, I'll just give just last piece of my mind: These systems are run by people, and they absolutely can see how their decision will effect their subordinates and the civilians around.  I was personally instructed to not engage enemy troops and let them attack other "expandable" troops. Do you think anyone, even a single person in the chain of command from the person who radio me the orders to the paper pushers sitting behind their desks, didn't know what this might effect the unlucky Rookies stationed there? I don't think so. It's just that the Intel that the enemy carried was worth more than these particular soldiers lives.

 

I had a buddy in a special ops, serious shit there thing I can't imagine going through - you think he didn't know what he was going to get through? He, the person who assigned him to this job, and his commander knew what this kind of job will probably do to him. this is a possibility that everyone involved are willing to take. putting aside that we were 18 at the time.

Wow, that is some hard shit to hear.  I mean, I know that low-ranking soldiers are pretty much thrown at the enemy to keep them busy, and I know that it's basic tactics to keep your most valuable assets safe while striking at your enemy's, but Jesus Christ.  These are human lives we're talking about.  I know that I'd never be able to make those kinds of choices, and I'm glad that someone else is able and willing to step up to the plate, because we need people there to do that, but still.  Also, from what I do know about the military, they usually try to keep the higher-ups away from the people that they're going to be commanding so that they don't get too attached to them, seeing as how they might have to essentially send them to their deaths at some point.  Again, I know that they fully know the consequences of their actions, but it's a whole different thing to actually see the effects firsthand.  That's why a lot of military leaders don't get to know their troops.  The more impersonal they are, the better their mental health will be after it's all over.

 

I'm not trying to say that you're a horrible person for following orders, or that military commanders are inhuman monsters for issuing orders like that, it's just...focusing on the big picture, even when it's needed, has catastrophic effects on the people that work to make that big picture a reality.  It's one of the more morally grey areas of our society.

[AMMSY]

Wow, that is some hard shit to hear.  I mean, I know that low-ranking soldiers are pretty much thrown at the enemy to keep them busy, and I know that it's basic tactics to keep your most valuable assets safe while striking at your enemy's, but Jesus Christ.  These are human lives we're talking about.  I know that I'd never be able to make those kinds of choices, and I'm glad that someone else is able and willing to step up to the plate, because we need people there to do that, but still.  Also, from what I do know about the military, they usually try to keep the higher-ups away from the people that they're going to be commanding so that they don't get too attached to them, seeing as how they might have to essentially send them to their deaths at some point.  Again, I know that they fully know the consequences of their actions, but it's a whole different thing to actually see the effects firsthand.  That's why a lot of military leaders don't get to know their troops.  The more impersonal they are, the better their mental health will be after it's all over.

 

I'm not trying to say that you're a horrible person for following orders, or that military commanders are inhuman monsters for issuing orders like that, it's just...focusing on the big picture, even when it's needed, has catastrophic effects on the people that work to make that big picture a reality.  It's one of the more morally grey areas of our society.

 

The once in charge (aka the higher ups) were rookies before so again I absolutely refuse to believe that they are clueless about the emotional scars these kind of things leave you. and yes you are not wrong about the structure of the interactions,  the only people I regularly saw was two "levels" up including occasionally appearing of some higher ups then them, which I personally didn't talk to even.

 

And although I can't argue that I'm not a horrible person for doing a lot of other things, after this particular incident I was dishonorably discharged for eventually a sum of about 97 charges including "abusing orders" (might not translating it to English well, basically not doing what you told) "disrespect for command" and "mutiny". Can't say the months in jail were fun but I regret nothing I did to fight them.

 

Although to be honest, I want to believe they had a good reason. I didn't really know the reason for why I was ordered not to attack, I assumed it was Intel because that what always came to mind when I was looking back at it, I want to believe that I was really wrong for disobeying these orders.

 

Sorry I was a bit blabbering, I can't really talk about these stuff with others around me. Feels kinda nice to put it out there

[Tatsujin]

I liked all the routes. Michiru, Yummiko, Amane and Makina are really good. Sachi ... her arc was dry. Plain, dry, not as interesting in some parts and things kinda went the 'obvious' way about 'OH SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN' - meh. Makina's is essentially the "starter" chick to get people to understand who Yuuji really is. Amane's indirect relationship with Yuuji led the arc to know more about Yuuji's past and his sister. Amazing good ending and bitter-sweet-sad bad ending. Her devotion speaks thoroughly in her bad ending. She's the only girl that did it anal with Yuuji and all her thoughts are but how to be as happy as possible with Yuuji - lots, and lots, and lots of sex. Her personality, behavior and house-wife like attachments are attractive. Sachi's direct relationship with Yuuji is really awesome. I caught her response to Yuuji in the beginning of their first interaction with each other during Yuuji's first day and how she was speaking to him more comfortable than normally - she used his nickname just like how she did when they were both childhood friends though Yuuji never realized it so she was a bit surprised and played along with Yuuji. Though the problem is how freaking dry her route is. Her good ending is my least favorite. If I would scale her good ending with the rest of the other girls, Sachi's would be at 3/5 while the other four girls stand at 5/5. What type of god-awful-boring good ending was that? Seriously. Michiru's was damn cool. I freaking liked her past, I loved it. I was thrilled to know she had a double personality. Her twists and the way she acts. How things unfolded and shit hit the fan pretty hard (awesome moments), the grave part, recovery and understanding her other personality and how it led to meet some unknown mother ... I really liked that scene a lot - plus the fact that she is the only character with two separate epilogue music. Yumiko's was short, but standing against a monster, how her past was like, her support to her mother, stupid grandparents, and other little factors that ultimately built her defensive personality was cool. I didn't like the idea of her "going out to do" the stupid drawings and how Yuuji just wanted to protect her. I mean, sure - the drawing events were cool ... but really? She needs to do that stupidity knowing she's in danger? Oh lets send Yuuji out, too. But what can I say ... teenagers are teenagers = not interesting. Everything else, including how she tried to jerk off Yuuji was cool. The good ending left me in awe moments. I actually replayed good ending twice (just the last parts). Her father's behavior and personality was perfectly executed. I replayed Amane's good ending twice as well.

Hmm, that's about it. See you guys in 2018 when we get the second VN translated, lmao.

[Flutterz]

"abusing orders" (might not translating it to English well, basically not doing what you told) 

The word you're looking for is "insubordination".

 

For the sake of this post not being completely off-topic, I really liked Sachi because I can totally understand trying to have to take as little responsibility for your actions as possible. I'm definitely not a leader, I'd rather have someone else take responsibility.

[Zenophilious]

Sachi ... her arc was dry. Plain, dry, not as interesting in some parts and things kinda went the 'obvious' way about 'OH SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN' - meh.

Mind elaborating a little more?  Not going all fanboy on you or anything, I'm just curious as to why you thought it was dry.  You only wrote one sentence as explanation as to why you didn't like it, so it's hard to get a grasp of what you mean.

 

The word you're looking for is "insubordination".

 

For the sake of this post not being completely off-topic, I really liked Sachi because I can totally understand trying to have to take as little responsibility for your actions as possible. I'm definitely not a leader, I'd rather have someone else take responsibility.

Flutterz, why must you take the words right out of my mouth?  lol

 

By the way, Down, I found a few minor mistakes when I was reading over it.  Here's what I found (changes are underlined and struck through):

"I know, I should know what I get into, but having a protagonist the age of a high-school student with a hinted dramatic past and

have the abilities of a highly-trained military            (operative? specialist? commando?) kinda bothers me."

"I remember little details that made me think “oh, having done this route before makes me have a different look on this”, but it’s more a feeling than a certainty, and it’s hard to know how it would have been would I have had I played this differently through the routes in a different order."

"It’s all the more crucial in Grisaia because Yuuji knows none of the girls..."

"Making of the common route a succession of funny slice of life scenes was a brilliant execution of this."

"And the bad end manages to be disturbing; people ending up crazy is among my favorite kind of bad end."

"This route is bit inconstant (removed comma) because the flashback and the endings are excellent, but the rest is not extremely exciting (removed comma) and a bit shakily written."

That's just what I could find.  Feel free to double-check my corrections with someone else, since I'm not perfect at English, either.

[edwd2]

i have a major complaint about the last choice in yumiko's route. realistically, a happy end is much more likely if they ran away together, but apparently they decided to pull loads of BS and ridiculous school yard fights instead.