A fan translation of Dies Irae battle scene

[Conjueror]

Hello, guys.
 

I tried testing my skills by translating an excerpt from one of the more complex VNs around, and thought that some of you might be interested. I'm fairly confident in my Japanese, but trying to reproduce Masada's writing in English nearly gave me a heart attack; hopefully, my lousy prose won't give one to you, haha. I edited it myself too, so don't be too angry if I messed up grammar or used a weird word here and there (I lived in Japan for so long, I don't remember how ppl speak overseas anymore xD).

The scene has spoilers, obviously, but if you aren't reading the game now, or mean to do it fairly soon, they are so cryptic you'll probably won't understand what the hell Masada (or me) is even blabbering about.

 

Text-based TL on my blog:

https://vnrw.wordpress.com/2015/02/27/translation-dies-irae-beatrice-vs-eleonore-part-i/

Subbed YT videos:

 

[Zalor]

Wow, thanks for this! I've heard a lot about Dies Irae (it seems to be a favorite among Japanese literate fans), but I know little about it. I asked this question somewhere else but never got an answer, so maybe you could tell me. Why is Dies Irae supposedly "untranslatable" to use a term I've heard other people use? What specifically about the writing, narration, dialogue makes the VN so difficult to translate? People say that the writing is complex, but they have rarely specified what specifically is complex about it.  

 

Edit: You actually just recently (minutes ago infact) addressed this question in the place I originally asked it. 

[Conjueror]

Wow, thanks for this! I've heard a lot about Dies Irae (it seems to be a favorite among Japanese literate fans), but I know little about it. I asked this question somewhere else but never got an answer, so maybe you could tell me. Why is Dies Irae supposedly "untranslatable" to use a term I've heard other people use? What specifically about the writing, narration, dialogue makes the VN so difficult to translate? People say that the writing is complex, but they have rarely specified what specifically is complex about it.  

 

Edit: You actually just recently (minutes ago infact) addressed this question in the place I originally asked it. 

 

Oh, lol, yeah, that was quite a surreal experience. Basically, Masada tends to use very complicated words and expressions, most of which are impossible to translate literally (unless you are alright with making no sense whatsoever), so you have to know how to transform Japanese writing into English writing that has the same effect without using the same words most of the time. Japanese is not the biggest problem, you basically have to be on-par with professional novelists to reproduce the writing of the vn. xD

EDIT: Oh yeah, and it also has stuff like this: 其泣状者青山如枯山泣枯河海者悉泣乾 是以惡神之音如狭蝿皆滿 that even most native Japanese can't read. Those are quotes from ancient Japanese mythology writings, something like our Bible I suppose, and are, obviously, written in ancient Japanese. I actually had to contact my friend with a PhD in ancient Japanese literature to make sense out of that line. Still, you can find modern Japanese translations of this writing (Kojiki) online, so you can do a secondary tl to English, so it's still not untranslatable, even if you can't read ancient Japanese.

[Deep Blue]

So what kind of text in english could be similar in difficult to this one in japanese(if there is any)? I'm intrigue to understand the real difficult of this text.

[LinovaA]

At every corner, I am reminded of how much I want to read this VN.

 

*sigh* Gotta reset my timer for the time since my last Dies Irae hype train. Thanks for this though. ^-^

[zoom909]

So what kind of text in english could be similar in difficult to this one in japanese(if there is any)? I'm intrigue to understand the real difficult of this text.

 

 

Well, I'm not a fan of the game, but a good English analogy for the line from the Kojiki would be something like this:

Leoht eastan com, beorht beacen Godes; brimu swaþredon, þæt ic sænæssas geseon mihte, windige weallas.  Wyrd oft nereð unfægne eorl, þonne his ellen deah!  Hwæþere me gesælde, þæt ic mid sweorde ofsloh niceras nigene.

[Deep Blue]

Well, I'm not a fan of the game, but a good English analogy for the line from the Kojiki would be something like this:

Leoht eastan com, beorht beacen Godes; brimu swaþredon, þæt ic sænæssas geseon mihte, windige weallas.  Wyrd oft nereð unfægne eorl, þonne his ellen deah!  Hwæþere me gesælde, þæt ic mid sweorde ofsloh niceras nigene.

[Zalor]

Well, I'm not a fan of the game, but a good English analogy for the line from the Kojiki would be something like this:

Leoht eastan com, beorht beacen Godes; brimu swaþredon, þæt ic sænæssas geseon mihte, windige weallas.  Wyrd oft nereð unfægne eorl, þonne his ellen deah!  Hwæþere me gesælde, þæt ic mid sweorde ofsloh niceras nigene.

[Conjueror]

Well, I'm not a fan of the game, but a good English analogy for the line from the Kojiki would be something like this:

Leoht eastan com, beorht beacen Godes; brimu swaþredon, þæt ic sænæssas geseon mihte, windige weallas.  Wyrd oft nereð unfægne eorl, þonne his ellen deah!  Hwæþere me gesælde, þæt ic mid sweorde ofsloh niceras nigene.

[LinovaA]

... So in other words... Gonna be a a very long time before I even think of touching Dies Irae. I guess me thinking 7 years was kind of generous of me.

[Deep Blue]

... So in other words... Gonna be a a very long time before I even think of touching Dies Irae. I guess me thinking 7 years was kind of generous of me.

[Conjueror]

... So in other words... Gonna be a a very long time before I even think of touching Dies Irae. I guess me thinking 7 years was kind of generous of me.

[LinovaA]

You and me both LinovaA

 

One day we shall make it! One day!  My determination on this is endless I tell ya.

 

Haha, well, that depends on how you spend those years. You can pretty much tackle Dies Irae after you get JLPT N1. You might still find it an exhausting experience, but you should understand most of it, no problem.

 

You can always use outside help for the ancient Japanese stuff (as far as I can remember, there are only two passages of it in the whole VN; and I can already save you the headaches of one as per courtesy of GareJei who has has already transcribed it into beautiful English).

 

 

Oh I imagine! I like to exaggerate a lot. ehehe I am going to try and work my way to it. Honestly, a more realistic outlook on it is maybe in the next 2-3 years at the rate I am going. As for the ancient Japanese... I might have to dig this up again one day when I finally get to the point where I am reading it. Thanks for that~

[Wahfuu]

As a massive fan of Dies and having the pleasure to the game in its original form (with massive amounts of headaches, questions to superiors, etc) I can't say I like the translation.

Quite simply, the game reads like any other fan translation ever created. You have a few good lines here and there that sort of capture it, but overall its very stiff and simply lacks the power that masada's text has. Its just.. honestly boring, which is the exact opposite of what masada should be like.

Just a few things I noticed early:

It's not 'Makina', its Machina. As in Deus Ex Machina.

'giggle' is not something I would ever describe Samiel as doing ever in the history of ever, ever.

As someone who even knows the context of some of the stuff thats being talked about in this video, I still find your translation a bit muddy on what exactly is being talked about. I know that the game itself can be pretty vague at pretty much all times, but it seemed to get worse going to english.

Anyways, I don't mean to bash, just things I see.

[Conjueror]

As a massive fan of Dies and having the pleasure to the game in its original form (with massive amounts of headaches, questions to superiors, etc) I can't say I like the translation.

Quite simply, the game reads like any other fan translation ever created. You have a few good lines here and there that sort of capture it, but overall its very stiff and simply lacks the power that masada's text has. Its just.. honestly boring, which is the exact opposite of what masada should be like.

Just a few things I noticed early:

It's not 'Makina', its Machina. As in Deus Ex Machina.

'giggle' is not something I would ever describe Samiel as doing ever in the history of ever, ever.

As someone who even knows the context of some of the stuff thats being talked about in this video, I still find your translation a bit muddy on what exactly is being talked about. I know that the game itself can be pretty vague at pretty much all times, but it seemed to get worse going to english.

Anyways, I don't mean to bash, just things I see.

[Mephisto]

That shit looks like the texts the Japanese wrote before Hirigana was invented. 

 

Since it most likely is. Rip. 

[Mikimir]

EDIT: Oh yeah, and it also has stuff like this: 其泣状者青山如枯山泣枯河海者悉泣乾 是以惡神之音如狭蝿皆滿 that even most native Japanese can't read. Those are quotes from ancient Japanese mythology writings, something like our Bible I suppose, and are, obviously, written in ancient Japanese. I actually had to contact my friend with a PhD in ancient Japanese literature to make sense out of that line. Still, you can find modern Japanese translations of this writing (Kojiki) online, so you can do a secondary tl to English, so it's still not untranslatable, even if you can't read ancient Japanese.

Too... Many... Kanjis...

[Darklord Rooke]

Quite simply, the game reads like any other fan translation ever created. 

 

Nah, far from it actually. There may be problems with his script, but his work is far different from the vast majority of fan-translations out there.

 

Most fan-translations are so interested in keeping the authors style that they produce butchered english line after butchered english line. They seem to be completely unaware that if you do this, the only "tone" and "style" coming across is that of "foreign" or "young." They then talk about respecting the original author, as if making the author appear this way is supposed to be a compliment. Conjuror's actually reads competently in english, and I don't know if that has to do with the text or not but that automatically makes it different to almost every fan-translation ever produced.

 

Which in turn makes me excited about his future career.

[Kawasumi]

this is amazing (hoping that the owner of the blog would make a translation of it (NOT IN A MILLION YEARS LOL))

 

But its still interesting, thanks for the small bit though, now I have more to hype dies irae with

[Conjueror]

Nah, far from it actually. There may be problems with his script, but his work is far different from the vast majority of fan-translations out there.

 

Most fan-translations are so interested in keeping the authors style that they produce butchered english line after butchered english line. They seem to be completely unaware that if you do this, the only "tone" and "style" coming across is that of "foreign" or "young." They then talk about respecting the original author, as if making the author appear this way is supposed to be a compliment. Conjuror's actually reads competently in english, and I don't know if that has to do with the text or not but that automatically makes it different to almost every fan-translation ever produced.

 

Which in turn makes me excited about his future career.

Thank you for your kind words! Translating a work like Dies Irae literally would only leave you with an incomprehensible mess, so it's much more of a challenge to one's English writing ability, than Japanese comprehension. I'm somewhat of an avid reader of English novel, but writing seems to be a different beast altogether; and the wall of not being a native speaker of your tongue is quite a beast to topple in this case. I still can't believe the "dancing on the palm of one's hand" is not proper English; I must have watched too many literally subtitled anime.

I am actually currently in the middle of a very exciting project with a few really talented people, but I can't disclose it for legal reasons yet. Hopefully, it won't disappoint you when it comes out.

 

P.S. Hope Boo is as excited about Pillars of Eternity as I am.

 

this is amazing (hoping that the owner of the blog would make a translation of it (NOT IN A MILLION YEARS LOL))

 

But its still interesting, thanks for the small bit though, now I have more to hype dies irae with

I would love to translate Dies Irae in its entirety, but I'm simply not good enough for such a crazy venture yet. Maybe in a couple of years...