VN Reading Club - Steins;Gate (about bloody time)

[Eclipsed]

3 hours ago, Vorathiel said:

blah blah Kurisu didn't have feelings for Okabe as much as he did for her // she only helped cuz felt responsible

This is actually how it was meant to be, and why it's kinda sweet in a tragic way

super S;G spoilers!! Beware!@#

Spoiler

It's emphasized that each time Okabe undoes a D-Mail that Kurisu will pretty much forget each time she helped him

So his love for her continues growing while hers basically resets each time

But she really does love him

 

And at the end of the True End, he'll call out to her, with her seemingly supposed to have no memories of him whatsoever. But yet, she'll respond to his 'assistant' antics the usual way, and it's just d'awwww

 

[Kurisu-Chan]

3 hours ago, Vorathiel said:

I didn't care at all. It was was it was, I didn't thought about it too much.

But I had a somehow similiar issue. I liked banters and chemistry between Kurisu and Okabe, bot not nce I felt that she really, genuinely liked him. I always felt like she was staying at lab, because she was interested in microwave, and ocasional banters with Okabe were... well, simply banters between two highly intelligent persons. Okabe - sure, his feelings were visible. But Kurisu was visibly liking Okabe maybe only in e-mails.

Even in later chapters, where she was 

 

The Phenogram VN answers that very well about Kurisu's true feeling. 

[Vorathiel]

25 minutes ago, Eclipsed said:

This is actually how it was meant to be, and why it's kinda sweet in a tragic way

super S;G spoilers!! Beware!@#

  Reveal hidden contents

It's emphasized that each time Okabe undoes a D-Mail that Kurisu will pretty much forget each time she helped him

So his love for her continues growing while hers basically resets each time

But she really does love him

 

And at the end of the True End, he'll call out to her, with her seemingly supposed to have no memories of him whatsoever. But yet, she'll respond to his 'assistant' antics the usual way, and it's just d'awwww

 

You've wrote that really beautifully. Ach, what a great vn it is.

 

[Fred the Barber]

Finally found a good chunk of time and got through the side-route at the end of Chapter 7.

Spoiler

Yessss bittersweet Faris side-route ending. I loved it.

I'm very partial to bittersweet endings. Salvation has a price, and the hero pays it willingly; there's something in that formula that deeply appeals to me.

Next, on to Chapter 8!

[Turnip Sensei]

I actually read  chapter 7 + Faris's ending a while ago, but I was too busy with Valusia and forgot to post anything.

Spoiler

Faris's chapter is pretty nice, although it strays away from the main drama and focuses more on Faris and... Rainet. Not that it bothered me that much since Faris is such an fascinating character. 

Not only is her mischievous cat-girl persona intriguing in the same way Okabe's mannerisms are, but also her "real self" is nice too, from what little is shown. And the contrast between them creates some pretty touching scenes. Much like when Okabe throws away his foolery, the "real" Faris feels even more vulnerable when she lets go of her facade. 

Also Faris remembering the previous world lines so strongly was something I totally forgot. And what a strong girl she is, despite the conflicting memories she decides to help Okabe. Like the scene where she makes up her mind and then in order to reassure Okabe and herself compares the current world line to nice dream allowed to her.

The ending is pretty good too. Once again escaping fate, but this time the actual consequences are shown. Losing most of previous relationships and not knowing how he ended up in that point of life. It's very much like a two wounded animals licking each others wounds; Okabe only has Faris to rely on in the new world line and Faris lost, if momentarily, her loved one in exchange for changing past. It's nicely bittersweet, but also with pretty optimistic tone. The whole ending gives off this feeling that fate is romantic, coincidence brings people back to their most precious ones.     

And I guess now is the time to make mad dash to finish, as it's only few days to the release of Tokyo Babel.

[Nimbus]

I was going to save my Pre-Chapter 5 thoughts until after finishing chapter 4 (seeing as how everyone says I'll start enjoying S;G at chapter 5) but to hell with it; it's late and this chapter is just dragging on and on...

Spoiler

I'll begin by saying I like almost everything about this vn. I'm enjoying the soundtrack, the art design is great, the story is fascinating and I really want to see where it goes.I'm loving most of the characters, Mayushi is highly enjoyable despite early doubts, Kurisu is always the most interesting to listen to and all of the other female character hold their own.

Unfortunately there are three things I hate about S;G.

Firstly, the protagonist. I know everyone says he gets better during/after Chapter 5 and whilst I'm open to this it doesn't change the fact that for nearly half the vn Okabe is the most intolerable, annoying, self-contradictory piece of shit I've ever had the displeasure of having to read about. Because we're stuck with shit-for-brains at all times is dialogue is ruining what would otherwise be great moments of exposition and story development. His reactions are all the same, he has one comedic feature which isn't even funny, so repeating it constantly make me want to throttle him until he turns purple and he's just such a fucking asshole. There was one moment in chapter 4 where he offers to take Mayushi out for dinner and I really liked this scene, it was one of few moments I could actually tolerate him, but unless the rest of S;G has more of these moments I simply cannot fathom Okabe getting any better.

The second problem which I hinted at earlier was the pacing. This may be a result of me just not having a good time but it really feels like S;G is just dragging along. It feels like you could cut out every third line of text and would loose absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

The final problem is that S'G is relying too much on the Idiot Plot means of progression; where the story only advances because the characters are being idiots. twice now Okabe has revealed the time machine to people by screaming about it in front of outsiders and at this point he's just being a hypocrite as well as a dickhead. Furthermore the scene in which he fondles Ruka  and discovers the past has changed was incredibly stupid. How a "mad scientist" couldn't have connected the dots during that unnecessarily long scene is beyond me.

I really wish I could like this vn, and you're all probably sick of me hating on S;G before Chapter 5 but keep in mind I'm 2/5 of the way through the whole game and can count the enjoyable moments with just one hand. Even if the rest is fantastic I won't be able to gt around the crap I've had to put up with.

I hope I'm wrong and that I'll be eating these words, but I just doubt it. 

 

[Fred the Barber]

12 hours ago, Turnip Sensei said:

 

  Hide contents

The whole ending gives off this feeling that fate is romantic, coincidence brings people back to their most precious ones.     

 

Well-said!

Edit because I made more progress and wanted to comment on it, but didn't want to double-post:

So, I started up chapter 8, which is going fine, but I have to comment on the events right at the beginning of chapter 8:

Spoiler

So, appropriately, as soon as they send the D-Mail, there's Faris, and Okabe's reaction was exactly what mine would have been in that situation. Tears were rolling down my face as I read that scene, especially because the last scene I'd read had been the alternate ending. The side-routes are making the experience of this VN 10x better for me.

Anyway, I don't consider this a spoiler, just good advice: when the chance arises, go down the side route before moving on to the main chapter.

[Kurisu-Chan]

Spoiler

No one wants to talk about the VN? 

 

[MercyZombie]

Alright, I'll bite. I just got done with Luka's ending and I can sadly say that my opinion of it haven't improved much since the first time I read it.

Salty rant coming up, also massive spoilers for pretty much every ending. 

Seriously, don't read this if you haven't finished with S;G. It's too good for just butthurt-joe here to ruin it for you.

Spoiler

So my main problem is that Okabe gives up on Mayuri. Which I wouldn't mind so much (from a story perspective that is) if not for the fact that this is the only part in the whole VN where he does this. He wavers at some points but never actually pulls the plug, except for here of all places.  

in Suzuha's ending he ends up in a timeloop for refusing to give up either girl. In Faris's he ends up unintentionally changing his past trying to find a third solution. In neither does he actually give up on stopping Mayuri from dying. But now when he has to choose between his best friend's life or his protégée's gender it's suddenly too much. Also keep in mind that at this point he has already sacrificed Faris's dad to get where he is. Hell later on in Kurisu's own ending, he still ends up choosing Mayuri. He chooses Mayuri over his own damned love interest. If he was going to give up at any point, you think it would be there but he doesn't, even if he had to have Kurisu kick him into action.

Don't get me wrong, I get why this is pretty damn traumatizing for poor Luka. I also get why this would be a hard decision for Okabe to make considering the circumstances. But to suddenly now of all places go "I have no right to mess with the timeline!" after all you've done and after what you otherwise are going to do... it's hard to swallow.

This is also completely ignoring the fact that SERN is now going to take over the world. Oh you forgot about that? It's okay, so does the VN itself. You see that adorable baby during the ending CG? That baby is going to grow up under dystopian rule. Like 1984 but the government now has access to time travel. And the baby's father? He is most likely going to spend several years slowly being tortured to death. Oh what a happy ending indeed.

 

Alright now that I got all of that off my chest I can continue with the otherwise very enjoyable story. I wonder if any of you are going to fight me over this. That is if anyone can actually read my half-scribbled mockery of the english language

[Eclipsed]

Nah, Mr.butthurt-joe, you're right, that was one of my secret gripes with that ending as well so I get you 

[Fred the Barber]

Got through Luka's ending yesterday or day before, so I can comment a bit on that as well:

Spoiler

I kind of agree - it's a little hard to swallow.

One suspicion I have is that they're trying to show a lot of variety in alternative choices with the additional endings. So, Suzuha's gives you a very open, hopeful ending. Faris's gives you a very complete but bittersweet ending. And Luka's ending is simply tragic.

On Okabe getting up: one thing I do sympathize with, especially after considering what he was like in the middle of Suzuha's side-route, is that he his getting really worn down at this point. This route comes right on the heels of Okabe effectively killing Faris's father, and the subsequent beautiful scene where all he can say to Faris is "I'm sorry". If it's right after that trauma, I can see where he's starting to feel that he doesn't have the right to do these things.

But, again, I'm mostly with you - it's probably the least credible of the side-routes.

 

[Vorathiel]

Agree, MercyZombie. Although I my 'headcanon' I simply think this is 

Spoiler

him giving up, because he can't stand taking it, destroying 'new timelines', much longer.

But it could be sufficent only if there would be no 'SERN taking over the world'. But unfortunatelly it is. So - Lukas' ending is definitelly the worst one.

Another nitpick, never explained in VN, about SERN:
 

Spoiler

why they gave superfast direct connection to their machinery, from this simple 'lab' in the middle of nowhere? Or did I missed something?

 

[Fred the Barber]

4 hours ago, Vorathiel said:

Another nitpick, never explained in VN, about SERN:
 

  Hide contents

why they gave superfast direct connection to their machinery, from this simple 'lab' in the middle of nowhere? Or did I missed something?

 

Spoiler

I have two plausible explanations for that, though I haven't seen the game try to explain it yet.

• Suzuha had it installed because she knew they'd need it (remember that she owned the building).
• Sern had it installed to facilitate FB's work.

 

[LiquidShu]

Bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh  Just finished Chapter 1, the ending was hype 

I saw some people dis Okarin but I love him, and literally every other character that may or may not matter. Kurisu-tina, Ruka, Mayushii, Daru, Ferin, Moeka, love them. The banter between characters is hilarious, the art design is AMAZING, I love the VA's, and the story is really getting me pumped up. Crazy shit going down, super duper excited to see what is to come 

[Fred the Barber]

13 minutes ago, LiquidShu said:

Bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh  Just finished Chapter 1, the ending was hype 

I saw some people dis Okarin but I love him, and literally every other character that may or may not matter. Kurisu-tina, Ruka, Mayushii, Daru, Ferin, Moeka, love them. The banter between characters is hilarious, the art design is AMAZING, I love the VA's, and the story is really getting me pumped up. Crazy shit going down, super duper excited to see what is to come 

It only goes up from there. Enjoy the ride

[Eclipsed]

41 minutes ago, LiquidShu said:

Bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh  Just finished Chapter 1, the ending was hype 

I saw some people dis Okarin but I love him, and literally every other character that may or may not matter. Kurisu-tina, Ruka, Mayushii, Daru, Ferin, Moeka, love them. The banter between characters is hilarious, the art design is AMAZING, I love the VA's, and the story is really getting me pumped up. Crazy shit going down, super duper excited to see what is to come 

Now that's the spirit! This was the hype and enthusiasm I expected from everybody in this club month 

[Fred the Barber]

I finished my first playthrough

Spoiler

and it was tragic, lovely, heartbreaking, and beautiful.

I'm skipping through with a guide now to get the remaining two endings.

Once I properly finish it, Steins;Gate is going to be my second 10 on VNDB (right next to Little Busters! #dealwithit).

[MercyZombie]

That scene near the ending 

Spoiler

when Okabe is finally going to change the worldline and he tries (and fails horribly) not to cry

Just makes me all emotional. and to me it really emphasises on what a difference a good voice actor makes. Miyano Mamoru owns his role as Okabe in this VN. More VNs should learn from this and voice their protagonists. Yes I know that is not very likely to happen any time soon for a variety of reasons but I stick by it.

 

5 hours ago, Fred the Barber said:

Once I properly finish it, Steins;Gate is going to be my second 10 on VNDB (right next to Little Busters! #dealwithit).

It's okay. Little Busters! and Steins;Gate are at the top of my list too. Shh... Don't tell anyone. 

[Kurisu-Chan]

17 hours ago, MercyZombie said:

Alright, I'll bite. I just got done with Luka's ending and I can sadly say that my opinion of it haven't improved much since the first time I read it.

Salty rant coming up, also massive spoilers for pretty much every ending. 

Seriously, don't read this if you haven't finished with S;G. It's too good for just butthurt-joe here to ruin it for you.

  Reveal hidden contents

So my main problem is that Okabe gives up on Mayuri. Which I wouldn't mind so much (from a story perspective that is) if not for the fact that this is the only part in the whole VN where he does this. He wavers at some points but never actually pulls the plug, except for here of all places.  

in Suzuha's ending he ends up in a timeloop for refusing to give up either girl. In Faris's he ends up unintentionally changing his past trying to find a third solution. In neither does he actually give up on stopping Mayuri from dying. But now when he has to choose between his best friend's life or his protégée's gender it's suddenly too much. Also keep in mind that at this point he has already sacrificed Faris's dad to get where he is. Hell later on in Kurisu's own ending, he still ends up choosing Mayuri. He chooses Mayuri over his own damned love interest. If he was going to give up at any point, you think it would be there but he doesn't, even if he had to have Kurisu kick him into action.

Don't get me wrong, I get why this is pretty damn traumatizing for poor Luka. I also get why this would be a hard decision for Okabe to make considering the circumstances. But to suddenly now of all places go "I have no right to mess with the timeline!" after all you've done and after what you otherwise are going to do... it's hard to swallow.

This is also completely ignoring the fact that SERN is now going to take over the world. Oh you forgot about that? It's okay, so does the VN itself. You see that adorable baby during the ending CG? That baby is going to grow up under dystopian rule. Like 1984 but the government now has access to time travel. And the baby's father? He is most likely going to spend several years slowly being tortured to death. Oh what a happy ending indeed.

 

Alright now that I got all of that off my chest I can continue with the otherwise very enjoyable story. I wonder if any of you are going to fight me over this. That is if anyone can actually read my half-scribbled mockery of the english language

It's exactly what every side ending serves as a purpose.

Every ending has that bittersweet taste like : you have this...but... 

[Kurisu-Chan]

15 hours ago, Vorathiel said:

Agree, MercyZombie. Although I my 'headcanon' I simply think this is 

  Reveal hidden contents

him giving up, because he can't stand taking it, destroying 'new timelines', much longer.

But it could be sufficent only if there would be no 'SERN taking over the world'. But unfortunatelly it is. So - Lukas' ending is definitelly the worst one.

Another nitpick, never explained in VN, about SERN:
 

  Hide contents

why they gave superfast direct connection to their machinery, from this simple 'lab' in the middle of nowhere? Or did I missed something?

 

It is explained. 

[Vorathiel]

6 hours ago, Fred the Barber said:

I finished my first playthrough

  Reveal hidden contents

and it was tragic, lovely, heartbreaking, and beautiful.

I'm skipping through with a guide now to get the remaining two endings.

Once I properly finish it, Steins;Gate is going to be my second 10 on VNDB (right next to Little Busters! #dealwithit).

No thoughts on last side route? For me it was

Spoiler

creepy and awesome. 

Another thing I didn't really like was fact, that game encourage to not do anything, besides messages, on your phone in the first playthrough. Which is bad, because when Mayuri
(chapter 5 minor spoilers)
 

Spoiler

disappears you can call Luka and check on Mayuri in the temple. Obviously I, and probably many others, didn't do it and I omitted one of the most gutpunching scene in whole VN.

 

[Nimbus]

Chapter 6 spoilers

Spoiler

*sigh. Believe it or not I actually really enjoyed the beginning of this chapter, it showed me that, against all odds, Okabe may not be as bad as I thought (though 5 chapters of horseshit is still unforgivable).

But then the idiot plot kicks in. Maybe I'm really critical of this point because they go out of their way to give this story a brain and how the protagonist is a scientist. One of the key elements of science is recognizing patterns. When Okabe time leaps and thinks it was just a dream I could accept this (even if he remembers the line "Are you ready to time leap?") but the fact that he's been seeing patterns all day and hasn't thought "gee, maybe it wasn't a dream" is just stupid. Sure, it creates further conflict but so what? the conflict already happened and actually had surprises to t. here I'm not excited, intrigued or even sad, I'm just thinking "what the fuck did you think was going to happen Okabe you pathetic excuse for an intellectual?"

 

[Mr Poltroon]

53 minutes ago, Nimbus said:

Chapter 6 spoilers

  Hide contents

*sigh. Believe it or not I actually really enjoyed the beginning of this chapter, it showed me that, against all odds, Okabe may not be as bad as I thought (though 5 chapters of horseshit is still unforgivable).

But then the idiot plot kicks in. Maybe I'm really critical of this point because they go out of their way to give this story a brain and how the protagonist is a scientist. One of the key elements of science is recognizing patterns. When Okabe time leaps and thinks it was just a dream I could accept this (even if he remembers the line "Are you ready to time leap?") but the fact that he's been seeing patterns all day and hasn't thought "gee, maybe it wasn't a dream" is just stupid. Sure, it creates further conflict but so what? the conflict already happened and actually had surprises to t. here I'm not excited, intrigued or even sad, I'm just thinking "what the fuck did you think was going to happen Okabe you pathetic excuse for an intellectual?"

 

I don't know if what I want to say constitutes as spoilers, or even if I'm correct in what I'm saying, but what you say keeps making me think you're looking at Okabe in entirely the wrong light. Or maybe I'm the one who's confused.

Maybe someone else who's already finished can tell me if it's spoilers, or if I'm just plain wrong.

Spoiler

Why do you say Okabe's a scientist?
Okabe is your average college student with a rather heavy case of chuunibyou. He fools around with his friends, the lab members, living a joyous normal life. He just happens to have a scientist's curiosity. I'll give you that much.

At least, this is how I've always seen him.

 

[Turnip Sensei]

Aah, nothing beats reading a good visual novel after a shitty day at work. In other words I read the final chapter of Steins;Gate + the True End.

Spoiler

I love how the 9th chapter end and 10th begins as both the reader and Okabe realize that something really important was forgotten on the way. That really got me good the first time. And while it doesn't quite work as effectively if you know it's coming, the sense of despair and disbelief is still pretty strong.

The introspection from Okabe is really fascinating as well, the strong point of the chapter for me. Here the real ramifications of time travel are brought to light, as Okabe questions his choices. The side-routes were already pretty heartrending, but finally the necessary sacrifices starts too feel too heavy to bear. The journey that started from horsing around with friends feels both very long and so short looking back.  

While it didn't bother me nearly as much as when I first read Steins;Gate the romance between Kurisu and Okabe, or more accurately the resolution of it, is handled pretty bluntly. It just kind of happens and fast, which is little disappointing considering how subtly the relationship progressed through the story. I would have liked more development like the scene in Radio Kaikan during the summer downpour, to ease up little by little and not just mention the romantic feelings for the first time in the narration at the same scene where they confess.

And then the True End!

Spoiler

Man I love the phone-call during credits. I can't imagine what kind of gift from gods it would feel like if someone managed to reach that blindly.

The True End is such a satisfying way to end the game. It ties together everything very nicely, even the small details from the beginning you most certainly did forgot. I've always liked when stories tie their ending back to the beginning, and Steins;Gate makes it even better with the time travel. The struggle to save Kurisu is really tense and it's nice too see despair finally changing into determination. The plan itself is kind of ridiculous, but I think it's fitting that way. As even ridiculous phrases have meaning if it's given to them, one's future or fate can also be changed, be it no matter how ridiculous.    

 

So yeah, Steins;Gate is pretty much as great as I remembered. 

El Psy Kongroo!

[LiquidShu]

Alright, the lack of enthusiasm from Daru and Mayushii is getting to me  Shit is going down man, just believe in Okabe!! Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh