Lumaria
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Posts posted by Lumaria
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Persona recently started being the flashier version we see now. Heck even though persona 3 was a little more flashier and had a new artist, it still tried to follow the original persona games.
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42 minutes ago, Pabloc said:
What the heck are you talking about? I wasn't referring to anything that you said. You didn't bother to read what I quoted, did you?
I actually agree with your points, that adding gameplay elements to VNs and turning them to hybrids or not-VNs-at-all isn't exactly a good way to make them popular anywhere.I'm not really arguing but clarifying what I meant when I said vns focus on story and visuals. But it was a vague statement that didn't need too much attention. Thats all.
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1 hour ago, Codesterz said:
There are 2 things in particular that keep me away from OELVN, lack of 18+ content and lack of voice acting. Until OELVN can get both of these I'm just not interested in them. Another problem I find with them is the visual style. Many of them have art styles that are to far off from a more traditional japanese anime art style. I'm not looking for a unique art style I'm looking for pretty girls. The next issue I have with OELVN is there length. I like my VNs to be at least 20 hours long. These are just my personal opinions though. The 1st 2 issues I listed are my biggest problems though. 18+ content AND voice acting or bust.
I also find voice acting a bit of an issue, at least when it comes to voicing reactions.
Everything else is preference, and ultimately something you shouldn't worry about since all Japanese VNs should fill your needs.
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@Forgetful Frank i decided not to share anything here. Not yet. But if you are interested. Ill share the story with those who want to read it.
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@Pabloc I noticed you love to misinterpret the slightest phrase and go on a tangent. I'm not saying visual novels are known for story. But they are Novel oriented and visual oriented.
@Black Sands Entertainment well looking at the title and opening post, it clearly suggests you did intend to make a pure VN,
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7 minutes ago, CeruleanGamer said:
I consider Black Sands marketing similar to an infomercial on a swiss army knife. You expect it to be primarily something (in this case the knife function in comparison to an OELVN), while introducing its other functionalities and features (in this case comparing the screw, the bottle opener, the scissors, the pliers attachments with the graphic adventure, RPG elements, "insanity" meter, the relationship progression, etc)
The way you handle marketing/advertising a product like that is focus on its primary function, so really highlight why it's a really interesting VN to read, what makes it stand out over other VNs and then market everything else on the side but making sure they do not overshadow what the game is really about, which is a visual novel game with interesting and unique themes.
VNs by nature are strictly "novel" and "visual". Recently more and more graphic adventures using the VN brand. Games like danganronpa.
Thus isn't. Multi purpose knife analogy. This is a streak that added two pieces of bread on top and bottom. Its no longer a steak, it's a sandwich
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@CeruleanGamer I didn't say that you said that. But look at the process of the debate. My main point is that black sands isn't defining VNs it's more of an existing genre, and using that may not promote VNs, it will promote else.
You made the point that oelvns aren't great because copy paste the same thing. Which I agree, but as my own point I didn't believe that adding more gamplay features makes a better VN or fixes the problem VNs have now. It just goes around it.
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4 minutes ago, CeruleanGamer said:
And there are a lot of VNs that exist with the idea of being a VN but still failing at it. Reason is they basically copy paste all the overused plots, settings, and cliches but not putting their "own mark" on it. And even if it has a superior storytelling aspect, if everything else fails to captivate the reader interest, then it doesnt matter how "safe" you make it out to be. Sometimes risks can pay off especially on a market that is still quite uncharted like OELVNs.
As an example: like that thread @Decay reviewed on No One But You - like the art is rather amazing and all and it feels like a VN at first glance but once you play and probe it for what it is, it fails to meet the standards of a proper VN - it tries to do all these typical VN scenarios but it forgot its real identity and it never had its own uniqueness or anything that would make it stand out.
There is no rulebook or Bible on creating VNs or telling you what or what not to do in it. It's all about studying what the current generation of VN readers want, what could possibly appeal to them, and sometimes going out of your way to truly express a unique identity for a VN like what Katawa Shoujo did with disabled girls or what Princess Evangile did with "what would it be like being the only male in a girls-only school".
That doesn't mean adding more game play mechanics make it better VN . If anything it hides the same flaws. And that's the point.
Yes western VNs are copy/paste. I think they are far too targeted to the general gamer and otaku. I know for a fact other people play games almost as much as gamers. The difference is the type of games. I think if they aim for more people who aren't 100% interested in anime/manga or even dc/marvel comics, you would be surprised how well it does.
The only way we can have great VNs if we stop making them completely VNs? Think about what black sands promises are compared to what we know about VNs.
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Don't think I'm treating this harshly. I'm only trying to make you know what it makes a VN and what could hurt it NOT be a VN. you can make The best experience her and not be a VN.
I'm positive this will be a fun enjoyable game. Heck as a graphic adventure, this is pretty standard. But that's what I think this is, a graphic adventure.
At this time my computer broke. Ibhavent been able to work on my own projects for now. So I will not be able to help you in beta testing. But a good ganeplay video that can highlight story and gameplay will really help too.
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@Kiriririri Following this idea through, you dont need to see the final product to know what kind of game. Whether it turns out good or bad, thats not the point and never has been.
And no that's not what he's doing. He's making a game that everyone can enjoy that can barely be called a VN. Basically making VNs more game oriented than story.
Basically he's aiming for danganronpa.
@CeruleanGamer the problem isn't that this will exist. Heck, a lot of VNs exist with the idea of not being a VN. But normally those games don't promote the idea that it's to redefine what it means to make a VN. and that is dangerous.
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2 hours ago, Black Sands Entertainment said:
If I ignored the negative, i would have still been trying to push out the product I had created back in october. The game was overhauled for a reason.
Your obsession for "purity" in visual novels is kind of scary considering you started a thread about making VNs more popular in the west. The way you do it is by appeasing their interest while not alienating the base.
Your strategy for making visual novels more west friendly is like the republican strategy to get more minority voters. "If we insult them enough, they surely will vote for us!"My strategy for making VN more western friendly is literally make VNs designed for peoples interest while still have the pride and joy of as VN. After all VNs are more of a medium to story telling than a genre of video games.
There's no insult other than maybe the ones who worked against the idea and not even know it.
Your method however isnt to highlight what makes a VN. There's a HUGE difference there.
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I don't know about everyone else but I tend to prefer newer things.
What you mentioned is completely normal. You enjoyed a country almost as if it was a second home. And a lot of people find that. Others enjoy vacations and trying out new places.
I can't stand doom. Not because of it's style or anything, but I always felt completely lost in that game and making no real progress.
I wouldn't say you are too in love with the past, you just have nothing to look forward to in other areas.
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I decided not tobshare anything in this forum.
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RPG in a nutshell are more single PC to party oriented. There are a lot of features that differentiate rpgs from him. Heck, kairosoft games have battles in some of their games and they are still considered Sim games and not an RPG.
Regardless I think you get what the problem is though. The highlights of this VN are more rooted to an RPG then a VN. Its trying to go around the weaknesses and short comings of a VN. Heck I think that's what most Indie devs have been doing.
VNs by nature are minimalistic. And for a reason. I'm not saying a VN can't have an encyclopedia or mini games at times. But once they rely on those to carry the story, it stops becoming a VN and just a graphic adventure. Just like telltale games.
Black sands came in with the ambition of redefining what it means to make a western VN. Which honestly I thought was great. But when I see it as a sales pitch to his own interpretation of a VN. You can see where things change.
I'm sure black sands entertainment is doing the "ignore negative, respond to positive" approach. But honestly he's better off either a) showing, not telling or b) not doing either until it's complete with only trusted few beta testing.
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4 hours ago, Black Sands Entertainment said:
Just trust me on this. It is a visual novel. The game mechanics are to enhance the story. If it was fully scripted, you wouldn't feel the wonder and craziness of the rift.
Thats because you're designing it as an RPG. All game play mechanics work to enhance story.
But there is already a genre that isn't VN that does all of what you say. Its a VN. The core concept is an RPG more than a VN.
you're working on the strengths of an RPG and you are going around the VN. This at most will be a graphic adventure like telltale games.
VNs normally focus on a story but a story that compliments the medium. You haven't really given us anything than concept.
Most times when people say "trust me" their the end of their rope on how to appeal to people.
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Percy Jackson and lane chronicles aren't exactly historical fiction. This one seems to take a more sci fi approach. I would call them more mythology based, which I do believe both western and Japanese VNs have an opportunity to show.
Now with the risk of sounding racist, I've had African American and African English (uk) fans of all mediums tend to push a particular culture. There's something about how it's handled. I've seen manga and other western comics take an already established mythology / religion and really build on it. But when it comes to African culture, I've never seen it taken with the right care. People tend to shonen it up or mangafy it. From what I see I don't see all these elements come together. I see them all clash together.
I've been burned badly in kickstarter (unsung story). I personally don't support something on kick starter solely based on my personal enjoyment but based on the idea of it bringing something new that people can build on.
I think this needs a lot of revisions. As it stands, it has a lot of flaws and a lot of gray areas. It doesn't look like a single focus. There was a reason why my vision of showing exemplary western VNs meant having more than one. And that's because if I tried to make a single VN that everyone can love, I'll end up with one that no one loves.
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1 hour ago, Black Sands Entertainment said:
Good input. I pulled most of these contrast from a megathread in the visualnovel subreddit. They were going hard on overused and underused things and when they spoke of underused, I basically hit most of them.
Its not a good idea to mash up all the underused things.
A VN after all is designed to be more of an interactive story than a full fledged game. That doesn't mean a full fledged VN doesn't have great story and great interactive game play. Just needs to have the right mixture in order to call itself a VN.
Tell me, what do you play VNs for? Story, character, lore, great game play?
Your ideas aren't too big, it's just all over the place. I think if people focused on making a great story, making sure VN is the best approach to tell the story and also not rely on past examples, you'd be surprised how great something can be.
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i love the idea of challenging VNs to uncharted territories and really redefining what people think Vn means. But with that said, i read your idea. Here are my thoughts:
the overall theme is reminiacent of an RPG. The idea of minigames, questing. J wouldnt call it something bad, but already shows you're not working on the strengths of a VN. I blame danganronpa a bit. Its explicitly labeled as a VN yet has barely any VN features.
Music i think should be good and fit the theme. If you want asian themes, i believe it should fit the theme. Even indie devs fall for the trap of pulling their pumches by putting something unnecessary. So i recommend doing your best to avoid it.
I doubt the common complaint is having a weak protagonist. In most cases i find the overly cool and overly silent protagonist. Your character is designed like an RPG.
As for the romance level. I personally think having options is good. But having one romance and one rival seems far too shallow.
I don't think my thoughts will sink in. But I definitely believe this misinterpreted what a good VN looks like. Trying to revolutionize VNs by adding more isn't what I consider a better VN.
I find it trying to go around the weaknesses of VNs. Not working on it's strengths.I also see it offers more of a learning curve. Yes you offer an encyclopedia. But I just don't think that It builds a great experience.
Too any ideas in one. It just doesn't look like a VN anymore. It looks like a graphic adventure.
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7 hours ago, Tay said:
Oh, weird! It's working for my phone. I'll look into it.
In the meantime, does long-pressing bring up a paste option for you?
Its not exactly my phone. When I do attempt to copy and paste. I get this:
"this HTML class. Value is"
Its not set up to rich text editor.
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On on smartphone and this site does not offer "rich text editor" format.
Its what allows me to modify quotes, copy and paste, And allows me to also use different color pallets. Normally, a forum gives you the option to switch between them.
I've been wanting to share my original story and it just isn't working. I can't manually write it down word for word.
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I never saw the grand appeal of steam before. I think the reasons are just because of valve.
A lot of triple A games are making it to steam. Valve has also equal opportunity to invest.
Yes, it is correct that steam is just another game host site. I think they push it to a different extent. But I do see devs thinking it's more than what it is.
Steam is the most popular place to go and it's difficult to really pinpoint the amazing ones. Especially when everyone wants be an Indie dev.
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Well let me know when it's fixed.
Alternative Art Style: Western targeted but would it alienate VN vets? (Amesemi)
in Visual Novel Talk
Posted
Honestly it depends where you promote your VN (?). The artstyle isn't just western, it's closer to western comics such as DC and Marvel.
This can flourish in smart phones. Thats all I can say. Your safest choice is not even targeting this toward vets.