Fuwanovel Magic The Gathering Thread

[Eldin]

1) you put in the 'remove first strike' effect. which is ridiculous really (also what would happen in the interaction of first strike vs double strike)

 

first strike is a keyword. the ability would remove that keyword. double strike is a separate keyword. nothing would happen.

 

2) Delver of secrets is a powerhouse. and derp

it's also a common. derp.

 

2a) also it's "possibly turn 2 if you build your deck around him"

what delver deck didn't build around him? also, how is that even an argument?

 

2b) it's actually "turn 1, he's a 1/1 with no ability really, but turn 2 if you built your whole deck around him, i.e. have over half your deck as spells then he can become a 3/2 flying on turn 2 but not as consistently"

what deck didn't build around him? again, how do you even consider that an argument? it's a common that turns into a 3/2 flyer. a 3/2, with evasion, in a control deck, from turn one.

 

2c) the fact that he's probably a bad mistake... is further proved by UWx Delver in standard's dominance, and how powerful UWR/RUG/etc variants in Legacy, as well as Mono U delver in pauper, and certain delver variants in modern. (note RUG runs him along with Goyf)

this is exactly my point though. you can say that you have to build around him, but the fact that a deck based around a common is doing this well in that many formats is kind of ridiculous.

 

2d) the derp is because they put ISD right after SOM block

:|

 

also you're saying 3/3's with flying that in the case of emancipation angel, the 2nd effect (the bounce effect) is actually considered as a card with a worse effect (therefore 1WW for a 3/3 flying still works out because it's in a vacuum the 1WW for 3/3 flying  >  1WW 3/3 flying that bounces your creature) and yes this is considered bad _unless_ you have a deck built around etb effects.

I was also talking strictly about limited, I even said that, where a 3/3 flyer dropped on turn 3, even if you're just bouncing a land and losing your fourth turn drop, can win you games. when you also have good etb effects she is amazing, and is far more common in limited than a rare would be.

 

...."with the power level of creatures in standard/modern right now, as is, she's actually kind of average."

Yeah no, not with the creatures in standard. especially with THS

her first strike removal may as well not exist because it's completely irrelevant in theros standard, the 2w in her cost keeps her out of most multi-color decks, she gets outraced by red deck wins which can pretty much completely ignore her and still win turn 5-6, and control just laughs at her. pushing her to 4 cost would have her see play as often as seraph of the sword, which might as well remove first strike because it doesn't do dick to her.

 

no multi-color deck could run her if she cost 3 white, no deck period would run her if she cost 4 especially with 3 white, dropping her toughness only makes her weaker against a deck that already wouldn't care that she exists, and dropping her power would make her completely unplayable. she would barely effect limited and even then no more than any other good rare.

 

I challenge you to name one deck where her ability to remove first strike is more relevant than the fact that she has first strike, because she's not blocking if she's in an aggro deck and she's not being played early enough to do anything useful in anything but an aggro deck. the only creature that can have first strike that I can think of that's actually competitive is boros reckoner, which kills her regardless of either of them having first strike.

 

she's good, but I think you think she's far far better than she actually is. she's no baneslayer.

[zhurai]

 

first strike is a keyword. the ability would remove that keyword. double strike is a separate keyword. nothing would happen.

 

it's also a common. derp.

 

what delver deck didn't build around him? also, how is that even an argument?

 

what deck didn't build around him? again, how do you even consider that an argument? it's a common that turns into a 3/2 flyer. a 3/2, with evasion, in a control deck, from turn one.

 

this is exactly my point though. you can say that you have to build around him, but the fact that a deck based around a common is doing this well in that many formats is kind of ridiculous.

 

:|

 

I was also talking strictly about limited, I even said that, where a 3/3 flyer dropped on turn 3, even if you're just bouncing a land and losing your fourth turn drop, can win you games. when you also have good etb effects she is amazing, and is far more common in limited than a rare would be.

 

her first strike removal may as well not exist because it's completely irrelevant in theros standard, the 2w in her cost keeps her out of most multi-color decks, she gets outraced by red deck wins which can pretty much completely ignore her and still win turn 5-6, and control just laughs at her. pushing her to 4 cost would have her see play as often as seraph of the sword, which might as well remove first strike because it doesn't do dick to her.

 

no multi-color deck could run her if she cost 3 white, no deck period would run her if she cost 4 especially with 3 white, dropping her toughness only makes her weaker against a deck that already wouldn't care that she exists, and dropping her power would make her completely unplayable. she would barely effect limited and even then no more than any other good rare.

 

I challenge you to name one deck where her ability to remove first strike is more relevant than the fact that she has first strike, because she's not blocking if she's in an aggro deck and she's not being played early enough to do anything useful in anything but an aggro deck. the only creature that can have first strike that I can think of that's actually competitive is boros reckoner, which kills her regardless of either of them having first strike.

 

she's good, but I think you think she's far far better than she actually is. she's no baneslayer.

@#1: true, but effect is still blue.

 

@delver: Yes, and a fucking mistake.

and stop saying turn one lol. Cause it's not.

 

@commons:

Ok, that's true, pauper is fucking ridiculous, Heard of T2-3 wins? (banned but... w/e)

Also Cloud of Fae.

 

@limited: Sure.

 

@balancing:

- first strike: Yeah but I'm talking about multiple formats here yo.

- I don't agree with the T4 part making the creature useless unless you mean Legacy or Modern. (also this changes based on what sets are in rotation)

- since when were most rares in a set good? you want to make a set that's made out of rares that are too good? hoookay

 

@the name one deck: Except that's not what I'm talking about lol. I'm just saying it purely from what the card costs, not the meta built around the format at the moment o0

 

Also I never said she was extremely fucking good omg kind of thing. I'm mainly just saying I don't agree with where you put your costs.

 

How about this:

This is why we neither of us are actually balancing cards for MTG mmkay?

 

....................(then again this card isn't going to be played as it's not made/distributed in MTG/O, and this discussion about the balancing of the card isn't really relevant to this topic. more like for something in Games & Chatter or another MTG related topic than one based on the _actual_ game...)

 

EDIT: I should note I'm on the fence about the WWW vs WW, but I still think it should be 4 cmc (2WW), but w/e I don't really need to design and balance a card like R&D anyways. (I'm more interested in playing the game and winning. >.>)

[Eldin]

and stop saying turn one lol. Cause it's not.

you're dropping him turn one. almost every burn spell that can kill him flipped kills him not, and he almost always flips turn two. he is a threat from turn one, so I will always say turn one.

 

- first strike: Yeah but I'm talking about multiple formats here yo.

wouldn't be played in pauper or peasant, at any higher cost or any lower power wouldn't be played in standard or modern, not playable in legacy or vintage, does nothing in multiplayer commander, decent at best in solo commander. limited she's really good if you see her early, late game she's meh. you're probably never going to see more than one of her at the table, half of your games she probably won't even see play.

 

- I don't agree with the T4 part making the creature useless unless you mean Legacy or Modern. (also this changes based on what sets are in rotation)

assuming you're talking about bumping her to 4 cost, it would absolutely make her useless. at four cost you'd be better off playing seraph of the sword since first strike is only seen on one competitive creature, who kills both angels regardless of whether or not it actually has first strike. in fact, why would you even play her at all if you could just play boros reckoner instead.

 

- since when were most rares in a set good? you want to make a set that's made out of rares that are too good? hoookay

since when are every rare in a set terrible? why would you prefer 10 cent rares for 5 dollar commons?

 

@the name one deck: Except that's not what I'm talking about lol. I'm just saying it purely from what the card costs, not the meta built around the format at the moment o0

but that kind of is, pre-theros you could just play geist of saint traft at the 3 cost spot. current meta you could just play boros reckoner. both of those creatures, for the same cost, are just flat out better than her. she might see play in mono-white aggro in both of those formats in standard, and maybe in modern, perhaps even fringe play in commander, but she would hardly warp those formats and probably wouldn't even see play at all in top 8. flying first strike at 3/3 for 3 is pretty good, but suggesting she go up to 5, even 4 cmc for the same thing is absurd.

 

if the card were printed in avacyn block, rav block, m14, or theros (which she wouldn't because there are no angels on theros), she would have almost no impace on the meta. she's just not good enough.

 

Also I never said she was extremely fucking good omg kind of thing

but she's good enough that you would make her unplayable... compare her to seraph of the sword. seraph takes no combat damage, so she effectively removes first strike and gains first strike against anything without trample. she's better in that double strike is also worthless against her in whatever format you would fight something with double strike. against anything that either of them cannot kill on their own, seraph of the sword still survives to block another day, where bladebane just dies. give either of them death touch and the other creature dies while your angel survives, unless the other creature has double strike in which case bladebane dies as well.

 

seraph of the sword, if she were at 3cmc, is argueably better than bladebane angel. bladebane comes out ahead when you double block with her, but seraph comes out ahead in every other situation. seraph of the sword is flat out unplayable at 4cmc in any competitive format. why would you think that bladebane would be playable at 4cmc+?

 

edit: removal of abilities showed up first on a white card, not a blue card, and there are more white cards that remove abilities than blue. most of white's removes all abilities, but I feel that there's a strong enough presence of taking things from creatures that a white card with this effect isn't really out of place on the color pie.

 

....................(then again this card isn't going to be played as it's not made/distributed in MTG/O, and this discussion about the balancing of the card isn't really relevant to this topic. more like for something in Games & Chatter or another MTG related topic than one based on the _actual_ game...)

I dunno, i'm enjoying this conversation

[Kaguya]

I'll make a fuwa magic deck soon, like the yugioh one. I'll keep editing this post as I make cards <3

[shcboomer]

I'll make a fuwa magic deck soon, like the yugioh one. I'll keep editing this post as I make cards <3

Seems cool, looking forward to it.

[Eldin]

 

hmm... this card looks so familiar, but I can't remember from where...

[shcboomer]

At least it's semi balanced in cost to effect.

[Izuru]

I'll make a fuwa magic deck soon, like the yugioh one. I'll keep editing this post as I make cards <3

I Like Card Games Looking Forward To It ^^

[zhurai]

Modern:

- DRS Banned

- Bitterblossom Unbanned

- Wild Nacatl Unbanned

 

Hmmm... @DRS: well it was _good_ lol, I mean people used it in burn.  I'm gonna like that there's less lifegain so my burn can be fun except vs Soul Sisters or something.

 

@Bitterblossom: UB or grixis fae?.   Would make it hard for tempo twin though (when they shift themselves to be a tempo instead of going for the combo, e.g. postboard).  all-in combo would be ok, but jund if it survives could be hard because of the distruption?  (well I'll just wait and see~... altthough I was thinking of going for tempo twin. I have most of the cards on mtgo for all-in variant but yeah.  welpjund)

 

@wild nacatl: hi naya zoo.... I'd go for it, except goyf's are expensivvvve

[shcboomer]

Deathrite Shaman ban was coming, there had to be a piece of Jund to cut. It was seeing a bit too much play and did way too much at a 1-drop.

 

Bitterblossom: Faeries aren't a thing right now and it was banned back then due to how strong it was with faeries.

 

Wild Nacatl: This never really should have been banned in the first place. It literally killed Zoo as a deck after this ban. The card was good, but not ban worthy imo.

[Eldin]

Myself and a few friends have started a new EDH deck project that I felt I should share with the rest of you. It's an Esper combo deck that runs 20ish tutor effects and enough mana rocks to get everything you need set up by turn 5. It's goal is to get in there fast, do it's job, and then go make a sandwich while everyone else fights it out. hence the name, "Because I'd Rather Go Make a Sandwich".

 

The idea of the deck is to get out an infinite white mana source, get a Chronosavant into the graveyard, Chronomantic Escape, and then skip your next infinite turns. Ideally you'd also want a Glacial Chasm in play so nobody can deal burn damage to you either.

 

We've been playing the deck a few times over the past few weeks and it really only dies to mill and drain strategies. At the end of the game, the last person either concedes because they have no way to resupply their deck and draw out, or we consider it a draw and move on.

 

Weird decks like this make me love EDH.

[zhurai]

First big-name modern tourney tomm post-ban  (GP Vienna)

 

Waiting till after that to actually choose a deck to build to (also my RWb burn deck probably needs to be updated.... the manabase is really suicidal = bad in mirrors o.<) 

[Zenophilious]

I only play the physical card game version    Still fun as hell, though.  Really loving aggro decks right now.  I even beat my cousin with one that I got, and he's pretty experienced in playing and making his own decks.

[zhurai]

The new Legacy meta is so silly now with Treasure Cruise

 

Then again the whole Modern/Standard is really messed up cause Ascendancy/Treasure Cruse as well

[arakura]

I dont know much about the meta because I've been out of it ever since the mental misstep ban, but my brother recently-ish finished his 0-land deck and he wants me to play it in a tournament, so I'm looking forward to that xD. So gimpy ^^

 

Merfolk, Goblins, and 12 Post are still my favourite decks of all time though. Ravnica best set (green/white agro was amazing during Ravnica <3)

[zhurai]

I dont know much about the meta because I've been out of it ever since the mental misstep ban, but my brother recently-ish finished his 0-land deck and he wants me to play it in a tournament, so I'm looking forward to that xD. So gimpy ^^

 

Merfolk, Goblins, and 12 Post are still my favourite decks of all time though. Ravnica best set (green/white agro was amazing during Ravnica <3)

I'm assuming the 0 land deck is manaless dredge? (that's the only one I can think of that can play 0 lands) (actually there's 2 versions of manaless.. one that uses dryad arbor to help with sideboard against hate - so it can kill anti graveyard enchants .... the other just folds mainly to them, but has a T1-2 wincon via Balustrade Spy by decking yourself.... to win)

 

Most of the recent builds of manaless dredge is the balutstrade spy build though.

 

merfolk is only sometimes popular now, goblins isn't so popular when combo is about, 12 post floats around here and there

 

 

right now UR Delver + UWr Miracles are the most popular.... UR Delver mainly because of Treasure Cruise being a free U for drawing 3 cards

Burn is legit now because of eidolon of great revel... to an extent

Infect is having a resurrgence of some sort

Elves is doing well (and what I'm looking to sleeve up on MTGO other than Burn) - 2nd place in the SCG Legacy tourney.  Only it fails vs UWr Miracles

Shardless BUG (Midrange BUG) was putting up a lot of numbers but apparently it's less popular now with Treasure Cruise

Deathblade (UW Stoneblade with black) apparently got 1st place in the SCG legacy tourney.   you get to play with TNN + Stoneblade... and Treasure Cruise too

UWR Delver is being somewhat tested (as batterskull makes you go over the top of UR Delver) I hear but unsure

 

at least those are what I see on MTGO/SCG Legacy meta (on mtggoldfish+scg's website)

[arakura]

Yea it's dredge w/ spy. If you're interested, I can look for the specific build. It's really funny because unless you're acquainted with the deck you have no clue what's going on, and it has surprisingly many answers to cards like the Tabernacle at Pandrell Vale our glacial chasm.

Maybe I'll actually build a deck this year... I have three fourths of goblins, most of merfolk (minus those darn Forces, but I don't think merfolk is very strong in this nomisstep meta, but not sure), and I could build an economy 12 Post if I skip out on the duals and some fetch aha

This article made me happy: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28615_Post-Good-Results-Why-12-Post-is-Poised-for-Todays-Legacy.html

[zhurai]

Yea it's dredge w/ spy. If you're interested, I can look for the specific build. It's really funny because unless you're acquainted with the deck you have no clue what's going on, and it has surprisingly many answers to cards like the Tabernacle at Pandrell Vale our glacial chasm.

Maybe I'll actually build a deck this year... I have three fourths of goblins, most of merfolk (minus those darn Forces, but I don't think merfolk is very strong in this nomisstep meta, but not sure), and I could build an economy 12 Post if I skip out on the duals and some fetch aha

This article made me happy: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28615_Post-Good-Results-Why-12-Post-is-Poised-for-Todays-Legacy.html

 

@manaless: except the problem with manaless in general is that you will most likely fold to T0 leyline of the void, if you were mana based dredge (that uses self draw/discard cards to get stuff in the graveyard), then you would be able to work against leyline better though  (that's the consession you take by playing the deck)

 

@article: actually looking at that post, I'm not sure if that article stands as true at the moment, because Khans and even Theros changed up the Legacy metagame a lot.

 

looking at the comments, that list is weak vs the faster delver lists, and we so happen to have a buffed UR Delver list that's just built to kill people, Also I think you could have troubles then vs UG Infect (ignores your early game glimmerposts), and possibly even elves (they can hit you on T2... actually UG infect too I think), but as I haven't playtested (as I don't play those other simulation software - just MTGO atm) I'm unsure.

 

so if anything you can't copy it verbatim and have it work pretty well, but it can be tuned (just need to watch the meta very closly at your LGS... as all control decks are... and then tune it accordingly)

[Lefon]

Just add me on steam if you want to play 2015 with me ^^. Same name as on Fuwa and i have the guy fawkes mask.

[arakura]

The manaless dredge definitely is hard counter-able. My brother says the best strategy if to load the deck with cheesy mechanisms so you can win the first game, and then hope for a lucky win on the second or third match with a sideboard ocused on countering hate (no-cost counterspells and the like. I'm not that familiar with the deck yet). As for the 12 Post, I didnt plan on copying it exactly. I've played several versions of 12 Post (though to be honest there are only a few cards that are subject to change as well as the number of titans), but I completely agree with the pithing needle. Wasteland is BRUTAL.

 

Also I was unaware of a steam mtg player... I'll look into it 0.0

I tried cockatrice, but... not very slick

[Life]

I have always liked playing around with G/U decks regardless of the block. I was very happy with the theros block and how that influenced G/U. Not sure how well it will go now with the new blocks. Anyway, I have only played with cards and not online.

[zhurai]

The manaless dredge definitely is hard counter-able. My brother says the best strategy if to load the deck with cheesy mechanisms so you can win the first game, and then hope for a lucky win on the second or third match with a sideboard ocused on countering hate (no-cost counterspells and the like. I'm not that familiar with the deck yet). As for the 12 Post, I didnt plan on copying it exactly. I've played several versions of 12 Post (though to be honest there are only a few cards that are subject to change as well as the number of titans), but I completely agree with the pithing needle. Wasteland is BRUTAL.

 

Also I was unaware of a steam mtg player... I'll look into it 0.0

I tried cockatrice, but... not very slick

well manaless dredge is like vintage dredge in that respect.  best to build multiple of these types of decks (Since they are cheap) and shift around so people's SB's are slower to react, such as go from Burn (which requires like certain counterspells, leyline of sanctity, whatever or so in their SB) to Dredge (which requires more graveyard hate), to something else, etc.

 

Let's just say for these types of decks in legacy, just 2-3 slots in the sideboard sometimes isn't enough to cover it

 

e.g. say we're playing dredge and the opponent only put like 3 anti graveyard hate in their sb

60 card deck that let's just say it doesn't have things like deathrite, just noting/other hate indirectly

Manaless dredge wins on T2-4

and let's assume you draw first (not play first), and no mulligans

T1 = Opponent draws 7 cards, on the play (7/60)

T2 = draw (8/60)

T3 = draw (9/60)

T4 = draw (10/60)

so unless they have filtering cards (that somewhat help) e.g. top/brainstorm/etc that can help with penetration for about 1-3 more cards... 10/60 chance to draw maybe like 5 specific cards is gonna be hard, so they'll have to mulligan, in which case (unless it's leyline of the void) you have your anti-hate cards.

 

Vintage dredge is like completely allin on baazar + Serum Powder in which it usallly wins game 1, and hopes to win in one of the following turns.... which is why vintage decks have like 10 slots in their SB just to fight vintage dredge

and it's still viable.

 

12 Post though, since UR Delver's actually extremely popular atm, it might be worth just sleeving it up but waiting until the meta shifts again (to more midrangy/control type decks once they find out how to deal with the new UR Delver)

 

steam mtg is basically duels of the planeswalkers

 

 

I have always liked playing around with G/U decks regardless of the block. I was very happy with the theros block and how that influenced G/U. Not sure how well it will go now with the new blocks. Anyway, I have only played with cards and not online.

Khan's is more based off shards than guilds atm, but I haven't been paying much attention to Standard/Block (heard that jeskai ascendancy is pretty good there I heard but /shrug)

 

Mainly focusing on Modern/Legacy atm online (probably play physical/cards once I get more money or so...)

Probably can't do Modern on MTGO and play KhanBlock, but I have to research it though.

[Life]

I have preferred to modern (a lot of money is used if anyone tries playing standard all the time) but it is always interesting to see how new blocks fit into the meta.

[arakura]

Yea, the reason he built it was because he loves decks that make you think and it's super cheap. He wad telling me that they would sideboard in some one cost artifact that made him lose if they got it off (idk which card specifically) and they would mull down to three or four to find it, giving them around twenty five different cards to draw to find one of the three or four I'm their deck. Sounds like good odds to me, though the reshuffling does lower the probability a good bit

Double post accidentally

Anyone remember type two storm goblins?

I've never played modern, really. I don't recall it being a thing when I played years ago.

[Lefon]

I'll make a fuwa magic deck soon, like the yugioh one. I'll keep editing this post as I make cards <3

God speed can't wait to see waht you come up with.