The IP Wars, Part Deux

[sanahtlig]

Because blogs are an awful place to have a discussion.

Branching off from the discussion here: http://visualnovelaer.fuwanovel.net/2013/08/dmm-co-jp-doing-50-off-sale-on-all-bishoujo-game-titles/

sanahtlig

“Personally I wouldn’t buy anything unless a shared copy of it is not available, or you think it will save you time trying to find one.”

I’m utterly dumbfounded by this statement. Do you think eroge grow on trees? While I’ve decided personally that I’m not interested in supporting the Japanese market, I would never have the gall to recommend that people not buy titles they’re interested in. Even hardcore pirates usually realize that others buying stuff is better for everyone involved.

Aaeru

no because they provide no better service than that what could be had with a torrent. this is just another rent-seeking middle-man organization that are providing you a service at several thousand percent the marginal cost.

because what are you buying? they're not printing you a coloured box. There's no goodies. they are printing you a few gigabytes. the cost of doing that is so cheap, it can be had for free, not because it is actually free, but because other people bid the price lower and lower, until, they literally just do it for free (because the expense to themselves is small enough). this is what happens when the $300 copying machine floods the market. people started volunteering their expensive machines to help each other. or did you think that they stole the copies and didn't pay for it before they were able to share it?? Nope. they had to buy it first.

I recommend preordering the company's latest game so that at least you get bedsheets or tapestry or coloured cardboard box. not to mention at least you can be assured 50~% of your money will go to the studio.

buying from that DMM site is not a good deal. because it's a black box. (how much money are you taking for yourself? how much for the artist????) it is only worth it if u think it is more convenient than to locate a shared copy for yourself, which i doubt it. not to mention you are encouraging them to stay on a model of not producing anything that other ppl already produce for cheaper.

but if you want to support that then go ahead!

These people are merely a continuation of a line of anachronistic ideas that survived from 17th century mercantilism under the disguise of author's rights. In their misguidance, they support the governments continued effort to teach us propaganda like, "printing = theft", so that other ignorant people fall in line, so that they don't have to compete in a free market!

No! These are not rights. Stop lying to us. These are statutory monopoly privileges to benefit private parties at the expense of other parties.

"Near the top of the list of the Pirate Party's demons is copyright protection, and rightly so. Copyright protection is an antiquated relic of the late Middle Ages that has no place in the digital era. It is debatable whether such government-granted monopolies were ever the best way to finance the production of creative and artistic work, but now that the internet will allow this material to be instantly transferred at zero cost anywhere in the world, copyrights are clearly a counter-productive restraint on technology."

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/05/2012514204029381972.html

Read your constitution. To promote the progress of 'Learning'... by securing for a limited Time (14 years) to Authors... the exclusive right to their respective Writings and Discoveries. exclusive right is a form of monopoly.

14 Aug 2013 04:08 am

sanahtlig

"no because they provide no better service than that what could be had with a torrent."

It's not a service. It's a funding model. You aren't paying for the bandwidth. You're funding the development costs of the work. Saying "I'm not going to pay for a game unless it comes with X goodies" doesn't make any sense. People don't buy games for merchandise (if you do, well you're getting seriously ripped off). They buy games for games. The merchandise almost by definition isn't worth what you're paying for it.

If your only dispute is with the funding model, then dispose with the rhetoric and simply say "You shouldn't purchase intellectual property that already exists. You're cheating yourself. Software development should only be funded prospectively, then freely distributed. This is the only valid model."

14 Aug 2013 04:08 am

Aaeru

sanahtlig, it’s a shit place to shop because it cheats the majority of your amount you paid away from where you want it to go (to developers) and into the pockets of people who produce things worth 0.001cent then sell them at insane markup.

I redirect people to preorders for the newest games (http://visualnovelaer.fuwanovel.net/2013/06/irotoridori-no-sekai-worlds-end-complete-tokuten-showcase-nsfw-fan-translation-at-85/), because that is how to make your money work harder, for yourself AND the industry. Not to mention the users will actually get real valuable goods (such as tapestries) that they can’t print for themselves with their own equipment. I also tell people to go buy directly at the official stores such as omnishop for kogado, and I usually recommend buying merchandise.

14 Aug 2013 06:08 am

Aaeru

No the reason why the entire eroge industry has shifted to merchandise, is because due to technological changes, the things they used to sell aren’t selling as well anymore and so the market has forced them to adapt. Take a look at the first link for daitoshokan on their website (a popular eroge from 2012) http://www.august-soft.com/daito/products.html

you can either get:

1) the premium pack with all those goodies u see on the page (2 nendoroid, music CD, dakimakura, TWO artbooks + store tokuten), or

2) the limited standard pack with 100 page artbook + the bedsheets or daki or whatever u get from store tokuten.

So what they are selling now, is merchandise that is worth your price of admission, PLUS, the sensation of being a patron and supporting a favourite company. And that includes the huge and wonderfuly coloured cardboard box which u open to find a tiny DVD in it.

This is how you entice customers to pay, by providing real valuable goods that equal or exceed the amount that the customer will be paying when the transaction takes place.

14 Aug 2013 06:08 am

sanahtlig

Are you saying DMM takes a larger than usual cut of the profits? I have no special knowledge of that particular site. Digital downloads are usually the most efficient means to support the developer (meaning they make the greatest profit per purchase). Minori commented that preorders with lots of goodies are actually not cost-effective for them (they make more profit per sale from sales of the regular edition).

"This is how you entice customers to pay, by providing real valuable goods that equal or exceed the amount that the customer will be paying when the transaction takes place."

I'm a bit puzzled by the notion that a piece of painted cardboard and a shiny coaster is more valuable than the content of the game itself. That's marketing material and a non-reuseable storage medium: not really valuable in and of itself. However, whether or not these are effective for achieving sales is outside the scope of my argument.

As for extras that "meet or exceed the amount the customer is paying"...that doesn't make any sense. Development costs are not being recouped if they're selling merchandise bundled with the game at break-even or a loss (i.e., sell $100 worth of merchandise bundled together with the game for $100). Let's say they do bundle $80 worth of merchandise with a game for $100. At that point, what are you even buying? You're buying merchandise with a game as an added bonus, not a game with merchandise as an added bonus. Who cares about the game at that point? They might as well get out of the game-making business and just sell merchandise.

14/08/2013 14 Aug 2013 08:08 am

sanahtlig

Also, I'm curious: when 3D printing becomes widespread, what then? At that point, even merchandise will become essentially "value-less", since all you'll need to print just about anything you want is some cheap raw materials and a blueprint (a digital file that could be mass propagated just like games are now). How do you reward creative talents then? How do you fund software?

[Kendjin]

I don't mind if it becomes an open discussion, if it becomes a one on one chat, I'd ask you to do it through another medium. PM or otherwise.

[Steve]

Well, Im tempted to join, although Im not sure if I have 2 hours to compile a post of my regular length xD

[RusAnon]

That discussion feels like you are arguing about different things.

You talk about initial game production costs that have to be covered by someone, Aaeru talks about costs to print new copies.

Aaeru's arguments apply well to bigger mediums like music, video and video games, but I don't think situation is same for VNs. There are no major "labels" who cut into dev's profits, and I don't think premiums online shops take exceed usual 20-30%.

Since many companies already have hard time to just get even, all fans HAVE to support games they like otherwise there will be no new games, its as simple as that.

[Darklord Rooke]

Since many companies already have hard time to just get even, all fans HAVE to support games they like otherwise there will be no new games, its as simple as that.

There was a really good blog post written by (much loved indie-developer) Jeff Vogel, about when it is okay to steal games/VNs/movies:

This blog post is about the bright side of software piracy. It's about the times when not only is it OK to steal my games, but, in fact, I get something out of it. Perhaps an unusual topic for a blog post from a game developer.

Of Course, Piracy Is Almost Always Wrong

I think that the best way of evaluating the morality of an action is to ask, "What would happen if everyone who wanted to do it did it?" Littering and dumping toxic waste into rivers are wrong because, if everyone who wanted to do those things did them, our streets would be choked with refuse and our drinking water would be half benzene. And pirating PC games is wrong because, were it not for that minority of worthy souls who actually chip in, the industry that makes the games we love would descend into a shadow realm of tiny ad-supported Flash games and Farmville. Some people would be cool with that, but I'm looking forward to playing Starcraft 2, thanks.

And I've now set myself up for 50 comments of increasingly overwrought and implausible justifications for why pirating games is a good, noble thing to do. No. Sorry. You don't get everything you want in this world. You can get piles of cool stuff for free. Or you can be an honorable, ethical being. You don't get both.

Most of the time.

Because, when I'm being honest with myself, which happens sometimes, I have to admit that piracy is not an absolute evil. That I do get things out of it, even when I'm the one being ripped off.

Computers Exist In the Third World

Every so often, I get an e-mail in broken English from some kid in Russia or southeast Asia or India. He says how how he is playing my game in a cyber-cafe, for fun and perhaps to practice English. The disparity in the strength of the currency between our two countries makes it impossible it is for him to get the 25 or 28 hard US dollars to buy my game. (It's entirely possible in much of the world to not be dirt poor and yet to be entirely unable to scrape together a chunk of hard U.S. dollars.) The message ends with a sincere and heart-rending plea for a registration key.

Now, you're probably thinking, "Yeah, the kid is probably making it up." I doubt it. Remember, my games are easy to pirate. Anyone who wants to steal my games can grab them any time he or she wants. Maybe some of these pleas are fake, but I'm sure that most aren't.

When I get one of these message, what I want to respond is, "PIRATE MY STUPID GAME!!!" I mean, seriously, the time used drafting that e-mail would have been much more profitably spent figuring out how BitTorrent works.

But I don't say that. I delete the e-mail unanswered. Because, the truth is that these games are how I feed my family. Asking me for free keys is simply not a behavior I want to encourage.

But I really hope those kids pirated my game. And I am sure that, for every such e-mail I received, a horde of others in faraway lands pirated it on their own. Sometimes, thanks to the vagaries of the international monetary order, my games are just out of reach any other way. And, when people enjoy my work, it gives my life meaning, which bring me to ...

The Recession Is a Thing That is Happening

These days, some people are legitimately poor. Many people, through a mix of poor fiscal choices and ill fortune, are in bad shape. Foreclosed on, or facing foreclosure. Trying to pay down a mountain of credit card debt. Unemployed for a long time. Lacking health insurance. Some people brush this growing population off, saying, "Oh, they brought it on themselves." And sometimes that is true. They made mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. I make mistakes. It's just that some people are unlucky enough to be savagely punished for their mistakes.

Someone who is facing long-term unemployment and bankruptcy probably should not pay for my game. And, in that case, if stealing my game gives them a temporary reprieve from their misery (and there's a lot of misery out there right now), I'm cool with that. I'm happy to help. These are my fellow citizens, and I want to help out how I can.

Now here is what I am NOT saying. If some kid has to actually save his allowance for a few weeks to buy the game, stealing it is instead of paying is not cool. I'm not OK with that. If you can pay, you should pay. But I understand that some people can't. It's reality. As for whether someone can truly pay or not, I have to trust them to be able to tell the difference. It's probably unwise to trust so many strangers so much with my livelihood on the line. But it's not like I have a choice.

How I Will Now Single-Handedly Solve the Problem of Piracy

I just have to add one thing, and then I can hopefully go without writing about this ugly topic for a good, long time. The way the economics of the business work right now, if you want good PC games, someone has to pay for them. You can't support a project like Starcraft 2 with ads. The money just isn't there.

If you like PC games but you usually pirate them, I want you to start actually paying for one game a year. Just one. Please. You should do it because you need to do it to help something you like to continue to exist. Sure, you might find that doing the virtuous thing feels surprisingly good. But, in the end, you should do it for the reason anyone ever really does anything: Because it is in your best interests to do so.

But what game should you pay for? It's tempting to say you should support some small Indie, like me, who is just working hard to support his family. But I don't believe that. The people who made Starcraft 2 have families to. No, buy the game that you feel most deserves to be rewarded. Who gave you the most fun, or carried the industry forward, or that you felt treated you fairly.

Maybe that game is Starcraft 2. Maybe it's Avernum 6 or Aveyond or Eschalon 2 or World of Goo or one of a million tiny games. It might even be Assassin's Creed 2. Could happen.

And, before you post flaming me because Piracy-Is-Always-Good or Always-Bad, remember that all I'm trying to do is pay a little visit to reality-land. And while I do get something out of piracy, all things being equal, it's better to pay for the thing you use. Again, with PC games, you can get cool free stuff, or you can be honorable. You don't get both. Once in a while, be part of the solution.

http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com.au/2010/07/sometimes-its-ok-to-steal-my-games.html

[RusAnon]

There was a really good blog post written by (much loved indie-developer) Jeff Vogel, about when it is okay to steal games/VNs/movies:

You shouldn't bundle VNs with movies and other media, because market structure here is completely different, and what works there doesn't work with VNs.

Many VN devs struggle to survive — its a known fact, and each sale matters.

[sanahtlig]

There was a really good blog post written by (much loved indie-developer) Jeff Vogel, about when it is okay to steal games/VNs/movies:

http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com.au/2010/07/sometimes-its-ok-to-steal-my-games.html

My stance is similar to, but probably less hardline than that. I regard piracy as freeloading rather than stealing. Sometimes freeloading might be appropriate (some people really, actually, truly don't have the means). I also don't see an obligation to support Japanese-language works. I agree that the categorical imperative is an appropriate guideline. If everyone freeloads, then these games can't be made. If you're among that number, then you better have a good reason why you're so special that you deserve not to contribute. If you can't be bothered to buy a single VN after playing scores of them, can you really call yourself a VN fan? Want to try before you buy? Fine--as long as you actually buy and aren't using this as an excuse. The worst type of pirate is the opportunist: the person who buys what he must and pirates the rest, the person who buys console games because they're too much trouble to pirate but comes up with a litany of excuses to play VNs without buying them. These people are the reason DRM exists, and that really ticks me off.

[Eldin]

I am all for buying an original, unopened copy of a game from the manufacturer. doing so ensures that the money i'm paying goes to people involved with the creation and distribution of the game. I don't mind how much of that money goes to who as long as I find it acceptably priced. It pays the creator and helps fund their next title, and it funds the distributors and keeps them interested in the creators. items that sell show that the creator is worth distributing for.

I won't buy second hand/used products. that product has already been payed for, and any money I pay to the person selling it goes directly into their pockets as profit. I could get the same thing for free from someone else with the exact same impact on the creators and distributors, since neither of them make any money from me buying it from someone who already payed for it. i'll buy it new or torrent it.

as for getting free goodies as a means of tempting my to buy something I was going to buy anyways? those are always cool, but I didn't buy the game/series for those. I bought the thing I bought because I wanted the thing I bought, not everything else that just so happened to come along with it. I would still have bought whatever I bought without them.

[Eri]

My stance is similar to, but probably less hardline than that. I regard piracy as freeloading rather than stealing. Sometimes freeloading might be appropriate (some people really, actually, truly don't have the means). I also don't see an obligation to support Japanese-language works. I agree that the categorical imperative is an appropriate guideline. If everyone freeloads, then these games can't be made. If you're among that number, then you better have a good reason why you're so special that you deserve not to contribute. If you can't be bothered to buy a single VN after playing scores of them, can you really call yourself a VN fan? Want to try before you buy? Fine--as long as you actually buy and aren't using this as an excuse. The worst type of pirate is the opportunist: the person who buys what he must and pirates the rest, the person who buys console games because they're too much trouble to pirate but comes up with a litany of excuses to play VNs without buying them. These people are the reason DRM exists, and that really ticks me off.

Pretty much agree with this, just based on what I've experienced and witnessed of others, though part of me thinks that DRM would exist even if only a handful of people pirated titles. I believe that a large part of preventable piracy revolves around service issues, and indicates a disconnect between production and consumption. :/

[zoom909]

I still apply the Fansubbers Code as a general rule of thumb. When the title is going to be officially localized/sold in your area/language, it's time to buy.

BTW, in manga, at least, I am proud(?) to be 100% compliant with IP law. All of my manga collection is genuine.