A 'Help Me' Thread, with relation to Visual Novels

[torbin12]

So, lots of people play All Ages, lots of people play 18+ versions, some people swear to one or the other solely.

My problem is that, for some reason, I can't seem to bring myself to play All-Ages VNs, although I don't know why. I tend not to play nukige, as I don't particularly like the over-saturation of sex, personally, although I have played some nukige, and liked some of it, alot. Even when playing something with just one or two Hscenes per route, I tend to basically just skip through the scenes, staying long enough just to read the story, and not really even pay much attention to the scene itself. So, why can't I play All Ages? I don't really care about the H-scenes, but it seems like, for some reason, if they're not there, I lost interest or something, in a VN that, from all other angles, I would love.

I think I'm mostly just venting, but this seems to be a very real, and very weird, problem for me :S

[Snowtsuku]

Why not try to play something short, like planetarian? It may change how you look at all ages VNs

[Steve]

dear torbin, I am glad you called hentai help line, we might be able to help you

Anyways, the thing is all-ages VNs have different structure over the ones that have H. It is not only about the one scene at the end or middle or whenever.

I haven't played that many to make it a rule but from what I've played, All-ages VNs tend to lack all sorts of sexual references, sexual talk, dark mature themes such as drugs, alcohol, rape and other forms which can be used as a great tool for character development.

And often (not always) they lack the one part that some of us westerners like in the VNs or how we call them Dating Sims - that being the actual dating. What is a dating sim without the dating - a story. And it can be hell of a good story, yet for me and maybe it is the same with you, it is not nearly enough.

Now it is not always true but then again you can see why not, I would take example of Little Busters - originally all-ages but due to demand, EX version was made with H-scenes (I will leave the quality of those scenes aside, some like it, some don't, its not important). The important part is that LB was structured as a game that would be great with H-scenes and that's why it wasn't that hard to add them. And as I already mentioned somewhere else, I actually played the H scenes from JP EX installation after finishing the girl's route. And I think the H fit there very well, especially with my favorite Kud route - there was a lot of romancing and blushing, the stuff I like about VNs, there was the dating which represented the dating sim name.

And then on the other hand you can take stuff like Ever 17, where I only played a single route and can't just like you bring myself to finishing it - I played the Sara route (obviously I choose the youngest looking girl there is xD), it was good, but no kiss, no romance, no blushing, no dating - ofc it was good but I would have to ask myself, wouldn't it be better as anime or a KN with maybe different chapters? For me it would. If I look at the mentioned Planetarian, it is a great story with great character, but it is short, it is like 4 hours kinetic experience with no choices. It doesn't need dating. If you have short story focused anime (like Madoka or something), it doesn't need dating, it is about story.

And thats also where the VN community splits, some are looking for a great story to read, they prefer reading with pictures maybe, instead of watching moving anime in that case - and those are the people who like only all-ages releases. But they would probably like chapter based kinetic novels as well if they were made that way. The choices are more like "what chapter do you want to read first". But then again they just might want to have some more control over the story and have it interactive - and whats why there is some market for all-ages VNs even in Japan.

Where as what I consider a good VN is a good dating sim, a simulation where the choices I make let me get closer to the girl I love, and the ultimate goal is that you get so close, you are practically inside her

And that's where the importance of H comes in - you could do without it if there was tons if kissing and blushing and a bed scene without H and the sex only mentioned - just like it can be in any other form of media we know, where it is romance based but it is not actually a porn - yet the thought of having sex is there. In Japanese VNs, they had the great idea - why not just make it all the way, including the sex scene as a part of the game - and it worked, it is unique. But it also needs to be marked 18+.

So again, for me and lot of others, it is dating sim genre, and just like in any other sim you use the simulation part to reach the state that you would reach in real life - in train sim you reach your destination after controlling the train so I expect in dating sim you reach one of the goals of dating - being the sex from love with the girl. In all-ages VN you could have the sex mentioned or implied, like in games like mass effect - but then since the genre is already developed like that, they can as well just make it 18+ and add the H scene there and make more money - that's why most all-ages VNs don't have much dating or dating related stuff like long kissing scenes and if they do, people will often tell you the H is missing from those.

So yeah, you are not alone, I am struggling with Rewrite now too, it is great story with great characters, but it is more like a fairy tale, people like each other and they save each other from problems and help each other and enjoy being together but they don't do the stuff that couples do, kissing, sex and all that - well at least in the 2 routes I played do far.

So yeah, I hope it helps and you can see that most all-ages VNs are targeted at different kind if audience who just want (great) interactive story.

For people that want as its in English called dating sim or in Japanese called eroge - erotic game, for those there is plenty of those with H because it is mostly necessary part of the genre, brings more storytelling means and character development tools which are not possible without it.

[Mikel]

Damn it Steve, I was planning on saying something, but you covered everything I wanted to say on your post xD

Personally I like VNs with H-scenes, even if I skip them, because it's more real, I mean, the point of dating a girl, well, not the point, but you know, if you date a girl you're supposed to have sex at some point, it feels more real for me if there is at least one H-scene per route.

[Zakamutt]

Tbh, I think the best VNs often combine a romance/interpersonal plot with a strong scenario. You can see this in F/SN and Ever17 (but not ever17 true route). That's why even scenario-based games usually have you target specific girls. I enjoy both sides of the "split". but I'm disappointed if there is too little romance at times (Aoishiro damn you). 999 didn't disappoint me though although the romance was pretty low, so I guess what I'm really looking for isn't complete immersion in the main character, but a good story told in first-person with added elements that help immersion and/or multiple scenarios.

Minor/SteveMedium-spoiler:Rewrite:Akane

Would you agree with me that sex with Akane is strongly implied in her route?

[torbin12]

Wow, Steve, that post definitely gets a +, I do believe you hit the proverbial nail on its metaphorical head. I couldn't really think about it, but after reading what you wrote, I think you're exactly right, that scene, even if I don't watch it, feels like "That's it". Man, lots of good thought material in there too. Thanks for the help everyone.

[Supah Kawaii Weeaboo]

I stumbled into the fan translation and EVN scenes years ago. In other words, I went from assuming that nearly every visual novel in English was NSFW, to realizing that there were a lot of small but fascinating games/stories that didn't have an obligatory sex scene. Since then, maybe half of the VNs that I have read have any adult content.

Lately, I've realized that while I will usually praise and sometimes buy an unconventional VN (one that lacks a harem or even love interests, one that lacks a slice of present-day life setting), I might not get around to reading it for quite some time. To be more specific, I bought Virtue's Last Reward and imported Remember11, but they're sitting on my shelf right now. Likewise, I want to support indie devs who create interesting games, but I'm just not that interested in computer games right now.

[jaxter0987]

Minor/SteveMedium-spoiler:Rewrite:Akane

Would you agree with me that sex with Akane is strongly implied in her route?

I'm inclined not to agree that its strongly implied. Since she's the older one in the relationship and the most mature of the girls, it definitely feels like Kotarou and Akane had a more adult relationship. That said, I don't think it was that heavily emphasized to say that sex was implied.

Don't read this unless you've finished Rewrite completely

I'd imagine that they'd eventually have sex considering the fact that they were banished from the closed world but it wasn't heavily implied. And technically, Kotarou is ten years older than all the girls, thanks to what happened with Kagari but that's beside the point.

I really don't mind if a VN is All-Ages or 18+ as long as nothing was changed from the original work. So 18+ to All-Ages releases bug me to no end. And like others of have said, Steve pretty much explained everything I would have tried to convey.

[Metaler]

I think Steve nailed it.

I can play All-ages games just fine, but if someone gives me an eroge with the ero removed, it feels like the game is lacking something. To me, ero is more than fap material: it's part of the experience. Eroge with no ero is like pasta with no sauce. Whenever I stumble upon an h-scene, even if they're not very good I'll still feel like my attachment with the characters has grown even more. It feels like it ends up being more about bonding than about fapping.