Mkilbride
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Posts posted by Mkilbride
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Well. At least something is happening.
The major complaint is this:
All Ages Version: 10$
18+ Version : 20$
Now, in the All Ages version, let's just use for example, you get a 8 to 10 hour story. So for 10$, you get 8-10 hours of content.
Then you pay 10$ for the 18+ patch. It adds roughly 20 additional minutes of content to the story. The difference is too much. You're paying 10$ for 10 hours, or 1$/hour, and then it skyrockets to 2$/minute
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I've played Sekien no Inganock and loved it. In the middle of Sharnoth and like it was well. They're just unique from other VNS on the market, I guess. Very wordy. Very dramatic.
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See...I'm not going to be a fuddy duddy and say Rape isn't a topic that can be funny, but it doesn't matter to me if the "Girls go along with it", after they're done crying, screaming, and he does it in front of their husbands, family members, or they're raped by some monster ect, for "Comedic effect". Rance certainly is "funny", but...I wouldn't classify it as humor for everyone. Also you skip all the sex scenes? That's all Rance is about. Literally. There is no plot, each game is Rance with " I wanna fuck every girl in sight" - That's the same plot, every game, it never gets more in depth or has any twists. I'm just saying if you don't Rape as a humorous topic, Rance can may not be that funny to some people.
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Versus all the other VNS out there, Liarsoft has not only a unique art style compared to pretty much every VN, but their writing is so...different too, it's hard to explain, but it comes across as more "Genuine", i/e, the way people think and talk. They do re-use alot of dialogue for dramatic effect, of course, but still, their VNs stand out from others because pretty much every other VN uses a similar art style / reads the same. When you read a Liarsoft VN, much like a Type-Moon VN, you -know- who made it. By their writing style & art style alone. I really appreciate them going the extra mile for stuff like that. Nitroplus, at least their older works, also has a consistent style to them.
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1 minute ago, Rooke said:
The Witcher 3 is successful because of its scope, not because of its marketing philosophies. Bethesda is more successful than CD Projekt yet sell DLC like water (horse armour anyone?) DLC won't ever 'go away' because the industry is moving away from distributing a large lump of content (finalised game) which is then bought in a single transaction. This isn't the 90s anymore, the distribution of content through digital means is a thing and therefore will be taken advantage of. The idea of updating content, or adding content, to a package readily is too convenient to ignore.
Also, CD Projekt started off owning GOG (localising games like BG2 to the Polish audience IIRC) and then branched out into dev work. Not the other way around.
Ok, so I see that on wiki, then why where there a dozen news articles about CD Projecft Red buying GoG back in 2011?
All I am saying is now that CD Projekt is considered "The Standard by which all developers are judged by" these days, in recent articles, due to their habit of releasing hours of free content for their games, which earns them nothing - short term, but long term, it created them a huge fanbase which made them successful. They almost had to file for Bankruptcy with TW2. But it endeared the community to them, and now they're a "Huge" studio. Still Indie though, they self-publish.
Regardless, this argument is going nowhere. It's just too different to compare, our thoughts and the markets. I for one don't believe a 18+ patch should cost even a dime more.
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And their biggest market is the 18+ users. People also don't buy games they see as failures, sales wise. Most people who will buy the Steam, All Ages versions, are fans of the 18+ versions, whom hope a patch will be coming later. SO if you charge for it, or don't do it, you directly cut into your own sales.
Take a page out of CD Projekt Reds handbook. They want the practice of DRM & DLC to go away. That has been their motto since TW1EE. Where has that gotten a small Indie dev studio? Well, they now own GoG. They produced The Witcher 3, which has sold over 10M units, and is the highest rated RPG of all time on Metacritic. So it seems that strategy works out for them.
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Sex scenes are expensive to make as the entire game? My god. The delusion.
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I'm just shocked the 18+ Version costs more at all. Every big name VN that released on Steam usually releases 18+ patches for it for free. So the fact this is even a thing, is shocking.
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1 hour ago, RikiSanic said:
The problem with these pricing discussions is that just because it might be the most fair to you doesn't actually mean it makes business sense. Setting the Steam price for $15 and the patch price for $5 presents us with one dilemma: now Steam users have to pay 5 extra dollars for a VN that's already pretty short and has less content than the original. Honestly, I think it'd make more sense to explore 12 to 8 pricing ratios instead, rather than half and half. Regardless, though, if you want the 18+ version you're paying the same thing no matter what the patch is priced at.
I wonder if people would be more comfortable paying $10 more for 18+ content if the Steam version was in the $30 range? Right now Princess Evangile is on Steam for $34.99, whereas it is $44.95 on MangaGamer's store. That's a $10 difference, and there isn't even an option of upgrading via patch.
The real solution to this "if only the price were lower" discussion is using sales to capture more buyers. Personally, I've been somewhat interested in buying Princess Evangile for a while now but MangaGamer's store has infrequent and insignificant sales and even Steam has only ever had a 20% discount even though it's been out for over a year now.
These pricing discussions would matter less if some VNs depreciated in value more fairly. And as long as both the adult and Steam versions have a discount at the same time, the best option for people not comfortable with the price would be to wait. Seems fair to me.
For example, both Clannad and Grisaia got 50% discounts less than a year after release and practically doubled their sales numbers in both cases, becoming some of the best selling VNs ever sold at that price range (obviously, the anime effect also plays a big role).
By the way, if you want the best price everyone should seriously consider backing the Indiegogo campaigns for these VNs. The 18+ version of KARAKARA was $10, and Corona Blossom's was $15. You get them much cheaper just for pre-ordering.
More than Doubled. Clannad has around 7,500 sales. It went on sale for 50% off and now has over 30,000 sales on Steam. Price is a big factor. Most people think VNs are too expensive. Voice acting, art, it's expensive, I get that, and some VNs last 30 to 50 hours - some even more, however these days that's not as amazing of a value as it used to be. The Witcher 3 is regularly on sale for 30$ or under. The newest Muv Luv hit Steam for 35$. Muv Luv + Unlimited, if you do -all- the routes will last you probably 50ish hours. Most people won't do them all though, as little changes between Unlimited's endings. However, for 30$, you can get The Witcher 3, which cost 81M to make. Which has hundreds and hundreds of hours of -unique- content. I understand VN's are priced high due to the fact they aren't expected to get the sales numbers of a big game...but I think the market has changed and it's a mistake. Clannad launched @ 50$ on Steam. 50 freaking dollars, for a VN! Now that price was normal in Japan, but in the West, the market is still small, and famous series aren't heard of, or known, nor the genre. All they know is this company wants 50$ for some still pictures, voices, and text. Meanwhile a company that has fully 3D Animated graphics, voices as well, actual gameplay, ect, costs the same or less. It took more money to develop the game.
It also has to do with age. Alot of these VN's are 10 years old, like Clannad & Muv Luv. Paying what is seen as FULL price for them? Maybe that makes sense in Japan, but in the West, digital games / products tend to get cheaper with age...not stay the same. Also the reason physical VNS copies sold for so much was the whole limited run thing, but now that they're digital? It plainly does not make sense to pay 50$ for a VN, no matter what VN. I managed to grab Muv Luv on Steam for 15$ from a Fuwa User. I could just have easily as pirated it - but I didn't, because 15$ was what I valued the game as, as someone who already played it and knows how good it is. Talk is off Alternative being nearly 50$ as well at release - and it's long, for sure. 60ish hours in length. It's quality, no doubt...but 50$? 50 + 35$ = 85$ for the complete game? They have to realize, that won't sell. They should be trying for lower price, more sales, make up for it in quantity. Would you rather 10,000 sales @ 50$, or 60,000 sales @ 20$? The more people who buy it, the more worth of mouth spreads as well, which leads into more sales.
Simply put: VNS are too expensive in the West, especially games that were created over a decade ago, going for full price on Steam. They want the market to grow, they have to stop pricing so high. Perceived value is important, especially with Steam sales, where you can pay 5$ and get some game that'll give you 300+ hours of enjoyment.
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Well then yeah, Majikoi.
Also, despite what people say aobut it, Muv Luv Extra can be pretty damn funny at times, though it also has moments where they do drama bits. But so does Majikoi. I never found Rance to be "funny", but I did enjoy the unique world setting and all that, but it's really only 'funny" if you consider Rance fucking everything that moves, with consent or not, hilarious. Beyond that, there's no real humor. I played Edelweiss a long time ago, but I do remember it having alot of funny moments. I can recommend that one for a look as well.
The description doesn't paint it as a comedy and more of a generic Eroge, but trust me, it can be quite funny.
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Sengoku Rance...I can't play that game because I hate being timed. Rance is all about properly using your time. I hate that feeling of "Oh, 3 horus ago I decided to xo this instead of that, and now my last three hours are wasted because no matter what I do, it's game over." Happened to me several times, after trying to play it a quite a few times. Also I dunno if you can say's "light hearted comedy", the game contains like 95% rape scenes.
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Majikoi is a good comedy. I agree with that, if all your after is some good comedy, can't go wrong, but if you want a good story as well, look elsewhere.
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10$ to restore the 18+ Content, with the base game 5$? That's just silly.
Also Winterfury, Steam is a good metric to judge by. The exposure it gets there is pretty massive compared to others, but until MangaGamer releases their sale numbers for say, Fata Morgana as well, we can't go by anything else.
Also, I don't trust that new Nutuku business. They come out of nowhere, and are putting down 10 million investment capital into a market that is known to show poor returns / no growth? Seems fishy to me. "The Steam of VNs", But we already have Steam...
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It's Critical Point actually, I found it out by narrowing down the search options heavily on VNDB and scanning like 15 pages. But Soul Link is definitely close.
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For the life of me, I can't remember the name.
*MC is a man. He's sent out there to find out why something's wrong, ect.
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I haven't read Fata Morgana yet, but it's on my list, as it looked deliciously creepy...but I can certainly understand.
You have to understand yourselves guys, "All Ages" sets a tone for games and people reflect that. When you saw 18+ on a VN, it could contain anything. Sex. Blood. Gore. Crazy shit. Now on Steam...stuff is censored. People want 18+ VNs, not for the sex, but for the license of "Anything can happen here...nothing is censored" even with the new MLA release, they're talking about toning down / potentially removing the "CHOMP" - As well as some of the more bloody moments. i.e, wounds, but not blood. I get they do this to sell on Steam, but hey...wanna point something out I pointed out on the Muv Luv forums.
The highest sold VN on Steam, are ones with tons of fanservice / that release with 18+ patches. This is a fact of life people. Clannad sold like 2,500 copies - until they discounted it to over 50% off, and now it's sold over 30,000. So price + the whole "Ages 12 and up" disclaimer, makes people think it's for kids. That it won't be mature / have a good story. You can check SteamSpy. Sort by Visual Novels. Copies sold. Then filter out Commercial games that are RPGS /w VN elements(Neptunia, ect), and remove the "Free" VNS...and you'll see, all the "Good" VNs on Steam have barely sold at all. A few thousand copies for some, or like Fata above, a few hundred.
Ages 12 and up is not appealing to a playerbase consisting of people on average over 22.
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Most sold VN on Steam, not including ones that have gameplay besides VN Gameplay / freebies / OLVENS.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/269250
http://steamspy.com/app/269250
60,000 copies...but it's been on sale for for like 4$ before...so take that into account. Now let's look at G-Senjou.
http://steamspy.com/app/377670
Been almost a year since it hit Steam. Around 5,000 copies sold. Higurashi is being sold for cheap, bit by bit, and it's sales for the first are around 60,000 - the ones after it only have a few thousand. VNs, unless heavily sexualized, are not selling well on Steam. Sakura series has hundreds of thousands of sales.
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6 minutes ago, solidbatman said:
We already know the answer to that.
*sadly looks at Fata Morgana's sales*http://steamspy.com/app/303310
Ouch.
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26 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:
man... we don't need this crap...
There are dozens of videos just like this. Super cringe. To be fair, VNs / Anime are very cringe if you just take parts like that in video.
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13 minutes ago, RikiSanic said:
While dovac might've been behaving unprofessionally, he was in no way obligated to give a "formal request" through email. The only formal request he's likely to give is a C&D order, which is certainly in his legal right to do so.
I don't know, in the end dovac is still the immature and young CEO of a visual novel localization start-up that he's always been, whereas imoutoworks is stealing from creators because baddie Sekai Project wants to charge money for extra content.
Content that was in the game, that they re-sold. It's the same tactic EA has used for years now. Stripping a part of the game out, and selling it as DLC. Besides his unprofessional attitude, this is the issue people are seeing.
I also love the whole people talking about "Pirates not deserving respect / providing pirated content doesn't"
You do know that until a little over a year ago, FUWANovel was the biggest distributor of pirated VN content on the Internet? Hundreds of releases.
https://www.reddit.com/r/visualnovels/comments/2wiow4/im_the_admin_at_fuwanovel_confirming_changes/
Almost everyone on this website has pirated a VN. PRobably has lately even. To top it off, many long time, big members of this community released torrents for said games. Now those same members are saying pirates are scum. Love it.
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This is absurd. the 18+ Patch should be free, or like 5$ at most. Charging double? I've heard how bad Sekai Project is, but this seals the deal for me. I mean, his argument is that the patch adds CGS and content, so it should cost?
Ignoring the fucking fact that...that content was originally in the game, and you just removed it to resell it?
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Not buying from Steam? Definitely minority. Steam has patches for all of their games and download server sin the case they ever ago down. But that's unlikely to happen in the next 15+ years, unless some major crash happens, and even then, Valve has so much money. There is a Non-Steam version - I think I read about that, so you should be solid for that.
They also have a 18+ Patch in the works, for Extra, Unlimited, and Alternative, so don't worry there. I have no clue about the side-works. As for your other points, I agree. I showed that you can have an immense increase in image resolution at no expense to size, with only a few hours of work, and that was with an untuned Waifux2. Right now I find this version ugly due to the way the game upscales. Like nothing I've ever seen. I can boot up 90's VNS that look better, free VN's, ect. This is a commercial product, the upscaling Engine in this 7.0 Engine is among the worst in all of VNs.
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AH yeah, Swan Song. Man, that games characters were the best, just non-stop kidders. Making the best of a bad situation, they really showed what the power of the human spirit can do.
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Edelweiss again? I guess I'll stop suggesting, I just realized I don't really read comedy VNs lol, looking over my VNDB list...
Maybe Majikoi? It was decently funny, though I couldn't complete it myself.
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Another good one is Soul Link. I never finished it myself, due to some computer issues at the time...but it had some decent plot twists. Also trying to think of another, but I can't recall it at the moment...involved a all female station + MC, and he had a robot arm or some such...
Nocturnal Illusion is an old one that I enjoyed as well.
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Just now, WinterfuryZX said:
Infinity:
Never7
Ever17
Remember11
12Riven
The series starts becaming interesting with ever17 though. Never7 is pretty boring.
If I'm being honest, Ever17 was so boring to me, I dropped it after three routes. It didn't grip me like Remember11.
KARAKARA, Dovac, Twitter wars, and overcharging for adult content
in Visual Novel Talk
Posted
Yeah, imagine you work super hard at your job. You do a damn good job. Then your Boss comes around and screws it all up and now all that hard work, effort, time you put in, was wasted. You'd probably wanna leave too.