ittaku
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One last thing, I reworded this line in the translation for the next beta patch which might help you.
I don't sense I haven't. So..."
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Heh, glad to see Ruuko's route had as big an impact on other people too... Unfortunately if you've done her route before other routes, you'll find the other routes lacking since it holds the most intrigue and is the least worst translated. If you didn't like Ruuko's ending you're gonna really struggle with (spoiler you may not know yet):
Sasara's ending.
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Funny you interpreted it that way. By the way, quoting bluemist's interpretation of the end when he didn't understand Japanese is a wildly inaccurate way to interpret the ending a different way just because you want it to be different. Please don't compare an actually translated passage to someone who played the game without knowing Japanese.
First of all, how accurate is the translation? I would be offended by that question if it wasn't for the fact that I never really said I was an exceptional translator or anything. But I translated the whole game, barring Yuuki's route, and Ruuko's route was done last when my Japanese had become much stronger, so the translation of that route is the least inaccurate. The rest I'll put in spoiler tags.
Ruuko says numerous times after she starts falling for the protagonist that she'll become Uu if she has to.The punishment described in Ruuko's terms is that she can no longer be Ruu. It's my interpretation that Ruuko is mostly definitely an alien and because she disobeyed the laws of Ruu for a good act, she was both punished and rewarded for it, simply by stripping her Ruu powers, and then adopting the artificial story that the protagonist himself invented for her when reporting to Karin. There is no suggestion that Ruuko forgets being an alien - the ONLY thing she says she doesn't remember is her name. She says she remembers all of it. My belief is that her conversion to human is so complete that they even make her believe she has a new identity. The wording of "perhaps I don't remember" by Ruuko herself is maybe not strong enough and I've been meaning to reword it.
I suspect you're trying to read too hard into the wording of the rest, but here goes...
As for your questions, of course Takaaki will feel despondent if there's any doubt this is Ruuko. The wording of "even Ruuko notices" simply means its fully readable on his expression. Doesn't matter that she's the only other person there.
Clouded memory and reality. Reality is now and is unmistakeable. As time has passed from when he was with Ruuko, the reason he calls it clouded reality is he is doubting his own memories given that she's reappeared with an apparently different identity. This is intensified by the fact that the people around him seem to have more or less forgotten the events.
"With such a certain memory (?), it may have suddenly become unclear, but the girl before me is absolutely the girl who called herself 'Ruuko'. There's a lot I lost (?). But I'm still glad. As the most important thing I hold in my hands. Compared to that, dreams and memories (?) are meaningless."
He means he was absolutely certain of his memories, and he is absolutely certain that this IS Ruuko, but for some reason the current reality isn't matching his memory which is why he says it's unclear - he's doubting his own memories. What he's lost is the certainty he had in his memories, but given that Ruuko is right there for him in reality, it doesn't matter whether his memories were real or not and whether he questions them or not, only that the girl he loves is there.
The description of the various events that occur when she does use her power leave no do doubt that if his memory is correct, it is absolutely impossible without some alien power on her part, and the mechanism of her leaving is not remotely interpretable as anything "normal" - that's the most convincing moment that she's not human in my opinion.
What's left for the reader to decide then, is whether you believe she was an alien, converted to human, and has returned as such, or the whole story is completely jumbled in the protagonist's memory and the only thing he doesn't doubt is that they loved each other and she has returned. There's hardly anything to support the latter interpretation while the rest supports the former.
Personally I would have preferred the lack of a slight sombre note to the ending, but that seems routine on many visual novels instead of it being 100% happy. I've tried to reword her ending numerous times to make it sound less sombre, but what is actually tugging at your heart strings is their damn choice of music which never changes back to upbeat happy end music. You have no idea how important that choice of music is, since you'll have associated your own emotions with previous use of that music, as well as the fact that it's sombre in its own right.
At the very least, you have to admit that Ruuko's route has an awful lot of intrigue
This discussion should ideally go in the To Heart 2 discussion rather than the project thread by the way.
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Like seriously, is it that hard for these companies to find someone who talks proper English, or does it just not matter to them at all? They always just seem to get their usual VAs to talk some Engrish.
Japanese understand Engrish spoken with a Japanese accent better than they understand proper English. For the bulk of their target audience, getting native English speakers to do the English dialogue would actually make it harder for them to understand. Of course they can/do use Japanese subtitles, but that's not universal and doesn't change the understandability of the spoken dialogue to those who do know some English.
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To Japanese, all foreign names are foreign. If they want to add a character that's Russian they'll use a Russian name. If English speaking, an English sounding name. It only sounds strange to English speakers if they come across a non-English, non-Japanese name in a Japanese VN. To the Japanese, an English name is as foreign sounding as a Russian name.
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Just finished my first route - Sasara.
This guy was goddamn annoying and unlikeable for over( I don't think that even one guy like that exists in this world O.O) 1/2 of the route...This is probably the first time I've hated main protagonist so much. And the route ending was just very unsatisfying. May I ask, are the other routes like this?
I'm thinking about starting Tama's route, but with Sasara's impressions...
@edit
And yeah, both common and Sasara's had huge amount of errors, spelling, grammar etc.
And what about cookies Sasara's asked Takaaki to bake? o.O Did he just ignored her request?
@edit2
Yeah, I guess I'll just go with Tama for now(Momoyo v0.1?
) But if it'll be as bad as Sasara's I'll drop this VN... Chris, yeah protagonist got better in the second half, but still his behavior in first part was unreal + unbelievably annoying. Cannot reccomend Sasara's route..
I did say when I finished translating it that in Sasara's route the protagonist was so annoying that I had trouble sleeping at night till I worked my way through the worst of it. They were so keen to emphasise a particular quality of his personality that they completely forgot they'd done it enough for a few days that they kept doing it for something like a month of game time simply to make the route last longer than anyone else. At that point I wanted to fly over to Japan and kill the writer who came up with it. As for the epilogue
I don't know why the hell they ended it on such a sombre note.
No, the protagonist is NOTHING like that in any of the other routes. He shares the same personality traits at times but they don't labour on it so much. The most he behaves like that again is:
in Tama's route where he keeps ignoring that she is actually in love with him and thinking she's just playing with him..
but even then nothing like the magnitude he did with Sasara.
You're in luck as the rest of the routes are markedly more upbeat than that.
As for errors, typos, grammar problems... that's what happens if you play the raw 1st pass translation. That's why I posted this thread:
http://forums.fuwanovel.net/topic/10878-poll-do-you-play-pre-release-patches-or-final-versions/
For fear that people would judge my project on the 1st pass translation only. There is a truckload of editing going on and there hasn't even been a translate check done on it.
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Amount of kana isn't really an indicator of anything since verb and adjective conjugation bloats it up so much.
You can have 忘れられたら and 忘れる, they're still the same verb (different tenses) but the first has 3 extra kanas which with time ends up adding up a lot of characters but doesn't add any extra difficulty or time in translating them.
Amount of kanji is a better indicator than amount of kana in terms of script size.
Also amount of unique kanji is a really good indicator of the level of difficulty.
I suggest taking a look at this page for script size references: http://tlwiki.org/index.php?title=VN/Eroge_Script_sizes
Aye, but it's easy to just grep the text if you have it. I don't have a tool that selectively checks for kanji but I guess I can write one... (I don't use windows which is why I'm not using the tools on that wiki site).
EDIT (only using TH2 by comparison since I have the actual script and it's ~similar to clannad in scope):
2267 unique kanji in To Heart 2, 345512 kanji total
1812 unique kanji in haganai, 109323 kanji total
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Is the script a lot in comparison to other visual novels like clannad?
I'm guessing Clannad is similar in size to To Heart 2 (which is my translation project), but I haven't seen the script for Clannad. To Heart 2 is 95k lines and 2.9M kana. The PSP ones appears to be the so called 10~30 hour games while full blown high profile VNs are 50+ hours.
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Looking at the script it's ~ 20.7k lines, 785k kana . The kana count includes the names of who's speaking when there is dialogue, it seems. Took me a while to figure out the text was UTF16 little endian encoded and the zip file cp932 encoded and to decipher what that means in kana count.
EDIT: Note I'm only mildly interested since I like the haganai story but don't have a PSP and much prefer seeing on screen the same thing I'm translating in text.
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This project has been stalled due to NO transalators whatsoever.
I have ALL the scripts which need transalating!all i need now are some people who can transalate it!
Please contact me if your intrested.
This project will remain stalled untill we get a new transalator.
How long is the script in this game? A line count or perhaps a kana count to give some indication?
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I hate how old I am... I don't feel that old and don't act that old but I wish I were younger forever...
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I have to say the responses are most reassuring. I was expecting more people to be interested in only the translated version. I guess the time I spent in fansubs tainted my view of the audience who were mostly only interested in getting something as fast as possible. We'd go to great lengths in our fansub group to make something higher quality but would only ever attract 1/10th of the audience which is the opposite of the votes we have here so far. Now this could be representative of the Visual Novel audience at large being more discerning but I suspect it's just selection bias about the sort of person that hangs out on Fuwa being more discerning. I feel rather silly feeling any sense of rush in my own project after the translation portion of it took 7 years (minus a couple of years of idle time along the way).
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Might as well just go the extra mile and do the editting and TLC passes. No need for 100% translated pre-release to taint the final product.
I'm not sure what you're implying. Do you mean you'll just wait for the final product or do you think I'm suggesting that the translation team should not bother doing that? Of course I'm planning it on my own project and I'm sure others wouldn't dream of leaving it out either. I was just curious how much of the audience will bother re-playing it after the polishing effort.
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I guess I should have clarified in my poll that I meant 100% translated pre-release patches, not just partial patches. Edited poll to reflect this.
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Often a pre-release patch can reflect poorly on what the final version of a patch is going to be like and will likely not do the original VN justice. After translation check and editing the final version can be dramatically different to a 1st pass translation. Knowing that some people are willing to even play with machine translations, obviously they'll be happy with even a pre-release patch but I was curious what proportion will wait for the final release only, or will re-play it when the final version is out. I'd also like to know what people who know Japanese and have played the original versions do. Obviously I'm curious how it will affect my own project.
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To Heart 2 has an anime series and gets new OVAs every 2 years or so due to the franchise never dying (I was part of the original fansub group that subbed them all). The original series is garbage but the OVAs are a lot of fun until Dungeon Travellers where it rapidly went downhill. However they're the most fun only after you've played the game as they're all side plots based on the original To Heart 2 and To Heart 2 AD stories with references to in game storylines but not actually straight out of it. The original series was based on various routes from the original game without conclusion but was really low budget and uninspiring. I'll be re-subbing the OVAs myself shortly as a kind of appendix to the game translation...
EDIT: I just released the first 3 OVAs subbed.
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Here's a few I think may or may not have been missed:
"I started to feel like teasing her" from an otherwise gentle protagonist
Stopping stimulating her till she says what she wants by name
"My voice is coming out by itself"
It got even bigger
Women urinating after orgasm
Painful first experiences that always wane and turn into ecstasy
Insides that squirm like they have a life of their own
All semen is tasty or at least enjoyable because "it has your taste"
My mind went all white
I feel numb from pleasure
I'm going to feel strange
I want yours (not what, just whose) but that's just literal Japanese translation
- ztrepzilius and XReaper
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I think it's a terrible idea. With a properly written VN the relationships with different characters take on a different meaning depending on whether they're your current route or not and to get the most out of any story you're better off just doing one route and getting properly involved with the one character. On the other hand, playing 1 route from one VN and another route from a totally different VN is perfectly fine in my experience. That works particularly well if you're in need of an H scene and one VN is miles away from the H scenes while the other one is in the thick of it.
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Disable overlay.
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Confession: The bulk of my internet presence is totally unrelated to VNs or Japanese under a different handle and I am very well known for my work in certain software areas, but I share the same avatar which would only give me away on the rare occasion people recognise Lucy. Ruu \o/
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I think the answer to the opening question is converging on a single theme, and I tend to agree - any translation where the first pass is so bad that it cannot be translate checked and/or edited into a reasonable representation of the original text. That is (or at least should be considered) a bad fan translation by pretty much anyone's standards. Anything above that and you have a range of acceptability proportional to the fussiness of the audience.
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I know, but I still thought it was dumb. It's a 2-minutes epilogue scene, just make it "I'm back!" -> "Yay!" -> the end.
Agreed, I would have preferred that too, but it's pretty standard for there to always be a slightly sombre note to epilogues in VNs - and I don't really know why it's that way but I'm always wary of epilogues because of it. I don't particularly like it, mind you, but I've seen a billion times worse.
I had quite a few people PM me asking me if I was going to do TH2 AnotherDays after ToHeart2. I had said the sequel was a load of garbage but I had given it up in disgust when I started playing it years ago so never really played the whole thing through. I tried it again now and I remember why I said that. I tried playing Ma-ryan's route and it was just nonsense from one end to the other and I gave up skipping after half way through. It just drags on and on and on and there's no character development or anything. It was somewhat redeemed by an interesting H scene. I've started some of the other routes and to my surprise they're quite engaging. It seems what was wrong with the game was the rehashing of characters that were already in the first, and perhaps Ma-ryan's route being so bad. Having said that there's no way I'd translate this game for one major reason - wtf is up with them adding a loli character to a mainstream game? That would never make it to an official release in the west and would prevent me ever wanting to try and translate the whole thing. However if you know Japanese and you're looking to do something after TH2 and feel empty, it's quite okay to play selective character routes or mash the skip button.
Final verdict on this sequel
4 of the main routes are good additions to the story - Charu, Yocchi, Harumi and Silfa.
Ma-ryan's route was just hours and hours of her nonsense which is extremely annoying to me and I gave up half way through.
Haruka's route was a waste of time and only mildly amusing for a while but I made it to the end cos I like her.
Dunno about the loli route at all but it's my understanding there's no H in it.
The Konomi x Tama-nee route was rather stupid but the extremely long over the top H scene at the end was much more arousing than the minimal H in other routes.
Ikuno's story was told from her perspective which was interesting for a while but I didn't enjoy it at all.
4 of the main routes had happy endings which was a real bonus as far as I'm concerned.
Charu is Konomi's friend from the first - Kuudere that wants secretly to be a princess.
Yocchi is Konomi's friend from the first - Tsundere that tries to set up Takaaki with Konomi.
Harumi Deredere robot maid that chases Takaaki around that was Mi-chan the teddy in the first.
Silfa the Tsundere flawed robot maid that's sent to Takaaki for training under duress.
Ma-ryan the moron from the 1st tries to take over the world and has Takaaki as an unwilling accomplice.
Haruka is Konomi's mother that Takaaki falls for without much story.
Nanako is the primary school girl from Ruuko's route in the 1st that confesses to him right at the start.
Ikuno story - unlocked as a story from Manaka's sister's perspective when she gets discharged from hospital as a sequel to the Manaka ending to the first. Least unhappy ending is the one without the H...
Konomi & Tamaki story - unlocked as a sequel to turning down Konomi as just a childhood friend in the 1st only to have both girls chase him.
I can give more info on this game if people are interested but there's no way I'm going to translate it as an amateur project.
The original TH2 has more story telling, more plot twists, more in game choices, more variation in the girls with complete routes and is generally a better VN all round, but AnotherDays is a nice addition to the TH2 universe if you just need more of it. You have to play TH2 before AnotherDays as there are a lot of references to the story in the 1st and it's assumed you have done all the routes there.
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I had quite a few people PM me asking me if I was going to do TH2 AnotherDays after ToHeart2. I had said the sequel was a load of garbage but I had given it up in disgust when I started playing it years ago so never really played the whole thing through. I tried it again now and I remember why I said that. I tried playing Ma-ryan's route and it was just nonsense from one end to the other and I gave up skipping after half way through. It just drags on and on and on and there's no character development or anything. It was somewhat redeemed by an interesting H scene. I've started some of the other routes and to my surprise they're quite engaging. It seems what was wrong with the game was the rehashing of characters that were already in the first, and perhaps Ma-ryan's route being so bad. Having said that there's no way I'd translate this game for one major reason - wtf is up with them adding a loli character to a mainstream game? That would never make it to an official release in the west and would prevent me ever wanting to try and translate the whole thing. However if you know Japanese and you're looking to do something after TH2 and feel empty, it's quite okay to play selective character routes or mash the skip button.
I'm done with Ruu. Verdict:
Ruu! \o/
Ruu \o/
The epilogue was pointlessly cryptic and I don't think it needed to be. That I disliked.
It seemed pretty clear to me that she was made into a human so completely that they even gave her a pseudo-human identity based on what you reported back to Karin early on in her story and even made her believe that was her full identity.
Japanese Help Thread
in Fan Translation Discussion
Posted
Are you looking for more suitable dialogue for the highlighted sections then or the whole lot? Is the first line from Nanami herself and the second from Konomi?
If you're into loli eroge then I'd prefer you didn't.