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Well, I don't want to go too deep into this either, but you wrote mostly about hating tropes it uses which is a lot more in the personal taste/cultural sensitivities category. Just like the complaints @Dreamysyu mentioned, that's kind of a whole another layer of discussion. Plus with production quality... Sure, people may dislike the artstyle or it might age poorly... The same might even happen to storytelling, with VNs as a medium and culture people live in changing. But you can both acknowledge something representing high quality in its original context and it not standing the test of time – but honestly, 2D games suffer from this way less than many other forms of media. Well, I'll have to retreat to the intersubjectivity term that Palas was so nice to introduce to the discussion. Obviously no standards can be truly objective because objectivity arguably doesn't exist at all. But that doesn't mean things like consistent writing or technical prowess are completely up to one's feelings – it's grounded in the societally-created rules on what is considered positive, or sometimes the internal logic of the text itself. I, once more, argue that quality assessment and overall judgment on whether a piece of media is good/enjoyable are interconnected, but separate. Pointing out plotholes and poorly directed shots that make everything into blurry mess – these are as close to factual statements as you can ever get in media criticism. You can use the word "valid", "grounded" or whatever to avoid the misleading framing, but it's still the same principle. Like, the only possible riposte you would have for the asshats you mentioned above would be "these things don't matter as much as you make them seem", which is a fair opinion, but in no way invalidates their complaints. People freak out about the "culture of nitpicking" nowadays but if you don't have a counterargument against the nitpick, it means it pointed out a flaw. And small flaws can combine into a deeply flawed experience – which might still be very much worthwhile or effective, but that doesn't mean those are not worth discussing or can't ruin the experience for some. That final assessment, of course, is a lot more subjective and requires a lot more elaboration than sheer quality assessment can ever provide. That's why a review which tries to be as objective as possible will not only fail to achieve that goal, but will likely also be a very crappy thing to read. Or is, indeed, a pose assumed in bad faith/to mask one's opinions.

I don't think saying Grisaia is the Twilight of VNs is that wrong... Maybe slightly exaggerated. But let's focus on Kajitsu for the time being. I think there are many positive things about it you'll be able to get most people to agree about. Like it's humour being well-done, the art and music being consistently high-quality and the common route effectively building up towards the dramatic character routes. The trashy and over-the-top parts of it, mostly showing up in the later parts of the experience, are what's most contentious about it – and it'd be easy to argue they wouldn't work, even for their intended audience, if they weren't preceded by the genuinely well-done aspects of the game, building the necessary emotional investment and slowly exploring the crucial characters. Also, from what I've seen, you'll find more people claiming it's a very enjoyable VN or a good entry-level one (for people who are not yet sick of the tropes it relies on), rather than seriously saying it's a masterpiece. In my ideal world, the statements "Kajitsu's heroine routes are trashy and over-the-top" and "Kajitsu is a great/touching experience for those that enjoy its stylistic" are completely compatible with each other and non-controversial. And we should, indeed, put all popular media to similar scrutiny. Edit: TBH, this is kind of a heavy(?) topic for me personally, as someone who plays with reviewing stuff. We're living in a world where things that I find objectively atrocious, like the Transformers movies, are wildly successful. And in a world where media critics fetishise technical competency and subversion of tropes that something as awful as The Last Jedi could become a critical darling. But still I don't think that we should give up on certain baseline quality standards. I mean, you can make various excuses and adjustments when it goes to specific genres and storytelling formulas, but for example, are teens too dumb to enjoy better prose and better-constructed characters than what Twilight offers? Nah. Its even on different level than Kajitsu, that very deliberately builds it's cascade of ridiculousness and ends up with something pretty unique despite remixing overused tropes – it's just lame writing, and that's the part that no amount of context can nullify.

Congratulations, you played yourself But, jokes aside, I'm also looking forward to the sequel Luckily, for this VN I managed to go spoiler-free. BTW I think that weird character limit for protagonist's name is there because developers couldn't be bothered to properly adapt the system from the Japanese version for English release - in Japanese number of characters would be enough for almost any possible name, when writing in kanji. BTW I have to ask - if I enjoyed this VN, would I be okay with Higurashi? (I'm almost 100% sure that Subahibi is a no-go for me, but Higurashi doesn't seem so fucked-up based on reviews) Yes it is, no doubts about it

I don't really want to get too deep into discussing Grisaia as I don't want to derail the thread, but is it really the character routes that are the most contentious? I managed to really not like it in the common route, and some of the aspects you mentioned as objective positives played a big role in that. The comedic scenes all basically culminate in a "women are irrational, amirite" or "Yuuji is so badass" punchline and most of them are accompanied by the same music track so at some point every time it started playing I automatically zoned out, which imo isn't what proper sound direction should do. I strongly disagree about the character build-up as well. Other VNs don't need close to 50 hours to build up characters to make you care enough for them to feel sad for them when you learn they were once forced to cannibalise members of their softball team or whatever. As for the art, I agree it's competently done, but artwork especially something where time and general trends play a big role in how it is received. Most VN artwork from the 90s looks somewhat ugly by today's standards (except to fans of this particular style), and it's completely possible we are going to look at Grisaia in the same way in some 20-30 years. High/expensive production values are not the same as high quality. (Sorry, I couldn't contain myself). To add something more substantial, I completely get where you are coming from on this. I think the term you're looking for is "valid". You can point to a set of criteria a piece of media should adhere to in your opinion, explain where these criteria come from and why you accept them as an indicator for quality. You can say that the action scenes in the Transformers movies are bad because they are cut in a way that doesn't properly convey what is even going on instead of just cutting really fast between locations, and in your opinion an action scene should actually show the action. That is more valid than someone saying "skyscraper go boom", but it's not more objective. The reason I fight the term "objective" that much is probably because of these youtube channels that claim to do "objective criticism" when all they basically do is stop at every frame and scream "that's stupid", and by claiming to be objective they can pretend they are not just whining because they don't like a movie having a female/PoC protagonist who actually does stuff.

Well, I'm not talking for myself since I personally really enjoyed Kajitsu and its common route, but there is a common complaint with the comedy that it's basically making fun of people with serious mental problems or having these mental problems. Other that that, I agree with you.

As to your second point, I think quality being 100% reliant on context or whether something does its job are different categories. The former is more is more about the assessment of quality depending on which subset of the potential audience you ask while the latter is more about resonating with the intended target audience. To pick Grisaia as an example: Many in the VN fandom regard it as one of the must-reads, yet there is a subset of readers who hate it passionately (including me). I'd say that has to do with it committing to a certain set of VN tropes and turning them up to 11. For the people who love VNs because of these tropes this makes Grisaia on of the best things out there. For people like me who got into VNs for other reasons and are only bearing with some VNisms because other aspects make up for them, Grisaia can be unbearably bad. I can totally acknowledge that if a certain type of experience appeals to you, chances are you are going to love Grisaia. Stuff that might be considered an indicator of quality for Grisaia's target audience might be the opposite for others. So is Grisaia a masterpiece? No! It completely depends on who you ask. I don't even want to know what my mother or the average newspaper critic would think of it. Which is no different to something like Twilight. If you ask your 14 year old niece, it might be the greatest thing in the history of things. If you ask anyone else, not so much? So am I calling Grisaia the Twilight of the VN community? Yes. But my point is, you could basically do a similar mental exercise with any popular and/or highly regarded piece of media.

Originally I didn't have much to say about this, other than that tastes are somewhat subjective and after strong evaluation I standby most of my writing decisions (even if some disapprove). But, I do appreciate all the effort you spent into pointing out all the parts you had problems with. So if nothing else, thank you for the constructive feedback and giving it a try. EDIT: I should add, when I say I standby the writing I don't mean to imply that I think the writing is free from fault. But personally, I'm done modifying this work and ready to move on with my life to other things. Most of the remaining flaws regarding the writing are either very pedantic technical details, or simply subjective disagreements.

Yeah, that's what I figured as well. It'd be pretty weird to implement such a limit otherwise, when most of the other characters have names that are longer than that. Hard to say since I don't know quite how sensitive you are or what type of content affects you most. I found Higurashi a lot less disturbing than SubaHibi, but it's definitely a few shades darker and more impactful than World End Syndrome. In any case, I highly recommend you give it a try, because it's quite a ride if you're up for it! Just remember to grab the 07th-Mod.

I really appreciate the review and the fuwa-endorsement! Thank you for spending time to write up your thoughts!

Well, Digital Seclusion is now officially Fuwa-endorsed: https://fuwanovel.net/reviews/2021/02/27/digital-seclusion/ Those that didn't read it yet, shame on you, but consider checking out both the review and the VN itself. Also, further discussion is encouraged. :3

Finished World End Syndrome a few moments ago. I'm a big mystery fan, but I ruined the experience for myself here to some extent by unintentionally spoiling myself. Anyway, despite this and the cliffhanger-ish ending, I found the VN quite enjoyable as a whole, and I'm looking forward to see what they do with the sequel.