harry_kinomoto

Burnt Croquette's Be Happy strongly recommended for Mokou/Kaguya fans! Downloadable from Touhou Wiki HERE My last recorded favourites were Byakuren, Hina and Kogasa - though I'd much rather not choose favourites and say I love them all <3 Also, have a Moko-tan :3 Not everything in this world can be bought with money! Trying to make something better by spending money on it often has the opposite effect

harry_kinomoto's very brief idiot's guide to creating a balls-to-the-walls awesome VN that will go down in HISTORY as a classic that changed the world Guiding principles: A desire to create something beautiful. A desire to create something wonderful. A desire to create something perfect. A complete and utter disregard for everything else. Suggested ways to go about doing this: Creativity: as long as undertaken in the pursuit of the abovementioned. A team of people who will talk to each other about the abovementioned. A team of people who will listen to each others' ideas about the abovementioned. A team of people who will work on each others' ideas about the abovementioned. In other words: lots and lots and lots of love, tolerance and [pink]encouragement[/pink]. Pink colours optional. Possible results of implementing the abovementioned (adapted somewhat from here): A protagonist that isn't a blank slate. A storyline that doesn't JUST focus on fappability. More animated scenes. More than one "true end". Writing that doesn't rely so much on cultural references as it does fundamental human values everyone will recognise.... ...but paradoxically, something that most people will not understand or "get", and thus... A team who will be trolled to their graves for creating an absolute abomination; only to be recognised for their wisdom 50 years after their death. tl;dr: a VN that is in the true sense of the word "ideal", does not exist at present,.

I must say I find it quite remarkable that by including very little storyline content the series has shot to popularity solely because that very lack of information has created flexible, mouldable characters that fans can use. There's probably 2 types of Touhou fans as a result: the gamers and the so-called "secondaries". Though I probably wouldn't use that word because the fanworks produced are still unmistakeably Touhou, no matter how much the purists whine about how far they've deviated from "canon". Of course, this is coming from someone who's crap at the games, and I blame nothing but my horrendous reaction times B) I've heard many arguments for and against this line and my current stand is that he's implementing these as guidelines and not rules he'll go out of his way to impose. Personally I feel his stand on copyright seems a good compromise that both enables while safeguarding his work from being taken in a direction he doesn't like (eg by restricting porn). At the very least, he's not doing what Disney does - who's all rather draconian about it and suing everyone just for even mentioning their works before they first get paid!

A war AND animanga veteran in our midst? Honoured to have you, sir! I'm actually quite curious about your tastes too! Don't often find many anime pple in the military - what kinds of titles did you use to follow? Got any favourites?

O hello Moekou welcome to the forums! Am glad to have another Touhou fan on board - very much in agreement with your view that fiction has more than one possible route apart from established "canon" - especially so in Touhou which survives off fan media as much as it does Zun's work. Ever read Burnt Croquette's Be Happy? Downloadable from Touhou Wiki HERE. A must-read for Mokou/Kaguya fans! PS: Have a Moko-tan :3

Little Busters (Episode 1) Good news: It'll probably catch the attention of some anime transcribers - which means I'm gonna have sheets for Jumper, Alicemagic, and hopefully very, very soon~ Bad news: I doubt it'll make much impact with people who aren't actually die-hard fans of the series. The gags aren't that well presented, though I think it's just that they don't translate that well to an anime format. Put it this way - it's funny enough to laugh at Masato when you read about his misfortune at getting an eel pie then imagine him harassed by Rin and her battle staff, but to see it happen? Animated with Masato seemingly getting clobbered to death? It's got the finesse of a Punch and Judy puppet show and to find something like that funny requires some REALLY strong suspension of disbelief - and that's just one example... ADDENDUM: Fingers crossed I'm alone in my analysis!

Made myself play it when I was on a study trip of sorts in the US of A. Check it out :3 I guess the actual game, though, doesn't really take its ideas much further beyond the gimmick of "zOmg I cans date the Pressie and stay in the whitesnow house". Each character follows a recognised stereotype which is established early on, eg big sister, tsundere, etc. All are adhered to very well, so nothing new for old-hands at the genre. 2-3 H-scenes a character I think, all placed and presented appropriately (ie, as appropriately as can be in the current eroge climate) near the end of each of their routes. So not intolerable, I guess. All in all? Not great, but not terrible either. Probably wouldn't make it a first recommendation, but no harm in giving it a try~

Ok, so I took a look at Lucky Rabbit Reflex's homepage, and saw, from their about page, that the features of the game were: Seems to me the marketing point of this game is how it's set up to imitate a "normal" lifestyle. Do you think that's a fair assessment? I find it remarkable that this kind of play-style only ever happens in Otome-ge too. Also noticed you mentioned it's one of your favourites - was this one of the things that attracted you to it??

This, so much. Suppose we can't REALLY complain when pple think VN=hentai, given these statistics... Funny we should mention SonoHana in the same breath though. I think the initial ones were successful purely because people liked their art style (read: their ability to draw good yuri); but then the makes actually realised they couldn't rely only on that to keep the series moving and actually tried to start adding some storyline. It probably isn't top-tier VN level, but still something to take note of. Anyways welcome to the boards! Keep it coming with the wall-of-text lectures - you'll probably notice I do it alot too

Oh hey Beato, I do remember you from the old forums. Good to have you back!!

I HAS PLOT IDEA~ DO IT, hero. I dare you; no - triple dare you~~~

A quick guide to creating a VN that will be popular with Western audiences (imo): -Good art + good writing (self-explanatory. And as much as it displeases me to admit, the original VN art for both Clannad and Kanon falls woefully short of the standards of people used to THIS. And while there def have been games that can sell with crap art, trying to do this is just taking a gamble bcos most Western players tend to judge by first impressions. We don't mind that much because we know how to overlook things if content is good enough; others don't. Steins;Gate is probably a good benchmark as mentioned. ) -Anything that can be animated must be animated as much as possible. Essential to help capitalise on the VN format of text AND visuals. (F/SN's efforts at presenting their fight scenes were pretty good. Little Busters' fights were not bad - but another gamble because people will slam that text-only format as being extremely primitive.) -Nothing that is liable to be described by Wikipedia as "stories that focus on the appeal of the female main characters". The protag MUST be given space to develop; and not limited to being a super-reliable blank slate of a personality whose sole purpose of existence is to absorb all the faults and ills of the girls around him. (Good example: Little Busters, F/SN. OK example: Clannad. Bad example: Da Capo) -No porn. (at least not until the prejudice that VN=hentai is put to rest) -Nothing that LOOKS like porn. As above. So please keep your skirts at a sensible length, your proportions even, and your faces NEVER looking like an AHEGAO Honestly...>.< It's an uphill struggle because the VN market is currently well-established: both in terms of a loyal consumer database AND a way of structuring their games that those unfamiliar with the genre might not always get. It's gonna take a real maverick to create something that has a good hope of selling, and I hope one comes along soon!

Salut to you too, fellow countryman! Little Busters ftw!! B) You may be interested to know there is an ongoing project to send to Key (producers of Little Busters) a letter compiling fanworks on their series. If you really found it made an impact on you, do consider having a look! http://key15th.com/

A lot of the antivirus programmes don't seem to like VNs. As I understand it, it's not because they are harmful files; but rather because most antiviruses check files based on how popular they are. VNs, of course, are not very popular (yet), so will keep being identified as a "threat". I've had to restore many-a Doujin game/VN from Norton's quarantine, but my computer still seems alive and kicking! Anyways, welcome to the forums! ^^

*looks at location*.... O.O My fellow countryman! Salut!! B) I don't know much IT, but I am enamoured with Hatsuyuki Sakura's theme song, reasonably fond of the SonoHana series, and highly approve of your Chibi Mare. In short, welcome and I'm sure we'll get along

Hmm, hmm~ Strongly disagree. Having them as isolate categories was what the gaming scene many years back looked like. What you call “romance games”, for example, probably refers to the primitive datesim format where you’d do something like speak to your potential soulmate, and get given “love points” based on what you did for them. Obviously, dating IRL is NOTHING like this - and thank goodness some bright spark in the industry actually REALISED this and did something about it by adding in a few more variables to what was supposed to be a romantic experience! Most eroge today are hence a combination of the “romance game” and “visual novel” categories simply because devs realise that this makes for a more rounded experience. While players can and do no doubt choose VNs based on the subjective quality of the H-scenes, said players still take both H-scene AND story as a package. Put another way... ...and, imo at least, the industry has been loads better off for it!! ****** Doing things just to appeal to the audience is precisely what I don't want devs to do. Trying to reverse-engineer their original creative process just so that they can cater to what they think the audience wants (which is not necessarily the same as what they ACTUALLY want) is just an insult to freedom of expression. What I DO want them to do is make the decision only by thinking if THEY think it is suitable for THEIR story. Whatever comes out next is taken as-is, and, if at all necessary, the job of the marketing department to decide who may or may not like it! ****** A phenomenon that could be explained a great deal, I could argue, by the phenomenon known as “Moe”. (ADDENDUM: which you actually knew all about already, but I'm going to tell you anyways ) A whistle-stop definition for those not yet familiar with them term. Moe is that feel you get when you just finished a VN that has plumbed the depths of your soul. It is the vision of glory that you thereafter see, the strength and will that inspires you into action to realise that vision, and the hope that makes you feel it’s worth fighting for, dying for, even! Often it is used in the context of characters - the idealistic, bumbling try-hard who gets curb-stomped when (s)he is exposed to the evils of the world; that younger version of yourself whom you know precisely how to set on the right path; that innocent child who wandered up to the hungry man-eating lion that none dared approach thinking to give it a present, like, y’know, just ‘cos (s)he thought it looked cute... It just so happens that luck is on your side that day, and you manage to save the child, who doesn’t have family to go back to, and as it also happens, is actually becoming quite attached to you. You have a spare room and time on your hands, and since you’re not going to just leave a child out on the street, you think “why not?”. Your previously empty life is enriched a great deal by your unexpected guest, whom you end up spending a great deal of time with. But while you do not find this annoying as per se, perhaps what you do find infuriating is how you would often be interrupted, while bathing, by your guest, who would presume to join you, stark naked, but not before chiming in with a voice completely devoid of erotic intention: You see, Moe is a curious term. It is unique to Japanese vocabulary: none like it exist in English, and attempts to explain the concept inspired the Japanese government to fund a task-force to research this very topic - without much success. What in Japanese culture has spawned such a seemingly unexplainable concept? Answers provided tend to address things like how children in traditional Japanese families end up forming extremely close bonds with their family and other children. Myself I have no love for such theories, which sound like far-fetched psychobabble at best. Nevertheless the dilemma posed by both Moe and these cultural peculiarities is clear: where lie the boundaries of love? In its truest form moe does not have erotic connotations, but in relationships where other forms of love grow ever stronger, perhaps, so too, does the need for an answer; and the many forms of porn that Japan has sprung perhaps an indirect reflection of that need. ***** And know, comrade, that as long as you carry that title with the prudence and discretion that it so deserves, that there is no crime in that. At all. Salut!

@TayPROF Tay: Nice summary. IRL this is a deeply personal topic and each person will come up with their own conclusions - hence why I resisted adding my own into the mix. But by using VN and related media as examples, I was better able to make explicit the reality of either side of the fence, and in doing so, encourage readers to make their own choice on the matter. You see, it is crucially important that whenever a person makes a choice, he/she is fully aware of both negative and positive implications of their choice, and that said choice is made only AFTER these implications have been given due consideration. An informed decision if you will - not dissimilar in principle to what is known in certain fields as informed consent – which you may well have come across during your own travels at some point (@everyone: ) Anyways, given the relative importance of this topic and the amount of interest it has generated, I think it fitting to add in a little omake~ Disclaimer: this topic is difficult, complex, highly personal, and some people spend entire lives in vain searching for an answer. If I had any choice in the matter I would make it such that no one below the age of 16 sees this - not because I discuss anything explicit; but rather because it is easy to jump to rash conclusions on it without at least some life experience. Of course that's not a possible request on the internet so I'll just say this: don't be satisfied with just one type of answer; trust your intuitions and the voice from your own heart! Not a conclusion I disagree with. However, let’s take it a few steps further. What, exactly, is “true love”? More specifically, where and when does “just friends” progress to become “true love”; or are they one and the same?? The standard answer to this tends to make reference to the fact that “love” in its entirety takes many forms. Wikipedia, for example, lists 4 types: Platonic love (“just friends”) Familial love (between family members) Romance (between lovers) Eroticism (sexual feelings) ...and that’s all well and good until you realise that that hasn’t actually answered the question. Because even though they have different names, it does not imply them to be mutually exclusive, nor does it suggest a greater ability to differentiate them; or indeed better enable you to define where one starts and another ends. Indeed it raises more questions than it does answers, the million-dollar one being: What relation, if any, do these categories have with this legendary "true love"? If you haven’t yet been totally scared off, let me give you an idea of the scale of this question by referencing Schadenfreude and Tay: Schadenfreude is right. You literally can’t get closer (physically anyway) to a person than by having sex with them. But is doing so really as interlinked with ”real” love as Tay argues? If it is, does it then mean that familial love, or your love for your mates, is not “real”, because it does not include having sex? By extension, does this mean that VNs looking to showcase “real” love actually SHOULD include sex scenes after all? Is incest indeed WINcest because by combining three different types of love (familial, romantic and erotic) it is made that much more powerful? And if not, what is it in normal sibling, and other non-eroticised relationships, that makes any love in them ”real” or “true”?? Any attempt at answering the main question should, at least, suggest a way to approach each of these dilemmas. *** I don’t really expect replies, but anyone willing to share their thoughts would be highly welcome and indeed encouraged. To be given the opportunity to read and understand differing opinions is indeed what makes forums so enjoyable, after all~

I'm not really qualified to answer this either because I didn't complete the VN, but what I will say is that that was only because I played it after having watched the anime, and found it added nothing new in terms of content, and hence got bored! In fact, I find Clannad is one of those rare exceptions where I'd argue the anime adaptation is even BETTER than the VN! Odd because yoou'd think all the touchy-feely emotions they discuss would be better suited to a text for that, but I found the multisensory experience that the animation provided made for an even better experience As such as much as I like the series, I'd have to say that if you really honestly didn't like the anime, you probably won't enjoy the VN that much more...

@Aaeru: First off, my apologies for misunderstanding your earlier post. It was indeed an easy sentence to misconstrue when taken outta context ^^; That being said... This obviously is something that's personal to everyone and hence prolly not up for debate but I'm just gonna give my 2 cents. To your reply: yes and yes, but the concepts of "humility" and "worthlessness" are two very different things. (Small exception of just NO to the concept of whatever prescribed gender stereotypes that you seem to be thinking of but I think I've made this point before...) Anyways, humility's obviously a good thing imo, but if you're gonna discredit something you put your heart and soul into making with that so-called humility, that's just, well, not on. Because if you first run around and trumpet the awesomeness of VNs... ....then pour yourself into making a site dedicated to SPREADING said awesomeness... ....and then turn around and say that you are WORTHLESS... ....isn't it sorta like you might as well have said that your original aim was WORTHLESS and that any effort towards it was WORTHLESS in the end! tl;dr: Do what you want, but if you are going to imply that VNs DON'T deserve to be spread around the world, then I am going to have to take issue with that viewpoint! That is all~

No it doesn’t, because the way we see a VN may be totally different to how they see it. VNs nowadays are good stories with sex scenes. I recognise to some VNs won’t be the same if you removed either component, but I’m the sorta person who feels that the story would be EVEN better if you removed the sex scenes. Simple case of wanting all of the good and none of the bad, if you will. No it doesn’t, and the sooner devs realise they can make a non-sexual VN and still have it sell like hotcakes the better. I completely understand why you find that Ever17 scene hot, and I’m not saying that I’d impose a BLANKET ban on sex/H scenes even if you gave me the power to do so. However, I do think that if devs actually tried putting more effort into the story than attempting to sell it solely via those silly porn cliches as you mentioned, we’d get a far better quality of work. You first say first that a lot of people view the relationship between a man and a woman as MORE than simply a hole and a rod; then say later down that the whole point of a date is sex alone? I’m afraid I don’t understand. Dates are a two-way thing. If both parties get together with sex in their minds, sex will almost certainly ensue, that’s true. I think that kinda template applies to the datesim games. Hence I’d agree that a datesim without H-content would indeed be a bit odd. But the subject on discussion, however, is not datesims but VNs. And VNs are more than datesims (well, at least the good ones are). Ergo, (said) VNs are more than JUST about sex. Applying these principles to IRL, what I’m trying to say is: whatever happened to being “just friends”?? And no, I don’t mean that in the too-scared-to-touch-you-so-am-doomed-to-die-a-virgin sorta way. But really, correct me if I’m wrong obviously, but it’s almost as if you’re implying that since women and men who spend time together will eventually end up having sex, those who place a high value on monogamy should isolate themselves from the opposite gender in case they succumb to certain, erm, temptations... Death sentence if there ever was one!! >.< Oh and PS: Do I then have your permission to cite that as Prof. Tay (2012)?

Mate, sex sells EVERYWHERE. Whether in Japan OR elsewhere! But the thing is, what they think has no bearing on what I think. Nor should it, for me or for anyone else. I think the problem we have is a difference in interpretation. You seem to have this idea that VNs exist for sex scenes and sex scenes alone... As you rightly said, VNs are not datesims. They are more than datesims. That difference explains why I play VNs and not datesims. On the subject of Muv-Luv... Lastly... In the Sharin no Kuni Fandisc, Ari Houzuki said: The relationship between a man and a woman is about a hole and a rod. Those who insist upon describing this as “love” will succumb to their own depravity. I really, REALLY hope I’m not the only one who doesn’t think that way. But that, I guess, is another story for another day~

Welcome, Joyjason! I'm glad someone who's read rather more than the standard "newbie" fare has found his way here~ Never new the VNDB community was that unwelcoming! Pray elaborate??