What defines a human being?

[Guest]

Greetings.

Newbie Shiro-chan here.

Some time ago, I was confronted with the idea that humanity is not an inherent status to us, but rather an earned and temporary one. 

It makes a lot of sense to me, in a certain way. It's hard to say how I would classify someone who always lived away from society and never learned how to speak or write. Ceasing to see someone as a "person" when they die and instead seeing them as an object seems valid to me as well, even if it's cold.

 

So I started to think about what actually defines someone as a person. I have my own thoughts on the matter, but they come from someone who never went too deeply into the topic. I would surely just embarass myself by saying them, so I'm more interested in what you all have to say about the matter.

[Nosebleed]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

I rest my case

[Guest]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

I rest my case

I see. While your reply was probably humorous in nature, I think it's a valid point.

The question I was trying to raise is more phylosophical than physical. For example, if certain traits are required to be a "human being" can one be "more human than other?" If so, what would those traits be?

[Nagisa_Fawkes]

Well, biologically speaking, any living being from the Homo sapiens species is a human... philosophically speaking... I don't know.

[Ivan A.]

The first thing that comes to my head is that we are the result of the choices we make. 

[Guest]

Well, biologically speaking, any living being from the Homo sapiens species is a human... philosophically speaking... I don't know.

Yes, I wasn't trying to bring biology here. Oh, if anyone deems necessary, they're free to do so. I'd be thrilled to listen to it.

Your answer is interesting. "I don't know" is simple and honest. As a matter of fact, I don't know either. I'm sure not many people do, and there's probably not a right answer for that.

By listening to everyone's definitions of a human being, maybe we can get close enough to a good answer. If we don't, that's interesting by itself.

[Nosebleed]

In my opinion it's impossible to quantify "being human"

To me you either are human, as defined by what being a human entails, or you are not human (in this case you're an animal or a plant or a rock)

I don't think something can make you more human than someone else.

You may act differently than other people, but you're still just as human since you fit into what being a human is defined as.

And of course what i personally believe defines being human is thoroughly explained in that wiki page but i believe a consciousness is truly a human like trait that distinguishes us from other species above all others traits.

[Guest]

And of course what i personally believe defines being human is thoroughly explained in that wiki page but i believe a consciousness is truly a human like trait that distinguishes us from other species above all others traits.

I see. That seems like a valid viewpoint. If you wouldn't mind entertaining me a big longer, would you say a person with brain damage who is not capable of thought more complex than a lizard (a random example) does not qualify as a human being, then?

What about an adult who never had any contact with society and therefore cannot engage in normal, daily tasks? Who lives like a wolf or a dog. Would he be "human"?

[Nosebleed]

I see. That seems like a valid viewpoint. If you wouldn't mind entertaining me a big longer, would you say a person with brain damage who is not capable of thought more complex than a lizard (a random example) does not qualify as a human being, then?

What about an adult who never had any contact with society and therefore cannot engage in normal, daily tasks? Who lives like a wolf or a dog.

This is where it gets tricky, i'm not that knowledgeable on how the brain works so i can't make very solid arguments.

But if their brain is that damaged then, theoretically, they wouldn't be classified as human.

They would have to be classified as faulty humans (temp.), not exactly a homo sapiens, so you would have to put them in a different species if you are using self awareness and other psychological traits to defines "human"

Of course in reality that's not how things go and i get it'd be kind of offensive to do so, but if we're trying to form solid criteria and using self awareness and other psychological traits as a definition for human then severely brain damaged people would not classify.

[Newbie Otaku]

What distinguishes a human from an animal, in my eye, is their resistance to basic animal instincts. i.e. "Seven Deadly Sins". If a person goes about their day trying their best to live a fulfilling life and occasionally helps another person along the way, then that is human. Also, a major component to my definition is the ability to give love, not receive. If anything can give affection and love without expecting anything in return, that is human.

[Guest]

This is where it gets tricky, i'm not that knowledgeable on how the brain works so i can't make very solid arguments.

But if their brain is that damaged then, theoretically, they wouldn't be classified as human.

They would have to be classified as faulty humans (temp.), not exactly a homo sapiens, so you would have to put them in a different species if you are using self awareness and other psychological traits to defines "human"

Of course in reality that's not how things go and i get it'd be kind of offensive to do so, but if we're trying to form solid criteria and using self awareness and other psychological traits as a definition for human then severely brain damaged people would not classify.

 

I see. Thank you for your time.

 

Moving a bit away from what already has been discussed with the moderator above, we often use words that take away humanity from certain groups of people. Like psychopaths or serial killers. "Inhuman" and "monstrous" quickly come to mind.

Do you believe (not aimed at the gentleman I'm quoting, even though his answer would be appreciated) that there is some sort of moral code we put together with the word "human"?

[Nosebleed]

That's a unicorn rarity level creature. If you're using that to define a human then humans are very endangered species.

[Newbie Otaku]

I've talked to a minor sociopath before, and I don't believe he's any less human than I am. All human beings have idiosyncrasies and faults, however, some are just exaggerated.

That's a unicorn rarity level creature. If you're using that to define a human then humans are very endangered species.

I don't think so. I think just about everyone is capable of it, under the right conditions.

[Flutterz]

I think it's pretty difficult to pinpoint exactly what defines a human(in a philosophical sense), simply because we've never really encountered anything which we'd have a hard time classifying as either human or non-human, so we've never had to come up with a strict definition. For example, would an intelligent alien be human and deserve human rights? What about an artificial intelligence?

[Guest]

What distinguishes a human from an animal, in my eye, is their resistance to basic animal instincts. i.e. "Seven Deadly Sins". If a person goes about their day trying their best to live a fulfilling life and occasionally helps another person along the way, then that is human. Also, a major component to my definition is the ability to give love, not receive. If anything can give affection and love without expecting anything in return, that is human.

I'm afraid that definition would make me inhuman. I always expect something in return when I express love or affection, even if I know I'm not entitled to it. Still, an interesting concept. Thanks for spending your time to share it.

[Nosebleed]

I don't think so. I think just about everyone is capable of it, under the right conditions.

I have never ran across such a situation in my entire life.

Even if i'm just helping an old lady across the street, i'm expecting to feel better about myself because i followed a moral code that's looked upon by society and that makes me feel good,

Even if it's just the feeling, it's still something i expect.

You don't do something and expect nothing, you know you'll get something out of anything you do, even if that something are just synapses in your brain.

But maybe i just didn't grow up in the right circumstances, who knows.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that you're a bad person if you expect something out of a supposed good will action, you're not, you're only human for doing so. But expecting absolutely nothing to me sounds inconceivable.

[Guest]

I think it's pretty difficult to pinpoint exactly what defines a human(in a philosophical sense), simply because we've never really encountered anything which we'd have a hard time classifying as either human or non-human, so we've never had to come up with a strict definition. For example, would an intelligent alien be human and deserve human rights? What about an artificial intelligence?

That's a good place to move the discussion towards. I feel like there's worth in trying, even if it's difficult to do so. Those questions are fairly good, I'd look forward to how people would answer them.

[Newbie Otaku]

I'm afraid that definition would make me inhuman. I always expect something in return when I express love or affection, even if I know I'm not entitled to it. Still, an interesting concept. Thanks for spending your time to share it.

I guess I should clarify "anything in return". That's the moral I hold myself to, not what I hold others to. I guess it's just genuine love that does it for me. If it feels sadness, grief, happiness, or especially love, its human.

I think it's pretty difficult to pinpoint exactly what defines a human(in a philosophical sense), simply because we've never really encountered anything which we'd have a hard time classifying as either human or non-human, so we've never had to come up with a strict definition. For example, would an intelligent alien be human and deserve human rights? What about an artificial intelligence?

If it has feelings, I don't care what it is. Whether it's a carbon-based life form means very little to me. It's human.

[crunchytaco]

I seriously think where went wrong with this whole human thing is when we tried to get philosophical about it and then brought in religion to define it. 

 

Life would be easier if we just took the Wikipedia example.

[Newbie Otaku]

I seriously think where went wrong with this whole human thing is when we tried to get philosophical about it and then brought in religion to define it. 

 

Life would be easier if we took the Wikipedia example.

But, humans aren't simply physical. There's a whole other side to intelligent life that can't be disregarded when classifying something as "Human".

[Fiddle]

The aforesaid proposition that a "human" (not in accordance with biological classification, but more so in the "not inhuman" or "person" sense) is defined by morality, in my opinion, is mistaken. A number of experiments have been done that support that animals are capable of complete selflessness. And this morality isn't merely a long-term investment; some animals can feel guilt and such just as we might. I was trying to find the particular article I've read of a certain experiment, but couldn't find it. Oh well, this is an insightful one as well.

[crunchytaco]

But, humans aren't simply physical. There's a whole other side to intelligent life that can't be disregarded when classifying something as "Human".

See that's what you were taught and when humanity begin accepting this idea, that's when a portion of it begin veering off into a dark age for a long time.

[Newbie Otaku]

See that's what you were taught and when humanity begin accepting this idea, that's when a portion of it begin veering off into a dark age for a long time.

Unfortunately, Religion gets a bad rep from the dark ages. During those times, religion was just a pretense justifying political and economical goals. Jesus never said "Go kill a bunch of non-believers". That was clergymen seeking power. Unfortunately the church is one of the most unfaithful groups known to man-kind. <- My opinion. The new pope is giving me hope.

[zoom909]

I seriously think where went wrong with this whole human thing is when we tried to get philosophical about it and then brought in religion to define it. 

 

Life would be easier if we just took the Wikipedia example.

 

"The unexamined life is not worth living." -- Socrates

 

What traits does a human being have that an animal doesn't?

 

-the ability to reject your instincts.  Human beings go on hunger strikes.  They deliberately abstain from sex.  They force themselves to stay awake when they are sleepy.  And so on.  As far as I know, animals don't do these things...

 

-they are sentient.  They are not only aware of their own existence, but they can also question it.

 

-they have a complex language.  Many people feel that words are the basis for humans' ability to reason.  All around the world, languages that were once assumed to be primitive, once carefully studied, turned out to have the same ability to express abstract concepts as the languages in supposedly higher civilizations.  And unlike writing, no one has been able to trace spoken language back to its origin.  It seems that as long as humans have existed, language has existed.

[crunchytaco]

"The unexamined life is not worth living." -- Socrates

 

What traits does a human being have that an animal doesn't?

 

-the ability to reject your instincts.  Human beings go on hunger strikes.  They deliberately abstain from sex.  They force themselves to stay awake when they are sleepy.  And so on.  As far as I know, animals don't do these things...

 

-they are sentient.  They are not only aware of their own existence, but they can also question it.

 

-they have a complex language.  Many people feel that words are the basis for humans' ability to reason.  All around the world, languages that were once assumed to be primitive, once carefully studied, turned out to have the same ability to express abstract concepts as the languages in supposedly higher civilizations.  And unlike writing, no one has been able to trace spoken language back to its origin.  It seems that as long as humans have existed, language has existed.

 

Socrates also had a plug up his ass and got jealous over his pupil over everything.

 

Those uptight philosophers and the clergymen of old aren't interesting to me.

 

Those abilities aren't unique to humans

 

- Dogs bury bones so they can find it and chew on it later.

 

- A gorilla was given a snicker, and she saved it as a snack for another time. 

 

- Several species in the animal kingdom have passed the mirror test besides human. How do we know they don't question their existence?

 

- Sonar communication between dolphins are highly complex. We still don't understand how they communicate with each other from such long distances. Our subs sonar is no where near their complexity. Animals have their own language too. It's just not what we're used to as language since they don't form words like we do.

 

 

We think too highly of ourselves sometimes. Back then we used to think black people didn't have souls. 

 

If an advanced alien race were to see us, they wouldn't think we were much different from apes.