The Canonicity of Good Ends in VNs with Sequels

[Zenophilious]

Well, I just finished Grisaia no Kajitsu, and playing through several of the good ends made me thinking.  Would the sequels treat those good ends as canon (even though some of them fast forward several years or, in Amane's case, even farther into the future than that) or just ignore them without being officially treated as canon?  Some of them seem like it would be hard to scrape a sequel together from.  That got me wondering about the canonicity of good ends in VNs in general.  Are they referenced in the sequels at all?  Or do the characters involved act like they never happened?  Is there precedence for this happening, if it does?  Or is it rare, or just completely nonexistent?

 

I'm pretty interested in this topic, since the only VN I've played that has a sequel is Grisaia, so any responses are highly appreciated.

[Berilium]

In Kajitsu the overall plot of every single route was canon, and Yuuji solved their problems without some major incidents and not getting romantically involved with any of the girls.

 

Akatsuki no Goei sequel is almost the same. It starts with neither route being canon and just develops into something else (altough there are some things that should have moved from the first game into the second but they did not.) . Friendship remains untouched.

 

I don't know about any other sequel that is the same as these two.

 

EDIT: I think Muv-Luv Unlimited branches from Meiya/Sumika's route.

Well at least that is what he remembers at the start >.>

In other words you could play the common route in Muv-Luv and then jump straight into Unlimited (not recommended tough)

[Clephas]

The first Akagoei's canon ending was Kaoru's.  Grisaia's is

All the girls' issues resolved, he had sex with them, but he didn't settle down with any of them.

[Berilium]

What reallly?

 

So much for my explanation.

 

I find it weird tough. 

Havin sex with all of them but not being involved despite of what happened with them. Just passing trough I guess? xD

 

Mental note: I need to pay more attention to what I read.

[Clephas]

I don't know if you played the last Grisaia, but

the ending is all about the results of his inability to keep it in his pants.

 

As for Akagoei

The clue is that the events before the Moe/Kaoru split have occurred and everything has happened right up until Kaito actually leaving. The difference is that he doesn't yet have a romantic reason for following her. Canon ending for the Akagoei games themselves (leading into Reminiscence) is important to note that he was

1. Probably romantically involved with Reika
2. Might or might not have met up with Kizuna
3. Definitely screwed Tae and/or her mother
4. Did not get involved on the rebels side in the Forbidden Zone (most likely)
5. The denizens of Dream and Hope are all descended from the denizens of that region.

[Berilium]

I don't know if you played the last Grisaia, but

the ending is all about the results of his inability to keep it in his pants.

 

Well I don't dislike the ending at all xD 

I actually like Harem endings even tough this was the only one that I really saw.

 

 

As for Akagoei

The clue is that the events before the Moe/Kaoru split have occurred and everything has happened right up until Kaito actually leaving. The difference is that he doesn't yet have a romantic reason for following her. Canon ending for the Akagoei games themselves (leading into Reminiscence) is important to note that he was

1. Probably romantically involved with Reika

2. Might or might not have met up with Kizuna

3. Definitely screwed Tae and/or her mother

4. Did not get involved on the rebels side in the Forbidden Zone (most likely)

5. The denizens of Dream and Hope are all descended from the denizens of that region.

 

Well I assumed that most of the events in Moe's route happened because Kaito knows Kanzaki's grandparent and there was a talk about the stall they built.

Well I won't be playing Reminiscence anytime soon but it's good to know what is and what is not cannon. I know Reika died so Tae's thing was after that? Interesting I guess? ._.

 

So...what was the actual topic?

[Aggressor]

Otome Riron kind of stands out, read the description here

[Down]

"Canonicity" is a very occidental fandom thing, afaik. Like with the Star Wars absurdities of the x levels of canonicity.

It always seemed to me like japanese authors (couldn't tell what it is for fans) don't really care about that. Now when there are sequels of course it might make a route "more canon" than the other, but meh.

For example the sequels/fandisks for Type-Moon games look as if they are based on a sort of blend of all the routes, or something different altogether - the rule being "don't think too much about it".

 

Overall VNs are a lot about meta-fiction, constructing your own story with elements given to you, exploring the possibilities of one setting - with every experience having the same value as the others. It extends to the fact that japanese pop-culture is extremely trans-media - there's a LN and a manga of about everything, and spin-off on various supports are legion, but in the end they're considered as a whole range of possibilities for a single universe rather than one main series and its spin-off (it's not always the case but there are numerous examples).

 

I could say more about that subject because I think it's really interesting, but I'm thinking about writing a huge wall of text about it some day anyway.

[Zenophilious]

"Canonicity" is a very occidental fandom thing, afaik. Like with the Star Wars absurdities of the x levels of canonicity.

It always seemed to me like japanese authors (couldn't tell what it is for fans) don't really care about that. Now when there are sequels of course it might make a route "more canon" than the other, but meh.

For example the sequels/fandisks for Type-Moon games look as if they are based on a sort of blend of all the routes, or something different altogether - the rule being "don't think too much about it".

 

Overall VNs are a lot about meta-fiction, constructing your own story with elements given to you, exploring the possibilities of one setting - with every experience having the same value as the others. It extends to the fact that japanese pop-culture is extremely trans-media - there's a LN and a manga of about everything, and spin-off on various supports are legion, but in the end they're considered as a whole range of possibilities for a single universe rather than one main series and its spin-off (it's not always the case but there are numerous examples).

 

I could say more about that subject because I think it's really interesting, but I'm thinking about writing a huge wall of text about it some day anyway.

Ahhh.  Outside of manga, anime, and VNs, I haven't had that much exposure to Japanese culture, seeing as I don't know very many Japanese people and I haven't even left the US yet.  I'm used to things being considered canon or non-canon, based on who made what and how the original author/creator approves of it.  So...it'd be similar to separate realities, in a sense?  More like a "what if" than "the stuff in the previous game never happened"?  That's pretty intriguing.

 

I just meant "canon" as in, plot confirmed by the makers of the VN through referencing in the sequels, not the way it's used in fanfiction communities.  I sometimes edit game wikis, and canon is thrown around a lot, so I ended up adding it to my lexicon.

[Christfall]

It mostly depends on the VNs genre (and the creators) and is kinda difficult to discuss without spoiling too much.

 

Just take some examples: 

1. Majikoi 

Word of God state every route is canon though no further elaboration is given, likely because it being a romantic comedy type of story.

2. Baldr Sky

Every ending (including the bad ones) is one possible outcome in a parallel world, so in a sense they are all canon because some of the worlds are made possible because the events are directly influenced by a force that is not from that particular world. The sequels/fandiscs mostly take place in parallel worlds that we do not experience in the original game.

 

3. Grisaia

This one is also rather vague, Yuuji technically go through all the heroine's events in both Kajitsu and Meikyuu according to grand route in Rakuen, although it is never made clear how he managed to achieve it in the first place. So it is kinda up to the reader's interpretations at this point.

4. Irotoridori no Sekai + Hikari

Irohika, sequel of Iroseka, is a direct continuation of the original but it's also based on a kind of parallel worlds theory (albeit a more complicated one).

5. Radiant Wing Series ~Yumina the Ethereal~

Corona the Dragon Maiden, the sequel of Yumina the Ethereal, is a continuation from Yumina's True End route.