LemiusK
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Blog Comments posted by LemiusK
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Well, that's all well and good, but it certainly changes my perspective of VNs now, and not in a positive way. If the hentai scenes are as hollow as you've described, and these companies are only adding them because they're catering to the rather niche demographic of eroge players, then it also explains why h-scenes are so superficial, adding nothing of value to the story. Kinda makes me glad I skipped just about all of them, save maybe the one or two exceptions that actually have some valuable story content, but again, disappointed. Kinda cheapens the value of VNs with h-scenes, makes them look like glorified porn games with decent plot.
I mean, not that I'm one to criticize porn games, since I do have my share of nukiges, but the thing is, I'm usually not proud of my fapping to these games and similar pornographic content, and frankly embarrassed by it. I see it as a human need, but not a very respectable one. So yes, I think "respect" is a good word to use here. A loss of "respect" for VNs and what they are, catering to these base needs of human nature for profit. Certainly doesn't make them as appealing anymore. Definitely more laughable if someone decides to call one of these a "masterpiece."
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3 hours ago, Plk_Lesiak said:
Well, yeah, sure, in the confines of our rooms at least. Remember the recent "should I tell my gf?" thread.
And yeah, I guess I was mixing two issues. One is that I think plain porn is always plain porn and I don't think Japanese people have magical powers to extract deeper meaning from hentai. There simply is none. The second is that we shouldn't overstate the "liberal" approach to sexuality in Japan. It's different, but it doesn't mean pornography or eroge are as "accepted" or "mainstream" as some people would like to believe - I was mostly reacting to some statements by the OP, like that Japan's culture is "more promiscuous".
Well, your explanation doesn't explain why VAs are so willing to voice serious stories if they're equally embarrassed about sex and porn then. You seem to be talking about eroge players, but what "the OP" was actually talking about was the VAs, not the players. You missed my point and went a little off-topic a little there.
1 hour ago, alpacaman said:As to why some voice actresses do porn scenes, my guess would be that it's hard to make a living in this job in Japan if you don't do it.
This post - ironically enough since I had previously put him on ignore - at least answered my question, albeit to a small extent. Thanks.
But it still makes me curious about their voicing sessions. I mean, this is all making voicing porn sound like something that's forced out of circumstances, AKA money. I guess you could compare it to the likes of certain actors/actresses in America who give a decent performance in movies, but were really only doing so for a quick paycheck. So I guess it makes sense that money could be enough to persuade these talents to phone in a decent enough performance, in spite of their embarrassment.
But are they unhappy about their jobs? What about VAs who return for sequels, like Kara no Shoujo Episode 2? Do they just think, "Hm, I'm disgusted by my job, but I'm going to need more money anyway, so might as well." Because if the next highly-acclaimed VN I'm reading like G-Senjou no Maou is being voiced by a bunch of actors and actresses who only lent their voices out of obligation to earn money... that does put an interesting spin of perspective on my playthrough. Certainly does make the VN industry sound almost shady and not that different from the porn industry, where certain porn stars also acted out of obligation for the paycheck.
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11 minutes ago, Thyndd said:
However I think it's true that there's a big conceptual difference in the way Japanese people see their porn in VNs. Because yeah, most of the times, h-scenes are just porn, the cases when it actually adds something to the story in any form being pretty rare. Let's call it what it is, and it is porn.
The thing is, in the west in general (and EEUU in particular, I dunno, I'm not 'murican) we kind of have a really hard time wrapping our heads around how porn could be anything more than porn. Either it's a porn movie, or a 'normal' movie. No in-betweens. That doesn't seem to be the case in Japan. You can have an amazingly written story with some porn on top of it to spice things up a little, and nobody bats an eye. And honestly, being so used to it nowadays, neither do I anymore.
Yeah, you summed up what I was thinking writing this blog entry. It's that very different perspective in what a porn scene should be, and I just get the feeling that Japanese people might actually be more passionate and serious about sex scenes, while the more westernized viewers might think of it as something frivolous or for the sole purpose of masturbation, hardly romantic at all. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Japanese people are like that. I've read articles that they have embraced sex as something more sacred than our westernized views, so it's not surprising if they associate "love" and "love-making" with "porn" much more easily.
Still, it just goes to show that there's still a lot more about the Japanese culture, anime, and VNs that the rest of the world still needs time to comprehend. It's just that fundamentally different in ideology.
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1 minute ago, MaggieROBOT said:
Now back to Japan. Did you tried to look for eroge voice actresses? A lot of them go by alias and good luck if you happen to find a single pic of their faces (Of course there are exceptions, like Aoba Ringo). They mostly do eroge and eroge only. And actresses like Sakamoto Maaya and Kawasumi Ayako don't do eroge, except in all ages versions console ports. They're also more well know and they show their faces in events and such.
Yeah, I did have a hunch it was along the lines of something like that, considering that the more popular Steins;Gate and Fate/Stay Night either didn't have any sex scenes or, in the latter case, voiced sex scenes. Grisaia was relatively obscure compared to those two.
Well, it makes more sense now. Still, it's kinda funny, people being asked to voice porn games with serious plot. It's just hard to imagine, considering most American porn stars aren't really talented actresses in the first place. Sure, it's just voicing but... it's just an amusing image, voice actresses asked to act and moan. Obscure eroge actresses or not, they do still offer a decent amount of acting skill in eroge games. It's not something half-assed like in a nukige, where you could tell that the actress barely put in any amount of effort at all. You get stuff like G-Senjou no Maou or even School Days, where a certain amount of convincing emotional voice-acting is required.
I guess it's because I've associated "porn" and "sex" with the more westernized kind of ideas and images that went with those keywords, so it's rather difficult for me to take "porn with serious plot" seriously. Whenever I see a "serious" VN like Kara no Shoujo suddenly pull up a h-scene on me with all the moaning that accompanies it, it's just hard to take it seriously and throws me off the story. It feels like unnecessary filler and could have easily been trimmed down to tighten the plot. So it only makes me wonder what eroge actresses must be thinking. Are they comfortable with it? Or do they simply not care? With many "eroges" having serious acting, you could hardly sum it down to companies hiring half-talented actresses for sex scenes that could easily be acted out by porn stars.
Then again, on the other hand, I guess you could also say that Japanese people take their sex scenes seriously, and they put in that much effort to ensure the love-making scenes contain that much passion and believability. It's something that I could picture Japanese people thinking.
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52 minutes ago, Happiness+ said:
Thank you, I feel like Coco’s route came out of nowhere. 16 year old me was whiplashed because it got meta for some reason. I don’t mind metanarratives like DDLC, but using that as a true end came across as an asspull to me. Like when You said that she wanted to unlock Blick Winkel I was...just...eh... Personally, I felt like it gotten way too out of hand for a simple story of several teenagers trapped inside a underwater amusement park. (Wow, that sentence is so fucking surreal after reading it lolz).
Another problem, is that once BW is unlocked they are basically God. BW can do anything. So, the last moments of saving Coco’s life is basically going back into a literal previous point in space time to save her from her “inevitable” demise. Sigh....
Finally, metanarratives are really dangerous to rely on because you are literally shattering the immersion by breaking the fourth wall.
Yeah, the Blick Winkel side-plot was one of its key problems that made the ending unsatisfying because it's a deus ex machina, and DEMs are often cheap and contrived. While the DEM did play with the element of silent protagonists in VNs, which was honestly brilliant back in the day, I think its existence created more problems rather than benefiting than story. It's a gimmick, and a gimmick that removed any tension the reader might feel. Because BW is God, as you say, there's no tension, and the plot is ruined. You don't sacrifice your story for a gimmick, no matter how clever it is. I'm of the more traditional school of belief that character comes first, plot comes second; everything else after, including plot-hooks and gimmicky plot-devices. That's not to say you can't have a complex mystery surrounding the plot, of course. But if your mystery gets in the way of keeping the readers caring about the most important thing that connects them to the story (characters), then I just feel that it's better to go for something else entirely.
You know of the term, "page-turner", right? Well, Ever17 was like the opposite of that in Coco's route, especially towards the end. It was so obsessed in Blick Winkel remembering events that WE the reader should already experienced (and felt closure for), so obsessed in the gimmick that the writer forgot to keep the reader engaged with some kind of hook. Many of the events towards the end was so predictable that we were two steps ahead of Blick Winkel, knowing how it's going to turn out. That's not what a good page-turner should do, let alone a mystery story.
In that sense, I feel like another cause for the pacing problem was because the truth was revealed by You-haru way too early. If I didn't know about You-haru's real plan, but was informed that Coco was trapped in Lemu, I would have been worried that she might not make it out alive.
52 minutes ago, Happiness+ said:Honestly, what’s worse is that I am not even sure how else they could’ve ended it.
I think that they shouldn't have epilogues for all of the other routes, and only resolve all their conflict in the true end. That's the real main cause for Coco's route being so boring, because there's no real stake. So even if they had used Blick Winkel, they could still have a great story.
The only problem being Kaburaki - his character was abandoned because of BW's existence, making Hokuto (and his character development) a separate entity from Kaburaki.
52 minutes ago, Happiness+ said:But seriously, thanks again for your post. It’s refreshing to see someone who isn’t drinking the “Ever17 is kamige” kool-aid.
I tend to have different opinions regarding most kamige, with the exception of the more mainstream kamiges like Steins;Gate. lol Ever17 just happens to be a kamige I disagreed with because it's such a niched VN that, as you say, isn't suitable for newbies.
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3 minutes ago, littleshogun said:
PS - Since you did mention what you should do in regard of whether you should play continuing Meikyuu in order to knowing what happen to Yuuji and his family, well you can watch the anime itselves to save some times and from there you can decided whether it'll be worth to replay Meikyuu for the main story or not. For the reception, so far I didn't find any critic like usual VN adaptation anime so it should be telling that the adaptation was quite faithful to a degree.
Thanks for the offer but, that seems like a really bad idea. If I watch the anime, I won't bother reading the VN any more, because I would already know what happens. Takes away the suspense from the story and ruins the whole experience. No thanks.
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38 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:
On the other hand, I read Planetarian last year, and it was still amazing. It was by a different author than the most other Key VNs and it actually doesn't have most flaws other Key VNs have. Rewrite is also pretty cool, but it's Key only in name. Summer Pockets, apparently, is also handled by completely new people, though I heard some mixed reactions about how it actually came out.
I have heard great things about Planetarian, though it being a kinetic novel is the main reason why I haven't tried it yet. It's definitely quite high on the list of kinetic novels I might try in the future though, along with Narcissu.
Rewrite, on the other hand, I have tried, and I heard the same thing about it that you have heard about Summer Pockets - mixed reactions, particularly towards its Moon route. Kotori's route, which was my first route, didn't exactly give me a great first impression either, since its pacing was so slow (even when compared to other Key games, so that's saying something). Kotori's route really dragged a lot, with the "good stuff" not appearing 'till much, much later near the end. I've never played another Key game ever since, nor did I complete Rewrite. Might still give Rewrite another chance next time though.
That being said, Tomoyo After (Memorial Edition) is still on my wishlist... Take that as you will.
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And frankly speaking, I think I've outgrown Key VNs. Not that they're childish or anything but... I don't know. Key VNs have gotten progressively worse over the years, and their themes of friendship and family are kinda too corny for me.
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2 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:
You would probably need to replay through the whole VN to reach them, yeah. The new routes spoil the true route, so originally they were supposed to be locked before you finish it. The Japanese version of EX gave you a choice at the very beginning to unlock them (in case you already played the original version), but I don't think you can do it in the official English version.
OR you could just use a 100% save file. Or just skip the additional routes, like I did. I mean, I literally played this game more than five years ago.
As if I would care anymore.
Still, the interest just isn't there anyone, you know? I like that there's an option to skip past the main route and go straight for the new routes, but having moved on from Little Busters (not to mention all Key-produced games in general) for such a long time, to return to that world, that story just for two additional routes/heroines... I don't know. Just feels kinda awkward. It's just not the same feeling as going into a sequel for a VN like Grisaia no Meikyuu (which expands the story for five heroines + Yuuji, not just two). I didn't even like Sasasasasamigawa that much back then.
Thanks for telling me though. I appreciate it. At least I know there's an option to do that should I become interested in the future.
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19 minutes ago, littleshogun said:
If you think that Front Wing (FW) did regressed Michiru at Meikyuu, perhaps this thread at Reddit could give you some reasons lol. Note that it talk about FW's almost broke situation while they already planned the trilogy for Grisaia, and so they decided to make Kajitsu as almost standalone VN (Remove some of Amane's route foreshadowing, and we can have Kajitsu as totally independent VN). Of course seeing that Kajitsu is stand alone VN to some people, any attempt to make the trilogy would be met up with some confusion in regard of the canon. Before you say that Muv Luv did that I would say that Muv Luv here still better as the trilogy because they managed to introduce the major plot hook at Unlimited that was sold together with Extra, while in here both of Kajitsu and Meikyuu did sold as separated VN so it would be fitting if we say that Meikyuu and Kajitsu here is separated to an extend, mostly because FW probably scrambling off to write the original plan that they have with the trilogy in both of Meikyuu and Rakuen.
As for Michiru's AS, well if you feel uncomfortable by that you can treat it as the fanservice for the fan who like idiot Michiru, and I'm sure that it make up most of the fans out there back at Meikyuu development in Japan with the current situation was back then FW probably need to sell Meikyuu as much as possible, possibly to cover the development cost back at Kajitsu. Other than that, we can also say that FW probably thought that Grisaia trilogy need some comedy relief, and poor Michiru was the one that FW chose lol. As for my opinion in regard of the trilogy, I think we can treat Kajitsu as the main entry of Grisaia while at the same time treat both of Meikyuu and Rakuen as the fandiscs, moreso because of the development situation of Kajitsu (Then again, FW did sell Meikyuu as Kajitsu's sequel though, so there's that).
PS - In case you afraid that Rakuen would be unkind to Michiru, feel free to ignore that FD because in there she's pretty much flanderized into the idiot one (And by the way I wouldn't treat Rakuen as the sequel even with FW did mentioned that Michiru got lost in my country Indonesia lol).
Sigh, typical. This is one of those "I could understand your circumstances, but I can't condone it" scenario. I could sympathize with FW's financial situation, but it's kinda hard to accept that Muv-Luv does the same thing but much better. FW truly f***ed it up, and this will definitely affect my final rating for the latter two of the Grisaia trilogy.
Oh well. Enjoyment lost. DROP IT. DROP IT SO HARD LIKE IT'S MARS WITH GRAVITY HEAVIER THAN EARTH'S GRAVITY... ISH. Sigh.
Nah, not really. While I lament the fate of Michiru... and I'll definitely hate Rakuen for what it does to my precious twin-tail... there's still the fate of the four other heroines "worth" exploring. Well, I'm not putting much emphasis on the "worth" here because I don't feel as affectionate about any of them as I did towards Michiru, even Amane, but... it's a sequel to a story I've already experienced, and my curiosity just begs me to find out what happens next. What else am I supposed to do? Ignore it and tell myself I'm satisfied not knowing what happened to Yuuji and his family?
RIP, Michiru. You're still my favorite, in spite of what I said.
*cue Yumiko's quote in Michiru's route how "Nothing is alright anymore"*
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3 hours ago, Ramaladni said:
With my statement, I had meant that if the alternative is a lousy choice system, I would prefer to have a few choices that are meaningful instead of extra fluff. If you're not familiar with those games, they're the very reason why people nowadays instantly default to guides and use walkthroughs even for games with meaningful and thought out choice systems.
Well, I understand that sentiment at least. I find myself having to use walkthroughs more than half of the times, but not for the reason you stated. See, I don't really mind that much if a choice system is illogical or arbitrary. It's more fun that way IMO. Real life is illogical too sometimes, and even arbitrary. Random events occur all the time. I don't mind walking into an adventure where I don't know what would happen if I pick Choice A or Choice B. It's more fun that way not knowing what to expect in life; makes things unpredictable and spices things up.
In fact, if anything, I don't rely on walkthroughs during my first playthrough, and just let myself walk blindly into the game to see what kinds of crazy adventure I'd end up in.
Sure, it's definitely annoying when choices are illogical and lead you to bad ends that don't make sense, but see, I'm someone who thinks the opposite of what you think. I'd rather have a game that offers me many arbitrary choices instead of offering me none and leaving me bored with some linear reading. I'd rather be engaged by an interactive experience than just sit there passively. I'm like a child who needs to be entertained, especially with my lack in attention span.
Look, just for the record, I'm not criticising VNs without choices. I mean, I thought Muv-Luv Alternative was great, and it had no branching routes at all. All I'm saying is, that lack of stimulation in VNs without choices makes me feel like I'd much rather be playing something more engaging, that's all.
Let me further emphasize just how wonderful it is to be reading a VN with choices. Take Aoishiro, for example. There's a "Normal End" near the beginning where, if you choose to (Aoishiro spoiler)
Spoilergo home instead of braving the storm, you go home, and the game ends.
It might seem like a lackluster ending to some, but I like that there's such a sensible option available to me, because I get to weigh the consequences of my decisions later on, whether if having that ending is happier than what the rest of my adventure in Aoishiro would have offered. There's an active player engagement here that gives me a proper stake in what I'm playing. Because I'm put in the protagonist's shoes, or rather, perspective, I'm given awareness of the kind of consequence she would face should she choose a different fate than the one I mentioned above. It's just so much deeper than just a linear read-through where the protagonist has a dilemma over the same decisions, but you don't get an active role in participating in said decision.
3 hours ago, Ramaladni said:I think it's a little ironic that you singled out ME3 since it doesn't matter if Legion survived in the previous game or not, as a replacement will be there instead.
That's a rather unfair way of singling out a flaw in ME3's choice system IMO. Legion being replaced isn't some arbitrary result that doesn't matter. Guess what? Soldiers get replaced in real life too. It happens. It's a result of your comrades dying in war and are in turn replaced by someone else. It happens. It's not arbitrary, and certainly not logical.
And besides, I think you're simplifying things in a logical, almost mathematical way rather than in an emotional manner. Games with choices, not just Mass Effect, were never really about whether if choices make sense, for me at least; they were about whether if they made me feel something significant. Legion gets replaced if he doesn't survive? Doesn't matter to me, because the consequence of Legion dying wasn't whether if I'll lose an additional soldier for the war effort. The consequence of Legion dying was that my beloved comrade, Legion, would no longer be there in ME3. THAT's the consequence, not some superficial consequence like "you don't get a super robot fighting by your side." So YES, Legion dying DID matter to me, someone who actually likes the character and wanted to see him just for one more game. It would be another matter entirely if you tell me Legion survives anyway even if he dies in ME2. Now THAT, that would make his death meaningless.
That being said, yes, if Legion dying had a bigger impact like, you losing the final battle, that would indeed make his death more meaningful. But to be frank, I think that's just being needy and demanding, not to mention having unrealistic expectations. Do you know how difficult it is just to design a basic choice-based game with three branches? I've been a fan of choice-based games for such a long time, so I've done my share of research on the branching system and how they are designed. It's a very arduous task, so I could compromise a little and have choices that would still meaning something to me on SOME emotional level rather than no choices at all.
Going back as to whether Legion surviving has meaning or not. Much like visual novels, designing choice-based games is an art. Visual novels use the aspects of visual novels to make the story deeper and more emotional than your typical literature novel with no pictures or music. Likewise, Bioware has utilized the choices offered in ME2 to make the story far more emotional as well. Do you know what happens in ME3 if Legion doesn't survive? You don't need to make a cruel decision whether if Tali gets to live. You don't need to suffer through the tragic dilemma that's to come had Legion survived. The Legion/Tali dilemma has to be the second most emotional moment in ME3, and I'm thankful that Bioware has wisely utilized such an arbitrary factor (whether if one of your soldiers survived or not) and turned it into something deep and meaningful. And it gets even better when you learn that there's a way to sort of "save both" based on the decisions in your previous games. And before you criticize this, I know that Legion dies either way in ME3, but there's a difference in the way he dies depending on whether if you sacrifice him for Tali or not. That difference is very important and DOES matter, because you have to (ME3 spoiler)
Spoilershoot him in the f***ing head if you choose to sacrifice him for Tali! LOL!
So no, it's not ironic that I singled out ME3, since the choices there do offer the kind of emotional impact I was talking about. It's just a matter of your perspective whether that impact is effective or not.
3 hours ago, Ramaladni said:I haven't played TWD so I can't comment on that, but aren't they fundamentally different games, with completely different budgets?
Well, yes, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that TWD offers far more superficial choices that truly have no impact. And having a lower budget doesn't justify the laziness of Telltale Games, because you know what? The Wolf Among Us, also by Telltale Games, actually has the kind of emotional impact that I was talking about because of a meaningful choice-based system, so saying that they have a low budget just sounds like a cheap excuse to make games cheap and profitable.
3 hours ago, Ramaladni said:I also understand your wish for looking for something emotional in the works you read. I, too, search for an experience I can't get anywhere else, but it doesn't mean something can't be both thought-provoking and emotionally-moving - a deep, lasting impression over a few cheap thrills.
Well, of course stories can be both thought-provoking and emotionally-moving. If there's a story out there like that, it would have attained a good balance, and I would certainly acknowledge its quality. But that still doesn't mean I would care much for the "thought-provoking" part of the story, however. You can have as deep and lasting impression as you like, but if the story material is way too complicated and obtuse for my liking, then I don't really care much for it. I don't really care much for Ever17's needlessly complicated three-dimensional/four-dimensional theory, for example. Such complicated storylines are as superficial to me as your aforementioned "cheap thrill," ironically. I'm afraid that's just how interested I am in thought-provoking stories.
3 hours ago, Ramaladni said:I want to comment on a particular statement you made.
Since I played 428 Shibuya recently (and stopped after a couple of hours) and you seem to like it, I wonder how do you feel about this game's choice system. The story and the characters are interesting, as is the conflict in general and the misadventures that the characters get involved with. However, in the game, you are constantly bombarded with nonsensical Bad ENDs. I like the fact that there are multiple protagonists and they can help each other get out of sticky situations, and also the concept of choices from one character affecting the story of another, but more often than not, you are getting Game Over due to issues that you have absolutely no control over - it was all pre-determined. None of this feels fair or earned, and when you switch character to fix the problem, it doesn't feel smart or rewarding. Despite liking the game, I unceremoniously decided to take a break after getting three Bad Ends within ten minutes.
I've already explained how I feel towards arbitrary choice-systems in the first paragraph of this post. Like I have said, I don't mind walking blindly into a random whacky adventure where I might end up in some illogical place because of a certain choice I made. It can be annoying at times, but the alternative (having no choice at all) is just so much more boring. I'd rather a game developer TRY to make some meaning out of a choice rather than give up and not offer any choice at all.
Furthermore, the choices do have far more logical impact down the line (especially during the final level), so you're missing out. It's notoriously difficult to get the Normal End of Shibuya Scramble because the choices there are rather obtuse, but they DO make sense when you figure out what went wrong. It makes that final happy ending much more rewarding, even if all the earlier endings didn't.
And it's funny you should use the term, "pre-determined." That does play a small role in the story. There's kinda a reason why you have to put so much effort into ensuring everything goes right, and there's a reason why so many of the decisions feel arbitrary and determined by a random factor. You could almost say that it's by sheer luck that these characters avoid those Bad Ends. Yes, luck does play a factor here, and there's a small reason why this is so. It might not be a very satisfying reason for many people (possibly yourself), but for me, I like that luck and destiny played such a role. It makes me feel good somehow about all the decisions these colorful characters had to make to get there, the happy end. But I'm saying too much. It's best that you discover it on your own, that little mention of predeterminism and fate by Kano in the end.
And besides, those nonsensical Bad Ends are humorous enough to keep me entertained. I had fun, and you should too, because the story gets a lot darker and less funny as it goes on... Yeah. Try and have fun while you can. lol Because I ended up crying a lot more than laughing by the end.
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8 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:
Now I'm interested in what your reaction on Rakuen is going to be.
Something about your statement tells me Michiru's fate in Rakuen is a lot worse...
8 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:Actually, this reminded me that the biggest problem with Michiru's AS I personally had is that I felt as if it completely disregarded her development from the original route.
I mean, from what I recall, didn't it basically state in a plain text that Michiru got over her fake tsundere persona?
Hopefully - and I'm saying this with desperate optimism -
Spoilerthat line of text suggesting that she got over her tsundere persona was indicating some time in the far future after her "Labyrinth" AS. Notice how events that occurred at the ending of certain routes in "The Fruit of Grisaia" only happen after the events shown in "The Labyrinth of Grisaia". For example, Amane and her daughter talking about Yuuji at the end of Angelic Howl in "Fruit of Grisaia". This couldn't have happened after Amane's "Labyrinth" AS, obviously, because she was still young, and Amane's daughter was still a baby by the end.
So yeah, hopefully it's something like that... But... even if it is, that still doesn't change how mediocre Michiru's AS is.
If anything, this makes her AS feel even more like filler material now compared to the other AS.
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7 hours ago, Ramaladni said:
In fact, I dislike VNs with too many choices. They can often be meaningless and obscure your path towards reaching your desired ending. I'm not talking about games like Canvas 2 where you're presented, with dozens, hundreds of choices, but perhaps games like Clannad and Kara no Shoujo that leave you wondering how a seemingly meaningless choice you made many hours ago happened to lead to a Bad End. Thus, perhaps I'd say I'd rather have no choices than bad choices if that's the alternative.
Well, I mean, of course meaningless choices are annoying. That's why I prefer a game like Mass Effect over The Walking Dead. The former actually has a bigger impact over the events in Mass Effect 3 (do you get to save Tali, Legion, or both?). The latter is just accessory decorating.
"Balance" is a good word, so is compromise. But ironically, your final compromise seems to be "I'd rather have no choices." That's not balance. That's just giving up a good opportunity IMO.
As I've said, I've recognized that there's depth in VNs with choices, which is why I've also recognized the squandered opportunity here. A lot of people like yourself might not be bothered by VNs with no choices, but VNs with choices have left such an emotional and personal impact on me that my perception has forever been altered by the recognition that there's a much more enriching experience out there where you get to pick which girl you want to hang out with, or whether or not you get to save Japan (or fail it through one of its bad ends). That engagement in player decision is something so meaningful I just couldn't see myself enjoying something passive any longer.
7 hours ago, Ramaladni said:I understand your preference for these type of works (VNs with plenty of choices), as this medium distinguises itself by how much agency is given to the player through forking paths and alternate endings, and it is surely one of the main draws of the medium. However, I believe that agency can be given in different ways other than choices. For example, Umineko is engaging because the many different elements come together to draw you into the atmosphere and it gives you a mystery to solve, while Swan Song forces you to think by yourself by presenting you with the idea of how people and society as a whole would change if they were thrust into catastrophe. How would your own life change if the rules and guidelines that keep society together had no one to uphold them?
I understand your point, but it's a perception that I don't share. I don't like mysteries, and I certainly don't trouble myself too much in solving them. Complex philosophies that make you think about society is all well and good... but in the end, does it really matter? Society's not going to change based on what you think. Society's society. I just see such armchair philosophy musing as rather superficial in the grand scheme of things.
Of course, I do enjoy my share of contemplating about life itself and how my life could change and all that good stuff, but honestly speaking, I'm someone who's more emotional than intellectual, thus the more emotional games that make me feel something rather than stories that make me think about something would be more of my cup of tea. And as I've explained thoroughly above, being a passive bystander reading a story just doesn't make me feel as emotional anymore.
It's like experiencing the joy of sex for the first time, or even discovering a new food. Once I've tasted that emotional stimulation, I developed a craving for games with choices that could no longer be satisfied by anything else. And let me reiterate what I meant by VNs with choices feel more "personal." By "personal," I meant that these stories' bad ends or good ends feel more impactful because I was the one leading up to them. I was the one who either earned that happy ending, or deserve that bad one. Whether it's a bad end or a good one, it's my decision, I've earned it because of my personality and my decision-making. It's more personal that way, and makes for a more engaging experience where the good ending has more meaning, especially one where the main characters also have to fight tooth and nail to earn that happy end. In other words, there's an illusion that the good ending happens because you played a pivotal role. It's not true, obviously, but that's the joy of gaming and illusion. Makes you feel good about yourself and the story too.
The Different Treatment of Sex Scenes: Japan vs. America
in Lemurian Ruins
A blog by LemiusK in General
Posted · Edited by LemiusK
Well, sorry if you feel that way. "Mood" and "tone in speech" are both rather difficult contexts to comprehend in text form, almost impossible even. You can't really judge whether someone's in a foul mood or not from the way he writes.
I remember that I tend to add a lot of emoticons because I was worried that people might think I wasn't joking or was in a bad mood. But then, one of my friends called me out on that and said it was, and I quote, "fucking annoying and makes you look like a retard." Yeah. Needless to say, I didn't speak to him again from then.
Back on topic.
Yeah, I know what you mean. As someone who often talks about narrow-mindedness, I am at least open enough to appreciate that there's a decent story to be found even among superfluous sex scenes. It's just... I really hate filler. And this might be narrow-minded of me, but for me, to define a "masterpiece," I usually need to consider its flaws and impurities. Filler material is an impurity. For me, a "masterpiece" of a story needs to have everything in it contribute to a significant part of the plot. Red herrings are fine, since they act as an element of deceiving the reader for a greater purpose... but h-scenes, they are like you said, fanservice material. Food for the crotch. Even if they were intended to carry a greater purpose like @Ren'ai Arrow described, displaying the love and affection the girl has for the protagonist, too much of something still feels like filler. "Less is more," as they say in writing 101. Unfortunately, most h-scenes are just that dragged out for the purpose of fulfilling customer satisfaction.
But to be honest, I don't really care, in spite of what I said above. I just wanted to get my thoughts out on the pointlessness of h-scenes and their value in a story, but I think even with these "impurities," I don't really care enough to restrict the label of "masterpiece" from eroges. I'm not that uptight. It is annoying, and I do find myself bored by them, but I guess it all comes down to a case-by-case basis after all is said and done. If the story's good enough, I might hardly care at all.
I'll just say this at least, that you make a really good point here:
"sell and shove them in where they don't belong." I don't like feeling like I'm being sold a product I never wanted in the first place. If I bought a VN because I expected a good story, I expect that I'm paying for 100% story, not 80% story and 20% fap material that I didn't want. So it does feel annoying that way, like I'm buying an extra hental DLC that I don't want.