harry_kinomoto

Very interesting discussion going on here. Although I don't have anything to add really, as I gave up pondering "true love" and the like ages ago because it hurt my head, and decided to just ~go with the flow~
As far as love in vn is concerned.. I personally feel that love between two people can be demonstrated with or without sex; it's all down to good storytelling. If it's done well, people should be able to empathize with this love even if they believe that "true love" for themselves should happen a different way.

And sorry to interrupt the topic, but I just wanted to mention a few things related to the commercial rather than philosophical side of sex in vn..

A lot of people are mentioning that studios probably feel they have to have ero in their vn in order to sell them. I'm thinking that it would be really interesting to be able to test this theory.. does anyone have any concrete stats on how well the non-adult Key vn have sold, in comparison to the releases with adult content?
Also I think it would be fascinating to do a survey of Japanese consumers of visual novels to see their opinions. (I specifically say Japanese consumers as this is who the creators are marketing to). Do most consumers buy vn for the ero content or the story? Are people who might be interested in the stories put off by the ero content? Or even put off vn altogether because of a perceived notion that all vn are 'hentai'? What companies are seeking to target markets other than the stereotypical 'horny otaku'? There's otome games for starters, although some of these also feature adult scenes..

Lots of questions.. I'm off to do some googling

@TayPROF Tay: Nice summary. IRL this is a deeply personal topic and each person will come up with their own conclusions - hence why I resisted adding my own into the mix. But by using VN and related media as examples, I was better able to make explicit the reality of either side of the fence, and in doing so, encourage readers to make their own choice on the matter. You see, it is crucially important that whenever a person makes a choice, he/she is fully aware of both negative and positive implications of their choice, and that said choice is made only AFTER these implications have been given due consideration. An informed decision if you will - not dissimilar in principle to what is known in certain fields as informed consent – which you may well have come across during your own travels at some point


(@everyone: )
Anyways, given the relative importance of this topic and the amount of interest it has generated, I think it fitting to add in a little omake~

Disclaimer: this topic is difficult, complex, highly personal, and some people spend entire lives in vain searching for an answer. If I had any choice in the matter I would make it such that no one below the age of 16 sees this - not because I discuss anything explicit; but rather because it is easy to jump to rash conclusions on it without at least some life experience. Of course that's not a possible request on the internet so I'll just say this: don't be satisfied with just one type of answer; trust your intuitions and the voice from your own heart!


Not a conclusion I disagree with. However, let’s take it a few steps further. What, exactly, is “true love”? More specifically, where and when does “just friends” progress to become “true love”; or are they one and the same??
The standard answer to this tends to make reference to the fact that “love” in its entirety takes many forms. Wikipedia, for example, lists 4 types:

Platonic love (“just friends”)
Familial love (between family members)
Romance (between lovers)
Eroticism (sexual feelings)

...and that’s all well and good until you realise that that hasn’t actually answered the question. Because even though they have different names, it does not imply them to be mutually exclusive, nor does it suggest a greater ability to differentiate them; or indeed better enable you to define where one starts and another ends. Indeed it raises more questions than it does answers, the million-dollar one being:

What relation, if any, do these categories have with this legendary "true love"?


If you haven’t yet been totally scared off, let me give you an idea of the scale of this question by referencing Schadenfreude and Tay:


Schadenfreude is right. You literally can’t get closer (physically anyway) to a person than by having sex with them. But is doing so really as interlinked with ”real” love as Tay argues? If it is, does it then mean that familial love, or your love for your mates, is not “real”, because it does not include having sex? By extension, does this mean that VNs looking to showcase “real” love actually SHOULD include sex scenes after all? Is incest indeed WINcest because by combining three different types of love (familial, romantic and erotic) it is made that much more powerful? And if not, what is it in normal sibling, and other non-eroticised relationships, that makes any love in them ”real” or “true”?? Any attempt at answering the main question should, at least, suggest a way to approach each of these dilemmas.


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I don’t really expect replies, but anyone willing to share their thoughts would be highly welcome and indeed encouraged. To be given the opportunity to read and understand differing opinions is indeed what makes forums so enjoyable, after all~