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Fuwa? What happened?


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I love how you use the term bad, as vague and subjective as the term is of course it wouldn't be a bad thing... if you applied a certain set of standards usually found in the young and the male. But when it denegrates women to sexual objects one can reasonably assume it will cause offense, and even if it does not it cannot be construed as providing a welcoming atmosphere to women, which is what Fuwanovel is actually about.

 

 

One could, but the idea of providing a welcoming atmosphere is that one shouldn't be expected to.

 

 

It's called a community. I advise you learn to live in one.

 

 

It is very simple, you live in a community where a certain organisation or person runs the joint. These people's view are better than yours, holier than yours, and the only ones that matter. Don't like it? Look at all the fucks I give.

 

 

Like Fuwa erased torrents? 

 

 

Strawman. Congratulations.

 

 

Laughable attempt at justification.

Well that is but your own point, as always I take it with a grain of salt(because that's how anyone should do on matters such as this) and may or may not agree.

 

Now the mention to torrents is not even relevant, and the justification that you appoint as laughable is perfectly fine, if you don't agree with it, there's nothing further that I can add to it.

 

On another note, yes I know what is to live in a community, the fact that you are trying to leave out what you believe to not be right could point that affirmation right back at you.

 

You also consider the term bad as vague(in which I completely agree) but when I applied that logic, it suddenly had no bearing for some reason.

 

But my big point is that you are taking a joke and putting out of context as something serious. All communities will have their fair share of immature(or of lesser level if you want to classify them as such) jokes, expecting anything related to that is either not knowing what human interaction is or just the nature of a control freak(note: I'm not calling anyone as such, before anyone tries to tear this down).

 

"Don't like it? Look at all the fucks I give." I could consider such sentences as this immature and childish myself, what is not to say that it is not offensive to someone? I digress though.

Also no, that is not in any way, shape, or form the strawman fallacy. Because in terms of the actual meaning what I'm saying is right, it's just that the ethical views on it may vary.

 

Again these are my 2 cents, I don't intend them to have any actual relation to a universal truth or something even close to that. What bothered me about this incident is that some people decided to tear part something that at it's core was harmless(I know, subjective opinion) and made it become part of a serious problem.

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Well Rooke, sorry but i also disagree with you, you're being extreme, my view is that i'm okay with sexist jokes as long as it's well usen and that it don't become the standard rule.

 

But your view of Fuwa scares me, i don't want a political correct forum with a big brother. 

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WHen it's constant, constant jokes about sexism, its not funny anymore.

 

Let's say, you live in a town, where everyday, everyday, with no stop, townsmen do jokes about your Origins, sometimes very harsh jokes, do you really think you'll find it as funny as at the first day?

 

Dark humour is hard to use, because you have to target everyone, if you target only a category of citizens, it's not Humour, it's discrimination, it's racism. 

I agree, that's why I said it should be fixed or toned down at least by some degree because thinking that you can just erase it 100% is a bit naive...

And yes dark humor is always a step behind racism that's why I don't use it on the internet (I love dark humor) but I use it only with friends, same thing goes with joking about sexism or any other senstive matter.

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While I agree that some of the trolling threads and especially the follow up spam went way too far, I wouldn't say everything like that should be banned from the forums. Something is lost if you can't joke about sex anymore. But more consideration for others is never a bad thing.

 

 

But as a newcomer I can say that Fuwa is pretty welcoming. I haven't seen any noob bashing and people are generally friendly and accepting. The intimidation factor on Visual Novel boards is pretty high though. I was afraid of posting because I felt like my opinions didn't matter and were inferior to the VN gurus' opinions. But feedback was really positive and encouraging, something I haven't seen elsewhere. My initial expression wasn't that Fuwa is full of elitist or sexist pigs, but open to all kinds of discussion. And I haven't seen any malicious joking. Tasteless sometimes, but not something that was meant to hurt or degrade others.

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So people are speaking for the entire female population of Fuwa even when they don't fall into that category now, huh?

 

When I signed up for a forum that was centered around eroge, I knew what I was getting into. I knew that I was going to be in the minority, but you know what? I didn't really care. I found a place where I could talk freely about these things, and as a result, I've never felt the need to censor my thoughts when posting here. And you know what? I have never once felt "discriminated against" or whatever else some people are calling it now. I've never felt like I've been treated differently because I'm a woman. Ever. I've never once been asked why I only play games aimed at men when I could be playing games aimed at women. The fact that I obsess over female characters has never once been questioned. If these things had happened, and people were ridiculing me  for it, THEN I would be willing to call sexism. Someone singling me out for my gender would be sexism. Threads about how attractive butts are may seem immature to some, but it's not offensive. There's definitely a fine line between the two, in my opinion, and I genuinely don't believe that Fuwa crosses it. Note that this is just one person in a group of many, but as part of the group involved in this particular issue, I think it's worth mentioning.

 

In terms of inside joke threads? Yeah, I see where people are coming from on that. As someone who is more content to sit on the outside of things sometimes, I do think the amount of topics that are aimed only at a select group of people is a bit unfair. That is one point I will agree on.

 

But honestly, the site really doesn't seem THAT different from when I joined in 2013. There's always been spam, there's always been meaningful discussion, and there's always been everything in between. It would be boring if we only had discussion, and it would be irritating if we only had spam. But the two CAN coexist, and that's one of the things I love about this place. 

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Is it only me or the video that's been mentioned here and made all that ruckus was actually not offending and not sexist in any way? (if it was offending to anyone , it was hestia : < )

 

Stop trying to pin the crime of sexism on that video and that thread, it's like saying that things like Isis-chan on youtube are offending to muslims.

 

Even if you do see it to be offending, the guy in question deleted the video and apologized, isn't that enough? can't we lay the whole thing to rest already? This like a waste of time especially to some busy people like Tay.

 

And I will stress on this part since it's rather really important: Fuwa is the same as back then , don't make it seem as if you suddenly woke up from your long slumber and found fuwa very different, the only difference here is that the people who make these pointless threads are people who you are not accustomed with at all. And that doesn't mean that they should stop it. They totally have the right to make them as much as you had the right to back in the day. 

 

if there is anything different now, it's that there are no lolis and no steve as much as before

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So people are speaking for the entire female population of Fuwa even when they don't fall into that category now, huh?

 

When I signed up for a forum that was centered around eroge, I knew what I was getting into. I knew that I was going to be in the minority, but you know what? I didn't really care. I found a place where I could talk freely about these things, and as a result, I've never felt the need to censor my thoughts when posting here. And you know what? I have never once felt "discriminated against" or whatever else some people are calling it now. I've never felt like I've been treated differently because I'm a woman. Ever. I've never once been asked why I only play games aimed at men when I could be playing games aimed at women. The fact that I obsess over female characters has never once been questioned. If these things had happened, and people were ridiculing me  for it, THEN I would be willing to call sexism. Someone singling me out for my gender would be sexism. Threads about how attractive butts are may seem immature to some, but it's not offensive. There's definitely a fine line between the two, in my opinion, and I genuinely don't believe that Fuwa crosses it. Note that this is just one person in a group of many, but as part of the group involved in this particular issue, I think it's worth mentioning.

 

In terms of inside joke threads? Yeah, I see where people are coming from on that. As someone who is more content to sit on the outside of things sometimes, I do think the amount of topics that are aimed only at a select group of people is a bit unfair. That is one point I will agree on.

 

But honestly, the site really doesn't seem THAT different from when I joined in 2013. There's always been spam, there's always been meaningful discussion, and there's always been everything in between. It would be boring if we only had discussion, and it would be irritating if we only had spam. But the two CAN coexist, and that's one of the things I love about this place. 

I cannot make most of this argument because I am a male not a female, but I was kind of trying to make a point akin to this. So thank you for doing it in a better way than me.

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On another note, yes I know what is to live in a community, 

 

 

Gooooood. Because a community is run using a set of values sometimes imposed over your own. They’re called laws. If you live in a community you should be familiar with the concept. If you call your community a dictatorship, you’ll just be laughed at. By people like me.

 

 

But my big point is that you are taking a joke and putting out of context as something serious. All communities will have their fair share of immature(or of lesser level if you want to classify them as such) jokes, expecting anything related to that is either not knowing what human interaction is or just the nature of a control freak(note: I'm not calling anyone as such, before anyone tries to tear this down).

 

So kind of you, so kindly displaying your ignorance of sexual harassment law like that.

 

what is not to say that it is not offensive to someone? I digress though.

 

And if you were actually half-way knowledgeable concerning sexual harassment laws, you'll know why this is an application of half the principle.

 

Also no, that is not in any way, shape, or form the strawman fallacy. Because in terms of the actual meaning what I'm saying is right, it's just that the ethical views on it may vary.

 

Actually it's the very definition of a strawman fallacy seeing as you have attributed a false position to me. Keep protesting though, it's fairly amusing

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Is it only me or the video that's been mentioned here and made all that ruckus was actually not offending and not sexist in any way? (if it was offending to anyone , it was hestia : < )

 

Stop trying to pin the crime of sexism on that video and that thread, it's like saying that things like Isis-chan on youtube are offending to muslims.

 

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Well Rooke, sorry but i also disagree with you, you're being extreme, my view is that i'm okay with sexist jokes as long as it's well usen and that it don't become the standard rule.

But your view of Fuwa scares me, i don't want a political correct forum with a big brother.

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Can you please give up with this whole "Video" thing. I really don't have a clue what this video is. This thread isn't and will never be about ren. To be honest I don't even read his threads. I've said this time and time again, its not about ren. Saying this is kind of boring now :/

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I feel like a million people are arguing a million different things at once. We're honestly not getting anywhere. I highly suggest the people with complaints and things to say open up specific topics about what they think is exactly wrong, otherwise we're just going to continue having this "It's Ren's video! No, it's those troll threads! No, It's those lazy mods!" Forever.

 

And I do request that this thread be locked if the aforementioned is to come to pass. Since this place has no use anymore.

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then why the hell are we discussing sexism then?

Maybe I am ignorant and some posts came out of nowhere talking about women's body parts and then were mentioned by Rooke in various posts as an action of objectifying women. As far as I know only one post had anything to do with females in that day other than that video thread (aka oppai thread), heck in that week nothing had anything to do with females. So there are two cases:I am ignorant to the posts here or u mean the other thread and if that's the case, it got deleted and the one who made the other thread said he would take responsibilty and apologized so my point still stands

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then why the hell are we discussing sexism then?

Maybe I am ignorant and some posts came out of nowhere talking about women's body parts and then were mentioned by Rooke in various posts as an action of objectifying women. As far as I know only one post had anything to do with females in that day other than that video thread (aka oppai thread), heck in that week nothing had anything to do with females. So there are two cases:I am ignorant to the posts here or u mean the other thread and if that's the case, it got deleted and the one who made the other thread said he would take responsibilty and apologized so my point still stands

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Is it only me or the video that's been mentioned here and made all that ruckus was actually not offending and not sexist in any way? (if it was offending to anyone , it was hestia : < )

 

Stop trying to pin the crime of sexism on that video and that thread, it's like saying that things like Isis-chan on youtube are offending to muslims.

 

Even if you do see it to be offending, the guy in question deleted the video and apologized, isn't that enough? can't we lay the whole thing to rest already? This like a waste of time especially to some busy people like Tay.

 

And I will stress on this part since it's rather really important: Fuwa is the same as back then , don't make it seem as if you suddenly woke up from your long slumber and found fuwa very different, the only difference here is that the people who make these pointless threads are people who you are not accustomed with at all. And that doesn't mean that they should stop it. They totally have the right to make them as much as you had the right to back in the day. 

 

if there is anything different now, it's that there are no lolis and no steve as much as before

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Gooooood. Because a community is run using a set of values sometimes imposed over your own. They’re called laws. If you live in a community you should be familiar with the concept. If you call your community a dictatorship, you’ll just be laughed at. By people like me.

 

 

 

So kind of you, so kindly displaying your ignorance of sexual harassment law like that.

 

 

And if you were actually half-way knowledgeable concerning sexual harassment laws, you'll know why this is an application of half the principle.

 

 

Actually it's the very definition of a strawman fallacy seeing as you have attributed a false position to me. Keep protesting though, it's fairly amusing

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I can't speak for what's happening today. However, even way back fuwa has its share of spam and chatters.

The difference imho is that way back, there are only two sub communities (IRC and Steve TS). As such, the context of these thread are often understood by the forum. Less sub communities and less members means that around 40-50% will get what you mean.

Compare it today where we have lots of sub communities and more members. Sometimes I read a thread without knowing what it is even referring to

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BUT if we don't try to tie in this video-gate with how the new people are ruining the forums what will we have to complain about???!!!? Seriously tho almost every forum/game/whatever I have ever seen goes through this. People really need to learn to take off the red nostalgia glasses and see that its no worse now than 2 years ago.

My very initial point

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I can't speak for what's happening today. However, even way back fuwa has its share of spam and chatters.

The difference imho is that way back, there are only two sub communities (IRC and Steve TS). As such, the context of these thread are often understood by the forum. Less sub communities and less members means that around 40-50% will get what you mean.

Compare it today where we have lots of sub communities and more members. Sometimes I read a thread without knowing what it is even referring to.

Yes and in the new rules, it is stated that we keep injokes and other groups out of Fuwa but thats almost impossible. It's bound to end up there 

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I just said that in my opinion the fact that you didn't want anything that you considered as trash is discrimination, if you want to interpreted as something falsely attributed to you, that's just how it is.

 

 

1 - Once again that's a strawman. I consider spammy posts trash, and yet I made a suggestion to Tay to create a lounge where people could get to know each other (I think... it was a long time ago,) and also suggested the posts in the Chatter forum be counted in people's post counts. This is me being considerate to other people's feelings. There are posts I decide go far, I label such things "retarded" not trash.

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I blame the mods personally, and this is the reason why:

 

Every time a single post or thread crosses the line, the mods dig their heels in until a whole big fricken deal is made out of it. They refuse to close things because it's fun, and then we get into a big argument about it. If they'd be willing to deal with the few posts which get out of line, without making a big ruckus about it, then this sort of blow-up wouldn't happen.

 

3 threads were closed, and Nosebleed mentioned it was because people couldn't take a joke. So yeah, mod attitudes not helping here.

  

The threads have been hidden.

 

Can I remind people to calm down. You're getting too angry. This is a discussion.

Ok then first off u shouldn't have mentioned sexism since it is clearly not your point here. I do know the three hidden/closed posts and if u want I can even say their names which for some reason seems to be a taboo in the discussion. You here are just getting off topic.

I suggest dropping all the ongoing conversations here and if u have a problem, come outright and say it. Do you want old fuwa? This is the same as old fuwa except for the small things I mentioned. Do you want there to be a rule that anything thay harms morals aka is offensive shouldn't be posted? Then the mods said they will resolve this. Finally do you want the pointless threads to vanish? Then just ask tay to remove the coc since yeah if u haven't already guessed it, this is a board for pointledd threads.

I agree with babi, this should be locked since we are going nowhere.

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Lewy wants old Fuwa I don't. 

 

Tay asked Lewy to expand on a point he made, he expanded on that point through me. Others then butted into the conversation. To be perfectly frank HSM, it's all of you which have hijacked the thread. It was a post aimed at Tay, as Tay's was aimed at Lewy.

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