Fuwa? What happened?

[Tay]

(Okay. I’m just going to talk directly to Lewy, but y’all can listen in and pretend I’m talking to you, too.)

 

Hi Lewy. You look fabulous today. Hope you’re well. Anyway. Yes, thank you for bringing these things up. I really appreciate it when people speak up like this.

 

 

#1 - “Why aren’t I seeing progress on the front page?

 

This is kinda hard to answer. A lot actually has been done, Lewy, and Nay and I are still working on it fairly actively (Nay’s been busy the last 2 weeks, but we’re picking up). I realize you’re upset that the new front site hasn’t rolled out yet, but that doesn’t mean work has stalled. Nay is working on the coding, and I’m working on the new content. There’s actually a LOT that’s going into the new site which you may not expect. For example: according to Outlook, I’ve spent 53 front-site-dedicated hours in the last 30 days working on academy lessons, writing/rewording text assets, planning games pages, coordinating with companies and devs about outreach features, and, yes, drooling over Emi’s and Beato’s work and Nay’s themes : P. Nay’s put in significant time as well. I want the new site to be up just as much – maybe even more : P – than you do, but the fact of the matter is that we don’t want to put up a crappy product, and we need to make sure we don’t burn out. We aren’t a business. We’re a fan site. And it’s important to keep perspective if we don’t want to burn out.

 

 

 

#8 - “Fuwa is going to die because it isn’t going anywhere.”

 

Oh, I’m calling hyperbole on this one : P. (But I love ya. I’m always kinda touched when you speak up about this, Lewy, because I appreciate that you care.) My honest reaction to this is to wonder if we’re both at fault: I recognize that I’ve done a poor job regularly communicating the cool stuff/updates we’re working on, but on your end it sounds like you haven’t been paying attention to all the stuff we *have* been doing. Fuwa’s traffic and engagement with the wider VN audience, and interactions with new VN players is likely at an all-time high from what I’ve been seeing lately.

 

Consider some of the stuff we’ve done in the last 60 days, for example:

• We’ve started our own VNTS program on the blog which has become quite popular, built VNTL-Moon (a TL updates aggregator), negotiated with the demeteloaf and the other nice guys on /r/visualnovels (Reddit) to get our VNTS posts included in their weekly TL posts (which I’m really appreciative of), and we’re drawing in a lot of traffic to the other Fuwa sites with this focus on TL
• A step-wise overhaul of Fuwa’s SEO which has had a major impact on visibility in the US, Europe and some parts of Asia (this is still in-progress because it’s complicated and takes a while)
• We’ve hired an analyst to help us track and improve our social media presence (focusing first on FB)
• After torrents went offline we restructured all of the sites and submitted them for review to 5 different tests, and were validated on all 5 (aka: we’re clean, and we’re safe to invest in the site). This was coupled with work to make sure all the site staff are squared away with participating on the site
• We got a new forums theme (party!)
• Launched the IP.Blogs and IP.Content apps
• I’ve got us approved (or in the process of approval) for 7 different affiliate programs to help pay for hosting (will be implemented on the “Buy” sections of game pages, etc.)
• ~40 more hours have gone into building the VN Reviews hub (still a little left to go before we can launch it in a major way, tho)
• I’ve successfully corrupted zaka
• We launched the VN players mentor program (I’m in the process of following-up on that, and eventually I’ll write up a brief report in case people are interested in how well the program worked)
• Added 5 new blogs to the reviews hub, talking with 4 more
• Negotiating partnerships with a few other VN communities
• I’m ~60% done reaching out to TL groups whose patches we used to host, as promised in my reddit open letter
• We’ve spent ~10 or so hours helping connect skilled hackers/TLers/TLCers/Editors with projects
• Overhauled the dev boards, got the two dev blogs functional
• Got the recognition team up and running (and they’re doing a great job, imo)
• We’re negotiating with a half-dozen devs or studios to get reviews copies of games for the reviews team, and extra licenses for giveaways and contests
• I’ve failed to give Rooke the attention his PMs deserve (< is that a positive? Hm. Not sure. Maybe I’d have more compassion if it weren’t for a certain drinking game he enjoys.)
• We’re ~50% done prepping our Google+ launch
• Oh, gosh. It’s 1AM here and my brain’s a little fuzzy. The last thing I’ll mention is we’ve done a lot of experimenting with financial stuff, too, and how best to keep Fuwa in the black (< which hasn’t yet happened : P). This takes a lot more time than you’d expect.

That’s not an inconsequential list, but there are probably a lot of people who weren’t aware that we were working on all of the above. I mean, I hope you’re impressed with that list : P. We’re a hobby site, Lewy. Nobody’s being paid to do this (I’m literally operating at a loss, and Nay, for example, has a substantial opportunity cost to code for us instead of working overtime and rollin’ in the dough), and I’d much rather we all work at a sane pace and not burn out than run forward and unbalance our RL responsibilities.

 

 

#5 – “The LC is dead.”

 

Well, first of all, I didn’t realize that non-mods couldn’t post topics in the LC. That’s since been fixed. Apologies, Batman et. Al.  That was a major oversight, and I do feel bad about it.

 

You’re correct in that the LC has been pretty quiet lately, but that’s largely because we already decided on our priorities list and financial plan for Q1 2015, so there wasn’t a lot for us to talk about. We’re only just entering May (aka: Q2 2015), and I’m almost done drafting our next set of site priorities (read: project goals) and financial plan (I hoped to have it ready earlier this week, but a few devs have been slow to get back to me and I decided to wait so my reports would be complete). LC activity will increase when those are posted. That’s just the way these sorts of advisory committees work, Lewy. (In case you were concerned, the LC was made aware of the Q2 reports’ delay, and they knew the reasons for it, too.)

 

 Also, just remember that the LC is an advisory body for discussion about site issues. It’s not a decision making body. If you think a part of Fuwa isn’t working well, it’s the project managers (and then me) who have the power to change stuff. A quiet LC doesn’t mean their decision-making capacity is lessened in any way.

 

 

 

#2 - Mods not modding strictly enough/ Forums content is getting pretty bad

 

I posted about this several days ago, and I’ll continue to work with the mods on the issue.

 

 

#4.Fuwa used to be small, close community and it’s changing

 

Fuwa’s definitely growing, and keeping our best qualities (respect, friendliness, etc.) through the growth can be challenging. I think your worries are pretty normal. I’ve got them, too, from time to time. The best way I’ve learned to deal with it is to not focus on an abstract “Fuwanovel” – focus on the hobby and the goal to make VNs popular/support VNs in the West. All communities have problems, but we’ll be in especially bad shape if we start focusing too much on the meta-concept of Fuwanovel, and less on the hobby and our community goals.

 

 

#3 - Sexism

 

I do worry a lot about this and I’m being as proactive as I can in brainstorming this issue. I can’t talk about any specifics yet, but Fuwa’s actually hosting some fascinating and enlightning private discussions among VN community leaders about this issue. When they’re all completed, you’ll see a handful of posts go up on the blog about the conferences and ideas/discussions we had.

 

 

#9 - Maef for admin

 

Look. Nobody wanted this more than me, but Maef failed to turn in a completed application and – by Fuwa’s own laws – I couldn’t consider him for the job.

 

I’m SORRY, but it wasn’t my fault.

 

 

#6 – Need more admins

 

I’d be interested in hearing what you mean by this. I’m going to hold off in commenting yet because I think we’d be talking right past each other until you are a little clearer. Try to be as concrete as possible. That’ll help.

 

 

#10 – Thanks for meeting us halfway

 

A lot of people have been extremely cool and stepped up in the comments and said they’re going to help us keep the forums looking/working better. I just want to say that I’m really, really grateful for everybody who is meeting us halfway.

 

 

 

 

I realize I didn’t get to all 10 points, but my brain is really, really tired and I think I should probably stop to let you respond. Thanks for posting, Lewy. I mean it.

- Tay

[Zenophilious]

Double post, b& 

 

Good to hear from you again, Tay!  I know you guys are all pretty busy, but when people don't hear anything, they tend to be pessimistic.  Might be a good idea to send someone info like this on a regular basis so they can give people updates.

 

EDIT: I reached my like quota for the day...

[atorq]

Ah, the good old days when everything was glorious, no one was being an asshole and everything was perfect. Why is it that humans have to be so reminiscent of past? On every forum I have ever been there have always been the old veterans talking about how everything used to be better (this also seems to be the case for life in general). Everything was not better, you just remember the good parts. And inevitably as the forum grows there will be more assholes and immature users, but some good old rules and mods should be able to care of this.

 

And to Finnish (get it? cuz i'm a finn, hueheheh) I'd like to say that this has so far been the nicest forum I have yet to visit. The asshole ratio seem to be quite low so far even if it increased with me.

[Deep Blue]

I think the tolerance on this forum is pretty high, you can ask the same question over and over again and the users will help you out no matter what, when in other forums they will start trolling you or behaving like semi-gods...

 

Recently I have seen a lot of topics about inside jokes but I don't even enter them because it's really easy to tell which topics are those

[Darklord Rooke]

Dear Tay

 

Due to Lewy’s frustration at being unable to jot down exactly what he means, he has asked me to articulate his arguments for him. You’re a lucky, lucky man Tay. But don’t worry, before I started to write this post Lewy and I had a long argument where he role-played himself and I role-played you (I was extra careful to include the words “parsing,” “extant,” “meta,” and “a rising tide lifts all ships,” it wouldn’t have been authentic otherwise.) Anyway I now feel I have a decent understanding of what he wants to say, so treat this post as if it came from Lewy.

 

But before we do, some proof that Lewy indeed asked me to represent him.

 

 

 

We need a stable Admin group who always has someone who is active and keen to help and keep projects alive.

[OriginalRen]

2 – We are aiming to become a home for all people in the VN community. A respectful and relaxing place not just for those into eroge, but for those who only like all-ages VNs, and also for those who only like otome. A place where any person of any gender can relax, enjoy themselves, and have fun, something made possible because of the respectful atmosphere Fuwanovel generates. Therefore the sexual objectification of women, the giggling at real life tragedies, all those elements people find despicable in 4-chan should not be a part of the forums. We don’t want to become the sewer just above that sewer named 4-chan, we want to be a welcoming haven for not only young men but young women also.

[ohiowar]

3 – Forum management should be mostly on auto-pilot to free up time for your more important and sinister shenanigans, but the mods are too willing to indulge in disrespectful threads as long as things are fun. “Fun” is the new catch-cry by the Fuwa higher-ups it seems. They fling it out like it’s one of the core tenets guiding the management of the site, and as long as things are fun then things should be allowed to continue. Anybody against fun threads is just another “hater of fun.” You know what? I think I’ll apply this principle in society. I’m going to sit in front of the homeless and burn hundred dollar bills, I’m going to run round and round those with no legs then do high-kicks, and lastly I’ll sit next to the sightless and loudly proclaim what a blessing it is to be able to see. I’ll be enjoying myself, I won’t be breaking any laws, so everything’s just peachy right? Right? Or maybe Fuwa doesn’t want to be the internet equivalent of a snot-nosed brat?

 

 

You are taking thing to a crazy extreme. As I have said calm down and have so fun if you are easy  offended by thing maybe you should take the time to relax. Not everything need to be taken seriously. I am not really see a huge problem on fuwa. Yeah they was to much trolling but going around calming sexism really. Many thread have been closed due to being offending to some people. You can't make everyone happy. You are going to run acoross thing you don't like on the internet. You need to learn to deal with it. Maybe fuwa does have a problem maybe it does not. What I am seeing is people who are mad do to thing they don't like and think the froums should change because they want it to change. Fuwa has always had shit pointless threads and some not so nice threads.. Most forums do you can't just have vn talk all day long. I wish I was a better writer. Maybe people who are taking thing too serious are the porblem. Fuwa is a very good place. I am happy to be a member here even so i do not post much

[Yuuko]

I understand that you are not targetting me with this point Lewy, but please stop. As a personal request from me, this makes me extremely depressed and uncomfortable as a member of this forum knowing I am viewed as someone who sexually objectified women in a video I made for my YouTube channel. It seems to be such a problem that a whole rule needs to be made about it. Regardless if I apologize or not, the damage has been done and the constant reminder to state that sexism is an issue on Fuwanovel now makes me realize my humor that I have been able to enjoy for over a year is now viewed as trash. I am genuinely afraid to post anything anymore for fear it will be viewed as racist or sexist.

 

I don't want to be reminded of that, so please keep it to a PM?

I'm sorry if you don't want to hear about this again but I wanna make sure you'll still keep making us fun videos.

I haven't watched all your videos but your jokes and talk about butts is okay and fun for me in your figure videos but for some people an entire video dedicated butts was just too much. So you need to just refrain yourself from making that kind of video again

[Darklord Rooke]

You are taking thing to a crazy extreme. As I have said calm down and have so fun if you are easy  offended by thing maybe you should take the time to relax. Not everything need to be taken seriously. I am not really see a huge problem on fuwa. Yeah they was to much trolling but going around calming sexism really. Many thread have been closed due to being offending to some people. You can't make everyone happy. You are going to run acoross thing you don't like on the internet. You need to learn to deal with it. Maybe fuwa does have a problem maybe it does not. What I am seeing is people who are mad do to thing they don't like and think the froums should change because they want it to change. Fuwa has always had shit pointless threads and some not so nice threads.. Most forums do you can't just have vn talk all day long. I wish I was a better writer. Maybe people who are taking thing too serious are the porblem. Fuwa is a very good place. I am happy to be a member here even so i do not post much

 

Fuwa is a place with a respectful atmosphere, it’s not a place where sexual objectification of women can be claimed to be okay because people are enjoying themselves, that’s not kosher. And whether it’s allowed is not your call to make.

 

I know of at least one woman member who was on the verge of leaving because of your funny funny threads, so I DO see a problem. Especially when it’s a goal of Fuwa to be more welcoming to that section of the fanbase.

 

Fuwa isn’t the entirety of the internet, but a respectful and welcoming corner of it. Because it emphasises respect, it obviously has some limitations of what is and what isn’t allowed behaviour wise. You don’t get to do whatever you like anywhere you like because you want to enjoy yourself, and you don’t get to behave as you please in the Chatter forums. You obey the tenets and principles of wherever you happen to be.

 

And if I was a woman I wouldn’t be anywhere the hell near Fuwa. Maybe that’s why most of them aren’t.

[Chewy]

Let me add that this "problem" of yours isn't actually very special, Most forums I have lurked around are a LOT worse than Fuwa to the point where the forums die. Also, I think you are just feeling a bit nostalgic. Everything will change, one way or another. I'm sure some people would have heard someone there say "back in my day"....People always believe that something they like used to be good. It happens when something changes, you like how it used to be for you are used to it. Newer members like me joined when the forums were pretty much as it is now. That could be the source of the change. The stream of new members+slight change over time has added together to form quite a large change. But of course, I'm just a "newfag" and don't understand anything.

 

Also about the sexism and whatnot, yes it's bad, yes people got offended, but it isn't the worse thing in the world. Why can't people just move on after they realise everyone is repenting? This is like the damn second world war where everyone hates the Japanese people and the Germans. Why can't people in their hearts find the guts to forgive these people?This will just lead to further sadness, anger and tensions.However bad something is, people should learn to forgive. 

[ohiowar]

Fuwa is a place with a respectful atmosphere, it’s not a place where sexual objectification of women can be claimed to be okay because people are enjoying themselves, that’s not kosher. And whether it’s allowed is not your call to make.

 

I know of at least one woman member who was on the verge of leaving because of your funny funny threads, so I DO see a problem. Especially when it’s a goal of Fuwa to be more welcoming to that section of the fanbase.

 

Fuwa isn’t the entirety of the internet, but a respectful and welcoming corner of it. Because it emphasises respect, it obviously has some limitations of what is and what isn’t allowed behaviour wise. You don’t get to do whatever you like anywhere you like because you want to enjoy yourself, and you don’t get to behave as you please in the Chatter forums. You obey the tenets and principles of wherever you happen to be.

 

And if I was a woman I wouldn’t be anywhere the hell near Fuwa. Maybe that’s why most of them aren’t.

My thread. I did not even make any of the trolling threads. Fuwa is very respectful place. And yes it not my call or your call to make.

[Lewycool]

Let me add that this "problem" of yours isn't actually very special, Most forums I have lurked around are a LOT worse than Fuwa to the point where the forums die. Also, I think you are just feeling a bit nostalgic. Everything will change, one way or another. I'm sure some people would have heard someone there say "back in my day"....People always believe that something they like used to be good. It happens when something changes, you like how it used to be for you are used to it. Newer members like me joined when the forums were pretty much as it is now. That could be the source of the change. The stream of new members+slight change over time has added together to form quite a large change. But of course, I'm just a "newfag" and don't understand anything

I feel like you're missing the point. I've said this before. 

 

"The thing is, why would you even want to be like them? It's like when you're in school and the teacher tells you off but you say "But he/she is doing it too". It doesn't matter what the other VN communities do, it's about what we do And what we do to represent ourselves and how to show that we really care about what we all believe in."

 

 

You're really stretching the "New member" right there...

[Darklord Rooke]

 Fuwa is very respectful place.

 

Relative statement, it doesn't rank in the top 5 forums regarding places I visit.

 

And yes it not my call or your call to make.

 

You do realise it's Tay's intent to clamp down on that sort of trash? Feel free to keep disregarding anything you don't like to hear though.

[Deep Blue]

 

And if I was a woman I wouldn’t be anywhere the hell near Fuwa. Maybe that’s why most of them aren’t.

Come on...you can't be serious about that, yes there are some thread that won't appeal to most of the female genre but I've been here like half a year already and nothing changed much since the first day to be honest and I have never seen any user being disrespectful against a woman, they do joke around a lot and this can be taken in some offensive way but the internet is like that, you can't take the things in a forum in a serious way...I'm not saying we shouldn't improve on that or that it's ok but I think you are going too far.

[Darklord Rooke]

Come on...you can't be serious about that, 

 

Deadly serious, actually.

[Mr Poltroon]

Let me add that this "problem" of yours isn't actually very special, Most forums I have lurked around are a LOT worse than Fuwa to the point where the forums die. Also, I think you are just feeling a bit nostalgic. Everything will change, one way or another. I'm sure some people would have heard someone there say "back in my day"....People always believe that something they like used to be good. It happens when something changes, you like how it used to be for you are used to it. Newer members like me joined when the forums were pretty much as it is now. That could be the source of the change. The stream of new members+slight change over time has added together to form quite a large change. But of course, I'm just a "newfag" and don't understand anything.

 

Also about the sexism and whatnot, yes it's bad, yes people got offended, but it isn't the worse thing in the world. Why can't people just move on after they realise everyone is repenting? This is like the damn second world war where everyone hates the Japanese people and the Germans. Why can't people in their hearts find the guts to forgive these people?This will just lead to further sadness, anger and tensions.However bad something is, people should learn to forgive. 

That's like saying that doing a bad thing isn't bad because you know people who've done it worse than you. That's not how it works.

[Deep Blue]

How can you avoid sexism even as a joke when the forum is based on vns and almost 90% of the vns out there are sexist, kinda like a paradox...

[madvanced]

I think that there is one thing that a lot of people are forgetting here. Making a joke isn't necessarily a bad thing just because you find it a bad one. By that logic any relation to dark humor would be something that should be forbidden by common sense then.

 

Finding something offensive is per the user's own values and one one can change those. The matter here is that we are putting some user's notions of what's acceptable and/or right above that of others. You may call it order, but I call it dictatorship. Who is to say that your view is better than another's? Common sense? What can you even attribute to common sense? As you can see it just goes in circles.

 

Of course we can't be without our biases, that's a given, however when something is clearly made as a joke, and you can understand that fact, the moment you try to make it out as something serious is when you are missing the point and losing your reason.

 

You say that Fuwa is a very welcoming and friendly community and I find that to be right, that's why I stuck around for as long as I did, however wanting everything to be sunshine and rainbows is pure foolishness. The brighter the light the bigger the shadow, you just can't erase some parts of anything just because you don't like them, these very acts harm the community even if you don't think that they do.

 

Fuwa was always spammy and always had it's fare share of pointless threads, with questionable senses of humor. The point is that when we are out of the groups that make those (inside) jokes, we feel that they are pointless and that we should do away with them, a simple conflict of opinions.

 

However taking something out of context and blowing it out of proportion, is in my subjective view(because whose views aren't subjective?), a really low blow.

 

On a last note(on this train of thought) the very fact that you say that any kind of thing out of your sense that is right is "trash" is discrimination in it's own right.


Now for something that is somewhat related, the thing about the sexism that's being thrown around. Liking a certain morphology on the gender that we feel attracted to isn't objectifying. Sure we all strive to find people in which we find their "insides" to be according to what we want to be around with, however completely dismissing the notion that we have physical preferences is abhorring.

For example I happen to like legs, now if I say(or think, if you prefer it that way) that a certain girl's legs are according to my preferences is it sexism? No, it's just a natural response on a psychological level.

 

It would be sexism if I said that every girl should be like that and that the rest are worthless. So if that isn't implied in any way, shape, or form it's not sexism.

[Darklord Rooke]

How can you avoid sexism even as a joke when the forum is based on vns and almost 90% of the vns out there are sexist, kinda like a paradox...

 

You mean how I don't beat the shit out of my fellow "Fight Club" fan? Because Fight Club is obviously about violence and therefore acting out that violence is necessary, yes?

 

You discuss the notion of sexism, you don't engage in the practice.

[Chewy]

That's like saying that doing a bad thing isn't bad because you know people who've done it worse than you. That's not how it works.

I get a feeling that people are also missing my point... I'm saying that this isn't the end of the fucking world. That's what some people are making it seem like. Yes its bad. Yes its pretty fucking bad. But people should calm down and think for a minute. That's more what I meant. Also are people missing the second paragraph....

[Darklord Rooke]

I think that there is one thing that a lot of people are forgetting here. Making a joke isn't necessarily a bad thing just because you find it a bad one. By that logic any relation to dark humor would be something that should be forbidden by common sense then.

 

[Deep Blue]

You mean how I don't beat the shit out of my fellow "Fight Club" fan? Because Fight Club is obviously about violence and therefore acting out that violence is necessary, yes?

 

You discuss the notion of sexism, you don't engage in the practice.

[Kurisu-Chan]

WHen it's constant, constant jokes about sexism, its not funny anymore.

 

Let's say, you live in a town, where everyday, everyday, with no stop, townsmen do jokes about your Origins, sometimes very harsh jokes, do you really think you'll find it as funny as at the first day?

 

Dark humour is hard to use, because you have to target everyone, if you target only a category of citizens, it's not Humour, it's discrimination, it's racism. 

[Darklord Rooke]

WHen it's constant, constant jokes about sexism, its not funny anymore.

 

Let's say, you live in a town, where everyday, everyday, with no stop, townsmen do jokes about your Origins, sometimes very harsh jokes, do you really think you'll find it as funny as at the first day?

 

Dark humour is hard to use, because you have to target everyone, if you target only a category of citizens, it's not Humour, it's discrimination, it's racism. 

 

Your point will probably be ignored, because it interferes with people's "fun"

[Mr Poltroon]

I get a feeling that people are also missing my point... I'm saying that this isn't the end of the fucking world. That's what some people are making it seem like. Yes its bad. Yes its pretty fucking bad. But people should calm down and think for a minute. That's more what I meant. Also are people missing the second paragraph....

Shall we then let it rest and sit on our arses instead of getting our opinions out there?

 

A group of members are expressing their opinions on Fuwa direction and standards of posting. Unfortunately it does not work in such a way that people can remain calm at all times. Telling people to calm down while this is going on is a waste of breath.

For example, I am discontent about this kind of threads being out there and so I complain about it. On the other hand, some members defend them using 'oppression' as a justification, and while we argue our cases, a middle term is probably what Tay and/or the mods are striving for. Otherwise they also have an established opinion and until we hear from our Lord almighty, the only thing we can due is attempt to convince them through discussion.

I'm not here to take stabs at other members views as much as I am trying to make mine known or discrediting others from my point of view.

 

This all said, I take issue with the content/amount of joke/immature/troll threads there have been on the coliseum of chatter. This because of my personal view and because I believe it just brings out a terrible, unnecessary image. Since there's a thread to discuss this in, here I am. *bows*

 

Also about the sexism and whatnot, yes it's bad, yes people got offended, but it isn't the worse thing in the world. Why can't people just move on after they realise everyone is repenting? This is like the damn second world war where everyone hates the Japanese people and the Germans. Why can't people in their hearts find the guts to forgive these people?This will just lead to further sadness, anger and tensions.However bad something is, people should learn to forgive. 

If this is what's happening them my bias is clearly clouding my judgement. I have nothing against those who did these things, I just don't want it to happen again.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Tiagofvarela