My thoughts on "Ideas of Fuwanovel"

[Joyjason]

Hey guys, Joyjason here.

I know this is my second post, (first being the introduction post), but if I can get the attention of people people like Aaeru, I'd really appreciate it. I promise that this won't take long. *holds crossed fingers behind back*

While reading the "3 Ideas of Fuwanovel" that Aaeru wrote up, I couldn't help but nod my head in agreement at many parts. People are just really anal about their works. I mean, if I composed a piece of music or wrote a story, I'd first try to get people to listen to it by distributing it! People who try to do all this and attempt to make money are just plain stupid with nothing better to do. (Go get a college degree or something =_=)

But I had to disagree with some of Aaeru's thoughts. EVERYTHING is public domain? People should be allowed to simply take something in exchange for nothing? I apologize if I am wrong with this analysis, but it seems that Aaeru is being a little overboard with these statements, and I find that it will really insult a lot of the fan-translation groups.

While I do agree that some things are just meant to be shared, that's a process where the author respects and trusts that the audience is integral enough to use it properly, for their own private use, and not to try making money off of it. In return, shouldn't we stand up to those expectations and do something about it? I don't mean that you should donate or even sponsor them in any way: a simple "thank you" is enough. Just the evidence that you appreciate their effort, and put value in it by sacrificing probably 30 seconds of your life.

For me, if I like a game enough, I buy it. I know it's illegal to export it from Japan in some cases, but who cares about laws? I'm supporting them in the end, so everyone's happy.

I don't know about any other groups, but the main reason why I don't do fan-translations (even in my free time) is that people don't appreciate it. All they do is take the translations I've done, fap to the storyline, and throw it away when they're done. Now, even if 10% of the people who take my works thanked me, I'd continue creating such translations and works, but all I get from them are comments about how horrible I did, or demanding that I make this or that.

Really, people?

I trust that people in this community isn't like this, but I just had to put this out there, since there's a freaking reason why Visual Novels cost money or have protection against piracy. There's a freaking reason why translation groups want players to download patches from their own websites (They only get credit in the staff role, probably, which 90%+ of the players skip or don't care about).

tl;dr? Stuff should be shared, but if you're the person who's getting the "shared property", at least be thankful that you're getting it.

I don't know about other translation groups, but the above is the #1 reason why I left translations and uploading in general.

Shouldn't we all treat everyone, especially to the ones who are localizing visual novels for our benefit, with great respect?

-- Joyjason

[harry_kinomoto]

Gonna take the liberty to reply to this before Aaeru does. I'm no legal person, let alone a copyright law expert; but I'd like to give my 2 cents on this.

For starters, I think the grand design for Fuwanovel isn't *just* for it as being a pirate site. Rather, I think its primary aim for existing is to get precisely what you want: greater recognition for the producers by distributing their works to a wider audience. In so doing, the number of appreciative people will increase, and, hopefully, so too will the credit the original authors and translators receive for their work.

In fact, I think 2 of her eventual aims is:

• to set-up a button that allows donations direct to the VN creators.
  
• to fund a VN translation project with crowd-sourced donations alone.
  

tl;dr: I think at the end of the day, the aims of yourself and her both align.

*****

I don't know about any other groups, but the main reason why I don't do fan-translations (even in my free time) is that people don't appreciate it. All they do is take the translations I've done, fap to the storyline, and throw it away when they're done. Now, even if 10% of the people who take my works thanked me, I'd continue creating such translations and works, but all I get from them are comments about how horrible I did, or demanding that I make this or that.

I'm sorry you feel that way, I really am. Because you see, that sorta used to be me.

I fancy myself a bit of an Artist too. Unfortunately, the recognition and impact I gained with my works was hardly a drop in the ocean. I struggled with ideas of how inconsequential my actions were being. Whether or not that was just the nature of the audience or because my works were just that bad, I don't really know. However, I soon learnt that such thoughts are not worth my consideration.

The nature of your audience is not something you as an artist or producer can control. What you can control, however, is the reason for which you create.

My priorities remain unchanged in that I still want to get the message behind my works out to as wide an audience as possible. The why, however, is now slightly different: it's now just simply because I think the message is just that awesome.

And at the end of the day, nothing else matters. I shall keep on banging on my drum, making as much noise on as many things as I feel should be made noise about. And though I know that in time to come I will take my place in history as someone else who came and was forgotten, I remain convinced that trying and failing to spread the message of my work would be a far lesser injustice against it than not trying to spread it at all.

Oh also, one more thing: you should probably be aware that the only reason I and a lot of us are here, is because we were inspired to action by a VN that others cared enough about to translate.

Be who you are and say what you feel

because those who mind don't matter

and those who matter don't mind.

~Dr Seuss

[dfallengod]

sigh...^^ expected as much but earlier than expected, I thought I will take some time to someone will react...

Young one, you efforts is good but this will not be suffice to persuade aaeru.

She is a straight forward and knows that her actions are correct.

If my guess will be correct when the time aaeru read this. She will elaborate about the wrong things about copyright.

and a long pointless argument will follow.....

Thus she maybe right but it doesn't mean your wrong.

your point of view is correct but doesn't mean aaerus point of view is wrong.

this world is imperfect from the start..You will not expect everything is perfect but thus it make it unique.

I, who played alot of galges and game and etc know to why aaeru pursue this kind of path.

Well why not let her be. We can't expect what might happen in the future because there are infinite possibilities in life.

I for know what are the negatives and positives of fuwanovel, thus I will only only watch and help in the times of need.

P.S. probabaly gonna lock this topic up sooner or later before things heated up ^^

LOL

[Guest]

Hey Joyjason thx for the analysis

im a bit confused what do you mean?

Public domain doesn't mean that the translators get no recognition. As soon as youve translated or authored something, your name is stuck to it - whether you like it or not - . The translator has the right to either take authorship credit, or relinquish authorship credit, just like how the girls who translated Starry Sky - they relinquished it. No one knows who they are. Public Domain merely means that, Just as youve translated without official permission, so you dont prevent (or indignify) other people from changing your work without official permission... so that you don't contradict yourself.

In fact copyright has got nothing to do with attribution. I can sell my copyright, but Im still the author of that piece of work. And credit should go to me as the author, not the guy who holds the copyright. Relinquishing copyright doesn't mean relinquishing authorship.

Young one, you efforts is good but this will not be suffice to persuade aaeru.

Aaeru is a nut. she cannot possibly change her mind. She so did not go from piracy site -> to non-piracy site -> then back to piracy site. She will never change her position.

If someone has a better idea and they 1up my ideas, then lets use them! Im honestly not interested in using a crap idea if a better idea exists out there. That will be really screwed up. The people who don't do this and who hold steadfast to their e-peen (ego) are the ones who are bizarre to me.

[Bolverk]

Public domain is what it is, Aaeru is correct in how it is.

People can be nice and they can also be an ass, though one thing I would recommend to anyone doing selflessness for someone else. Dont expect something in return, because the likelyhood of you getting it is very low. Most long term translators seem to be like this, they don't do it for anyone else.

I would note it's different if its personal to the receiver, if I gave you a gift in person you would likely say: "thank you". Random dude on the interweb, doing something for someone else.. Not likely. It is just how human relations are. But people are likely to be greatful in their own way, even if they don't communicate it. Because we don't feel a need to communicate it, because I don't know you and I have no relations with you. Therefore I don't need to say my thanks to you.

Well for those who didn't read my confusing post: Humans are just apes in the end.

[Saber]

In regards to the idea of fuwanovel, I am all up for it. The ideas behind sahring and spreading the recognition is actually great, even though most would label it as piracy. I am speaking from personal experience, but my first VN was Fate/Stay Night that I downloaded off the net. I was so amazed at this type of game, I bought the original version online. Up until now, I still buy visual novels that in my opinion deserve to be bought, and this is all thanks to that very first VN that I play.

Now in regards to what joyjason is saying, I can see how some people doesn't appreciate fan-translation groups because they may be deemed "pirating" but I believe that most people that actually give a damn about visual novels localization welcome this notion of fan-translation.

I think that the official localize companies like JAST are definitely appreciated. I for one definitely appreciate them translating these visual novels.

Just like Aaeru said, having a copyright doesn't necessarily mean you're the one that created it

[Guest Cybersteel]

Note that trademark laws and copyright laws are different so don't confuse between them.

[Bolverk]

Personally I wish I could just have a donate button for the studios I like, Key, Liar, Age, etc. Not to the publishers to the creators! I'll continue to download Vn's as normally from pirate sites and all is just jolly good.

Saves us from the, paying etc companies and just a small amount goes to the creators, wait years for releases by stalling companies. Censoring, need to be careful with releaes in the west the list goes on and on.. I just want to play the game and support the creator if the game is good.

[Joyjason]

Hello fellow Fuwanovel members,

I apologize deeply for not replying sooner. I somewhat forgot because of exam week x.x;;

As I read your valuable replies, I notice that you are indeed, unlike some of the members in VNDB.

Some agree with my comments, some do not, but I've also learned your thoughts on "piracy" and "fan-translations" etc...

Most of my theory stems from this: In America, (or at least the English-speaking communities) there are many people who have played English-translated Novels. However, as a part of that community, I've sensed that I was greatly looked-down upon, mainly because they thought they were the best at VNs.

harry_kinomoto hit the jackpot. In the end, all I'm doing as a review-writer is trying to spread the world of Visual Novels, just like the goal of Fuwanovel. We all know that VNs are horribly underrated, and do our best to publicize it. For me, such action is through reviews. For Aaeru, it's by re-blogging.

@Aaeru, yes, you are correct on that field. I think it's best if I gave you an example to represent my point.

On this certain MMORPG, the game client didn't allow East Asian Language to be used, even when a great number of the game population was East Asian. Therefore, I found a way to modify the game client so that players can talk in Korean, Japanese, and Chinese if desired.

After I uploaded the instructions for that modification, all I got was flames or rants about how modification was illegal and against the Terms of Service. Of course, I took down the instructions almost immediately.

However, I found that many people who have flamed me had downloaded the modification and used it themselves, even when they were the ones who told me it was illegal!!

In this sense, it's like rubbing salt on the wound. Not a matter of even getting an "electronic thank-you" from the receiver.

Translations take a lot of effort (hacking) and time (translating) and review (checking), so getting nothing from investing all that, in my opinion, is not worth it.

@Bolverk, I understand your post completely, but if I follow your logic, since I'm not related to that person, I don't need to give two craps about it if the other person can't read a VN, and I don't think this is what a community (especially this one) should be like. In the end, my argument is that if everyone was respectful to each other, the world wouldn't have wars.

Thank you very much, everyone, for your considerate and thought-provoking replies. I hope to be able to express myself freely in this community.