BookwormOtaku Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Still looking forward to assault-free (verbal, physical) responses. Interested to hear your takes on the question : P Darklord Rooke and Rose 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shikomizue Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 First, I would explain to him the differences between books and VNs. In VNs, you can actually see and hear the scene that you're reading being played out (to an extent), plus, depending on the novel, you can make choices that will have an impact on the story. Then, I would explain to him my feelings about visual novels, and how other people feel about them. They're not just porn, they're stories that the creators have put their heart and soul into making, just like any other book or comic. And if that dosen't work I could always just use my mind control device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalor Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Around 30 years ago anime was extremely niche, and hardly know about in the western world. Few had fan subs, and most anime was virtually Japanese exclusive (this was Ryoji's day). Now you look at anime and virtually anybody age 20 or younger has at least watched an anime (even if it's just DBZ, Pokemon or Naruto). VN's have a huge potential as an art form, and will eventually become popular. And believe me, when they do become popular (may not happen for another 20-40 years btw) it will suck for people like us who have been around when they were obscure. So my advice, enjoy the obscurity while it lasts. ;D I prefer a niche community filled with people who are deeply passionate about their hobby (fuwanovel), then a huge community with a bunch of casuals (the contemporary anime community). If I had to respond to that person though (and I've been in that situation before), I would emphasize how VNs are a new and in some ways an "experimental" art form. Honestly, when dealing with these people the more pretentious you sound the better. In these conversations I always either bring up Narcissu, because 1) it is sort of avant garde, and 2) it has no sex scenes which invalidates their accusations. Or I bring up Swan Song or Saya no Uta (two VNs where the sex/rape scenes actually serve to develop characters) and compare it to popular contemporary fiction like Game of Thrones or something. Because honestly, it's not that different. People have no problem with sex and rape in Game of Thrones (neither in the books or the TV series) but for some inexplicable reason they can't stand 2d sex scenes? Also emphasize how if somebody were looking for porn, no sane person would read through a 30+ hour story just for a handful of sex scenes. arakura 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 If someone is already objecting to porniness just by looking at a picture of a fully clothed anime woman, bringing up Saya no Uta is not going to go well. Even if you manage to somewhat justify it by saying "it's like Game of Thrones" and they seemingly accept that, they'll still be skeptical and think you're weird. And it's not like game of thrones, because game of thrones isn't explicit and pornographic. you don't have closeups of penetration and 10-minute-long scenes full of every last detail. But I guess if you lie to them and tell them it's like game of thrones, it's more palatable. Just hope they never investigate further and find out it's actual literal pornography. If you want to convince someone who is down on the concept of visual novels, don't even bring up the porn. Don't even mention games with it. Talk about Little Busters as a rousing tale of youth and friendship, or Steins;Gate as a compelling sci-fi thriller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I'd just introduce the guy to Steve and never have to deal with him again. Funyarinpa, Tenkuru, Rose and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Pretty much what Rooke said. Highlight only the few most obvious reasons and that's it. The visual novel she comes from is actually longer than the Lord of the Rings trilogy, believe it or not It is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I believe it, F/SN is really long. Most 50+ hour VNs are longer than the LOTR trilogy. I believe the last GRRM novel was longer than the entire trilogy, too, each book was only a few hundred pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astro Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Paste Kim Kardashian's face onto Saber's body and ask him if he thinks it looks porny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalor Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 If someone is already objecting to porniness just by looking at a picture of a fully clothed anime woman, bringing up Saya no Uta is not going to go well. Even if you manage to somewhat justify it by saying "it's like Game of Thrones" and they seemingly accept that, they'll still be skeptical and think you're weird. And it's not like game of thrones, because game of thrones isn't explicit and pornographic. you don't have closeups of penetration and 10-minute-long scenes full of every last detail. But I guess if you lie to them and tell them it's like game of thrones, it's more palatable. Just hope they never investigate further and find out it's actual literal pornography. If you want to convince someone who is down on the concept of visual novels, don't even bring up the porn. Don't even mention games with it. Talk about Little Busters as a rousing tale of youth and friendship, or Steins;Gate as a compelling sci-fi thriller. That's why I said I would discuss either Narcissu or Swan Song/Saya. The way I choose the direction of the conversation to go all depends on the vibe I get from the person. If they are slightly (and seemingly genuinely) open minded you could bring up Swan Song. If not, then stick with Narcissu. I wouldn't go with something like Little Busters (or anything KEY) because that represents the standard of the VN industry. You need something that back ups your argument that this is a new "art form". I wasn't kidding about the more pretentious you sound the better. If you present your interest in VNs as an intellectual one, they are more likely to become genuinely interested in them. If you leave your argument as "They're cool and I like them", they won't care. At least that's my experience when dealing with these situations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I believe it, F/SN is really long. Most 50+ hour VNs are longer than the LOTR trilogy. I believe the last GRRM novel was longer than the entire trilogy, too, each book was only a few hundred pages. Yeah, LOTR isn't that long - Lord of the Rings - J. R. R. Tolkien The Fellowship of the Ring: 187kThe Two Towers: 155kThe Return of the King: 131kTotal: 473kWheel of Time - Robert JordanThe Eye of the World: 305kThe Great Hunt: 267kThe Dragon Reborn: 251kThe Shadow Rising: 393kThe Fires of Heaven: 354kLord of Chaos: 389kA Crown of Swords: 295kThe Path of Daggers: 226kWinter's Heart: 238kCrossroads of Twilight: 271kKnife of Dreams: 315kTotal: 3M 304k (official count)Stormlight Archives - Brandon SandersonThe Way of Kings: 387k (official count)A Song of Ice And Fire - George R. R. MartinA Game of Thrones: 284kA Clash of kings: 326kA Storm of Swords: 404kA Feast for Crows: 300kTotal: 1M 314kMalazan Book of the Fallen - Steven EriksonGardens of the Moon: 209kDeadhouse Gates: 272kMemories of Ice: 358kHouse of Chains: 306kMidnight Tides: 270kThe Bonehunters: 365kReaper's Gale: 386kToll the Hounds: 392kDust of Dreams: 382kThe Crippled God: 385kTotal: 3M 325kThe Dark Tower - Stephen KingThe Gunslinger: 55kThe Drawing of the Three: 128kThe Waste Lands: 178kWizard and Glass: 264kWolves of the Calla: 251kSong of Susannah: 131kThe Dark Tower: 288kTotal: 1M 295k http://fantasy-faction.com/forum/fantasy-book-discussion/word-counts-of-epic-fantasy-novels/ In comparison, Clannad has... what, a million english words? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Because turning pages requires two hands ◔‿◔ Said like a true millennial. "What's a porn mag? Can you torrent it?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Said like a true millennial. "What's a porn mag? Can you torrent it?" Millennial: "Wait, people pay for porn? Since when?" If I were you, Tay, I'd write out the most boring speech possible and bore the living hell out of him. Either that or go on and on and on about how much you love lolis until he runs away. Either of the two should work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I would have cut off the conversation the moment he said 'porny'. BookwormOtaku 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heizei_koukousei Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 "My good sir, how dare you insinuate such things." "I shall abstain from fisticuffs... This time." Or something like that Gibberish and BookwormOtaku 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Excuse you, there are a total of 328 pages of VNs on VNDB, and 54 pages if you filter by "No sexual content". Thus, only 83.5% of VNs are pornographic. For fun, I did a little experiment. I created a list of all VN releases on VNDB with the following filters: Japanese language, originally Japanese language, Windows platform https://vndb.org/r?q=;fil=lang-ja.olang-ja.plat-win;o=d;s=released Then I counted all VNs released 2/15/15-3/19/15 (I intended to count 1 month but accidentally counted 1 month + 4 days instead). I repeated for the subset of those VNs that weren't 18+. My results: All VN releases: 150 Non 18+ releases: 11 (7.3%) I'll therefore continue to use my 90% number as a good ballpark estimate of Japanese excellence in perverted entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerathim Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 "Well I don't know, I may be a lost cause to like porny cartoons. Fortunately you're here for me, wanna lend me your fifty shades of grey ?" Then I would have probably become an intellectual. Instead of spending my nights searching for CG set on hentai sites I'd be in a glorious lounge, wearing a bathrob in a rocking chair, smoking my pipe (with jazz coming out of a jukebox of course). Current subject : How transformers relates to Kant's categorical imperative ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverLi Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I would ask him if he watches Family Guy, American Dad, Adventure Time or whatever comes to my mind and ask him if he think that's porn too because they are animated (his logic). Even better examples would be animated stories of something but I lack examples. But yes I would't deny most of them are with sexual contents. But yes VN:s aren't for anyone and if the first thing they see is hentai porn they are a lost cause no matter what. Japan is a lot more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 My reaction. Stray Cat and Shoon-kami 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowtsuku Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I get to choose my ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalRen Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I think the fact you used the word heathen in a spoken sentence says a lot about this story. Nimbus and Tay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosakyun Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Would've said that there's more to it besides the porn, but I like my mamarries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnoob Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I'd just introduce the guy to Steve and never have to deal with him again. One step at a time. We're supposed to make him like visual novels not turn into a lolicon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolverk Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Honestly I'd just cut him off there or shrug it off, change the topic. He honestly only showed interest in confirming his own views. But if I actually thought it was worth trying.. My response would be something around expanding on why I like vn's. Me: "I prefer the combination of the anime way of telling stories and the novel media." If he does show some interest, I'd expand it with examples of western movies and books. Compare them to anime and vn's. Honestly in the first place if I was Tay I'd hide my powerlevel lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyrt Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Honestly if you know anything about the person you can fire back at them but if you don't it might be a little tougher. Option 1: Explain how people view different things with various degrees of eroticism because that is what their subconscious is perceiving. Basically they are only seeing the characters and visual novels as porny because that is what they wish to see. Option 2: Explain that visual novels are no different from many movies/tv shows/books in that it tells a great story and sometimes this includes showing a sex scene. Ask them if they've ever watched a movie, tv show, or sex scene in it and explain that visual novels sometimes but not always have content added to it for the same reason it does in any mainstream medium. Option 3: Tell them to not judge or discuss the topic with you until they actually bother to try one, as anything said without experiencing a vn for oneself is pure biased prejudice based on misconception. Option 4: consider him a loss cause unless he seems to have a legitimate interest. Sometimes people say that they think anime is porny because they are trying to hide their interest. Option 5: show them fate/zero or human crossing to try and defeat the misconception they have of anime being porny. Option 6: Explain to them that you prefer to read works that are slightly different from the average and visual novels are good because they allow a greater connection/understanding of the characters because they often have loads of character development (in the good ones). Option 7: Ask why read books or comics when you could just watch movies or tv or go outside etc...that's kinda a dumb response from them why not just read comics/books. Because you like the medium of visual novels no other answer needed. Option 8: Ignore them. Continue on with your life not everyone is going to be on the same page. Option 9: Admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewycool Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Show him real Hentai. Then show him Saber and ask again if he still thinks its porn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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