sanahtlig Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Kusoge is a derogatory term. Watch the anime "The World God Only Knows" with Japanese voices. Keima explains the term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakamutt Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Would you infer that "shit game" is a genre due to "Role Playing Game" being one? let's not get into religious wars about the terms to use before the latter Tyrael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodai Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I find the art style better than a few amateur doujin in the medium. (Yes, I think 7th Expansion art is horrid. fite me) At least in Sakura Spirit they match the aesthetic properly. No, TBH most of the original art is quite difficult to look at. You could probably get used to it if you tried hard enough but it's easier to just use the console port sprites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabloc Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Can someone explain to me what a kusoge actually is? Wikipedia defines it quite literally as a "shit game" or a game with bad reception. What I'm confused about is that most -ge are used as a descriptor for a genre. Does this mean that Sakkura Spirits was intentionally meant to fall into that genre, or is kusoge just a derogatory term meant to describe it as shit. The way Clephas used it makes it seem like a genre. The name itself is indeed similar to such genre names like Nukige, Moege etc., but it's just a term for shitty games, as simple as that. And yeah, it fits Sakura series perfectly. I don't understand why all the hate for this vns...yeah they are bad, repetitives, without plot, etc. But you got so many nukige, moege, etc vns that it doesn't make sense to focus just on this particular vn Just take a look https://vndb.org/g214?fil=tagspoil-0.tag_inc-214;m=0;o=d;s=rel Let's leave moeges out of this, even the worst titles from that genre are literary masterpieces compared to Sakura stuff (well, at least the first title, I only skimmed over that one). And nukiges = porn. They aren't even supposed to have decent storylines by definition, they are meant to be plotless pornfests (though I must say that the majority of nukiges that I have read had significantly better writing than Sakura Spirit...). Sakura Stuff isn't porn. Hence it's available to a much wider audience than your average nukige. And to make matters worse, it's an audience that doesn't know anything about VNs (aside from the common "weird anime hentai game" stereotype). That's why it annoys so many VN fans - it shows newcomers the entire medium from the stupidest possible side (nukiges at least have porn...). I can see why the series is so popular though. It seems there is a high demand for crude porn that is sold as not-porn. That 50 Shades of Gray thingy and other similar book-like-objects sell absurdly well, too. People just want porn, but they are too "prude" to get real deal stuff, so they choose such idiotic substitutes instead. sanahtlig 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuki Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I can see why the series is so popular though. It seems there is a high demand for crude porn that is sold as not-porn. That 50 Shades of Gray thingy and other similar book-like-objects sell absurdly well, too. People just want porn, but they are too "prude" to get real deal stuff, so they choose such idiotic substitutes instead. People mostly buy it for the art and the boobs after all. Story also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I find the art style better than a few amateur doujin in the medium. (Yes, I think 7th Expansion art is horrid. fite me) At least in Sakura Spirit they match the aesthetic properly. The guy who does the backgrounds and Gui for the Sakura games is one of the most sought after artists in the OELVN industry. He's quick, reliable, and so very damn good. Everybody wishes they could afford him. http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=29801 Tay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 *Sigh* Well, if someone gifted it to me I would write an entertaining and detailed writing critique and stick it on Fuwa's incredibly useful bloggy thing. I don't see why people would be interested in torturing me like that reading such a thing though... I've decided to fund this from my personal treasury. I gleefully await the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 It is kind of sad that they didn't bother to purchase the services of a good writer for Sakura Spirit... I think Michelle Sagara West would have been best, as her Kaylin Neya series has a very similar aura to the kind of style you see in the best VNs. For that matter, her Sun Sword series has a similar vibe of 'talking by implication' and 'narration by emotion as well as action' that are two of the aspects that characterize the best non-nukige, non-moege VNs. She implies as much as she says, which is immensely frustrating for someone not used to reading in between the lines, the way Japanese writers want you to, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Considering they sold so well with only art and boobs, they probably thought a writer wouldn’t bring in enough new customers to justify the cost I've decided to fund this from my personal treasury. I gleefully await the result. This is VERY interesting, I’m gonna download an earlier version and highlight some comparisons. They're WELL worth highlighting. They’ve ironed out quite a few of the sentence structure issues, unfortunately they couldn’t touch the story and it looks like they haven’t fiddled with the style, but judging from the opening scene your brain no longer wants to explode reading it. It’s MUCH different to the earlier versions, Sekai must have leapt on them hard. BUT I promised an in-depth critique and that’s what you guys will be getting. I’ll just be spending a little longer talking about styles, story, and improvements they made, and a little less time ripping apart their sentences (that'll still be there, just not as much ) I promise to make it entertaining as well. Here’s something though, the prose in Sakura Spirit (as it stands today) looks much better than the prose currently in the demo version of Princess Evangile. Obviously I haven’t played a lot of either game, and that’s not taking style and story into consideration - just the state of the prose. But it’s an indication both how much they've improved, and the horrid current state of Evangile (I’ll be writing a review of that game, so it better improve or I’ll be annoyed.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 You often talk about writing style so I'm pretty curious to know what you consider 'good' writing. We often talk about trivially bad prose where it's easy to point out what fails (everything) but I kinda wonder what's your idea of a good vs really good vs meh prose. Looking forward to that I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Here’s something though, the prose in Sakura Spirit (as it stands today) looks much better than the prose currently in the demo version of Princess Evangile. Obviously I haven’t played a lot of either game, and that’s not taking style and story into consideration - just the state of the prose. But it’s an indication both how much they've improved, and the horrid current state of Evangile (I’ll be writing a review of that game, so it better improve or I’ll be annoyed.) I'm going to quote this in that Mangagamer thread. The inner troll in me is giggling with glee. You don't disappoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 You often talk about writing style so I'm pretty curious to know what you consider 'good' writing. We often talk about trivially bad prose where it's easy to point out what fails (everything) but I kinda wonder what's your idea of a good vs really good vs meh prose. Looking forward to that I guess. Well, my initial impressions of the first... 20 lines or so are thus. I should note these are very shaky, they're just initial impressions. Writer states conclusions, not describe actions, which fails to produce an image and fails to get across a sense of time passing to the reader. This is a VERY common problem, and will affect the writer's ability to produce an image and manipulate pacing. Anybody can write engaging dialogue, you earn your writer stripes by writing engaging prose. Pointless info dump Opening scene may have no purpose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kratoscar2008 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Im glad that there is another, i totally love to got to vn, reddit and here on fuwa to see the overreactions about this series. I doubt this hurts VNs considering they need all the publicity they can get. I dont see the problem with no H considering games like Senran Kagura sells on ecchi alone (Pls dont lie and say you are in for the gameplay) just like other games. I hope they dont stop making them because there are the steam reviews as well wich some jewels here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The problem i have with this is that it's both an insult to writing as it is an insult to porn. There is literally no redeeming value. This is crap even as fanservice pandering. If you want to be just porn, then be just porn, don't be.. whatever the hell this is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kratoscar2008 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The problem i have with this is that it's both an insult to writing as it is an insult to porn. There is literally no redeeming value. This is crap even as fanservice pandering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I never said i wanted nudity, but this game fails at being sexy in any way, shape, or form. But i guess for the Steam demographic just a big clevage is good enough. Good fanservice is not just big boobs, good fanservice requires proper circumstances, build up and i'd say character as well. There's a lot of things that can make something erotic if you just pay attention to detail. Sakura whatever only gives you awful characters and then poorly attempts to shove their boobs in your face and expects you to fap to it somehow. If i wanted to just look at hentai art i have tons and tons of galleries with superior stuff for it. An eroge would attempt to elevate it, however. But Sakura whatever only downgrades it. So yeah this whole thing is a game with an identity crisis that can neither be a good story nor good porn. Trully a kusoge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kratoscar2008 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I never said i wanted nudity, but this game fails at being sexy in any way, shape, or form. But i guess for the Steam demographic just a big clevage is good enough. Good fanservice is not just big boobs, good fanservice requires proper circumstances, build up and i'd say character as well. There's a lot of things that can make something erotic if you just pay attention to detail. Sakura whatever only gives you awful characters and then poorly attempts to shove their boobs in your face and expects you to fap to it somehow. If i wanted to just look at hentai art i have tons and tons of galleries with superior stuff for it. An eroge would attempt to elevate it, however. But Sakura whatever only downgrades it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I'm not trying to define fanservice, i am however trying to explain why Sakura whatever has awful fanservice and is a joke in terms of fanservice. As someone that has spent countless hours on hentai, there is a bare minimum as to what i can call good fanservice. But even so my standards are awfully low. However, shitty characters showing their boobs doesn't fit that definition, unfortunately. Fanservice in Ikkitousen is disgustingly awful and it's probably the best to describe the one used in the Sakura series. Awful context, no nudity, and just cringeworthy scenes overall. Good fanservice would make me excited in some way. Maybe because i like the characters, maybe because the characters are cute, or maybe just because the circumstances it's happening in call for it. But this game just makes me want to commit suicide. If you truly can feel pleasure from looking at half assed characters with exaggerated clevages, props to you. For me however, that's just not good enough to even be called erotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugi Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Good fanservice would make me excited in some way. Maybe because i like the characters, maybe because the characters are cute, or maybe just because the circumstances it's happening in call for it. But this game just makes me want to commit suicide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinalChaos Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The problem i have with this is that it's both an insult to writing as it is an insult to porn. There is literally no redeeming value. This is crap even as fanservice pandering. If you want to be just porn, then be just porn, don't be.. whatever the hell this is. I totally agree ............ though I haven't played it. For me it was like ....... see the art-style .......... notice those emphasised boobs and how everything seems porn-ish .............. deduce it's a borderline nukige (high/early sex content) .......... see the tag no-sexual-content .......... lose all hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kratoscar2008 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Well tengu tenge was the "mother" of fanservice and its similar to Ikkitousen. I guess that people react to different fanservice types, there is definitely a lot of people who think of Sakura games as good fanservice. But you seem to see fanservice from a porn POV while i see it from a game POV (Mean console fanservice) wich is quite less sexy for those into a medium full of nudity i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famichip Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Winged Cloud's response to someone asking about an adult version for the Sakura series:In the end this decision is made by steam more then us. If they would be so tolerant to allow patches for adult versions we would be more then happy to make it.However at this point its still unknown and without steams approval its nearly impossible to sell the game to a larger audience which is needed to cover the production costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuki Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Adult version... Seem like they still want to gather more rock, huh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vokoca Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 So it's not just the writing that's complete shit, but even their posts lack any sort of correct grammar and spelling? 10/10 representation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolverk Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 10/10 found two nekomimi girls in a box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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