VN scores detracting from enjoyment?

[Vokoca]

After repeatedly fighting with my own vndb list and fiddling with the scores more than I should've, a question crossed my mind. Are VN scores detracting from their enjoyment?

 

Have you ever felt like that the scores you gave VNs before don't apply anymore relative to the new stuff you've read? Maybe there was a VN you thought was absolutely amazing at the time, but now you read one that feels even better... what do you do with the score then? In the first place, how do the criteria even work? Is it even fair to review VNs across so many genres, all of which rely on different qualities?

 

There also were times where I was thinking of the final score I would give a VN once I finish it, which also lead to me subconsciously looking for bad things by which I could push the score down a bit, to keep it as fair and objective as possible. Maybe I'm just crazy, but surely you've sometimes thought about rating the VN while reading too, right?

 

So to come back to the first question, do you think that review scores can take away from your enjoyment of VNs? Do you have any examples of this happening, or do you think that the numbering system is perfectly fine?

[Nosebleed]

I believe that after you play a certain amount you do kind of get the feeling stuff you played before becomes less enjoyable.

 

A perfect example for me is Little Busters.

I remembering loving it, it was my first VN ever.

But after discussing it with people and seeing reviews, I kind of started having a lot of problems with it (not to say I hate it, but there's definitely things bugging me now that didn't use to bug me).

 

A raw score by itself doesn't usually influence me (I enjoy stuff with an overall rating of 5/10 or even lower, nothing wrong with it), but reviews and seeing other people talk about it (usually in a negative way) sometimes affects my perception and enjoyment of certain things. I think it's a natural thing to feel, though, when your opinion is the more unpopular one and you subconsciously change your standards sometimes so you don't get casted out. Or maybe it's just me being weird. 

[Darklord Rooke]

Scores are there for people who can't be arsed to read actual impressions on the game, and to be frank who cares about them

 

Numbering systems are stupid, and inaccurate. Your prejudices and preferences weight these things (which is why top animes are all shounen crap  , which may apply to VNs also) your experience weight these things, your philosophy on review scale affects your score, scores are relative so what you're comparing it to also affects stuff.

 

Basically the accurate stuff is in the text and scores just give a quick impression, and not a very accurate one either. It's not worth stressing out over.

[ServeTheServant]

G-Senjou was my first VN and I gave it a 10... I'm pretty sure that if I read it now I wouldn't rate it quite that highly, but that was my subjective enjoyment at the time so the score is accurate in a way.  There's no need to maintain objectivity over time unless you're regularly showing other people your scores and have to justify them -- it's there primarily for you to go back and remember how much you liked a VN.

 

I think you should just go with your gut for scores, and not worry about it so much.  You don't need to go back and modify scores, if you reread that's an opportunity to update the score.

 

Edit: Apparently I don't follow my own advice, it looks like I changed GSNM to a 9 after the fact.  Still I think too much revisionism isn't necessary, I'll follow my own words in the future.  =/

[Fiddle]

Maybe there was a VN you thought was absolutely amazing at the time, but now you read one that feels even better... what do you do with the score then?

[LinovaA]

This is actually something I can totally relate to, not just with VNs but with anime too. All my otaku interests now that I think on it.

 

I loved Mirai Nikki when I first watched it. I now despise it with a burning passion.

I loved Muv Luv Alternative when I first went through it... I still think it was an awesome experience, but I do have some conflicting feelings on it.

I loved Clannad when I first went through it.... I still love Clannad.

 

Most of my opinions are subject to change, not just because I watch or read more, but because I am getting older too. I myself am changing and my tastes will change in tandem with that. 

 

I don't think my opinions on Clannad will change though, despite any kind of flak it may get. I'll always remember the effect it had on me back then~

 

 

Edit: Just a note on ratings. I may rate things, but I feel ratings aren't really worth a damn without comments on why they are rated that way. I don't even know why I bother rating things honestly. xD

[sanahtlig]

I generally rate VNs by my enjoyment of them when I played them, as well as how they compare to similar titles.  7 is typically the base-level for a game I expect to like.  If the game is one of the best in its class, I'll give it an 8, or if it's one of the best games I've ever played, a 9.  If the game has significant flaws that detracted from enjoyment, it gets a 6.  I gave an NTR nukige a 4 because it didn't even bother to develop the jealousy factor between sex scenes (and there were scenes that occurred with basically no context), which is the whole point of NTR.  I find I'm harder on genres I like, since I've seen so many good titles of that type, so this tends to balance out my genre bias.

 

I didn't start scoring til I'd played 50-100 VNs, so I haven't noticed any significant changes in my opinion over time.

 

When I'm comparing scores, I generally compare within genre.  For example: RPGs, NTR.

 

VNDB scores are usually only reliable for English-translated titles, so for untranslated titles I use Erogamescape.

[Bolverk]

My knownledge and experiences changes over time so my tastes changes over time as well.. Honestly scoring stuff is a flawed system. You could like use a definitive system and adjust your scoring with that. But for me that's ludicrously mechanical to do, not fitting for personal use. Ofc you should think in that line of thought if you want to review for others.

I just vote my scores how I enjoyed the vn as a whole. Most of the scores go from 7-9. Overly high I perhaps, I choose the vn's I know I'll prbly like otherwise I drop them due to being bored. In my mind, if you vote a vn 6/10. It means you are painfully bored a large amount of time or the vn is majorly flawed in your mind. Under that it feels like it's a pain to read.

 

Due to that's the way I vote my opinion change and so does my taste... Pretty much I could change multiple entries on my vndb list if I wanted to.. But it also feels wrong to change it months/years after reading the vn. Now that my feeling for the vn has cooled down. So I leave them most be.. lol. Otherwise I'd just have to keep changing the list all the time also, all that work lol.

[Eclipsed]

Read a VN. That was great! Rate an 8

Read another VN. That was great! Rate an 8.

Read another VN. That was great! Hrmmm, it's better than the two I read before, so 8.5

Read another VN. Hot damn that was awesome! Rate 9.

Now that I think about it, the first two I read were pretty eh. Nerf them to 7.

 

   

[AlexZandria]

It doesn't really get me while playing. After I've finished the entire game I'll give it a gut feeling vote based on the words by the numbers. Games that still manage to make me sick to my stomach, or depressed, or giddy after a year or so definitely get 8s or 9s. Let me put it this way, I still hear Leon's name and I start defending him and his role in Dangan Ronpa all over again. And then I die a little inside again. ;-;

[zoom909]

I have actually yet to rate anything on vndb, I'll get around to it one of these days.  Hopefully.

Probably, my apathy reflects my dislike of not only numeric scoring, but reviews and critics in general; I want synopses, screenshots, and factual descriptions.  And I don't want anyone else's bias detracting from my enjoyment (or my vexation, if it comes to that).

 

So, the only use I have for scoring on vndb is, not to influence what I play, but to check up on other members and see if they liked any of the games I liked.  Therefore, you might worry that you're off by 1 or 2 points in your scoring, but that makes no difference for the way I look at it...I just sort people's lists by score and look for the general trends...

[TexasDice]

No, but I am aware of how stupid my scores must look to other people (and eventually hurt their enjoyment, I guess). Like rating Rewrite and Imouto Paradise with the same score.

 

I had a bunch of good reasons though.  

 

I swear.

 

Don't look at me like that.

[AlexZandria]

No, but I am aware of how stupid my scores must look to other people (and eventually hurt their enjoyment, I guess). Like rating Rewrite and Imouto Paradise with the same score.

I had a bunch of good reasons though.

I swear.

Don't look at me like that.

SMH.

It's okay my wishlist is what is really out of whack. My high priority is half nukige even though I have never bought/played a nukige. After playing NTY!!! and catching the screenshots on Euphoria I literally put every VN that Shigeo Hamashima has drawn on my WL with high priority. Placing that "women find art to be most important" stereotype to work here.

[Clephas]

It helps if you understand that all translated VN ratings are inflated upwards, non-rape nukige are generally inflated slightly downwards, moege are always inflated upwards (to varying degrees, depending on a number of factors), chuunige are generally deflated downwards slightly, and story-focused VNs are all over the place (it isn't uncommon for the votes to be concentrated at the top and the bottom with story-heavy VNs)

[Abyssal Monkey]

Scores are there for people who can't be arsed to read actual impressions on the game, and to be frank who cares about them

 

Numbering systems are stupid, and inaccurate. Your prejudices and preferences weight these things (which is why top animes are all shounen crap  , which may apply to VNs also) your experience weight these things, your philosophy on review scale affects your score, scores are relative so what you're comparing it to also affects stuff.

 

Basically the accurate stuff is in the text and scores just give a quick impression, and not a very accurate one either. It's not worth stressing out over.

 

It helps if you understand that all translated VN ratings are inflated upwards, non-rape nukige are generally inflated slightly downwards, moege are always inflated upwards (to varying degrees, depending on a number of factors), chuunige are generally deflated downwards slightly, and story-focused VNs are all over the place (it isn't uncommon for the votes to be concentrated at the top and the bottom with story-heavy VNs)

 

You two have perfectly summed up my thoughts on the matter.  Scoring is basically useless, and anything translated takes a huge bias hit in the score.  On vndb I look more at popularity than scores because it tells me how many times its been played, even if it's bad.

[AlexZandria]

You two have perfectly summed up my thoughts on the matter. Scoring is basically useless, and anything translated takes a huge bias hit in the score. On vndb I look more at popularity than scores because it tells me how many times its been played, even if it's bad.

[Deep Blue]

Scores are something really subjective, katawa shoujo for example maybe doesn't deserve a 10 and if you compare it to another vn it really doesn't stand up but for me is perfect because it means a lot more than just a vn I can relate to it but I'm sure that for another people is really bad or average at best.

[Lexyvil]

I haven't played a lot of VN in total (Maybe about 7 of them), but I can see how difficult it can be when it comes to rating them.

 

Knowing how long Visual Novels can be, it's easy to get addicted to one and then become overly attached to it until completion, and I noticed that there can also be a withdrawal phase in the end that lets you ponder about the great experience.

 

After finishing a great one, you get the feeling that "It's the best one you ever played", but then after a while you realize that it might just be close or just as good as the previous games you played before, which then becomes even harder to classify them.

 

I don't know, so far I find that it can be easy to organize them from best to worst when the plots of recently played VN are still fresh in mind.

 

Our moods and tastes can change over time too, which also complicates classifications. x-x

[Zalor]

You know a work of art (VN, anime, movie, book, etc) is good if it holds up over time. My thoughts on certain VNs change over time, but I find for the truly good ones, my appreciation grows over time. In my view it is easy to enjoy most VNs the first time around, but it is hard to enjoy it a second time. If you can reread a VN, than it's good. If rereading it isn't fun/worth it, than it deserves a lower score. 

[Clephas]

Though I said above that translated VNs ratings are really inflated, in the cases of the older ones, the inflation is actually less.  Back when there were only a few hardscrabble groups working on translations, they had to seriously consider before they chose a project.  As a result, the big projects from that time tended to be the cream of the crop.

[Snowtsuku]

You know a work of art (VN, anime, movie, book, etc) is good if it holds up over time. My thoughts on certain VNs change over time, but I find for the truly good ones, my appreciation grows over time. In my view it is easy to enjoy most VNs the first time around, but it is hard to enjoy it a second time. If you can reread a VN, than it's good. If rereading it isn't fun/worth it, than it deserves a lower score. 

I agree on this one. If a VN is something you can enjoy regardless of how many times you've reread it, it deserves a good score.

Though I rarely care about the score, or other people's opinion. I don't even score the VNs i read. The main reason is because I think there are people with different taste and making them not read the VN they will love just because I did not give it a good score makes me feel bad.

[Satsuki]

I never care about score/other people review. Only my personal opinion is matter.

(that's why there are ton of  top rate mainstream VNs that I don't read)

[AlexZandria]

You know a work of art (VN, anime, movie, book, etc) is good if it holds up over time. My thoughts on certain VNs change over time, but I find for the truly good ones, my appreciation grows over time. In my view it is easy to enjoy most VNs the first time around, but it is hard to enjoy it a second time. If you can reread a VN, than it's good. If rereading it isn't fun/worth it, than it deserves a lower score. 

 

I think holding up over time is a definite consideration but I wouldn't consider re-readability to be as important. A VN can be of high quality and great enjoyability and not hold the same effect when you reread it--partly because it was the mystery and they way that mystery held up throughout the entire VN that made it good. I feel like in all types of media the Mystery genre loses a bit of its value the second go. You can still appreciate the hard work put into it and even look for clues throughout the game that would have hinted you off about what the outcome would be, but the suspense that made it such a good read isn't there the second time. It could be put together flawlessly and have a complexly weaved plot but once you know what's going on-- a lot of that charm is harder to notice.

 

I also find that VNs that aren't kinetic can be harder to truly reread. You can go back over a route to see if it fits the test of time, but you aren't going to hold the skip button over the common route 5 times if you've already finished the VN once. You're going to pick a route or two, play them, and then leave the rest unfinished. Because dedicating 60 hours to reread something after you've already reread your favorite parts of is pretty hard...

 

...Unless you're an idiot like me. I played Runefactory 3 on 4 different occasions. I finished it right after I got it the first time. I played it from the start again (assuming I hadn't finished it the first time) ~6 months later and realized that ending seemed familiar after I finished it, played it again another year later and again didn't remember I had finished it the 1st time. And then picked it up a 4th time a bit after that and played it on hard mode at which point it was so easy and I'd only remembered finishing it once until I looked at my RF3 tags on my old tumblr and realized I'd actually finished it 3 times before. OTL.

[sanahtlig]

Everyone with finite time has to choose their VNs somehow.  Directly or indirectly, you're being influenced by others' opinions unless all you do is browse VNs you've never heard of on a site that carries a large variety of VNs with no bias to any in particular.  Without the subjective opinion of others, it's quite difficult to distinguish misleading marketing of an unappealing title from a title that will genuinely interest you, especially if your experience with VNs is limited.

 

Metascores simplify the process of gauging the reaction of others.  They simplify the process of ranking VNs of a given type.  With 10,000+ VNs to choose from, a score ranking is a pretty good place to start looking for titles that might interest you.  Looking at a new brand you've never tried, a score ranking gives you an idea which title would be the best one to start with.  While a review or demo might be the tool you use to make a final decision, scores are a quick way to take a list of 10,000 and whittle it down to a few dozen that might be worth your time to investigate further.

[Nyanko]

Hm.. it doesn't necessarily ruin anything for me. I'm not the person to look at the vndb average rating and think "oh I guess it has a good score, so it must be good!". Ratings are so personal, some people have most of their ratings between 7 and 10, that would mean if they would rate something 6/10 it probably wasn't enjoyable at all in their eyes *looks at Vokoca*   while other people might not even have a single 10/10 in their list, and have a lot of 5/10 and 6/10. Obviously their 6/10 doesn't have the same meaning. Also people that didn't read too much yet have much higher ratings most of the time. 

 

For me the only way ratings can go up or down in my list is because I have no other choice. I rated my first 3 novels 10/10, when I read something better than that 10/10, what was I supposed to do besides lowering some!  I started with whole numbers ( 6/10 and 8/10) then started with 6,5 and 8.5, now I already have a few 7.8/10, just to give them a little bit more honor than the 7.5/10's, lol