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Ethics regarding localizing a licensed title


Tawm

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So, for personal use, I've recently spent a great deal of time localizing the 2011 remake of Kikokugai: The Cyber Slayer into english using the existing translation by Makoto (accuracy is still spot on, as it has an identical script, say a few lines removed from the h-scenes).

It'll be done this weekend, fully re-done and translated UI and all.

 

Seeing as JAST licensed the original game a while ago, would it be ethical to release at patch for the remake to the public?

Clearly, the original will become obsolete and screw JAST over badly as no one will want to opt for the version of the product which is inferior if there is a choice.

 

On the other hand, it doesn't look likely that JAST will ever release Kikokugai, as it is inherently broken on its original engine, and they will certainly not shell out the cash for the licensing fees for the remake.

 

They always dodge the question when they're asked anything about the game as well.

 

I'll finish it regardless of whether it's right to release it or not.

Mostly, it's something I've done because it's my all-time favorite VN.

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Some companies are willing to negotiate, and work with them to use fan translation. If you start talking about different versions of games though, and the company can't or won't localise whichever one you've worked on, then I don't think you can blamed for anything. Further I'd say it's not very fair on the English (or whatever language) audience in general, that you would actively not let them have a better experience with a more complete/newer version of a game just because the company in question can't/won't get the rights to it themselves, or simply won't talk to you about any sort of collaboration. If you've given a company enough notice of your project, sent them e-mails, and hopefully sent them some sort of script sampling at least when you get into dialogue with them, and they still don't answer or just decline, then it's certainly fair game to release in my book. I think to me it all comes down to whether you actually make any proper attempt to work with said involved localising company or not.

 

So in my opinion; release it.

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JAST certainly won't like it if you release it in any case. Whether it is unethical or will really hurt an official release from JAST is up for debate. I'd say people who won't support an official release just because there's a better unofficial release that they could pirate are the types who would have just waited for a crack of the official release anyways. 

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There may be some people who stick with the old version anyways just for the uncut h-scenes. Either way, I don't think this would make things that much worse for JAST, they'd already be competing with the old fan patch even without your efforts.

 

Ultimately, the prospects of them releasing Kikokugai are so slim that I don't see this changing things. The only thing that comes to mind that would make this matter for them is if they were planning on using Doddler to do an engine port. They recently recruited him to port Schatten to Unity, after all, maybe they were planning on Kikokugai next? But with no indication that this is actually the case, its prospects for release continues to look really poor, and a fan releasing a patch for the remake seems like an inevitable conclusion. Unethical? Maybe, but you snooze, you loose. Seems like JAST lost their chance.

 

As someone who has yet to read Kikokugai, I was following your posts on /jp/ and eagerly await this patch so I can experience the best version of the game.

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I don't think that the reason Kikokugai hasn't been released yet is that Jast is unable/unwilling to pay for it. More like that everything on nitro's end has been very slow so they haven't been able to do as many projects as they want. Hanachirasu is actually being released soon so things might be moving again. If you release your patch we'll also miss out on an even more polished translation by Makoto.

 

You probably shouldn't post it here though... I don't want to have any trouble with Jast.

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I don't think that the reason Kikokugai hasn't been released yet is that Jast is unable/unwilling to pay for it. More like that everything on nitro's end has been very slow so they haven't been able to do as many projects as they want. Hanachirasu is actually being released soon so things might be moving again. If you release your patch we'll also miss out on an even more polished translation by Makoto.

 

You probably shouldn't post it here though... I don't want to have any trouble with Jast.

No, Kikokugai is a special case that they have talked about. It has specific engine issues that they have been unable to resolve, it will not work on Windows 8. And they don't have the license for the remake. The way they talk, it seems likely that their version will never be released.

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No, Kikokugai is a special case that they have talked about. It has specific engine issues that they have been unable to resolve, it will not work on Windows 8. And they don't have the license for the remake. The way they talk, it seems likely that their version will never be released.

Yeah I know about the engine issue. I was talking about how them not being willing to pay for the remake is pure conjecture. The engine issues for the original I'm aware about.

 

Also Hanachirasu also had engine issues and I think that was the same engine as Kikokugai (it was also related to w8) and that is being released pretty soonish so they either fixed the issues or they ported it.

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No, Kikokugai is a special case that they have talked about. It has specific engine issues that they have been unable to resolve, it will not work on Windows 8. And they don't have the license for the remake. The way they talk, it seems likely that their version will never be released.

Yup, that's exactly why I took matters into my own hands.

I've been hounding them regarding Kikokugai for a long time via twitter and mail, but it seems like it just isn't happening; and if it is, they really need to give some kind of official word other than "oh, sorry, no info. :("

 

To me, it seems like they're just keeping the license hostage at this point.

 

I'm leaning towards a public release, considering the patch will require the original Japanese game installed, legit or otherwise.

If they do actually license the remake at some point, it goes without saying that they're free to utilize my groundwork without notice or credit, given that they deem it worthy.

 

What I want is to share this fantastic VN with as many people as possible in its most enjoyable state.

There will be no profit or recognition on my part, as I couldn't care less about such things.

 

May as well post a screenshot I took earlier for /jp/.

 

i8VWPjhVFkqJq.jpg

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JAST has been officially working with Nitro+ since July 2009.  The game was originally released in 2002, fan-translated in 2010, and remade in 2011.  JAST has been sitting on a finished translation for 5 years now.  Furthermore, JAST has acknowledged they have no plans to work on the game.

 

I highly doubt JAST will begrudge you releasing your patch at this point.  With this game, JAST is stuck between a rock and a hard place.  They can't release the original because it's not compatible with new operating systems.  They're unlikely to release the remake because releasing only the all-ages version would tarnish their reputation as an adult publisher.  Porting the original to the new engine wouldn't be worth the effort because it's already been fan-translated: most of the potential sales have already been cannibalized.  Even if JAST eventually does release the all-ages remake, they'll do so on Steam where the existence of fan patches wouldn't matter anyway.

 

There's very little harm your patch could cause to sales at this point.  I'd go ahead and release it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The last raep scene too?

 

Okay, thx then mate.

Compared to the original, nothing has been cut from the story.

Dialog and descriptions of things no longer shown in the h-scenes have been removed.

The scenes are still highly explicit, they just no longer show mosaic genitalia.

 

In my opinion, you could view these changes as an improvement, as the artwork in the original Kikokugai is awful (at least from an aesthetic point of view. Character designs and overall direction is outstanding), even for an early 00's game.

 

I could port the uncut scenes from the original game in just a few hours of work, but like I've said before, the artwork is awful, and Ruili and the majority of the gynoids have been redesigned, creating incosistencies which may break any immersion.

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I actually did do that for the test patch, but removed it due to feedback.

 

Visual differences between the scenes:

Ma Jie/Zhang scene:

CG1: Zhang pins the gynoid down from behind and grabs her breasts.

Identical in every way other than the gynoid's exposed genitalia.

CG2: In this one, they have sex from a cowgirl position, entirely unchanged in the remake, other than a higher angle.

 

For the most part, this one could retain most of its original text, though it would still raise some eyebrows.

 

Zhu/Benetnasch:

CG1: In the original, Zhu has attached a cyber penis (kek), which the gynoid sucks. Angle is largely the same in the remake, but she does not use a cyber wang.

CG2: In the original, Zhu has the gynoid mount her in reverse cowgirl position. Identical in the remake, say for the penis and a different angle.

 

You can imagine how weird this scene would be with the constant mention of manhood and other slang for genitalia.

 

Ruili/Ruili:

CG1: Mostly the same, not too explicit. Dialog unchanged.

CG2: In the original, there's some scissoring going on.

In the remake, the young Ruili gynoid is simply on top of the older one, grabbing her breasts.

 

This one would also be very bizarre with the original text.

 

Misc:

The scene where Taoluo washes Ruili's body is now from Taoluo's POV perspective.

The dialog is unchanged, but there is no full frontal nudity, as Taoluo sits behind her.

 

The Ruili rape flashbacks can hardly be called h-scenes, but they play out mostly the  same, say for a higher angle.

The text is unchanged.

 

 

Taoluo (MC) is not sexually involved in any way, thank god.

 

The cut text would be highly inconsistent with visual presentation in every scene other than the Ma Jie one, though it would still be questionable.

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