VN List: Kamige

[Clephas]

This is a list of VNs that go above and beyond, where everything just comes together in an ideal fashion to create a superb VN.  I'm listing those I've played, regardless of my personal tastes.  Unlike the non-Ero list and some of my other lists, I won't be taking input for this from anyone who has played less than a hundred non-nukige VNs (make sure your vndb is updated, if you want to add to the list, lol).  I know that sounds arrogant, but there really isn't any way a newcomer can judge on this issue.  Not all of these VNs have aged well, and there is no such thing as a VN without issues, so I know for a fact that some people will disagree with me. 

 

Translated

Tsukihime (despite the horrible music)

Fate/Stay Night

Muv-Luv Alternative (despite Takeru)

Ayakashibito

Eien no Aselia

Grisaia no Kajitsu

Hoshizora no Memoria

I/O

Ever17

Sharin no Kuni

Majikoi

Saya no Uta

 

Untranslated

Dies Irae

Tokyo Babel

Evolimit

Semiramis no Tenbin

Hapymaher

Komorebi no Nostalgica

Haruka ni Aogi, Uruwashi no

Tasogare no Sinsemilla

Bradyon Veda

Ikusa Megami Zero (but not quite Verita)

Chrono Belt (despite it being an FD)

Konata yori Kanata Made

Rui wa Tomo wo Yobu (and its FD

Natsu no Owari no Nirvana

Nanairo Reincarnation

Soukou Akki Muramasa

Mirai Nostalgia

Hyper→Highspeed→Genius

Harumade, Kururu

Natsukumo Yururu

Futagoza no Paradox

Eden*

Draculius

Irotoridori no Sekai

Satsukoi

Jingai Makyou

Tenshi no Hane wo Fumanaide

Otome ga Boku ni Koishiteiru Futari no Elder

Tsuisou no Augment

Hoshi Ori Yume Mirai (a certain friend of mind finally broke me down to admit this)

Vermilion Bind of Blood

Ashita no Kimi ni Au Tame ni

ChuSinGura 46+1

Dracu-riot

Gun Knight Girl (again, outside input broke me down despite my hate for the protag)

Hatsuyuki Sakura (an acquired taste, though)

Moshimo Ashita ga Harenaraba

Koiiro Soramoyou

Midori no Umi (despite certain issues)

Onigokko

Otome ga Tsumugu, Koi no Canvas

Owaru Sekai to Birthday

Sakura, Sakimashita

Tayutama

W.L.O. Sekai Renai Kikou

Kajiri Kamui Kagura

LoveKami

Kurenai no Tsuki

Namima no Kuni no Faust

Shiro no Pikapika Ohoshi-sama

Tenshin Ranman

Soranica Ele

[Eclipsed]

hi i noob vn scrub with under 10 vn read total y no symphonic Rain       

~~
The only untranslated VN I can recognize is Dracu-Riot... damn shame it never finished translating.



 

[Zalor]

From what I heard, Dies Irae's reading level is high as hell. I am aiming to start reading untranslated VNs during this summer, but something like that is going to take years before I can even consider to tackle. Nice list though, definitely provides me something to strive for.  

 

Edit: 

This opening is so tantalizing

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTxWYSda7uY

[Kosakyun]

>Tayutama

>Onigokko

>Ikusa Megami Zero

>Irotoridori no Sekai

>Tenshin Ranman

 

Look at all the visual novels I wanted to play!

They're considered as kamige, huh?

And to think that Dracu-Riot is also one when I thought it was all about them lewds...

[Clephas]

lol... Tayutama's heroine routes are first-rate examples of the early development of story-heavy moege after it became apparent the public was getting bored with the more mindless types.  It is too bad the anime studio butchered the anime version.  tbh, I had to seriously debate with myself whether to include it, because the common route takes up about half the game, even if you were to combine all the heroine routes into one.  However, the quality of Masshiro and Mafuyu's routes is so high that I had to go ahead and include it. 

 

Going for fantasy love?

[Kosakyun]

What's going for fantasy love?

And thanks, btw. I'll try your list.

[Eclipsed]

Ah, I get it. At first I was confused as to how Dracu-Riot could be a Kamige given the OP's vague definition of "VNs that go above and beyond, where everything just comes together in an ideal fashion to create a superb VN."

You should add the Kamige definition you posted in the moege thread Clephas~ (VN excelling in at least three VN elements: narrative quality, dialogue quality, character development, quality of presentation, audio (music and voices), and visual)

[astro]

Your standards for kamige 

[astro]

Bolded my personal choices for kamige/near-kamige tier games:

 

This is a list of VNs that go above and beyond, where everything just comes together in an ideal fashion to create a superb VN.  I'm listing those I've played, regardless of my personal tastes.  Unlike the non-Ero list and some of my other lists, I won't be taking input for this from anyone who has played less than a hundred non-nukige VNs (make sure your vndb is updated, if you want to add to the list, lol).  I know that sounds arrogant, but there really isn't any way a newcomer can judge on this issue.  Not all of these VNs have aged well, and there is no such thing as a VN without issues, so I know for a fact that some people will disagree with me. 

 

Translated

Tsukihime (despite the horrible music)

Fate/Stay Night

Muv-Luv Alternative (despite Takeru)

Ayakashibito

Eien no Aselia

Grisaia no Kajitsu

Hoshizora no Memoria (for a moege)

I/O

Ever17

Sharin no Kuni <- Meh

Majikoi

Saya no Uta

 

Untranslated

Dies Irae

Tokyo Babel

Evolimit

Semiramis no Tenbin

Hapymaher

Komorebi no Nostalgica

Haruka ni Aogi, Uruwashi no

Tasogare no Sinsemilla

Bradyon Veda

Ikusa Megami Zero (but not quite Verita)

Chrono Belt (despite it being an FD)

Konata yori Kanata Made

Rui wa Tomo wo Yobu (and its FD

Natsu no Owari no Nirvana

Nanairo Reincarnation

Soukou Akki Muramasa

Mirai Nostalgia

Hyper→Highspeed→Genius

Harumade, Kururu

Natsukumo Yururu

Futagoza no Paradox

Eden*

Draculius

Irotoridori no Sekai

Satsukoi

Jingai Makyou

Tenshi no Hane wo Fumanaide

Otome ga Boku ni Koishiteiru Futari no Elder

Tsuisou no Augment

Hoshi Ori Yume Mirai (a certain friend of mind finally broke me down to admit this)

Vermilion Bind of Blood

Ashita no Kimi ni Au Tame ni

ChuSinGura 46+1

Dracu-riot

Gun Knight Girl (again, outside input broke me down despite my hate for the protag)

Hatsuyuki Sakura (an acquired taste, though)

Moshimo Ashita ga Harenaraba

Koiiro Soramoyou

Midori no Umi (despite certain issues)

Onigokko

Otome ga Tsumugu, Koi no Canvas

Owaru Sekai to Birthday

Sakura, Sakimashita

Tayutama

W.L.O. Sekai Renai Kikou

Kajiri Kamui Kagura

LoveKami

Kurenai no Tsuki

Namima no Kuni no Faust

Shiro no Pikapika Ohoshi-sama

Tenshin Ranman

Soranica Ele

[Darklord Rooke]

For a serious VN I thought Ever17 waffled around too much. I was seriously tempted to chuck it at a wall. I suppose that's just a personal preference, but God Almighty it's slow.

 

That sort of stuff is alright for a slice of life novel, but for one with an actual plot.....

 

*Nyah* to all Ever17 fans

[Mr Poltroon]

*Nyah* to all Ever17 fans

@Rooke

 

100 VN's...? Bloody hell, I need to pick up the pace.

It's true that most people around the forums don't read many VN's so I tend to think I've read a respectable amount, but it's sometimes good to be put in your place. 

 

Out of the translated ones...

I can say I/O is not my thing, and I need to try out Eien no Aselia. 

Saya no Uta just looks scary and I'm not touching it with a ten foot pole 

[Down]

I'll be back in 66 VNs to try to push in my tastes 

I remember you don't really like Umineko/Ryukishi07 stuff in general?

 

In Tsukihime you can easily swap the tracks with much better tracks from the anime OST, it's pretty rad.

I'd have said MLA is great because of Takeru, personally

 

And yeah well, obviously personal taste has to come into the mix, except maybe for some games as I've never heard anyone say Dies Irae ain't good. But for example I'm now pretty sure I just don't like Fujisaki's works, at least parts of them (should finish Draculius some day but some things just irk me off =( )

[Kaguya]

Symphonic rain is actually pretty good. If Lise's route wasn't just slightly below average compared to the rest of the VN and Fal's route picked up sooner, I'd be willing to call it a kamige. I wouldn't say it is one, though. 

[Kosakyun]

Saya no Uta just looks scary and I'm not touching it with a ten foot pole 

 

Give it a try. It's cute.

[Clephas]

Give it a try. It's cute.

[Zhiroo]

I'm glad to see there's 3 translated kamiges I haven't read yet.

[Vokoca]

No Subarashiki Hibi?

 

Madness.

[edwd2]

Madness

 

 

EDIT: idc, just add BSD and SubaHibi to untranslated if you're willing to accept input.

[Ezeefreak]

Btw, what are your standards for kamige?! I won't judge your list or something like that but I'm really surprised about it (only referring to translated VN's) and I highly doubt that part:

 

I'm listing those I've played, regardless of my personal tastes. 

[Clephas]

lol, I seriously hated a few of those.  Some just didn't fit my tastes but I was able to enjoy them anyway.  Ashita no Kimi ni Au Tame ni, Hoshi Ori Yume Mirai, Majikoi (I liked Majikoi, but it wasn't my suggestion), Kurenai no Tsuki, Namima no Kuni no Faust, Shiropika, and Tenshin Ranman were all VNs that hit some bad points that would prevent me from putting them on a list of favorites.  However, due to some conversations I had and careful thought, I decided to put them up anyway. 

 

Edit:  Some of these I liked but didn't necessarily loved.  Left to myself, I'd just play chuunige, fantasy, and sci-fi.  Namima no Kuni no Faust is... painful if you know what it is taking a philosophical jab at.  Shiropika is as moe as a moege can be; Hoshi Ori has a nameable protagonist and is so romance-seishun that I wanted to puke; Ashita no Kimi ni Au Tame ni had some issues with the characters that made me grind my teeth; Majikoi couldn't decide if it wanted to be a comedy or an action VN; and Tenshin Ranman used some tropes that put my teeth on edge. 

 

To be blunt, I'm pickier than I let myself be in my VN threads, lol.

[Ezeefreak]

lol, I seriously hated a few of those.  Some just didn't fit my tastes but I was able to enjoy them anyway.  Ashita no Kimi ni Au Tame ni, Hoshi Ori Yume Mirai, Majikoi (I liked Majikoi, but it wasn't my suggestion), Kurenai no Tsuki, Namima no Kuni no Faust, Shiropika, and Tenshin Ranman were all VNs that hit some bad points that would prevent me from putting them on a list of favorites.  However, due to some conversations I had and careful thought, I decided to put them up anyway. 

 

It's not really about what is on the list more than what is not on the list... Can you tell me HOW you judged them? So what makes it a Kamige for you?

 

I just want to understand it better maybe I can agree with you then

[Clephas]

Mmmm... while I did name the technical reasons for choosing a kamige in the post quoted by Eclipsed, I also have a secondary set of standards.  This is more of a basic set of highly-subjective standards that have to be applied to any VN, at least in my case.  I don't accept other people's input on this, though I can sometimes be convinced to revisit a VN to give it a better chance if I think I didn't give it a fair deal (I did this with Hoshi Ori, for instance). 

 

These standards are very simple:

 

Did it make me cry?

Did it make me laugh?

Did it engage my intellect?

Was I able to get behind the eyes of the characters (alternatively: did I become engrossed in the VN as I played?)?

 

I choose the form of a question, because this is what I ask myself after reading any given VN.  four points of my vndb ratings are devoted to this... and VNs that don't get all of them have no chance at a nine out of ten, much less a ten out of ten.   The other technical issues as a whole make up five of the other six points, with the last point being divided based on my completely wordless feelings on the VN afterward.

 

There are no VNs that get literally everything right, though.

 

Edit:  One last issue.

 

There is no such thing as a completely objective outlook on a VN or fiction stories in general.  Anyone who says there is is lying through their teeth, a megalomaniac who is incapable of admitting they have a bias, or is delusional.  Trying to be objective is not the same as actually being objective.

 

Edit2: For instance, I'm a terrible judge of artwork in the particulars.  Unlike narrative, I can't catch every single grainy spot or off-looking eyes (looks at Astro), so I generally don't mention all but the most obviously exceptional artwork in my mini-reviews.  The same goes for music.  I can recognize something truly transcendent (Evolimit's or Hapymaher's OST) when I hear it, but if you give me two songs of almost equal quality intended to bring out the same emotions, I couldn't possibly pick out which one was better.  Give me a story, narrative, and dialogue, though...

[Ezeefreak]

Thanks for your explanation of this. I'm also fully agree with that:

 

Edit:  One last issue.

 

There is no such thing as a completely objective outlook on a VN or fiction stories in general.  Anyone who says there is is lying through their teeth, a megalomaniac who is incapable of admitting they have a bias, or is delusional.  Trying to be objective is not the same as actually beingobjective.

 

I know you're very experienced with VN's and far above my level. And also i will not judge your taste or something like that (because I know mine is far away from being representative ). And If someone can make a list with that headline here it is for sure you.

 

But I'm also nobody who just accept everything only for the sake of being nice. So I have to say you I can't accept that list here. Based on all the definitions I've seen for "What is a kamige" I just think it is wrong to let this be judged by one (or few) people and I also think it's a bit presumptuous to do that. But that should not hinder me to use that list for my future VN's. In the end I just think that the headline is wrong.

[Clephas]

lol... I had some other people ask me the same question.  I tried to answer as best I could, but I think I just confused them more as well.  The problem is that, even moreso than genres, the standards for a 'kamige' differ from person to person (which is the only reason I've taken any input whatsoever from others).  Also, a kamige can't just be 'good' or your 'favorite'... you have to be able to feel that it is something that can transcend your own personal tastes, on at least some levels. 

 

tbh, if I were just to name my favorites, there would be more up there and a number of the others wouldn't be.  the reason I demanded that anyone who wanted to make a suggestion have played at least 100 VNs is that that is the threshold where I, personally became able of seeing beyond my personal tastes to an extent and began transitioning from just calling things 'good' and actually evaluating them on some standard other than that.  Also, when you are limited to translated works, there is an inevitable tendency to overrate the ones you liked, due to the limitations of your experiences.  Generally speaking, someone who has played 100 VNs has either begun to go into untranslated or is also playing OELVNs.  Either way, there is at least some widening of perspective. 

 

I know at least a dozen people on here who fulfill those conditions, and I was kind of hoping they'd make their own suggestions... For instance, I don't know if there are any OELVNs that could be considered kamige.  I'm also not that interested in mystery or horror, so I'd like someone with a taste for that to come forward and help add to the list.  I probably should have made that clear.

 

I'm not trying to be a snob by making that requirement... though it probably sounds like it (I'm about 99% certain it does *smiles wryly*).  It is simply a rather obvious marker for the kind of wider perspective needed to judge whether a VN might be worthy of being called a kamige. 

 

Edit:  Also, my perspective is significantly different for a much simpler reason... reading speed.  My reading speed is just so much faster that I can't understand at a gut level what it is like to take 100 hours to complete a VN the size of Muv-Luv Alternative (as an example).  For that matter, I honestly have never taken longer than forty hours to finish a VN that didn't contain gameplay of some sort.  I always have to wonder how that effects the experience.

[Kaguya]

As short as it is, Phenomeno may count as one. I am incredibly biased towards that type of story, though (to the point I realize it's just about impossible for me to give meaningful input about them) so it may be just may tastes speaking here.