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Moeges


Kaguya

  

54 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you feel about moeges?

    • I like them.
      24
    • I dislike them.
      8
    • I don't feel strongly about them at all.
      15
    • Fifth choice just so I can tell my friends and family that I picked the alternate option in a pool.
      1
    • I love them so much I'm going to marry the concept and elope to the moon.
      1000000000000005
  2. 2. Do you think they have value to our hobby?

    • I think they're poison for VNs.
      2
    • They're the best thing that ever happened and I don't play any other type of VN.
      5
    • Slightly. The pros outweigh the cons for a small amount.
      35
    • Nah, though they're not the worst thing either.
      11

This poll is closed to new votes


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I have my own thoughts on the matter, but I'll leave them for after I can hear yours. What do you think about moeges?  They bring an unique userbase to our hobby, that's for sure. Do we think we'd be better off without them to be more respect as a story-telling medium (in this alternate universe where nukiges don't exist) or do you think they bring no harm after al?

 

Also, I'm not asking about nukiges here, people. We had that discussion 10000 times and we know how it always ends. This thread will be moderated with an iron fist of justice, and posts that start to take any sort of discussion there will be removed~

 

...And this thread may have been made in the past before (I think it's weird if it didn't). If it did, then I'm making it again. Because that's how it works when mods post :P

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I think moeges are nice to have around and can help bring beginners into VN's with something simpler and easier to read. They might not always have the greatest story or plot but they do help pick up vocab etc. They are also nice to read for a break between all the more intense VN's for a sort of little layed back break. Moeges have their own place  within the VN community and are a nice thing to have around.

 

PS. When I talk about picking up vocab etc I am saying it is useful for someone who is learning the language.

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I don't feel very strongly about moeges, I just don't really get moe to begin with (it's too broad a concept for me and nobody's ever able to explain what it is). I got a vague idea of what it's supposed to designate but it's pretty blur.

It just happens so that what people call moege usually coincide with uninteresting games.

 

It can't possibly be the cancer killing VNs either. People say that moe is the cancer killing anime and it's stupid, "moe" by itself has never been the issue, it's just that more than often things with moe in them are not good.

Plus in the case of VNs, the industry wouldn't be able to sustain itself without all those moege and nukige.

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For a brief on my own opinion, I don't like them, but I don't think they bring any harm. What's moe to me is different than what I find in moeges, to begin with.

 

Also, please note how there are only four choices in the top poll.

It's on purpose.

 

I think moeges are nice to have around and can help bring beginners into VN's with something simpler and easier to read. They might not always have the greatest story or plot but they do help pick up vocab etc. Moeges have their own place in the VN community and are a nice thing to have around.

I'm talking more about the western VN community, where picking up vocab isn't much of a thing. (do the japan folks have problems with moeges? I must admit I don't know anything about them. Even when I do read VNs in JP, I just talk about them here :P)

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Well, I can like them, but I also tend to lose interest in them pretty quickly if they aren't pretty far above average. The dialog has to be well written, and the humor needs to actually be funny and not the same generic tropes I've seen a million times with no spin on them. Most moege don't deliver, but thankfully translators cherry pick the better ones (with some exceptions, see Koi Iro Chu Lips...).

 

You better be able to tolerate them if you want to keep on reading VNs in the next year or two, because most of the translation projects nowadays are for moege. For the longest time, it was all plot-based stuff with some dabbling in more serious charage. But our own translation community is translating like 90% light and fluffy moege it seems, which is really skewing things. I wonder what it is that set us in that direction.

 

edit: Moege also often leads to the biggest disappointments. You can get a decent idea of what you're getting with other genres, but moege just sells itself on cuteness. Several times now I thought "wow this seems cute and funny!" going in, only to end up bored to tears or worse. Latest disappointment: SakuSaku. It was so highly rated! But those character routes are soooo bad. Once a moege has passed the first hurdle (having at least passable humor and characters in the common route), the next biggest seems to be how well they transition that into the character routes. That's where SakuSaku crashed and burned.

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Well they bring a different dimension to the VN market. I don't feel particularly anything about them. I can enjoy it sometimes but they aren't what I want when I am searching for a specific title. It is like the third or forth option when I don't have anything else that interest me.

 

But the good thing about them is the art. The "hnnng" feeling is a good thing sometimes. So more or less. They bring something to the community but I am not head over heels about it. Everything is up to personal references. A moege with nice characters can be really enjoyable. The best girl discussion is a battlefield sometimes. :)

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But our own translation community is translating like 90% light and fluffy moege it seems, which is really skewing things. I wonder what it is that set us in that direction.

Is it, really? I never noticed that trend but I don't really follow all the fan TLs.

It might be that moege are simply easier to translate and people don't complain about arguably bad translations for them.

 

Or it's all a huge plot to turn us towards the localization companies who somehow decided to start localizing good games.

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I'm talking more about the western VN community, where picking up vocab isn't much of a thing. (do the japan folks have problems with moeges? I must admit I don't know anything about them. Even when I do read VNs in JP, I just talk about them here :P)

Cleared up a misunderstanding in my post. I meant it as in an someone with another language not Japanese as their first language reading it in Japanese as a learning tool.

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Cleared up a misunderstanding in my post. I meant it as in an someone with another language not Japanese as their first language reading it in Japanese as a learning tool.

I understood that. My reply was basically saying that I was intentionally ignoring JP existed for this discussion alone, to focus more on our community.

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People can tell whatever story they wish, tis a free country. I don't like moeges but I have no problem with them being a part of the VN market, just like I don't like smutty romance novels but also don't have a problem with those books existing. 

 

PS: @Kaguya: The first poll has no "I love moeges so much I'm going to marry the concept and elope to the moon" option...

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People can tell whatever story they wish, tis a free country. I don't like moeges but I have no problem with them being a part of the VN market, just like I don't like smutty romance novels but also don't have a problem with those books existing. 

 

PS: @Kaguya: The first poll has no "I love moeges so much I'm going to marry the concept and elope to the moon" option...

That's a pretty good point. I made this thread because I do see moege bashing very often (even I don't like them too much, though I don't think they're bad)

 

Poll fixed. 

 

 

 The best girl discussion is a battlefield every time. :)

Fixed it.

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hmmm. moege.....

since i still new in vn field.

I think moege is more like "extra" goods. When i look for more vn , i mostly look to Description of stories plot 1st..

and then I look for which Developer which ("do i read it before or not") .

 

At the end, i guess is up to personal taste .

(Ps: maybe moege is good to have because easy to spread vn in good way or "alternative")

Thank you for reading till the end and sorry about my grammar fail.

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Is it, really? I never noticed that trend but I don't really follow all the fan TLs.

It might be that moege are simply easier to translate and people don't complain about arguably bad translations for them.

 

Or it's all a huge plot to turn us towards the localization companies who somehow decided to start localizing good games.

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Heh, I'm reminded of the book market here. Literature gets a lot of respect. They're serious novels for serious people and all those who wish to hold these books must first approach in a respectful manner, make sure your hands are clean, and support them gently and reverently in your arms. Despite this, I've read that if you're a literature author all you have to do is move 7,000 hardcover copies of your literature novel and you're a bona fide God-send. The figure is so low because literature doesn't sell that many copies.

 

Genre fiction, on the other hand, is looked down upon a little in the book world. They're not novels for thinkers, they're just for entertainment. But most people work, and after they've had a 9-7 slog of tedious office work, shouty bosses, smarmy work colleagues and hostile customers, most people just want to come home and be entertained. So it's not a surprise that genre fiction sells so MUCH. And it shouldn't be a surprise that romance books and sci-fi/fantasy novels are right up the top.

 

Not allowing genres because they don't have high artistic value is a good way to kill off a story-telling medium, really.

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Moege are cute (mosty), I like cute things, therefore I like moege.

 

Does it need to have any deeper meaning? I'm not good with deep stuff.

 

I feel that it's somewhat unfair to rate moege based on how well their story's written. I don't think that's the goal of moege to begin with, hence why I hardly complain about story when I read any type of moege, I mostly just judge the characters and if I like them as well as the overall feeling the game gives me.

 

Judging moege based on the story is like judging a race based on the outfits the athletes wore. 

 

Sure it's fine to want a well written story, and I think there's plenty of room to do that, especially outside of moege, but that doesn't mean we can't have our light and fluffy content, nor that it doesn't belong in this universe.

 

Let's all just appreciate things for what they are~

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7ARsYs-Gq0

 

Using YuzuSoft's as example, moe characters are everything in their VNs. I think they exist to serve the fantasies of Otakus -- cat/dog-girls, majo, miko, childhood-friend, tsundere, you name it!

 

They are kitschy essentially just like some animations, where just few heroines and protagonist talking with each other. 

 

As a part of Otaku-culture, they are valuable to those who like Japanese anime-style characters.

 

Even though they are repetitive and cliched, it's not a bad thing if they can fill up your fantasies and bring you a lot of amused moments.

 

 Yet, just like what Decay has said, I also lose interest in them pretty quickly because the immunity against the magic of "moe" grows quickly with every finished moege.  

 

 

 

 

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I shrug so heavily to moege that I often dislocate my shoulder because of it. Visual novels are barely a thing, why should we try to protect the medium from stories people might deem of low artistic value? In any case I wouldn't want visual novels to be respected if this means refraining from pleasing all kinds of people all around the world.

 And

Heh, I'm reminded of the book market here. Literature gets a lot of respect. They're serious novels for serious people and all those who wish to hold these books must first approach in a respectful manner, make sure your hands are clean, and support them gently and reverently in your arms. Despite this, I've read that if you're a literature author all you have to do is move 7,000 hardcover copies of your literature novel and you're a bona fide God-send. The figure is so low because literature doesn't sell that many copies.

 

Genre fiction, on the other hand, is looked down upon a little in the book world. They're not novels for thinkers, they're just for entertainment. But most people work, and after they've had a 9-7 slog of tedious office work, shouty bosses, smarmy work colleagues and hostile customers, most people just want to come home and be entertained. So it's not a surprise that genre fiction sells so MUCH. And it shouldn't be a surprise that romance books and sci-fi/fantasy novels are right up the top.

 

Not allowing genres because they don't have high artistic value is a good way to kill off a story-telling medium, really.

 

As my new member title suggest (finally got 500 post counts :D) my view is a lot more staunch and conservative. I wouldn't have a problem with genre fiction, moege's, and other such things if they made up the minority of the market. In my mind these works are like dessert, really nice every once in a while after a main course, but they should not be the main course itself. Works that are more intellectual in nature, I think serve a higher value and should make up the majority of the market, unfortunately it is the other way around. Reactionary and intellectual works make up the minority of the market, and are thus treated as a dessert instead. The only positive about this, is that this then incentivises me to reread and further appreciate such things more. But aside from the rare occasion, I would rather reread something with a lot of thought put into it, then read pure entertainment fiction. I emphasized pure because literature is not boring, it is entertaining as well, but it is also so much more. Ultimately it comes down to this for me. Would I rather read something that challenges my perspectives, biases, and makes me think about my views, and is thus memorable; or do I want to spend time with something forgettable but keeps me temporary entertained? I personally almost always choose the former.  

Keep in mind that when I use the word literature, I am also referring to thought provoking VNs as well. 

So there is my unpopular opinion on the matter. Don't lynch me please!

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