Roach Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well. In Tsubaki's epilogue, when Kyousuke and Tsubaki are planning their future life and stuff, it was said that Haru is still pursuing Maou (which mean Maou's still exist) and goes to another town. I'm a firm believer of "Kyouhei loved Kyousuke so much that he was willing to abandon his quest for revenge to let Kyousuke live a happy life" theory -_- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebros Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well. In Tsubaki's epilogue, when Kyousuke and Tsubaki are planning their future life and stuff, it was said that Haru is still pursuing Maou (which mean Maou's still exist) and goes to another town. I'm a firm believer of "Kyouhei loved Kyousuke so much that he was willing to abandon his quest for revenge to let Kyousuke live a happy life" the Well. In Tsubaki's epilogue, when Kyousuke and Tsubaki are planning their future life and stuff, it was said that Haru is still pursuing Maou (which mean Maou's still exist) and goes to another town. I'm a firm believer of "Kyouhei loved Kyousuke so much that he was willing to abandon his quest for revenge to let Kyousuke live a happy life" theory -_- I don't think Maou's departure at the end of each heroine's story is properly explained. He was angry with Kyousuke because he was working for Gonzou and because he left their mother alone. Except for Tsubaki's ending Kyousuke keeps working for Gonzou. Why does Maou suddenly decide to abandon his plan to save his father ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjm152 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I've read this VN twice now in the last 6 months and I think I have probably asked and answered most of these questions already, so I'll offer my insight since it's still fresh in my mind: On the suitcase scene in Tsubaki's route: You're slightly misinterpreting the satisfaction of seeing the suitcase empty. From Kyouske's perspective this means that his plan to get Tsubaki's family out of their house will succeed, that's why he's happy. It's not Kyouhei rejoicing over getting the money - which as we find out later is actually worthless anyway because the share prices dropped. That's actually a plot point in the VN - as soon as Tsubaki's family put that money in those shares, they were always going to lose their house. Remember - this is one case where both Kyousuke and Kyouhei have the EXACT SAME GOAL (technically they are both working for the same people, but Kyousuke is "subcontracting" out via the Yakuza). On Maou disappearing on all the side routes: There are usually 2 significant events that happen at the end of each side route, or are alluded to: 1. Haru disappears or moves away within a few months. 2. Kyousuke re-establishes his relationship with his mother (she actually moves in with him and Tsubaki on Tusbaki's route) In the case of the first event, we can assume that Haru either interrupts Kyouhei's plans, or eventually kills him (potentially even with the help of Gonzou, who is still alive in all the side routes). In the case of the second event we can safely assume that Kyouhei has no desire to kill his brother who is supporting his mother - which was Kyouhei's main complaint really about Kyousuke's behavior anyway (at least when he's not boning Haru). On Kyousuke being Maou Obviously they want us to consider that he COULD be Maou as we read through the VN (and some people I talked to really sincerely believed he absolutely was!) but the biggest problem with this theory is Haru herself. To put it bluntly, if Haru actually though Kyousuke was Maou she would have tried to trap him at some point in the novel, or at the very least, had misdirected him about her intentions at several key plot points. It's obvious once we learn about her backstory why she doesn't do this (there is no way a young boy would be bombing opera houses in foreign countries) but from the readers perspective you have to rationalize this behavior prior to that reveal by thinking that Haru is falling for the "Selective Obliviousness" trope when it concerns Kyousuke, despite her repeatedly showing herself to be a brilliant detective and utterly dedicated to catching Maou. To be fair, I think the author put in several nudges to get people to have some cognitive bias in this direction, but this alone should have been the biggest signifier that Kyousuke wasn't Maou, because otherwise the narrative would have developed entirely differently between him and Haru as the game progressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluethunder91 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Yeah, what jjm152 said. You guys are thinking about that suitcase scene a bit too hard. It IS Kyousuke. He's giving a victory smirk because he didn't actually want Tsubaki's family to get back their money, since it was his job to make them sell their land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipsed Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Sounds about right. I never bothered to even look up the scene(s) so I wouldn't know. Ty for explanations~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemon123 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Probably my favourite VN. TBH thinking about it seems really ridiclous but for some reason I really love it. Dat ending tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdomcome Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yeah, it's probably my favorite VN, even though I haven't played it in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyaes Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hah I'm glad I picked this one to read. I'm really liking it so far. Reminds me of fight club. That alone shows its quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'll probably get some hate for this, but as fun as the story right now for me (on Shiratori's story), the game comes across as pretentious at many points to me. It releases a lot of basic information that anyone who glances at the subject would know to make the characters appear highly intelligent. Like anyone who watched basketball in the 90's knew Scotty Pippen was the glue on the Chicago bulls. I guess it sounds fascinating to the Japanese. It's like a crime story for beginners. I like this line a lot though, "I don't live according to the times. I live solely based on my own judgement." I really dislike Shiratori's chapter. Her backstory with Yuki is a tiresome cliche that's been overplayed in anime over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I considered G-senjou as a 'masterpiece' when I first read it. Yet I thought the side-route wasn't that good. Honestly, I think most of the praises G-senjou got came from the true route. It was just on a completely different level than the rest of the story in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjm152 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I considered G-senjou as a 'masterpiece' when I first read it. Yet I thought the side-route wasn't that good. Honestly, I think most of the praises G-senjou got came from the true route. It was just on a completely different level than the rest of the story in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I just finished up the game and my personal thoughts on the entire thing: - Usumi Haru: One of the best heroines ever - Maou: Disappointed with his "Big Reveal" and final plan. - Kyousuke: Bland MC. Honestly wished he was Maou instead. - Ending: Main Route felt like it came to a sudden wreck I'm a huge Sharin no Kuni fan, and so was really looking forward to the hype that was built up around this game being the successor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I just finished up the game and my personal thoughts on the entire thing: - Usumi Haru: One of the best heroines ever - Maou: Disappointed with his "Big Reveal" and final plan. - Kyousuke: Bland MC. Honestly wished he was Maou instead. - Ending: Main Route felt like it came to a sudden wreck I'm a huge Sharin no Kuni fan, and so was really looking forward to the hype that was built up around this game being the successor. Ehh, I prefer Kyousuke over protags like Hoshimemo's You. I find flawed characters more interesting than the cliche nice guys that frequently appear in romantic VNs. Not saying that he's as good a character as Yuuji, but at least he has a little depth to him. jjm152 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipsed Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 ^ What Zeno said. If Kyousuke is bland, boy do I feel bad for the 'all around nice guy' protags - I too was disappointed with the big reveal. Alotta wasted potential imo. - Alas, another victim to hype. I tend to avoid getting hyped up for things nowadays cuz of that xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 - Alas, another victim to hype. I tend to avoid getting hyped up for things nowadays cuz of that xD Truest words. I guess everyone has their own MC preference. I just was let down so much when I found out Kyousuke wasn't Maou. It ripped out a core reason why I was fascinated with him in the first place. I thought Kenichi was a better MC than Yuuji by the way. Also did they think we'd just forget if Haru never played the violin? There wasn't one violin performance in the game despite it being the title. How smart of them to escape that from us. What's with all the side characters? They are about as alluring as Muv Luv's heroine choices for everyone not named Meiya. Tyrael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjm152 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Truest words. I guess everyone has their own MC preference. I just was let down so much when I found out Kyousuke wasn't Maou. It ripped out a core reason why I was fascinated with him in the first place. I thought Kenichi was a better MC than Yuuji by the way. Also did they think we'd just forget if Haru never played the violin? There wasn't one violin performance in the game despite it being the title. How smart of them to escape that from us. What's with all the side characters? They are about as alluring as Muv Luv's heroine choices for everyone not named Meiya. Honestly, this is just your taste. There's nothing thematically wrong with either of these issues. Most people like Kyouske and don't want him to be Maou that's the intended dramatic intention of the novel. Is he or isn't he? With the "He isn't" being the reward for people who want to see him with Haru. Also, Haru overcoming her inability to play the violin is also a plot point. The fact that this comes at the denouement instead of earlier is just a simple literary device of book-ending character development. It's introduced early that she cannot do this because of her trauma, which leads to her obsession with revenge, and at the end when she has given up revenge and healed from her trauma, she picks it up and it's inferred she did it because it was the one thing she could do for Kyouske when she couldn't do anything else. It's romantic. I'm not saying it's wrong for you not to appreciate these points, but this has nothing to do with "hype". For many people, they really enjoyed these plot developments (and i consider myself one of them). Roach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Just to be clear, I type at work so I cannot go in to detail. I'm pretty sure I specified that this was based on my own taste so I'm not sure why you felt the need to remind me. And though I prefaced my last post with a nod to Eclipsed, the rest of that post were not the points I believed were what made or break this hype either. This point however I believe DOES break the hype for me. I'm not sure who you mean by most and why you must bold certain letters for me to understand. I've seen varying opinions on this VN that doesn't exactly reach the unifying agreement you think it does. I've actually seen more people scratch their heads at the Deus Ex Machina like plot device when they inserted Kyousuke's brother into the fray. Intended or not this wasn't the strongest point of writing in the novel. I hear it's a problem due to the way the VN is structured. But I've yet to play the other routes and I doubt I will anytime since non of these routes seem to qualify for it. On a preference side, I would've been happier seeing Haru with Kyousuke-Maou and dealing with the issues of finding out that he's Maou. The dramatic tension there fell anti-climatically when the brother showed up to take the role. You have to admit though, Haru was the only good heroine in the game. The rest weren't even gravy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 My memory is a bit vague because it's been so long since I read G-senjou. Sorry if I got the details wrong. I kind of disagree about "inserting Kyousuke's brother into the fray" being a Deus Ex Machina. I don't really get why people think the introduction of Kyouhei come as a sudden thing to happen. I never thought Maou is Kyousuke (except when Kyousuke thought that he is indeed might be Maou). In fact, I thought Maou might be Kyousuke's relative ever since I saw that photo/CG of her mother, which is, in chapter 2? I don't know. Anyway, that's just my opinion and my opinion doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 My memory is a bit vague because it's been so long since I read G-senjou. Sorry if I got the details wrong. I kind of disagree about "inserting Kyousuke's brother into the fray" being a Deus Ex Machina. I don't really get why people think the introduction of Kyouhei come as a sudden thing to happen. I never thought Maou is Kyousuke (except when Kyousuke thought that he is indeed might be Maou). In fact, I thought Maou might be Kyousuke's relative ever since I saw that photo/CG of her mother, which is, in chapter 2? I don't know. Anyway, that's just my opinion and my opinion doesn't matter. I think your opinion matters for what mine is worth <3 (eeven though you think mines is worthless) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I think your opinion matters for what mine is worth <3 (eeven though you think mines is worthless) Wait, what? I didn't touch the other points you made precisely because I thought it's one of these opinion thingies. I didn't want to argue about it because that's your opinion and I respected it. No hate pls <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Where's the hate? I was simply teasing you. Don't over react. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyaes Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I've got a question about something I'm kinda confused about. Is kyousuke aware he is also Maou and just putting on an act around everyone he doesn't want knowing? I'm only on the third chapter so please no spoolers. I'd imagine it would revealed at some point, but I want to know if he's pulling an act the entire time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipsed Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I've got a question about something I'm kinda confused about. Is kyousuke aware he is also Maou and just putting on an act around everyone he doesn't want knowing? I'm only on the third chapter so please no spoolers. I'd imagine it would revealed at some point, but I want to know if he's pulling an act the entire time? It'd kinda be a spoiler for us to answer that y'know Keep reading; you'll find out in later~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Where's the hate? I was simply teasing you. Don't over react. (eeven though you think mines is worthless) Ouch. Sorry. </3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 -edited- I won't bother Eclipsed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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