Zodai Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (Note, this hasn't been updated in a while. If you wish, you should probably consider it dropped, but if it still interests you, shoot me a PM anyway.) -AT THE END OF A SUMMER'S KNIGHT- Many salutations, esteemed forum-goer! Thank you for your visit. I can assure you that we will be having a splendid time here. Seeing as how the OELVN community has just been hit with a severe blow, both with the cancellation of Dysfunctional Systems and the announcement of a sequel to Sakura Spirit, which no doubt must be causing severe pain to our fellows, I have taken it upon myself to take up the developer's banner once more, and bring victory to Fuwa-kind! At the End of a Summer's Knight, is a short 4-6 hour Visual Novel, mostly kinetic with the exception of a single choice halfway through the final act. The story takes place in Europe, in an undecided/fictional country, during what may or may not be the period of the French Revolution or something similar. Somewhere around the enlightenment period. Anyway, political turmoil, fancy suits, badass assassins, lots of swords and lots and LOTS of fighting. Oh, and if we're ever short on music, I think most of the music from that period has entered open-source by now, so we might just be able to use that, which would be ab-sol-utely splendid! In terms of marketing/pricing, if we don't end up releasing it for free maybe 3-5$ on Steam would be the best approach. I don't intend to make this difficult to approach, but in the case of everything but Katawa Shoujo, Free = low quality in the minds of many people. I would rather avoid that, so a minor price would be useful, though it's certainly up for debate. Art is probably going to be our weak point, so I'm assuming this will likely be presented in NVL mode, to draw more attention to the writing as opposed to the art. Engine will most likely be Ren'py. For now, there are about seven to eight characters who would need some sprites, though this is subject to change. (I certainly don't plan to add any more, at the very least.) I don't believe many individual sprites across those will be necessary though, as we're trying to keep this minimum to low budget, if money is involved at all. Best-case scenario, either we're able to release for free or we can put the funds towards a 'next project' if possible. --CHARACTERS Good guys --Protagonist (28-30 years old, think Emiya Kiritsugu, or Tay if you prefer) Possible name: Revin? Revin Kardnell? --Protagonist's daughter (7-9 years of age.) Not sure if she's important apart from a supplement to the protagonist's arc. May or may not be a source of moe. --Rebellion Leader (Older than Protagonist by about 5 years. Charismatic, not afraid of killing, strong and dies about halfway through.) --Fellow Rebel (Otherwise known as 'Genderbent Battler'.) Bad guys --King (Dies in the opening sequence. Might not even need a sprite, just a CG or two if we can manage it right.) --Prince (Damn good with a sword. Personality would usually be that of a rival character if we're following standard shonen fare. A year or two younger than the protagonist.) Possible name: Clovis? --Bumbling other prince (Prince's fancypants cousin from god-knows-where. Installed as a figurehead by the prince after the king's death. Arrogant and not very bright.) --Genderbent Beatrice (What, you can't have Battler if you don't have Beatrice, can you? Originally a rebel member, stayed behind during the opening sequence and got captured. Then he goes half-insane as time goes on, eventually turning 'full-on evil' for the sake of bloodlust.) Possible name: Bastien? Bastien Semmias? --Guard Captain (Not easily aggravated, and actually quite calm. Uses a bow in a world where guns are just starting to become more commonplace.) Note: Genderbent Battler/Beatrice are only referred that way for humor's sake in addition to that being their origin, and will probably be quite different as things develop. Please don't consider those the most important parts of their character. Remember, Battler is female and Beatrice is the male. After that, there would be the outline. Consider this a less-detailed flowchart. It should cover all of the major events in a summarized fashion. Names will be given for the characters, but these are not thought through and are more of a placeholder/inside jokes. >>> marks indicate that it has moved to the next scene. This will only cover the very basics, so don't expect it to be in-detail. NATURALLY, THESE WILL HAVE SPOILERS IN THEM. JUST LETTING YOU KNOW. --ACT I Opening scene, Protagonist (Tay) assassinates the king along with Rebel Leader (Kamel), Genderbent Battler (Serah) and Genderbent Beatrice (Jonathan). The enemy gives chase, Jonathan is captured but the others escape. Prince (Rem) other prince (Eivan) and the Guard Captian (Mark) are introduced at some point as well. >>> Rebel Base, Kamel gives a big speech to boost morale. Introduction of Tay's daughter (Erran) with a heartfelt scene or something. >>> Jonathan's cell. Interrogation isn't going well, no information and he's strong enough to flat-out kill one of the guards while being chained up. Constantly insulting Rem, etc etc. It's at least hinted he's begun to go insane, but he's not going to give any info. >>> Eivan is inducted as king. There's a huge ceremony at the same place the king was killed. He gives some bumbling speech or something, and Mark questions Rem's decision on this. Unnamed rebel #1 is sent to keep a watch, but doesn't find anything. On the way back, #1 is noticed acting suspicious by some guards. They immediately assume him to be a member of the rebel faction, and after a small chase, he is captured. >>> For interrogation purposes, #1 is put into a death match. With Jonathan. If he wins, he gets to go free. If he rats out on the location of the rebel base, he gets off easy with a lifetime imprisonment. #1 has a sword, and Jonathan is unarmed. It doesn't matter, because Jonathan rips both of #1's arms out anyway. It's just been SO LONG since he got to feel the ripping and tearing of human flesh, so he decides to have a little fun with this one. #1 lets out the location of the base, but he has to stay in the arena because Eivan is a lying piece of shit. >>> A feast, to our victory! The rebels are eating. Tay and Serah is playing with Erran, everything is nice and happy. Until a lookout tells everyone a check is coming. They do their best to keep their cover, but the guards intimidate one of the rebels into bringing out their weapons, and all hell breaks loose. Tay manages to Escape with Serah and Erran, but Rem kills off Kamel in a fight. >>> Tay and Erran are resting at Serah's workshop for the time being. She has a good amount of medical supplies, but can't contact the rest of the rebels without getting spotted. So they're stuck. --ACT II Jonathan breaks out of his prison and goes on a massacre. Kills a bunch of guards and stuff out of sheer bloodlust. From here on his 'weapon of choice' is a scythe in addition to his standard hand-to-hand combat, but he wields it like an axe and stabs people with the pointy tip as opposed a slashing motion. Eventually Rem comes up to stop Jonathan, they're about equally matched but after a drawn-out fight Rem comes out on top. They both survive and Jonathan beings to 'respect' Rem in the only way a bloodthirsty beast like him can. Jonathan is promoted to Vice Captain of the guard and gets a fancy spot right next to Mark. >>> Flashback time! Tay dreams about his first time meeting Kamel. Tay and Erran (Along with Serah, though he doesn't know her name yet.) are being hauled along in a cart for 'acts against the royal family', and set to be executed tomorrow morning. Also, Tay's wife got her head chopped off when the guards were taking them in. Chances are at least half the people in the cart are innocent, Tay and Erran included. Kamel comes in to save everyone, and after some sweet-talking/shonen-style encouragement Tay goes out to fight, while some others make sure Erran is safe. >>> Tay wakes up, they're in Serah's workshop still. Serah complains that they're running out of food, but she can't go out because the guards are still on high alert. Erran collapses, but she tries to tell everyone she's alright. Tay and Erran have a fancy reminiscence scene about back when Tay's wife was still alive or something. Erran tries to convince Tay to stop fighting. >>> Remember when I said Jonathan begins to respect Rem? This is when that's spelled out. Jonathan is in medical attention and has a conversation with Rem. Jonathan is still insulting him at every opportunity, but I don't think he wants to rip his head off anymore. In exchange for being Rem's dog-lackey, Jonathan gets to maul a prisoner/former rebel member once per day, similar to the rules #1 got when he died. >>> A former rebel member comes up to the workshop. Someone ratted on their location and the guard is on their way. Serah is all like FUCK! and the group has to dash out of the shop. They make it for a little bit, but eventually they're spotted and end up dashing through the rooftops. Erran is having trouble walking, and it's slowing the group down. Tay tells Serah to carry Erran somewhere safe while he holds them off. At first Serah denies, but soon she realizes they don't have time to argue. Tay takes another route to divert them, but comes across Mark sniping from a nearby tower. Tay can't get through without getting hit, so he goes to attack Mark. He comes close to winning, but either Mark outsmarts him on his own or Rem comes up to assist, I haven't decided which. Anyway, Tay is captured after this. >>> (The summary is taking a bit long to write, so I'll finish it later. Act III is the last one.) --WORKLOAD As for the writing itself, if I'm the only one like I expect, I'll likely write them in traditional novel format in a Word Document, then move them over to the Ren'py engine on a scene-by-scene basis, regardless of whether or not the art/sounds are finished by then. They will be added in as they are completed. Other writers are welcome to come if they are interested, however I will most likely require a sample of former work. Artists and sound people are in the highest priority, followed by managers and programmers, and then additional writers. They all have a chance, but the lower you are the higher-quality work it might take to get accepted. Larger teams take much more work to manage. --ARTISTS The art teams will most likely be taking their impressions from the initial word-document drafts. We don't have the time nor the budget to ask for a shit ton of redraws, so in the absolute worst case we'll probably be going for two or three and then stopping it there, going for whichever one seems the 'best.' My instinct says we might need maybe one redraw for three or four of the characters, and the rest will probably just be rolling with it. Quality assurance is important, but too much puts a burden on the artists, which isn't even where most of the effort should be. If the artists are unclear on any characters at all, ask me and I'll write up an extra scene focused on their descriptions, etc. Put the burden on the writers early so we don't have to put unnecessary burden on the artists later. The writers are the ones in abundance, so put the burdens on the ones who walk into this knowing they'll take the highest load. If they can't take it, then they probably aren't strong enough for what we're asking for. This goes for any writers looking to join up as well. That said, art style is something that might take a bit of iteration. We might need a few different types of the protagonist to base what the game in-general should look like. I'm not sure how to give in-depth advice on this, so for now I'll say stay away from the styles of HoshiMemo and Clannad, and move closer to those of Steins;Gate and Sekien No Inganock. As for backgrounds, I am PERFECTLY FINE if you just take a picture and put a filter over it like they do in the unpatched version of Umineko, but as this doesn't take place in modern times, it may be a bit difficult to find pictures that fit. And this is a decision that has to be done early, you can't just have some backgrounds be pictures and some that are drawn. It's too much of a style break to work. CGs might also be changed depending on which we choose. If the artists are unclear on any characters at all, ask me and I'll write up an extra scene focused on their descriptions, etc. Put the burden on the writers early so we don't have to put unnecessary burden on the artists later. The writers are the ones in abundance, so put the burdens on the ones who walk into this knowing they'll take the highest load. If they can't take it, then they probably aren't strong enough for what we're asking for. This goes for any writers looking to join up as well. --SOUND GUYS As for the music, this is something I don't know how to give too much advice on. For now I'll say that hard rock, frilly pop, rap or any of the other 'modern' genres probably won't fly. On the other hand, anything with a violin/piano has a higher chance of fitting. I'm not really experienced in this myself, but I wish you the best of luck. Sound effects...I have even less experience in. I'm not going to be too greedy in terms of this, but just do your best. I might be the least qualified person on the forum to figure these out. --MANAGERS/PRODUCERS Managers, I would prefer you had a project under your belt, but I know that might be a bit much. Actually, manager might be a bit too lofty of a title. Your job is to make sure everything is running smoothly, that everyone knows what needs doing and to generally keep people from trying to kill each other. While I won't hold much against you in terms of actual work, I will scour your personality like a fucking hawk. Listen to me and listen to be good, if you're the one keeping everyone in high spirits I'm going to make damn sure you can deal with whatever people throw at you, and if you're secretly a power-hungry man-demon I will snap your fucking neck* and send you back out to the wilds before you can say 'Fuck you!' *Hypothetically, of course. I can't really snap someone's neck over the internet, nor would that bode well with law enforcement. This goes for anyone calling themselves a producer as well. In this case they might as well be the same thing. Best-case scenario would be having Tay as a manager, but he already does so much work with the boards I don't really think I'll have any chance. So feel free to look at him as a good example. --PROGRAMMERS Programmers, make sure you know your way around Ren'py. I only know a limited amount of information myself, and while I might be able to make it work there might be some stuff I don't know for sure. There might not be much to do, so I doubt you'll end up an ultra-core member of the team, but it certainly helps to have one on board in case something serious comes up. --WRITERS Writers, PUT ON YOUR FUCKING HARD-HATS BECAUSE IT IS GO TIME!!! Writing is the backbone of the project in as many ways as you can possibly imagine, and I will push you to the highest caliber of writing possible by those fingers of yours. Listen to me and listen to me good, I have given the artists and sound people every liberty I can - they're in limited stock and damn fucking expensive most of the time, so we're not focusing on them. Compared to you, their job is simply to make it 'passable.' A set of art assets and sound that may or may not enhance the experience, but are at least half-appealing to look at and won't cause one to revolt back in disgust. Because the thing that's supposed to catch the audience is YOU. Make no mistake, I WILL WORK YOU TO THE FUCKING BONE. Expect to be editing over every line of writing many times over, because the entire time the audience is going through this it's YOUR writing that they're going to be reading, and I will not allow them to fall from the grasp of our art for not even a FUCKING SECOND. Listen to me and listen to me good, I will make you grab them by the collar and drag them screaming and choking through this story, and they will fucking LOVE you for it. But that does not come without a cost, and you will pay it just as much as I will. If it sounds like I'm scaring you off, I AM. I will not underestimate the quality of writing we are asking for - there's no such thing as a perfect story, but I will yank every single one of us crying and screaming to get as close as we fucking can, and if I'm too weak to do it myself, I'll get the fucking manager to do it for me. Do you really want to get out done by the fucking MANAGER, of all people? He's shit! He probably hasn't written a day in his life! You can do better than that! No offense to whoever our actual manager ends up being. I'm sure you're probably a very nice person, otherwise I would've snapped your fucking neck ages ago. Should we somehow get this finished, and somehow get this through all the greenlight stuff at steam, for the weak 3-5$ something like this would be sold for, you can expect the writers to get the lion's share of the profits. I will not let your efforts go without merit given the chance. But at the same time, I will not let you go without effort. I am not going to underplay the importance of the writing here. Every second someone stops reading of their own choosing is a second we have failed. Under no circumstances shall we let that happen. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? If you do, then good. Grab some coffee, and welcome to the club. It's going to be a looooong night. --Epilogue Now that that's done, I have one last thing to say. While the possibility of this being sold exists, do not come into this expecting to get paid. Should this be of high quality enough I will do what I can to make sure those with the effort and willpower get what lies at the end of the tunnel, but I will make damn sure that you put out the effort if you want this to happen. Half-assed work, and that goes for any of you, won't be worth a penny in the commercial market. I'm sure we all want this to go as far as it can, and I will make it happen with all of my strength. But do not think you can make something so much as a physical reward without putting out every last fiber of your being into this. And with that, I suppose that's everything. Should we get some examples of art, writing, etc created, we shall put it up. Maybe a demo or two as well if we're able to. But until then, I ask of your patience. I estimate a release around August 2015 if everything goes smoothly. Maybe later. Good luck, everyone. If you're interested, please PM me or make a post below. Mr Poltroon, babiker, sirjabberwock and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supah Kawaii Weeaboo Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 After reading your post, Zodai, it sounds like you're concerned about having a creative team that's organized and able to get projects done. It's probably good to plan now, and make sure that you are prepared. After all, game and story development are both subject to Murphy's Law: if anything can go wrong, it will. I have seen quite a few indie and freeware video games never get past the planning phases, or stuck in development hell. Also, plenty of promising crowd-funded games have lead to unfinished or cancelled products. If you plan to work on "At the End of a Summer's Knight," then consider the following: * What experience can you bring? In other words, have you already finished work on one of your own stories, a number of drawings, or something else? * How much do you care about the story? I believe that you should commit to helping only if you're very interested in seeing it get finished. Otherwise, your disinterest will show. In the words of a rock band, "If you don't care then we don't care." * Are you concerned about money? If the answer is "yes," be careful. Not many indie games make money. Also, even if it manages to get released on a popular service such as Steam or Gamersgate, it might get ignored. A couple of side comments: * It's your choice what art style you use. If you ask me, I'd say "Whatever makes sense for the story." Sometimes a distinct type of art is appropriate. For instance, consider what the creators of Club Shuffle and Tell a Demon are doing. Discuss this if you believe that you will benefit. * It's your decision how you categorize your story. In my opinion, you will benefit by using words that represent it accurately, and present it in a positive light. You could call it "a porno dating sim" if you wanted. However, that phrase would be completely inaccurate if your story is completely worksafe, if it does not have simulation gameplay, and if it does not include any romance elements. Diamon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodai Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 After reading your post, Zodai, it sounds like you're concerned about having a creative team that's organized and able to get projects done. It's probably good to plan now, and make sure that you are prepared. After all, game and story development are both subject to Murphy's Law: if anything can go wrong, it will. I have seen quite a few indie and freeware video games never get past the planning phases, or stuck in development hell. Also, plenty of promising crowd-funded games have lead to unfinished or cancelled products. If you plan to work on "At the End of a Summer's Knight," then consider the following: * What experience can you bring? In other words, have you already finished work on one of your own stories, a number of drawings, or something else? * How much do you care about the story? I believe that you should commit to helping only if you're very interested in seeing it get finished. Otherwise, your disinterest will show. In the words of a rock band, "If you don't care then we don't care." * Are you concerned about money? If the answer is "yes," be careful. Not many indie games make money. Also, even if it manages to get released on a popular service such as Steam or Gamersgate, it might get ignored. A couple of side comments: * It's your choice what art style you use. If you ask me, I'd say "Whatever makes sense for the story." Sometimes a distinct type of art is appropriate. For instance, consider what the creators of Club Shuffle and Tell a Demon are doing. Discuss this if you believe that you will benefit. * It's your decision how you categorize your story. In my opinion, you will benefit by using words that represent it accurately, and present it in a positive light. You could call it "a porno dating sim" if you wanted. However, that phrase would be completely inaccurate if your story is completely worksafe, if it does not have simulation gameplay, and if it does not include any romance elements. Thank you for your input. It's certainly true to ask as many questions as you can, as otherwise the discussion is incomplete. Truth be told I'm aware of how often projects tend to peter off before they get rolling, and to be honest I've had a few of those experiences myself already, usually which I've come to take as learning experiences. * What experience can you bring? In other words, have you already finished work on one of your own stories, a number of drawings, or something else? I have experience running around in both game design and traditional writing, though I haven't gotten stuck to a project long enough to hit completion. It's something that worries me personally, but I'm working through things and gaining experience as I go along. I'm at least passable in terms of knowledge with Ren'py, but I consider my writing skills to be at least among the top 5 on the board, though I haven't taken to comparing myself to the likes of Nasu or a published author yet. I have a collection of drafts in another thread on the board ( https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/7653-looking-for-feedback-on-writing-drafts/ ) though they haven't been updated in a while as I'm waiting for confirmation on the exact rules behind bumps and double-posting. They're more for feedback, and only drafts 3 and 5 among those have the kind of quality something like this is going to need. It's alright to write something bad for experience if you don't actually put it into the work - it's actually quite a common method. * How much do you care about the story? I believe that you should commit to helping only if you're very interested in seeing it get finished. Otherwise, your disinterest will show. In the words of a rock band, "If you don't care then we don't care." I'm certainly quite committed, I'll say that much. When people only get started when that burning passion exists, the progress ends as soon as a single falter kicks in. We can't always assume that the passion will be there for us, but we push forward regardless so we can be ready when it comes back. Otherwise, nothing ever gets done. Just keep working on it every day, until the day hasn't been finished until you work on it. If it becomes habit it's no longer tedious, even without the passion. And then when the passion turns up, you haven't stopped getting better, so you burn through a third of the work in a single night, or while you're waiting at the airport because you have nothing else to do. * Are you concerned about money? If the answer is "yes," be careful. Not many indie games make money. Also, even if it manages to get released on a popular service such as Steam or Gamersgate, it might get ignored. I would say I'm half-concerned. Whether or not it will sell is secondary, but if we do end up profiting off it sorting through what portion of the funds goes to what team member is something I have very little experience in. I'm much more inclined to say I would consider the experience gained from creating the VN as more valuable than something like getting a whole bunch of sales, though that would certainly be a nice bonus as well. * It's your decision how you categorize your story. In my opinion, you will benefit by using words that represent it accurately, and present it in a positive light. You could call it "a porno dating sim" if you wanted. However, that phrase would be completely inaccurate if your story is completely worksafe, if it does not have simulation gameplay, and if it does not include any romance elements. Right now, it seems much more action-oriented than most others in the genre, so Action-focused Visual Novel would work. Though that in particular is quite long-winded and might not work well for marketing terms...a phrase that would work more easily might have to be thought up at some point in development. * It's your choice what art style you use. If you ask me, I'd say "Whatever makes sense for the story." Sometimes a distinct type of art is appropriate. For instance, consider what the creators of Club Shuffle and Tell a Demon are doing. Discuss this if you believe that you will benefit. My gut says that an anime-ish style would do well, even if some of the main reasons would be because it's familiar to both the devs and the main audience. Could help streamline development in that regard. That said, color palette and tone are quite important. In particular I asked to stay away from HoshiMemo and Clannad because their styles are much more suited for their own stuff as opposed to something more action-y/grittier in terms of tone. Steins;Gate and Inganock still aren't quite as action-heavy as this, but their stories are certainly quite 'gritty' or at least 'dark' in some sense of the word. (Please note I'm not referring to grittiness in the AAA development world such as Call of Duty. That just seems to be grittiness for grittiness' sake. Not a fan of that.) It's something we'll have to think through. Shikkoku no Sharnoth actually might be kind of similar to this in terms of when it takes place. Perhaps we could look to that for inspiration? Aside from that, thank you for the comments. I'm sure they will be quite helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamon Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 You seem to be a very conscientious writer, and I'm glad to see that there are more people out here on Fuwanovel trying to create OELVN! You may have already read it, but I wrote a guide about VN developement on Fuwa that hopefully will be of use for you : https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/7981-so-you-want-to-create-a-visual-novel/ Now, some little questions / comments I had : 1°) If you have an idea about the plot of your story, what about writing a short synopsis in the presentation? It is more appealing than a list of events, faster to read, and it's easier to figure what do you want to focus on as a writer : Plot? Emotion? Reflection? Romance?... 2°) While your post is very neatly and professionally written, remember that you are dealing with amateurs and people that never tried to participate in this kind of project in the first place. You're the one asking for help, so it might be a good idea to have a little more encouraging tone, even though I totally understand that you're worried about the quality of the work that can produce the artists / writers / composers. 3°) I'll be honest here, if you're going with a 6-8 hours VN, you probably won't have a team with more than 10 members (if it approaches that number, than it's a bad sign for you), and if that'ts the case, you don't need to recruit someone solely for the purpose of managing. I actually think that you would make a good manager yourself, seeing that you're the one that started the project in the first place, and as a result has an idea about the general direction you want your VN to take, and seeing that you seem to be quite the organized guy as well! 4°) Are you envisaging the possibility of starting a kickstarter? 5°) Because you are starting this thread on Fuwanovel, doesn't mean you need to recruit only on Fuwanovel. For artists, I'd recommend skimming through deviantArt and pm artists yourself, especially since you seem to have a precise idea about what style of drawing you want. For composers, you should try either Lemmasoft or directly try your luck on Soundcloud (or Youtube). 6°) I'm not exactly sure if more than one writer is a good idea for a short length VN, especially since it doesn't seem like there will be routes or anything like it. It might bring you more conflict and work than what you'll expect in the end. 7°) If you're interested in an alternative for ren'py that doesn't require a programmer, I might be of help^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodai Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 You seem to be a very conscientious writer, and I'm glad to see that there are more people out here on Fuwanovel trying to create OELVN! You may have already read it, but I wrote a guide about VN developement on Fuwa that hopefully will be of use for you : https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/7981-so-you-want-to-create-a-visual-novel/ Now, some little questions / comments I had : 1°) If you have an idea about the plot of your story, what about writing a short synopsis in the presentation? It is more appealing than a list of events, faster to read, and it's easier to figure what do you want to focus on as a writer : Plot? Emotion? Reflection? Romance?... 2°) While your post is very neatly and professionally written, remember that you are dealing with amateurs and people that never tried to participate in this kind of project in the first place. You're the one asking for help, so it might be a good idea to have a little more encouraging tone, even though I totally understand that you're worried about the quality of the work that can produce the artists / writers / composers. 3°) I'll be honest here, if you're going with a 6-8 hours VN, you probably won't have a team with more than 10 members (if it approaches that number, than it's a bad sign for you), and if that'ts the case, you don't need to recruit someone solely for the purpose of managing. I actually think that you would make a good manager yourself, seeing that you're the one that started the project in the first place, and as a result has an idea about the general direction you want your VN to take, and seeing that you seem to be quite the organized guy as well! 4°) Are you envisaging the possibility of starting a kickstarter? 5°) Because you are starting this thread on Fuwanovel, doesn't mean you need to recruit only on Fuwanovel. For artists, I'd recommend skimming through deviantArt and pm artists yourself, especially since you seem to have a precise idea about what style of drawing you want. For composers, you should try either Lemmasoft or directly try your luck on Soundcloud (or Youtube). 6°) I'm not exactly sure if more than one writer is a good idea for a short length VN, especially since it doesn't seem like there will be routes or anything like it. It might bring you more conflict and work than what you'll expect in the end. 7°) If you're interested in an alternative for ren'py that doesn't require a programmer, I might be of help^^ Thank you for the reply. Yes, I've already read the guide, though I don't remember it much in-detail. I'll have to re-read it a few times to remember things in further detail. 1°) If you have an idea about the plot of your story, what about writing a short synopsis in the presentation? It is more appealing than a list of events, faster to read, and it's easier to figure what do you want to focus on as a writer : Plot? Emotion? Reflection? Romance?... I don't have any fancy tagline that would work for marketing purposes, but I suppose I can think up a more effective manner than what's already up there. As for the focus, I usually find myself as a Character-focused writer, but this story in particular seems like it would be better with a Plot focus, especially considering the small scope we're going for. 2°) While your post is very neatly and professionally written, remember that you are dealing with amateurs and people that never tried to participate in this kind of project in the first place. You're the one asking for help, so it might be a good idea to have a little more encouraging tone, even though I totally understand that you're worried about the quality of the work that can produce the artists / writers / composers. It's true that it may be more efficient in terms of simply gaining members, truth be told giving people an ideal gauge of what I expect from them is something valuable as well. I will say that I may have gone a bit overboard in the writers section (Mostly because hiring someone severely underskilled might actually make things harder to progress, in which case I'm better off doing it all myself) and the manager section (Since I'm communicating that there's a lot more to it than just 'bossing people around.') but in-general I feel it at least paints a somewhat accurate picture. I'll have to consider looking over those ones again sometime... 3°) I'll be honest here, if you're going with a 6-8 hours VN, you probably won't have a team with more than 10 members (if it approaches that number, than it's a bad sign for you), and if that'ts the case, you don't need to recruit someone solely for the purpose of managing. I actually think that you would make a good manager yourself, seeing that you're the one that started the project in the first place, and as a result has an idea about the general direction you want your VN to take, and seeing that you seem to be quite the organized guy as well! Truth be told ten sounds far beyond my current estimate of about five, maybe six. I'm not 100% confident in my own manager skills yet, but if you think it might be good, then hopefully it is. ( I feel like my position would be closer to 'head writer' or something similar, maybe 'director' if you want to get all fancypants about it. ) Into consideration. 4°) Are you envisaging the possibility of starting a kickstarter? Quite opposed to it. I don't trust my ability strongly enough to hold the weight of a ton of people like that, but I'm both without the connections to spread it, nor do I have any idea where in particular it would be spent. We're already under the assumption of a low budget, and we can make due with what we have. 5°) Because you are starting this thread on Fuwanovel, doesn't mean you need to recruit only on Fuwanovel. For artists, I'd recommend skimming through deviantArt and pm artists yourself, especially since you seem to have a precise idea about what style of drawing you want. For composers, you should try either Lemmasoft or directly try your luck on Soundcloud (or Youtube). I've certainly considered it, but I'd like to get more substantial progress before hopping onto something like Lemma. My thoughts on any specific art style aren't really set in stone, as there's only a general field of stuff that might fit the tone of the game as a whole. Not very familiar with DeviantArt, but since most people there seem to be commission-based I feel like I'd rather steer clear until we have more progress. 6°) I'm not exactly sure if more than one writer is a good idea for a short length VN, especially since it doesn't seem like there will be routes or anything like it. It might bring you more conflict and work than what you'll expect in the end. Another reason the bar for additional writers is set so damn high. Probably won't be going for three, but if there's someone exceptional who I think has the skill I'll certainly consider it. I have confidence in my writing ability but I don't know how high the workload I've put onto myself is with this yet. So it'll take some trial and error, and having another body on the field can assist with that. 7°) If you're interested in an alternative for ren'py that doesn't require a programmer, I might be of help^^ I'd much rather stick with Ren'py. It's one of the more familiar VN engines out there, and since it's free everyone can grab a copy without too much issue. People are a lot more likely to have some experience with it starting out anyway. ~~ Apologies if some of the responses are a bit rushed, I'm feeling tired >< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamon Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Thank you for the reply. Yes, I've already read the guide, though I don't remember it much in-detail. I'll have to re-read it a few times to remember things in further detail. 1°) If you have an idea about the plot of your story, what about writing a short synopsis in the presentation? It is more appealing than a list of events, faster to read, and it's easier to figure what do you want to focus on as a writer : Plot? Emotion? Reflection? Romance?... I don't have any fancy tagline that would work for marketing purposes, but I suppose I can think up a more effective manner than what's already up there. As for the focus, I usually find myself as a Character-focused writer, but this story in particular seems like it would be better with a Plot focus, especially considering the small scope we're going for. 2°) While your post is very neatly and professionally written, remember that you are dealing with amateurs and people that never tried to participate in this kind of project in the first place. You're the one asking for help, so it might be a good idea to have a little more encouraging tone, even though I totally understand that you're worried about the quality of the work that can produce the artists / writers / composers. It's true that it may be more efficient in terms of simply gaining members, truth be told giving people an ideal gauge of what I expect from them is something valuable as well. I will say that I may have gone a bit overboard in the writers section (Mostly because hiring someone severely underskilled might actually make things harder to progress, in which case I'm better off doing it all myself) and the manager section (Since I'm communicating that there's a lot more to it than just 'bossing people around.') but in-general I feel it at least paints a somewhat accurate picture. I'll have to consider looking over those ones again sometime... 3°) I'll be honest here, if you're going with a 6-8 hours VN, you probably won't have a team with more than 10 members (if it approaches that number, than it's a bad sign for you), and if that'ts the case, you don't need to recruit someone solely for the purpose of managing. I actually think that you would make a good manager yourself, seeing that you're the one that started the project in the first place, and as a result has an idea about the general direction you want your VN to take, and seeing that you seem to be quite the organized guy as well! Truth be told ten sounds far beyond my current estimate of about five, maybe six. I'm not 100% confident in my own manager skills yet, but if you think it might be good, then hopefully it is. ( I feel like my position would be closer to 'head writer' or something similar, maybe 'director' if you want to get all fancypants about it. ) Into consideration. 4°) Are you envisaging the possibility of starting a kickstarter? Quite opposed to it. I don't trust my ability strongly enough to hold the weight of a ton of people like that, but I'm both without the connections to spread it, nor do I have any idea where in particular it would be spent. We're already under the assumption of a low budget, and we can make due with what we have. 5°) Because you are starting this thread on Fuwanovel, doesn't mean you need to recruit only on Fuwanovel. For artists, I'd recommend skimming through deviantArt and pm artists yourself, especially since you seem to have a precise idea about what style of drawing you want. For composers, you should try either Lemmasoft or directly try your luck on Soundcloud (or Youtube). I've certainly considered it, but I'd like to get more substantial progress before hopping onto something like Lemma. My thoughts on any specific art style aren't really set in stone, as there's only a general field of stuff that might fit the tone of the game as a whole. Not very familiar with DeviantArt, but since most people there seem to be commission-based I feel like I'd rather steer clear until we have more progress. 6°) I'm not exactly sure if more than one writer is a good idea for a short length VN, especially since it doesn't seem like there will be routes or anything like it. It might bring you more conflict and work than what you'll expect in the end. Another reason the bar for additional writers is set so damn high. Probably won't be going for three, but if there's someone exceptional who I think has the skill I'll certainly consider it. I have confidence in my writing ability but I don't know how high the workload I've put onto myself is with this yet. So it'll take some trial and error, and having another body on the field can assist with that. 7°) If you're interested in an alternative for ren'py that doesn't require a programmer, I might be of help^^ I'd much rather stick with Ren'py. It's one of the more familiar VN engines out there, and since it's free everyone can grab a copy without too much issue. People are a lot more likely to have some experience with it starting out anyway. ~~ Apologies if some of the responses are a bit rushed, I'm feeling tired >< Haha, it's fine don't worry!^^ The only thing I can say is that people can also be interested in concepts, as long as it's presented neatly and cleanly like you're doing, so you might as well want to look for members on other sites even without anything concrete at hand, even in devianArt. If you actually look for non famous artists with less followers, I'm pretty sure you can actually find some hidden gems that are looking for artistic projects to involve themselves in, even for free, or even if they are not sure they'll get paid. And truth be told, you will have a much much easier time to attract people into your project with art. Anyway, I can only wish you the best of luck on your VN, I'll be following your progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodai Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Aye. I'll be wishing myself luck as well. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosakyun Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I wish you luck as well, Josh. I'll just put that here so that I can keep track of the progress you'll be making. Once again, goodluck! I'll give this one a try if you ever release it. I can also read your drafts if you'd like me to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.