Subarashiki Hibi discussion

[Dreamysyu]

35 minutes ago, PiggiesGoMoo said:

This is the first time that h-scenes and fan service annoyed me in a VN. I think it's because it defied my expectations massively.  I have to strongly disagree with the OP, because I think most of the h-scenes and ecchi scenes actually don't contribute to the plot at all.  I'm not even talking about any of the disturbing scenes. Besides those, there are tons of ecchi scenes, panty shots, and gratuitous h-scenes.

Yeah, I agree. I think, SubaHibi is a good example of why the formula of "plot with porn", commonly used in VNs, often doesn't work as well as it should. A lot of h-scenes feel completely pointless. Also, they noticeably harm the pacing of the story in the Invention and Insects chapters. I get that, technically, it's porn and should only be judged as such, but still, it's a part of the story, and, at least, it shouldn't feel out of place.

Other than that, yeah, Subahibi is pretty great. So far it's basically the only "philosophical" VN I've read where philosophy was really interesting and didn't feel out of place. I know that there are a lot of plot points and references that I didn't really understand, but still, it was very entertaining to read.

[Frullo NDE]

1 hour ago, PiggiesGoMoo said:

Just finished Subahibi.  There are a lot of things I liked about this VN.  The music, the imagery, the plot, the characters, etc. I do have some complaints though:

1. This is the first time that h-scenes and fan service annoyed me in a VN. I think it's because it defied my expectations massively.  I have to strongly disagree with the OP, because I think most of the h-scenes and ecchi scenes actually don't contribute to the plot at all.  I'm not even talking about any of the disturbing scenes. Besides those, there are tons of ecchi scenes, panty shots, and gratuitous h-scenes. There is even this:

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A pretty typical sexual relationship with a sister (typical for an eroge VN, that is ). Was this necessary? Hisaki is adorable of course, but why did it need to get sexual?

2. Subahibi also has some dark comedy in places where it really broke immersion for me. I do like comedy in VNs, but there was some really odd uses of comedy in Subahibi. For example (from Insects):

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WTF is with that scene with the goofy looking dancing half-naked "God" after that incredibly dark rape and mind-break of Zakuro???   Under normal circumstances I would have laughed, but this happens right after what I think is the most disturbing series of events in the entire VN.  It was very immersion breaking for me, as if SCA-Di was playing a joke on the reader. I almost want to say that it's self-indulgent on his part.

Or this (from Invention):

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The depiction of Kamika as she got closer to Takuji is incredibly light-hearted. Constant panty shots, moe, and silliness, despite the incredibly dark circumstances of drug use and manipulation.  What was the point of this? Maybe this type of juxtaposition is SCA-Di's style, but it felt dissonant to me, and ended up detaching me from Kamika's story. And actually, I think Kamika's story is quite good in terms of plot.

 

Complaints aside, I thought the endings were good and satisfying.  I will say this though, despite what people might say, the game definitely does seem to have a "true ending". The reason I say this is because there are certain mysteries that are completely unaddressed unless you go with this particular ending. Specifically:

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Only "End Sky II" really gives an explanation of Ayana and chapter 1. Does that make it the true ending? It seems like it does.

 

I  glad I'm not the only one who was weirded out (not in a good way) by that scene in Insects. At least in Invention all the "dissonance" kinda makes sense in the end, where that one scene seemed just random and ruined the emotional mood for me. And yeah, there are indeed too many useless h-scenes but I guess that's just necessary pandering.

Overall, I found Subahibi a thrilling but flawed experience. Glad I played it, but the whole "best story in every media ever" that keeps popping around seems kinda laughable to me.

[littleshogun]

Finished with Looking Glass Insect main route, I just want to say that the bullying was pretty over the top and I understand that no wonder if Zakuro really want to destroy the whole Kita High. Also in turn it tell us that Takuji knew that by saving Megu and Satoko while condemning Senagawa-sensei, he would make the formers follow him simply because the one with heavier sins were saved thanks to him. So basically Zakuro's here was the harmonizer in which if she dead, then the events of Invention will be happened because of the scribbles at her desk and Takuji found that scribbles.

As for the last stretch of the story, I have a little of doubt. My doubt is that why both of Usami and Ayumi was suddenly afraid of suicide Spiral Matai at the D-Day and didn't care about the world being destroyed. If not for the fact that Usami herself is the one who to told Zakuro about those, I won't doubt that really. Okay, I can say that both of Usami and Ayumi did have a sudden counseling to have snapped them enough in regard of Spiral Matai, but still I think that both of them can just ran away and didn't came to the meeting place in the first place, because no matter of how dramatic the story is their change of personality was too rapid (MPD?). Or if we supposed to see that they knew about Spiral Matai nature, then I think they can show of how afraid they were to do that in their first meeting with Zakuro instead of encourage her. So what I can say is that we lack information for both of Usami and Ayumi, and to me it's a shame because actually their story should be important if the result of their search of Zakuro was the Invention story. So if anyone else can tell me the importance of those two characters, perhaps you can tell me here (Not something like they were Zakuro's fellow PreCure in Elhimuro or something like that, although maybe SCA-DI can propose the Elhimuro PreCure idea to Toei XD).

Even though I did write so much about both of Usami and Ayumi, I guess it would be understandable if the rumor that SCA-DI have development hell was indeed true. And that's one of the example of how prominent it is, because actually the scenes when Zakuro about to do Spiral Matai was also in Invention and perhaps it won't be that surprising if SCA-DI just think about Insect plot detail after he finished with Invention. The other evidence that Subahibi was in development hell is that the date is showed some discrepancies with the synopsis, and it's pretty evident when Zakuro said that July 12th 2012 was Sunday while if we look at the computer date we knew that it's Thursday, so there's no way that Zakuro will have holiday at that date (Don't tell me that Zakuro did have hallucination that July 12th was indeed Sunday). If we didn't have the promotion that it was set at 2012, there won't be any discrepancies like that and actually it simple to do if SCA-DI check the computer callendar (The in game year should be at 2009, in which it's probably be the development year for Subahibi).

For the next plan, I would continue with Jabberwocky if I follow the usual one. Although despite of that I still haven't saw Kimika's routes yet though, so maybe I'll see those first.

Edited April 19, 2018 by littleshogun

[littleshogun]

Finished Subahibi, and other than some plot point left behind I'm satisfied enough with the conclusion. My opinion in regard of mismatched date still the same though, although looking back at the production maybe at first SCA-DI intended this as 10th anniversary of Tsui no Sora before changing the year to 2012 in order to follow topical Mayan prediction (But it still didn't change the fact that the date was mismatch though). My life here is definitely change with one more VN finished XD. As for 'End of Sky 2' ending, I guess it'll better if I leave it to the internet mass guessing seeing that I'm quite bad at make my own theory for that lol. What I can say in regard of the ending is that the beginning was definitely uncanny considering that we have emotional climax before that, and the ED song for that is also uncanny as well.

Spoiler

Even though End of Sky 2 imply that Subahibi world might not be real, I won't challenge the theory here because as long as someone make the fiction, the events in fiction becoming real as long as the writer didn't add self insert characters too much (Or in this case implied as Ayana's imagination inside the hospital). Although Ayana herself was in story though, but at least she didn't interfere with the story much.

As for several questions that was asked here, here's my interpretation for the answer.

Spoiler

Q: What Kotomi did to Takuji so much that the latter became insane (Takuji attempted to kill Hasaki 7 years ago)?

A: From what I see in Invention, what I remember is Takuji always said that his mom always force him to play piano or reading the hard book while also talking about the prediction. So it's easy to guess that Kotomi did abuse Takuji when he didn't satisfy her and overpraise him whenever Kotomi satisfied with Takuji's action. Also since Kotomi convinced that by killing Hasaki it mean that Takuji would gain his power, I would guess that Kotomi probably keep telling Takuji that he must eliminate Hasaki in order to gain the power. Kotomi herself is a deranged woman though, although more or less we can say that she is what Zakuro would grow up if she didn't dead. Which beg the question, what kind of abuse that Kotomi receive when she was younger so much that she willing to have Takuji gain his 'power' in order to reunite with her deceased husband (Tomosane's dad as well). Oh yeah, both of Tomosane and Takuji here is actually the sibling, albeit from different father.

Q: What's the importance of Iwata Miu?

A: As for Iwata Miu, I believe that she might be Ayana's best friend. So it's only normal for her to have some interaction with the twin. Also keep in mind that the prologue is more or less is a dream, so I'm more or less okay with all of those events ie can't explain it clearly lol. What my concern is that she is Hasaki's friend that allow her to sneak inside the school in order to give Tomosane the lunch, so I think Miu's importance is more or less to just allow Hasaki to enter the school, and more specifically create Hasaki's presence in the high school. That's why Yuki would be able to see Kagami and Tsukasa in the school even though there's no Hasaki, and yeah all of those three characters is the same person for the reminder (Tsukasa's personality is taken from Hasaki's timid personality, while Kagami's personality is taken from Hasaki's aggressive personality).

Q: Who is Yuki that Mamiya sibling saw at the Hill of Sunflower ending?

A: Since the story always insisted that Yuki here is the split personality, I think we can rule out the ghost possibility (Also to be in line with Tomosane here didn't believe Kotomi ability to controlling the dead). As for split personality, I think we can also rule out that considering that Hasaki could also saw Yuki here. And no, there's no 'Tomosane is dead and Hasaki did have hallucination theory' as well, because if Tomosane dead then he wouldn't be able to talk to Kimura (The journalist) here. So the possible theory that left to interpret is that Yuki here is probably the same existence as Ayana, which mean that Yuki somehow managed to gain the status like Ayana here after her death. The reason is that because we already knew that both of Tomosane and Hasaki can see Ayana, and I think it's the only possible theory to allow the sibling to get their 'Wonderful Everyday'.

I think that's all what I can write about guessing in Subahibi for now, and keep in mind that my theory here might be flawed though.

Edited July 30, 2018 by littleshogun

[cro-mag]

So, after reading some posts here, i think it was a good idea to decide to read Subarashiki. It's been on my top 2 VNs to read since September when i first heard of it. OK, good, i think it'll be maybe late July when i start it (hopefully), so looking forward to that,

[☆Ayase☆]

I tried playing this game before but it was little too scary for me (^^;

Denpa is scare

[Dreamysyu]

45 minutes ago, ☆Ayase☆ said:

I tried playing this game before but it was little too scary for me (^^;

Denpa is scare

How far did you read?

[littleshogun]

Finally I managed to find a way of how to reorganized my feeling in regard of Zakuro's route climax, and the way is just treat it as soap drama lol. The reason of that because there's a lot if the drama that wouldn't be uncanny in soap opera such as female bullies, jealousy, almost suicide, rape, depression, and hysteria.

 

So in the end we didn't need to find out of whose Ayumi and Usagi really is or what's the reason of why they suddenly didn't want to jump off from the roof after indirectly encouraging Zakuro to do that, because what we need for Zakuro climax here is that they need to be very dramatic with hysteria and SCA-DI decided to wrote that. As for soap opera characteristic, one of those was that the characters can come off without foreshadowing or proper reason, so both of Usami and Ayumi here fulfill that roles in Subahibi. While we can argue that both of them did see the world end website so that they become paranoid, unfortunately it still couldn't explain of why they suddenly managed to unlocked their own memories as ElHimuro PreCure even though they supposedly live separatedly, and that we lack of the desciption of whether El Himuro is real or not even after finishing the VN (Granted that they raped and abused so they might not mentally unstable, but still).

In the end what I can say is that just forget the detail about the climax other than it's necessary to be dramatic, and know that Zakuro's story climax here is influenced Subahibi. Especially after knowing that actually SCA-DI also wrote Zakuro's climax like that back at Tsui no Sora.

Edited January 3, 2019 by littleshogun

[yelsha57]

I'm going to read this vn at some point, despite the disturbing themes. It still interests me though, since it's a mystery and I love the op and artstyle. 1st I'm going to finish some vns. I will read this next year or later this year. I'll just skip any scenes that I can't handle. Luckily I can press the control button. I may get it during the Steam summer sale, and I'll get the patch for it. I love how it has a thrilling story, and I'm wiling to try it. I just been reading positive reviews and posts about it. Anyway I hope I can read it soon. I'll try my best to complete some vns first.