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I want to finish this game already! Thread


Sakimichi

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I was just entirely gobsmacked at how Yoshiyuki lost all common sense and what seemed to be half his brain. Couldn't take it anymore.

I agree, although I endured it, it was one of the worst routes out of all the VNs I've played. Although I have to say the rest of the game is awesome, I'm still not finished, but I've loved everything except Koko's route.

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D.C.II is very good, I loved it, I share your opinion about Koko's route...my favourite is Anzu's

I feel the h-scenes in D.C.II where highly skippable...didn't like them, but endured them anyway

Pity I couldn't get the ost anywhere ;_;

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^ I heard that Chihaya's route is the worst in the game, but I'm willing to play it if only because I love her. Then again, I love all Rewrite girls, especially Akane.

I wouldn't say it's bad, more a bit predictable.

Chihaya the hurricane r is plenty amusing enough though.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I guess at this point I don't have the patience to sit through any but the most well done H-scenes since they're ripe with unbelievable dialogue and overdone descriptions about the acts being done. In some cases, it feels like somebody whipped out an adult thesaurus and wanted to see how many different ways they could describe the basic motions of intimacy. x.x

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I guess at this point I don't have the patience to sit through any but the most well done H-scenes since they're ripe with unbelievable dialogue and overdone descriptions about the acts being done. In some cases, it feels like somebody whipped out an adult thesaurus and wanted to see how many different ways they could describe the basic motions of intimacy. x.x

H-scenes always have been a comedy element of the games, haven't they? Type-moon games have hilarious ones. Seafood metaphors and tohsaka's anus ftw.

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The only 2 VNs I have skipped texts are Dracu-riot and Little busters.

Dracu-riot feels suddenly boring at Rio's route. I have no interest in that kind of naive and soft-heart girl from the start and her extreme lack-of sex knowledge annoys me for some reason.

After that I found myself totally skipping at secret route,

They should at least make that secret route

Hiyori's route, not that reverse-trap girl

As for LB, I skipped at onee-san route. Reason ? Easy~I hate onee-san type characters

Well, they are just personal preferences so no offense :D

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That second point happens to me with almost every VN I've ever played. In general, with most VNs, there are just a lot of gag scenes that I no longer feel like I have time for. They help you grow attached to the characters, so it's hard to write them off, but it's a tough mix for me. As for the first point, when I do find it boring, I'll pretty much to drop the game :P/>/>.

This. Whenever I find it boring to continue a game, I won't skip, I'll just outright drop it. I've done that with 3 Key games, Clannad, Little Busters and Kanon. Clannad because it's just too damned long and I had to get EVERY single little fricken route, even Akio's route, Little Busters because the common route was really tedious and I just didn't like Kanon. I'm having the same problem with Hoshizora no Memoria as I did with Little Busters (i.e. when will they get to the point??) Is Hoshizora no Memoria worth it?

As for Rewrite, each route is different so I wouldn't write off (no pun intended) the entire game due to one boring route

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This. Whenever I find it boring to continue a game, I won't skip, I'll just outright drop it. I've done that with 3 Key games, Clannad, Little Busters and Kanon. Clannad because it's just too damned long and I had to get EVERY single little fricken route, even Akio's route, Little Busters because the common route was really tedious and I just didn't like Kanon. I'm having the same problem with Hoshizora no Memoria as I did with Little Busters (i.e. when will they get to the point??) Is Hoshizora no Memoria worth it?

As for Rewrite, each route is different so I wouldn't write off (no pun intended) the entire game due to one boring route

You don't need to get every single little route in Clannad for the main juice of the stuff.

You kind of need a certain type of sense of humor for Keys common routes since they seem to use the same type of comedy through-out their games. Rewrite is slightly different, but only by a hair.

Hoshizora is pretty good, but Little Busters was amazing too, so it's up to you.

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I don't usually skip in VN's but I do find that many VN's are bogged down with too much unnecessary text or even whole routes that shouldn't be there (G-senjou I'm looking at you).

Stole the words right out of my mouth. G-senjou no maou I felt had way to much unnecessary text. I really wish Visual novels would follow a more laconic writing style sometimes, it worked for Earnest Hemingway, I don't see why it can't work for a games narrative.

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Stole the words right out of my mouth. G-senjou no maou I felt had way to much unnecessary text. I really wish Visual novels would follow a more laconic writing style sometimes, it worked for Earnest Hemingway, I don't see why it can't work for a games narrative.

Well, I don't feel the same way. One of the big point about VNs is the huge character development, and that can only be achieved through a certain length of text. Quite like with some series where the more you watch it, the more you enjoy it because you become attached to the characters. Which is why I never felt like there's too much text in F/SN or G-senjou.

Clannad on the other hand... Well sometimes I feel some scenes repeat themselves and end up being pointless.

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Stole the words right out of my mouth. G-senjou no maou I felt had way to much unnecessary text. I really wish Visual novels would follow a more laconic writing style sometimes, it worked for Earnest Hemingway, I don't see why it can't work for a games narrative.

Because it's not a game. It's a book. Some do dredge on for a little longer than needed but people underestimate how much slicing apart narrative and character development can mean to the detriment of a VN.

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Well, I don't feel the same way. One of the big point about VNs is the huge character development, and that can only be achieved through a certain length of text. Quite like with some series where the more you watch it, the more you enjoy it because you become attached to the characters. Which is why I never felt like there's too much text in F/SN or G-senjou.

Clannad on the other hand... Well sometimes I feel some scenes repeat themselves and end up being pointless.

I agree that a lot of text is needed to develop character, but that does not mean you should add unnecessary content just for the sake of having it there. The scenes that I felt were dragged on in G-Senjou were the action scenes, (not scenes where a character was getting particularly developed). For example,

*Semi-spoiler* The scene where Tsubaki was chasing after Maou for the brief case was defiantly dragged out. They could have cut out half the content in that scene and it still would have accomplished just as much. That scene also made me cringe at how unrealistic it was. If I remember correctly there was a part where Maou himself was running around after switching the brief cases. There is no way in hell someone in his position in the underworld would partake in a grunt level task like that. The unneeded extension of that scene, as well as how unrealistic it was is what made me really hate that scene, and other scenes alike int he story.*End spoiler*

My point is not that a long story is bad if most words in it are crucial to the overall work, but when you add unnecessary dialogue or actions when something could have been ended much sooner and still have accomplished just as much, then that is nothing else but poor writing. I don't mean to sound like I hated G-Senjou, I thought that overall it was a rather good VN, but despite me overall enjoying it is not going to stop me from saying that some scenes were poorly written.

Because it's not a game. It's a book. Some do dredge on for a little longer than needed but people underestimate how much slicing apart narrative and character development can mean to the detriment of a VN.

You're basically arguing my point by saying it is a book. A book is to be judged on writing, and when you add unnecessary plot twists that didn't really change the characters situation or position by much, then that is bad writing. And if G-senjou is to be looked at as a book, (which I do treat it as) then I will criticize the places it had poor writing. Just to clarify one last time, a long story is not inherently bad or good; it is only bad if it had unnecessary and unpolished scenes, and is good if most of its content was necessary for character development, or the plot. I would also like to say before anyone replies to this. That I excuse all comedy scenes from my criticism. I though most of the comedy scenes served their purpose of lightening the mood at times, and usually succeeded at being funny.

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You're basically arguing my point by saying it is a book. A book is to be judged on writing, and when you add unnecessary plot twists that didn't really change the characters situation or position by much, then that is bad writing. And if G-senjou is to be looked at as a book, (which I do treat it as) then I will criticize the places it had poor writing. Just to clarify one last time, a long story is not inherently bad or good; it is only bad if it had unnecessary and unpolished scenes, and is good if most of its content was necessary for character development, or the plot. I would also like to say before anyone replies to this. That I excuse all comedy scenes from my criticism. I though most of the comedy scenes served their purpose of lightening the mood at times, and usually succeeded at being funny.

See, when I think G-Senjou, the only thing that really comes up as 'useless' are the side-routes which are almost entirely pointless and almost unanimously make the game better if you ignore them entirely.

The example you brought up with the chase-scene is a fairly good example of a relavent scene with too much padding. I don't really consider it useless, but it's definitely stretched rather thin. Yet I just entirely disagree with G-Senjou being plagued with these scenes, so it might be simple difference of opinion as to what counts as padding when it gets to the core, which could kind of make this whole conversation a bit redundant.

Also, about the comedy scenes; I'm not sure on that. Truthfully, when looking at G-Senjou as a book, I find the comedy scenes entirely pointless. I don't think G-Senjou is dark enough to warrant a mood pick-me-up in the slightest, but I feel like the game would have been harmed without them simply because they were enjoyable as they were happening.

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Well, I don't feel the same way. One of the big point about VNs is the huge character development, and that can only be achieved through a certain length of text. Quite like with some series where the more you watch it, the more you enjoy it because you become attached to the characters. Which is why I never felt like there's too much text in F/SN or G-senjou.

Clannad on the other hand... Well sometimes I feel some scenes repeat themselves and end up being pointless.

I agree completely. Besides, "too much text" is relative. If I'm reading a good plot, unless it REALLY is EXACT repetition (what I've only seen in in Shikkoku no Sharnoth, and the game was still good), I don't mind god-sized visual novels with infinite chunks of text. Okay, maybe that was too much, but the point are:

1. There is no overly long text in overly good stories, as long as the author hass the creativity to finish the plot when he should, it should be as long as it takes.

2. Maybe, for those who consider a VN to have "too much text" are either not enjoying what they are reading at the moment or their tolerance is outright low. Sometimes, you gotta make an effort to read a little more, then the rest comes by naturaly.

My keyboard is dyslexic

Edited by Sieg
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1. There is no overly long text in overly good stories, as long as the author has the creativity to finish the plot when he should, it should be as long as it takes.

I don't think you read what I said here, since the point you bring up I actually kinda agreed with. See:

Just to clarify one last time, a long story is not inherently bad or good; it is only bad if it had unnecessary and unpolished scenes, and is good if most of its content was necessary for character development, or the plot.

My argument is that unnecessary text is bad, this is true for both short and long works. Only including necessary content in a story is not going to force it to be short, it is only limited by the writers skills and imagination of successively deeming what is necessary for their story. Now in all honesty I have not read Ulysses by James Joyce, but it would not be considered one of the finest written books in the English language if it had unnecessary, chapters, paragraphs, or even sentences. And Ulysses is over 700+ pages depending on which edition your reading, obviously not a short story. Before I say more, I think Ulysses does a perfect job proving my point that a polished, well written story does not have to be short.

Participating in this little debate I started really thinking about what separates Visual Novels from conventional books in terms of content. Now while I still stand by all the points I made, I have come to realize their is a difference between Life-stories, and Stories in general. Good stories should have deeper and more thematic content in them. A good story is a story you don't just finish once your done, but rather one you have to digest and analyze. A Good life story, (Which is the category I place VNs in) should serve as a magnify glass into a characters life and the characters around him/her. In general VN's progress chronologically day by day, and rarely will skip large gaps of time. For example you won't generally play in the perspective of a kid, and then suddenly the story skips to when the child is an adult or adolescent, (unless its a flash back). Good VN's generally also have a theme that focus around the monotony of life. So because VNs generally focus around the monotony of life it is natural for their narrative to be longer then most other genres of stories. However, even using this as an excuse I still think a well written VN should try to condense its content when it can, and should avoid scenes that don't serve to develop the characters or the overall theme of the story.

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My argument is that unnecessary text is bad, this is true for both short and long works. Only including necessary content in a story is not going to force it to be short, it is only limited by the writers skills and imagination of successively deeming what is necessary for their story. Now in all honesty I have not read Ulysses by James Joyce, but it would not be considered one of the finest written books in the English language if it had unnecessary, chapters, paragraphs, or even sentences. And Ulysses is over 700+ pages depending on which edition your reading, obviously not a short story. Before I say more, I think Ulysses does a perfect job proving my point that a polished, well written story does not have to be short.

Participating in this little debate I started really thinking about what separates Visual Novels from conventional books in terms of content. Now while I still stand by all the points I made, I have come to realize their is a difference between Life-stories, and Stories in general. Good stories should have deeper and more thematic content in them. A good story is a story you don't just finish once your done, but rather one you have to digest and analyze. A Good life story, (Which is the category I place VNs in) should serve as a magnify glass into a characters life and the characters around him/her. In general VN's progress chronologically day by day, and rarely will skip large gaps of time. For example you won't generally play in the perspective of a kid, and then suddenly the story skips to when the child is an adult or adolescent, (unless its a flash back). Good VN's generally also have a theme that focus around the monotony of life. So because VNs generally focus around the monotony of life it is natural for their narrative to be longer then most other genres of stories. However, even using this as an excuse I still think a well written VN should try to condense its content when it can, and should avoid scenes that don't serve to develop the characters or the overall theme of the story.

I do actually agree with a lot of what you say, truthfully, but I don't think all VN's can be put under a single category of story-telling. It almost sounded like you said VN's by default can't be good stories because of the skeleton used to make them. This framework doesn't decide what thematic elements are used and what the writing direction is going to be. Chareges will make this framework into a whole experience, sure, but even then I find even them to be too broad to compare them to eachother under the same category. Would you honestly tell me that Fate/Stay Night, MVA and Little Busters are all the same VN but with different genres? I don't think you would, but placing them underneath the same category can lead to comparisons of apples to oranges. The medium doesn't define the content. Imo, ever.

Also, while I do agree that everything should try to trim/condense, what is considered 'useless padding' and excess is highly, highly relative. Not everyone will find relevance in things you might, and sometimes people will find even the smallest character interaction neccessary. It's an incredibly subjective flaw.

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