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Fuwanovel StarCraft Thread


zhurai

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Check the herO vs Zest pvp in TB's tournament, it was probably the best pvp series i've ever seen

To be honest I hate any matchup with protoss in it.

 

edit:

that said what I've seen from PvP _IS_ better than WoL4gatederpnessstupidity but sorrynotafanoftheirmatches

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What mirror match ups do you guys find the most boring/interesting? I think zvz is the most interesting despite everyone else disliking it. It's volatile so things can change so quickly and I think that makes zvz more enjoyable to watch. or... it's my biased towards zerg. :P

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What mirror match ups do you guys find the most boring/interesting? I think zvz is the most interesting despite everyone else disliking it. It's volatile so things can change so quickly and I think that makes zvz more enjoyable to watch. or... it's my biased towards zerg. :P

pvp - boring

(pvz - boring)

(pvt - stupid)

 

zvz - okay ish, when swarmhost turtle isn't used (aka stephano). that said I did play zerg in WoL.  I like the ling bling stage (and muta) but then once roach vs roach happens then it just becomes less volatile and exciting to watch than ling bling.  although one who drones too much can lose.   Swarmhost turtle is stupid

zvt - okay ish atm although mutas atm do make lategame situations look silly honestly.   mech vs swarmhost/muta stupidity is really stupid to watch

zvp - see pvz 

[i dislike swarmhosts. actually really badly designed]

tvt - it's okay ish to watch. but you'll have to understand it a bit more to enjoy it

tvz - see zvt

tvp - see pvt

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I love PvP. The slightest mistake will fuck you up entirely. I always loved how protoss, which, at least in WoL, was always the slowest race and typically the defender in the early game, became so aggressive and frantic in PvP.

I also love TvT. There's just constant action, drops everywhere.

ZvZ is my least favourite mirror. In my experience, games are just incredibly samey. Lings --> Banes --> Muta --> Infestor. Micro for victory.

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ZvZ is my least favourite mirror. In my experience, games are just incredibly samey. Lings --> Banes --> Muta --> Infestor. Micro for victory.

The reason I love zvz is the micro. Anyone can learn how to make good builds and macro is wonderful to take you up from a starting point but micro separates the amazing people from the good and zvz just shows that micro put into use.

 

[i dislike swarmhosts. actually really badly designed]

I get you. I normally enjoy how fast paced the zerg playstyle is and the introduction of swarm hosts just takes that away. I love the viper though. Probably the best unit from HOTS.

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I love PvP. The slightest mistake will fuck you up entirely. I always loved how protoss, which, at least in WoL, was always the slowest race and typically the defender in the early game, became so aggressive and frantic in PvP.

I also love TvT. There's just constant action, drops everywhere.

ZvZ is my least favourite mirror. In my experience, games are just incredibly samey. Lings --> Banes --> Muta --> Infestor. Micro for victory.

To be serious if ZvZ stayed on ling bling for a prolonged time like how it was back in the day, then the slightest mistake WILL screw you up even worse than every single matchup

 

early game TvT is extremely unforgiving

 

so yes, every mirror match-up is the same. however there is a stabilization point in both (e.g. when Tanks come out in TvT and when the tiers above ling/bling kick in @ZvZ.

that said TvT can be very crazy when you factor in bio based doom drops that basically doesn't give a crap about turrets 

 

that said WoL PvP was EVEN MORE volatile than HotS.   the MSC actually slowed down PvP somewhat, and the pylon not being able to warp in on high ground basically killed 4gate anyways. 

[EDIT: What I mean here is the most dangerous variants of the 4gate]

 

The reason I love zvz is the micro. Anyone can learn how to make good builds and macro is wonderful to take you up from a starting point but micro separates the amazing people from the good and zvz just shows that micro put into use.

 

I get you. I normally enjoy how fast paced the zerg playstyle is and the introduction of swarm hosts just takes that away. I love the viper though. Probably the best unit from HOTS.

 

to be honest micro isn't really anything, whereas the best players are the ones that can multitask and micro their units AND macro at the same time/hitting their build correctly.

 

if you just put 100% of your energy microing, while it looks cool, it still doesn't mean you're really good at the game (as you're honestly prioritizing the wrong thing)

 

yeah, the viper is pretty nice positioning based spellcaster unit, although defilers ftw.

on another note GSL code s started.

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to be honest micro isn't really anything, whereas the best players are the ones that can multitask and micro their units AND macro at the same time/hitting their build correctly.

 

if you just put 100% of your energy microing, while it looks cool, it still doesn't mean you're really good at the game (as you're honestly prioritizing the wrong thing)

It also depends how far behind you are and the position you're in though. TaeJa was more micro focused and he won quite a few of his games based off almost pure Micro (during engagements) from a really bad position. The multitasking of the pros is insane though. Watching them stream just makes you feel bad.

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yes it depends on how far behind you are

 

It also depends how far behind you are though. TaeJa was more micro focused and he won quite a few of his games based off almost pure Micro (during engagements) from a really bad position. The multitasking of the pros is insane though. Watching them stream just makes you feel bad.

in which matchup/link to games? because for example if you somehow turtle in TvP and they don't attack you and you build up to the ghost viking deathball then for example, yes that'll make sense as it still comes down to pure micro (killing ht/collosi, or killing the observer and cloaking your ghosts and killing everything)

 

TvZ that would somewhat make sense as you can try to drop everywhere and hope the zerg doesn't use their lead to make mass muta/expo and actually protect their expos (but if there's only 2-3 spines there and there's a double medivac drop... but then again people don't make that many spines as zerg as you're utilizing the mobility of your army)

that said if the zerg is using roach hydra and won, then there might be more spines around... but roach hydra is such a snowball based + deathball based army that it sounds really weird that whoever it was didn't get big enough a lead to tech to vipers, push by killing the aoe (as you need tanks vs roach hydra).

 

TvT it makes no sense as if you're ahead in tank count the only way is to drop the terran everywhere, but there'll be only 3 places you can 1-2 medivac drop multitask everywhere (main/nat/3rd) and there's usually 1-2 sensor towers once the 3rd goes up anyways, and if you're significantly ahead you just spam turrets in the main and rally to your nat/3rd (depending on the map). drop anywhere else with 1-2 medivac drops and your drop will probably die because of the PF's 

otherwise the micro would just be repositioning your whole army and try to outposition the terran, but if you're behind you have less tanks, and they would have more money to make sensor towers so there'll be less surprises.

 

 

ofcourse that's assuming the players are equal in skill and in the correct mindset (rather than just becoming lazy or losing to well... their own mind/mindset/etc)

 

 

EDIT:

 

also this is also noting the fact that Taeja still has to macro while microing himself, so I'm not sure what you're refuting here. if he didn't macro very well and just microed then he has no followup army and they can remax (as they have the potential to remax as higher income = can get more structures for example), while taeja literally has less income

 

that's if you're pretty far behind, if you mean by "close but somewhat behind" then this obviously changes it slightly, but its not like he gets to ignore his macro while he micros during those situations unless he literally has no buildings able to produce anything.

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yes it depends on how far behind you are

 

in which matchup/link to games?

 

that's if you're pretty far behind, if you mean by "close but somewhat behind" then this obviously changes it slightly, but its not like he gets to ignore his macro while he micros during those situations unless he literally has no buildings able to produce anything.

It's mostly tvp or tvz but never tvt. Also I have found that his micro is almost always early game or late game so that might be something. Anyway I think what I was trying to say at the start was that to be a lot better the first thing you need to do is to develop macro first but what separates a good player from a great player is the ability to integrate micro into gameplay. Sorry if you misunderstood that.

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PvP is very interesting, but also a crapfest. Like... it can be fun watching the tosses roll the dice to see which build wins, but I prefer my finals without back-to-back in-base proxies...

That said, toss is my fav race, so it's always fun to get THE MOST PROTOSS for my time ^^

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queued for a 4v4

the protoss/terran on my team got cannon rushed, couldn't do much (with speedling support/etc) he left

the terran left afterwards but I noticed he didn't pull anything when he saw the pylons and he um... didn't have stim at all (and he was massing marauders for whatever reason. left

I was like welp, just me (T) and another guy (Z)
 

so... 2v4

 

on the other team....

the terran was going bio+thor (wut? ok) 

zerg player was going ling/bane/muta

protoss player #1 was going for mass vr's

and the other protoss player (#2) went for mass tempests

 

well I was mainly handling the zerg/terran and the zerg on my team was dealing with the protoss for whatever reason (with mass muta)

drop everywhere and mass expoing whenever I could cause

actually protoss player #2 was mainly just doing mass tempest+mass cannon turtle rofl....
eventually I overmade medivacs so I let them follow the mutas around (medivac powered mutas ^_^) which was sort of amusing

 

went into ravens cause tempests are sorta annoying otherwise and then basically went mass bio + (1fact thor) and like 6 starports pumping viking/medivacs/ravens depending what I needed

lol 2v4ing and winning....

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Regarding MLG Anaheim:

Seeing Polt lose to Jaedong in person at Lone Star Clash and now this on stream...

:(

Polt's TvP is incredibly aggressive and he doesn't play ghost viking as well

Taeja for example would be better matched vs Trap's style.

but I should note ghost viking + bio is actually pretty hard to control considering you can't have the ghosts+vikings on the same hotkey as the bio

 

That said Maru's style for example is relatively closer to Polt's where he just multitasks you to death, but falls on his face against the Protoss who can defend it. 

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Polt's TvP is incredibly aggressive and he doesn't play ghost viking as well

Taeja for example would be better matched vs Trap's style.

but I should note ghost viking + bio is actually pretty hard to control considering you can't have the ghosts+vikings on the same hotkey as the bio

 

That said Maru's style for example is relatively closer to Polt's where he just multitasks you to death, but falls on his face against the Protoss who can defend it. 

Yeah I can agree with what you said about their styles. They look like a lot of fun and I like that style the most though. And both Maru and Polt were Prime terrans so :wub:

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