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Oh boy, I probably shouldn't even start this thread. If things get out of control, I have no qualms with the moderators locking it. 

 

So basically I wanted to hear others opinions on the whole GamerGate controversy. A LOT of people have voiced their views on it, and I consider myself to be on the pro-GG side. We want there to be ethics in games journalism, and do not condone any form of harassment. 

 

It's been said that female developers have been driven from their homes due to GG, but there hasn't been any evidence linking it to them. Harassment definitely exists, but to blame thousands of people based on the actions of a handful doesn't seem fair in my opinion. People like Anita Sarkeesian love playing victim, and they interpret any form of criticism immediately as harassment due to their gender. I have to say that this is the Internet, and you're going to inevitably run into trolls and nasty people. But to overly generalize and blame ALL GAMERS on this issue? Use common sense here. No one cared about the death threats sent towards Jack Thompson when he criticized the industry. Hell, even Metal Gear's Hideo Kojima received death threats when he initially stated that he would not be directing MGS4. These people didn't paint themselves as martyrs. Can you imagine how many threats politicians like Obama get each day? They suck it up, realize that not everyone will like them, and move on with their lives.

 

Even if we ignore all of that, it's been proven that corruption exists within games journalism. If you don't know anything about the controversy, these videos do a good job of explaining it.

 

 

This article also sums up the events well.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/12/gamergate-part-i-sex-lies-and-gender-gam/

 

The Huffington Post had a great discussion on it too.

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/gamergate-and-women-in-video-game-culture/543c686878c90a71ff000157

 

I expect there to be a lot of discussion on this thread, so I strongly encourage things to be civil and respectful. Again, if things get out of control, feel free to lock it.

 

Thanks. 

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The following is my view on this:

 

#GG stands for a good cause, but its concerns are baseless and some GG-favoring evidence does not even exist. There are too many sexist pigs using the hashtag GG, to the point that calling yourself pro-GG is unfortunately affliating yourself with a big bunch of misogynists, and therefore, GG can never achieve its goal to have non-corrupt gaming journalism(for which they sould not have concerns in the first place. I despise people that use GG for misogyny and harassment, and I despise people that write off GG as a misogynist movement.

I'm on neither side. Had I seen proof of GG's ( I mean the half that cares about gaming journalism) claims, namely the conflicts of interest- some of the alleged reviews of Depression Quest that were supposedly showing a conflict of interest do not even exist.

 

Want good gaming journalism? 

 

Research for yourself, decide to trust gaming press or not, but do yourself a favor and abandon GG, it's a ship sunk by the mutiny of the sexist pigs using #GG.

 

I was a GG'er before, but it's best to see both sides of the argument: Lurk both Gfaqs (pro-GG) and NeoGAF (anti-GG) threads.

 

Since there is mutual harassment and people generalizing the opposite side at each end, since there are sexist pigs using the term GamerGate and also those that write off all GG'ers as sexist, I pity and resent both sides equally.

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yes GG was initally formed as a thing to try to reform the gaming press [good], but right now the whole identity of GG is sorta tainted by the people using it misogyny [bad]... While personally I don't think everyone in GG is sexist or so (but idk), the portion that's unfortunately the loudest and most scruitinzed is the ones promoting misogyny.

 

I should say that blanket labelling everyone in said organization (without understanding/looking indepth into GG) as sexist is extremely wrong, and those that go the "extra step" by also harassing those that are in GG, for example on the twitter hashtag timeline, some has posted that "everyone in there should be either put in jail or killed" are even worse.

 

While I don't know what portion of GG is either sexist or not (if it's the majority or not), but the most active "part" LOOKS like the sexist, therefore the mainstream media (who is also just fishing for stories, mind you), labels everyone there as mysogynic. Obviously this is wrong however but that's beside the point. The hashtag/group name is incredibly tainted at this point. (But it should be noted that people ARE using GG for harassment purposes)

 

However I personally don't think I have enough information on either group, as I just mainly read about it in the gamedev blogs and several other websites. Also I sorta hate politics. (thus I'm not really interested in reading too much into it)

Personally I just think everyone should get along *shrug*

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I think GamerGate was never going to be successful and so I was never interested in it.

 

I think trivialising  the harassment of female devs is a mistake.

 

I think if GamerGate didn't want to be associated with misogynists, they should have made more effort to distance themselves from those comments. I have no sympathy for the group.

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iv been following this pretty closely  and while many of the supporters or claimed participants of #gamergate are using this as stage for anti radical feminism, or men's rights activism (not that i agree with either side of that particular set of arguments i think both sides there are way off base).there are many valid points brought up and finding the info is not that difficult. the big problem at this point a lot of the tweets, Facebook posts, YouTube videos etc. that was posted by the anti gamer gate side have been removed shortly after being posted. there's screen caps and mirrors or cached copies from the way back machine but these aren't the originals so you can claim even if its not true that they were modified or created wholesale. besides this unreliability of the chain of evidence there is also behavior being performed by both sides that are purposely baiting. you go to 4chan and stir up things your gonna get threats,trolling, harassment and doxing. this shouldn't be a surprise to any one who uses the internet.personally i lean towards the gamergate side of the argument only slightly and thats due to the corruption in journalism, regardless of the subject the journalist is writing about needs to be free of prejudice and favoritism (though why should game media be any different then mainstream media that performs similar practices).

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Misogyny is such a buzzword now. Extreme feminists throw this term at anyone that disagrees with them, regardless and will cry harassment. I personally take such accusations with a grain of salt. It's essentially childish name calling that people use as an automatic defense mechanism.

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Gamergate is simply what people came up with when they discovered the gaming industry (namely gaming journalism) also has corruption and is not some holy land.

Welcome to real life.

 

Here's some wise words:

Be skeptical. No matter what you see, hear or read, even from the most trustworthy sources you know, always, and I mean always be skeptical.

 

I thought Gamergate was just another movement for something that's been going on forever but is just now getting into the spotlight and it will soon fade away because everything in this world is corruptable, including the gaming industry, and a hashtag is certainly not what's going to stop it.

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Misogyny is such a buzzword now. Extreme feminists throw this term at anyone that disagrees with them, regardless and will cry harassment. I personally take such accusations with a grain of salt. It's essentially childish name calling that people use as an automatic defense mechanism.

well...there has been death threats used in many of these campaigns (whether or not they were actually GG or not), so in _at least_ those cases it _is_ sexism/misogyny.

 

well whatever. I have enough crap to deal with right now, I'd rather get a job than research about which side is right or how wrong each (or both) sides are *shrug*

 

so w/e

 

 

Gamergate is simply what people came up with when they discovered the gaming industry also has corruption and is not some holy land.

Welcome to real life.

 

Here's some wise words:

Be skeptical. No matter what you see, hear or read, even from the most trustworthy sources you know, always, and I mean always be skeptical.

no shit, almost all organizations have corruption to some degree. I mean look at the three letter acronyms

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 No one cared about the death threats sent towards Jack Thompson when he criticized the industry. Hell, even Metal Gear's Hideo Kojima received death threats when he initially stated that he would not be directing MGS4. These people didn't paint themselves as martyrs. Can you imagine how many threats politicians like Obama get each day? They suck it up, realize that not everyone will like them, and move on with their lives.

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GamerGate is important because it affects how people view games. It's no secret that reviews strongly affect a large part of a game's sales. If there's corruption involved, that's illegal and unethical.

 

More importantly though, this whole controversy has only further driven the stereotype that all gamers are fat, pale, white, and xenophobic virgins living in their mothers' basements. Just as gaming was becoming more "mainstream," we have crap like this pushing everything back.

 

Make no mistake though, GamerGate is bringing to light a discussion that needs to be talked about. I would personally say to continue to enjoy your hobby as you've done in the past. Whether or not this whole controversy will actually accomplish anything though remains to be seen.

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GamerGate is important because it affects how people view games. It's no secret that reviews strongly affect a large part of a game's sales. If there's corruption involved, that's illegal and unethical.

 

More importantly though, this whole controversy has only further driven the stereotype that all gamers are fat, pale, white, and xenophobic virgins living in their mothers' basements. Just as gaming was becoming more "mainstream," we have crap like this pushing everything back.

 

Make no mistake though, GamerGate is bringing to light a discussion that needs to be talked about. I would personally say to continue to enjoy your hobby as you've done in the past. Whether or not this whole controversy will actually accomplish anything though remains to be seen.

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Reviews by nature are an opinion. Reviews can easily be bought and sold. It isn't fraud, or illegal. It might be unethical, but it is in no way illegal and it shouldn't be. The gamer cannot blame a reviewer if the gamer buys a bad game. The reviewer did not force him to. Using more than one source is important.

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#gamergate was not and is not about changing the perception the public has about games. it was about corruption in one form or another in the gaming industry and its media . some people involved have used it as a platform to push there personal ideologies and thats fine, but when one side pushes a ideology publicly they will draw attention of the opposing ideological viewpoint. this whole challenging the perception of gaming as a hobby and media didn't happen till the sarkeesian drama started up about her being harassed  and the people who bought in to that came riding to the rescue. these things happen people harass others, and people defend others. this will not have a long term effect on the perception of the public on video games or gaming as a hobby. and even if by some miracle of chance it does have a slight impact on the perception of gaming as a hobby who gives a shit , they will still make the games people want to play because its a big money industry now. no one will take our games away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also @reviews: The only time those reviews are illegal is if the dev/someone paid for them to do it, and the review/er didn't disclose this fact then it's illegal under FCC. Otherwise... don't use that reviewer (also don't use just one)  -- Same reason you don't use only one news source when looking for information.

 

 

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Make no mistake though, GamerGate is bringing to light a discussion that needs to be talked about. I would personally say to continue to enjoy your hobby as you've done in the past. Whether or not this whole controversy will actually accomplish anything though remains to be seen.

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Ummm... corruption and conflict of interest have been endemic to gaming media since the nineties... take a look at the old Game Informer review of Dragon Force, for example... the handle of the reviewer is Reiner, the name of one of the generals is changed to Reiner, lol. 

 

Anywhere where there is money, there is corruption.  Anyone who is fooled by reviews and previews into playing a game only have themselves to blame. 

 

Also, I think all misogynists should be crucified (tying rather than nailing)... though I also think that people should stop caring what other people say about or to them on social media like Twitter or Facebook...

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I'm kind of with batman here. I don't know much about whatever this is, and I'm not a huge gamer, but when I want to get a game I just talk to people or look up videos if I'm concerned about looking it. I think the game review community is stupid, so that doesn't help me take this very seriously /:

When I first saw this my reaction was something akin to "what!? Unethical business practices!? No one would ever do those things for money... for sure..."

And I don't think I've ever met s misogynist in my life, including people I've talked to on the internet. At least as far as I can tell...

I'm probably misinformed or have an unethical approach to the issue or whatever, but honestly I just wanted to say how dumb it sounds from am outside perspective. Makes me feel like I should be angry at something but damn people: make video games and then sell them if they are good. When did it get so confusing? Board games aren't like this! (Laughs)

But yea, I'm dumb and all but it feels good to ignorantly ragepost sometimes.

Conclusion: the drama is dumb, the reviewers are dumb, the system is dumb, the reviews themselves are dumb, waffles are smart, I'm extra dumb, but most if all this whole thing is really really dumb. Screw everything. Except waffles.

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Harassment exists and people are sometimes just straight up assholes. As long as there is money to be made or gain to be made with low amount of risk, some people will do it.

I can't really find this very serious, as it seems just overblown drama. Sexist and misogynist accusations usually drag any valid improvements to society into the dirt..

 

If I am going to be honest.. I don't find game review sites good in the first place. So much bad reviews around I have stopped caring. It's like reading book reviews on GoodReads. It feels like trying to search for gold in the Dead Marshes of Mordor.

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I'm happy a large number of people are discussing and bringing up what is an actual issue. I'm not happy with how they're doing it. Gaming and nerd culture as a whole has been showing itself to be rather immature in recent years and this whole fiasco just proves it. The amount of actual discussion being had versus the amount of people crying wolf or calling out whatever they dislike is just disgusting. It's one of the reasons why I steer clear of this sort of stuff like the plague a majority of the time.

 

Corruption is a legitimate issue. Lack of female representation and blatant misogyny is an issue. People playing victim when they aren't is an issue. And they all deserve to be talked about and handled in a mature and adult fashion. If gamers can't do that then quite frankly I don't think they deserve to. There's such a prevalence in immature, sexist behavior or outright stupidity that it kills any actual potential things like Gamergate could've had. This whole thing feels like a bad joke.

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Corruption is a legitimate issue. Lack of female representation and blatant misogyny is an issue. People playing victim when they aren't is an issue. And they all deserve to be talked about and handled in a mature and adult fashion. If gamers can't do that then quite frankly I don't think they deserve to. There's such a prevalence in immature, sexist behavior or outright stupidity that it kills any actual potential things like Gamergate could've had. This whole thing feels like a bad joke.

 

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