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H-Scenes. Really necessary?


Tay

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Okay, haven't read all the comments so I just state my opinion in fear of repeating:

I generally skip the H-Scenes, as in most cases they tend to be unneccesary breaks to the storylines. I was raging, when the first of this scene came during Fate - it put me totally out of the mood, seeing Rin and Saber acting that 'out of character'.

I also have to point out, that even in movies I find sex scenes irrelevant

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There really is no need to show you evry second of them doing it from fothplay to climax as if you wouldn't get a point otherwise.

Precisely this. I can think of very few (if any) H-scenes that wouldn't have been more tasteful and just as impactful if they had just done a fade-to-black or something. Take Clannad for instance.

Would Nagisa's story be better if in the middle of After Story you had a graphic sex scene between her and Tomoya rather than the line "Nagisa and I spent the night together"? No. I think it'd be super out of character and rather awkward (Like most H-Scenes actualy.)

Apologies if somebody has said this already, I haven't read the whole thread.

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Okay, haven't read all the comments so I just state my opinion in fear of repeating:

I generally skip the H-Scenes, as in most cases they tend to be unneccesary breaks to the storylines. I was raging, when the first of this scene came during Fate - it put me totally out of the mood, seeing Rin and Saber acting that 'out of character'.

I also have to point out, that even in movies I find sex scenes irrelevant

 

Pretty much same thing I did everytime I'm on the sex scenes~

It's not entirely necessary maybe....but without it the game feels like MEH......

 

Probably because putting up h-scenes gives me some target to shot down in reading all those stories, some feelings when you found out a "treasure" in the end and a little bit sense of accomplishment~

 

I've tried with some VN games without H (Say like....planetarian), it doesn't makes me excited since all I did is just reading some good stories (though I'm bawling on the end of planetarian and cursing due to.....*spoiler* *spoiler*)

 

So yea the necessity of H stuff in game is like...seasoning? Stuff like you'll probably skip but when it's gone, you'll feel like something is missing.

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So yea the necessity of H stuff in game is like...seasoning? Stuff like you'll probably skip but when it's gone, you'll feel like something is missing.

I think that's a better way to put it than calling it the "treasure" at the end. I was talking to a friend of mine about Katawa Shoujo months ago and he described the H parts as his "reward" for reading the story, and I think that just really rubbed me the wrong way.

 

I feel as if the story should be the reward in and of itself, not something you have to trudge through in order to get to pictures of naked girls. If you go into a VN solely for the H, it's like you're going in for the wrong reasons. I understand the allure of having that goal in mind, but I still think the story is always more important.

 

So seasoning makes sense. It adds spice, but it shouldn't be the main attraction. 

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In certain VN's, primarily those that already have good storytelling, I think the H-scenes are their own form of distinct characterization. Before everyone looks at me funny ---

Everyone has different tastes when it comes to sex. Everyone puts a different emphasis on the various aspects of it, which is almost like a person's own signature. Is this person a passionate lover? Are they more of a giver than a taker? Are they rough? Do they like extended foreplay? Do they have habits ( like random bitting )?

Realistically, people are complex and deep. A person who seems gentle on the outside could be an entirely different sort of beast once the clothes come off.

VN's are similar, yet obviously not. We see the public( and sometimes private-but-not-sex-private )side of these character's traits -- their mannerisms, they hopes, dreams, their love(s) - and that's the 'normal scenes' for most VN's. Then we get ... a few ( sometimse a lot ) of panels of an h-scene.

An h-scene, in GOOD VN's, is usually just the act of expanding upon that and showing another side to that character. Even the position can be demonstrative of a person's personality - even more so is how 'attentive' those characters are afterwords. We only get so long of reading an h-scene before it ends, so the different positions, different things said, different angles, are usually a way to convey that both didn't just...do their business and call it done ( although: I have seen a few VN's where that's all the h-scenes, early on, were. Quick, to the point, and very loveless. But they were meant to be. ) There was more INVOLVED there, one way or another.


On the flip side to this, a few VN's tend to edge against that and have progression in their h-scene's. An early h-scene could just be...rough, flippant, distant. "Casual", if you will. But as the story progresses, the h-scene's become more involved, more loving, more tender ( or the opposite - start out loving and turn distant, but I have only seen that ONCE, and it was in an Otome ). As that character 'grows' and experiences things with their partner(s), the h-scene's themselves change. There's a few instances where I've seen this ( a VN with more than a few h-scene's -- at first I thought it was just going to be pure, all out h-scene after h-scene, but it actually had a good story, and each h-scene depicted some measure of 'trust' and 'growth' in the characters).


The entire premise of the tsundere-archetype is built upon that same principle: a character who could initially start out cold or hostile, then warm up over time. And 'giving yourself' to someone else is one of the big acts of "trust" ( I say thise loosely because that definition changes based on each individual ) that generally comes with life, and would it really be the same if you're just TOLD how much this girl loves this guy -- rather than see it? If there wasn't ANY build up, if there was NO sexual tension, but these two characters 'loved' each other, would it "feel" right? Would it convey that same sense of emotion, trust, and connection? In some stories: it can. And does it well. But in many, it's the 'it finally happened' moment. Especially in stories that don't have an antagonist or challenge to overcome ( mostly romcom's -- which makes it hard for me to read them lately ).

The opposite question also rings true. If these two characters constantly eyed each other, held hands, kissed, came -so- close to going the distance...but never did, would it feel REAL? If there was never that moment of, "THEY FINALLY GOT TOGETHER" after dating for two years -- would it cheapen the entire experience? Going through a 40 hour playthrough of a VN, watching these two characters almost lose each other over and over, struggle to be together, struggle just to survive, or struggle to remain faithful to each other, and finally get a moment to themselves -- wouldn't it be MORE strange that nothing happened between them?

( Note an exception: there are VN's where characters, male and female, do everything with a pulse -- which is, in and of itself, a statement of that character's personality. Maybe a traumatic past that they just want to 'block out'? Maybe they just enjoy it? Maybe the guy likes to 'conquer girls', which is yet another personality example? Or the opposite -- a woman who 'conquers men'. )


tl;dr:
Sometimes it's easy to tell which h-scene's are just "in there" for the sake of being in there, and which are truly expanding on the characters stories. Sometimes it's not. Usually good VN's are backed with good h-scene's that have some deeper purpose than just being 'thrown in sex'.

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i feel  kinda sad  becasue i hate  henati =-= so much and every time I  like  a noval  there always has to be  h-scenes in it -_-

and  if  I try  to look for VN  for allages it's allways not so  good <_<

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i feel  kinda sad  becasue i hate  henati =-= so much and every time I  like  a noval  there always has to be  h-scenes in it -_-

and  if  I try  to look for VN  for allages it's allways not so  good <_<

Like everything there's bad and good 18+ VNs and bad and good All Ages VNs.

Even if you're not okay with 18+ content you can always skip over it since it's not required to enjoy the story.

There's also VNs that let you turn the adult content off like Katawa Shoujo.

 

That's why my personal opinion on h-scenes is completely indeferent because they can always be skipped if one doesn't like them. For the ones that do it's just a bonus.

I don't mind h-content but i sure as hell am picky about what kind of h-content it is.

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In certain VN's, primarily those that already have good storytelling, I think the H-scenes are their own form of distinct characterization. Before everyone looks at me funny ---

Everyone has different tastes when it comes to sex. Everyone puts a different emphasis on the various aspects of it, which is almost like a person's own signature. Is this person a passionate lover? Are they more of a giver than a taker? Are they rough? Do they like extended foreplay? Do they have habits ( like random bitting )?

Realistically, people are complex and deep. A person who seems gentle on the outside could be an entirely different sort of beast once the clothes come off.

VN's are similar, yet obviously not. We see the public( and sometimes private-but-not-sex-private )side of these character's traits -- their mannerisms, they hopes, dreams, their love(s) - and that's the 'normal scenes' for most VN's. Then we get ... a few ( sometimse a lot ) of panels of an h-scene.

An h-scene, in GOOD VN's, is usually just the act of expanding upon that and showing another side to that character. Even the position can be demonstrative of a person's personality - even more so is how 'attentive' those characters are afterwords. We only get so long of reading an h-scene before it ends, so the different positions, different things said, different angles, are usually a way to convey that both didn't just...do their business and call it done ( although: I have seen a few VN's where that's all the h-scenes, early on, were. Quick, to the point, and very loveless. But they were meant to be. ) There was more INVOLVED there, one way or another.

On the flip side to this, a few VN's tend to edge against that and have progression in their h-scene's. An early h-scene could just be...rough, flippant, distant. "Casual", if you will. But as the story progresses, the h-scene's become more involved, more loving, more tender ( or the opposite - start out loving and turn distant, but I have only seen that ONCE, and it was in an Otome ). As that character 'grows' and experiences things with their partner(s), the h-scene's themselves change. There's a few instances where I've seen this ( a VN with more than a few h-scene's -- at first I thought it was just going to be pure, all out h-scene after h-scene, but it actually had a good story, and each h-scene depicted some measure of 'trust' and 'growth' in the characters).

The entire premise of the tsundere-archetype is built upon that same principle: a character who could initially start out cold or hostile, then warm up over time. And 'giving yourself' to someone else is one of the big acts of "trust" ( I say thise loosely because that definition changes based on each individual ) that generally comes with life, and would it really be the same if you're just TOLD how much this girl loves this guy -- rather than see it? If there wasn't ANY build up, if there was NO sexual tension, but these two characters 'loved' each other, would it "feel" right? Would it convey that same sense of emotion, trust, and connection? In some stories: it can. And does it well. But in many, it's the 'it finally happened' moment. Especially in stories that don't have an antagonist or challenge to overcome ( mostly romcom's -- which makes it hard for me to read them lately ).

The opposite question also rings true. If these two characters constantly eyed each other, held hands, kissed, came -so- close to going the distance...but never did, would it feel REAL? If there was never that moment of, "THEY FINALLY GOT TOGETHER" after dating for two years -- would it cheapen the entire experience? Going through a 40 hour playthrough of a VN, watching these two characters almost lose each other over and over, struggle to be together, struggle just to survive, or struggle to remain faithful to each other, and finally get a moment to themselves -- wouldn't it be MORE strange that nothing happened between them?

( Note an exception: there are VN's where characters, male and female, do everything with a pulse -- which is, in and of itself, a statement of that character's personality. Maybe a traumatic past that they just want to 'block out'? Maybe they just enjoy it? Maybe the guy likes to 'conquer girls', which is yet another personality example? Or the opposite -- a woman who 'conquers men'. )

tl;dr:

Sometimes it's easy to tell which h-scene's are just "in there" for the sake of being in there, and which are truly expanding on the characters stories. Sometimes it's not. Usually good VN's are backed with good h-scene's that have some deeper purpose than just being 'thrown in sex'.

 

That was really well said.

But sometimes I just feel that showing it was not nessecary.

In Ever17 they said, gave clues that it had happened

With tsugumi

But didn't show it and it wasn't somethingt that felt was missing

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I don't actually see anything wrong with one-two or three H-scenes in a scenario, some people want them, the rest can just push down their shift button. I don't think it's abnormal for a good story to have H-scenes, the weirder thing is that it's so tabooed.

 

Everything containing H must be rubbish has clearly been proven false. An interesting question to ask oneself is why this thought is widespread, perhaps because the connotations to real-life sex-business or just the taboo of sex as whole.

 

I think most VNs / eroges would be more unnatural and a more strict medium without the choice to include H-scenes.

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That was really well said.

But sometimes I just feel that showing it was not nessecary.

In Ever17 they said, gave clues that it had happened

With tsugumi

But didn't show it and it wasn't somethingt that felt was missing

One of the good examples where it wasn't necessary to show it. An implied connection can be just as powerful, if not more so, than actually seeing the h-scene.

Though sometimes that doesn't deliver, too. It depends on the VN itself and the build up.

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That was really well said.

But sometimes I just feel that showing it was not nessecary.

In Ever17 they said, gave clues that it had happened

With tsugumi

But didn't show it and it wasn't somethingt that felt was missing

 

Spot on. You need to be able to imply things as a writer.

 

H-Scenes can add depth to a character, that is true, but they're not really useful as scenes and therefore I don't see much purpose for them (apart from the obvious.). They're padding, it can be padding that expands characterisation, but good authors can do that in a scene which forwards the plot. It's one of my main complaints with VNs on a whole, too much padding and fluff.

 

Scenes need conflict or change, they need to service the plot in some way. H-scenes don't usually do this, and a lot of times are needless bloat.

 

Just my 2c.

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That a very interessing topic indeed.

When it comes to sexuality,let's all be clear about japanese culture here: They get REAL graphic n' have a VERY WEIRD taste even for the hornyest,weirdest ocidental guy possible. 
That translates into pretty much anything,including VN's.

I'm talking about dildo-inspired-tentacles,big-boned-monsters,pee and poop, and even all sorts of rape fetish, which is a very popular niche which i personally despise. (Role-playing or not)

Hey,it's not me guys. Is just the way  it is.

I'm not saying what is good or bad for humanity,I'm really not judging.
But their preferences really doesn't match our sexual culture. (Then again,we're not the best example,of course.)
I don't remember who commented that above,but indeed,even when it comes to VN's, it's about appealing to the oriental fanbase,of course...so it figures.

Oh,let's all remember that the porn in japan have a big blur on the ding-dongs.
I have a crazy theory that maybe that's why even anime got subverted with sex content (hentai and all those terminologies you guys sure know better than me)...it's a sexual escapism.
In hentai-ish content,everything goes. No blurs,no limits. Maybe that's why.

I really don't think sex scenes (with a good reason and a good plot to happen whitout anything too weird) ruined my experience with VN's so far. Even it gets a little bit kinky, it's all about the writing.

But i really don't miss them if the VN doesn't have any.

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Like everything there's bad and good 18+ VNs and bad and good All Ages VNs.

Even if you're not okay with 18+ content you can always skip over it since it's not required to enjoy the story.

There's also VNs that let you turn the adult content off like Katawa Shoujo.

 

That's why my personal opinion on h-scenes is completely indeferent because they can always be skipped if one doesn't like them. For the ones that do it's just a bonus.

I don't mind h-content but i sure as hell am picky about what kind of h-content it is.

 

before i can skip  it  it will  just show  infront of my eyes o__o

 and  it  will  keep showing up in  my dreams over  and over !

VN  that   can be so  great   and I want to play  the game so much but i can't take to watch one henati scenes :(

if  thay could  give  you the choice to trun the  henati scenes off  :| like Katawa Shoujo but  it's  not  allways there !

most of the  VNS  in fuwnoval are 18+ and  they  look so great and  I can't  play them in the end !

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before i can skip  it  it will  just show  infront of my eyes o__o

 and  it  will  keep showing up in  my dreams over  and over !

VN  that   can be so  great   and I want to play  the game so much but i can't take to watch one henati scenes :(

if  thay could  give  you the choice to trun the  henati scenes off  :| like Katawa Shoujo but  it's  not  allways there !

most of the  VNS  in fuwnoval are 18+ and  they  look so great and  I can't  play them in the end !

Well that's true the CG is still there but if you just press shift or ctrl and look away for a bit it shouldn't be too bad.

Hoshizora no Memoria for example is a great story in my opinion and i cried and it still has h-scenes. Did that ruin it? Absolutely not.

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Yeah and it's nice when H CG's and non H CG's are seperated in the CG menu.

 

Not only cause of OCD

But mixing some piece of art (in some VN's) with Sex scenes feels out of place.

 

And when i want to introduce VN's to other people I'v got to chose the one's that make a good disctinction, like fate/stay night ^^

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For a longer rant on game culture differences between Japan and US (sorry it has to be focused on one Western country) this can be read.

 

Tl;dr bloody US video games don't make it in Japan, Americans are more sensitive to sexual content in their video games.

 

My conclusion no culture is weirder than the other, I guess you can draw the parallell to H-scenes in VNs.

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For a longer rant on game culture differences between Japan and US (sorry it has to be focused on one Western country) this can be read.

 

Tl;dr bloody US video games don't make it in Japan, Americans are more sensitive to sexual content in their video games.

 

My conclusion no culture is weirder than the other, I guess you can draw the parallell to H-scenes in VNs.

Culture is a wonderful thing. I always despised how the western society (not everyone but you get the idea) in general has this weird image of Japan that it's all about hentai and then Japan also sees other cultures weirdly. We're all weird from someone else's prespective.

But despite Japan having this common stigma regarding hentai let it be noticed that its laws regarding unsafe content are very strict. Just refer to the lolicon/shota genre and you'll get the point. Also extreme forms of violence are heavily forbidden in media (not just gore but violence in general).

 

Feeling uncomfortable over H-scenes is natural and although i do enjoy some and so does my lower half it's not something i'd proudly shout about around people and for some this factor is what draws them off the eroge genre because of the social stigma sorrounding it. Unless you can feel connected to the type of content and you're used to it it's hard to enjoy h-content in general when you live in a culture where pornographic material isn't something freely discussed with everyone and a lot of people never have contact with it and then when the first time happens it's not pleasant. 

Though i'm not saying everyone should be watching porn right now i wish the stigma would die down. You don't have to like it but it doesn't mean it has to stop you from enjoying a work of fiction that doesn't revolve solely around that content (unless it's a nukige or some really dark story)

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To see them as necessary is really just the nature of humanity calling us into its depths, though we try and fight it, it's still there. Throughout the novels I have currently completed, about 80-90% have at least on of "those" scenes, and as long as it as seen as lets say a "reward", the payoff isn't particularly a bad thing. I have seen at least a few bad "rewards" in the sense of a blatant, sex-crazed, scene of lust, but really, if the scene was there as a filler of information about the love between the characters, I see no harm in it. I am however a fan of the more cute and vanilla relationships, which may give you one scene as proof of the true love the two may share on a deep, emotional level. This I believe applies to the real world in a sense as it's not an essential thing, but when it happens in a way that strengthens the love between two people, there really is no reason to deny it.

 

I may just be going on a slight rant here, and possible off topic so forgive me.

 

I just see H-scenes as a way to express the relationship in a way that most people can understand, rather than reading the beautiful lines and looking at the amazing artwork displayed at any other romantic scene (i.e. Kissing, hugging etc.).

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I don't mind them when they are justified.

 

Two characters just bumping into each other and getting excited all of a sudden, I say NO.

There must be a context and an atmosphere. 

 

And if it gives depth to character devellopement, it's all the better.

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i think the problem lies elsewhere. i myself dont think it makes the story/romance any less good, infact, it can only make it better. we live in a  society where sex is a taboo topic and most ppl probably subconsciously refrain from accepting it as a normal thing.

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H-scenes are kind of a mixed bag for me. If they get in the way of the story, kind of like what I've found in G-senjou no Maou, which is simply my opinion, then I just can't be bothered to play on despite the excellent story because I know every time I'd like to see more of a character's story when I pick her route I have to go through one every time, and seriously, it's sex, there's not alot of variation in it so it just becomes boring. And there are some VNs that prove you don't need H-scenes to be a good VN, the Galaxy Angels trilogy being my example here. Not that H-scenes are bad persay, the ones in Shinigami Kiss wa wakare no aiji fit the VN. Way I see it, they shouldn't be there if they get in the way and don't have to be to make the VN good.

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  • 5 weeks later...

I'm a man of few words, mainly because I find a pain in the ass to write a huge explanation when my native language isn't english so, let's make it short.

 

I'm completely with Meru in this.

 

I must add, though, that sex for me is the most romantic thing in the world... I wouldn't be able to have a girlfriend with whome I wouldn't be sattisfied on the sex department and I also think I should give all my effort to sattisfy my partner. Mutual and healthy sexual attraction is the foundation to any long termed relationship

 

That's why I find completely natural that VNs have H-scenes, specially on the romantic department.

 

Having said that, there are good and badly done H-scenes. One can discuss the quality of the H-scenes but banning then as some kind of inherent problem to VNs? never.

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