H-Scenes. Really necessary?

[zoom909]

Okay, here's my take FWIW:

1. I only read VNs w/ romantic emphasis, but, they dont' have to have H. Have to obtain that suspension of disbelief that gives me the feeling of falling in love with one of the heroines, that's for sure. But H, I don't really miss the H if it's not there; anyway that's a different type of feeling altogether, and you don't need a VN to get it. Right? All I have to do is point my browser at one of those moe-booru sites...or watch the latest ecchi-anime...or whatever.

2. I don't necessarily mind sex scenes. I'm not like "There MUST NOT BE any H scenes." Still, VN scenes tend to be awfully explicit, sometimes even too tedious. I usually end up skipping at least part of the descriptive writing.

3. I agree that some VNs seem to know where to put H scenes, and others seem to interrupt the story with them. I usually end up skipping some for that reason too. Ex: Da Capo

4. Some of these girls I simply do not find sexy, so the H scenes become meaningless. I might find them cute, like wanting to give them a big hug. But I will end up skipping H for that reason as well. Ex: Nanatsuiro Drops, Kanon, etc.

5. What turns me off worse than explicit scenes is the many-faceted perversion. Like the kind you can see in the Tags on VNDB. Things which I'm afraid are rather difficult to explain away by the "sex scenes in VNs are just a beautiful expression of love" theory. Oh, maybe this one technically belongs in another topic: "Corruption of human sexuality. Really necessary?" That problem is harder to fix by just skipping over scenes. Basically it just means I avoid that game.

[Zakamutt]

I personally don't mind H, even fairly bad H. I fap to almost every h-scene (one problem sometimes: too high density! I'm unable to... recharge.). This doesn't mean I'm not a huge storyfag; Ever17 is my top rated vn for a reason.

I usually read vns in bed with my faptop sitting on my chest. It helps...

With that said, I would love for the h to be generally better written and more accomodating to my western tastes (for one, I don't like the girls saying no all the time in that japanese ValuesDissonance way).

[Steve]

5. What turns me off worse than explicit scenes is the many-faceted perversion. Like the kind you can see in the Tags on VNDB. Things which I'm afraid are rather difficult to explain away by the "sex scenes in VNs are just a beautiful expression of love" theory. Oh, maybe this one technically belongs in another topic: "Corruption of human sexuality. Really necessary?" That problem is harder to fix by just skipping over scenes. Basically it just means I avoid that game.

Yeah, when picking a game I look at the sexual content and skip the game if I don't like the stuff there, such as yaoi, urination, bestiality, violence, NTR etc.

I like H scenes that are expression of love as I am a big romantic xD

[zoom909]

I fap to almost every h-scene (one problem sometimes: too high density! I'm unable to... recharge.)

This 'problem' cracked me up :-)

Well, as far as a solution goes, first check that you're playing the VN in real time. For example, if the next H scene happens t amount of time in the future, then you'll have to wait for t amount of time to continue playing.

[InvertMouse]

That sounds pretty intense Zakamutt! Hope everything is going okay over there ~

[Xasther]

Quote from Christine Love from an Interview:

"I love a good sex scene … if it actually makes sense for character development, if it’s to express emotions. I think those are great. It’s a great way to get into the heads of two people. But, if you can remove it and the story makes just as much sense … . Really, I think that goes for any element of the story. If you can remove it and the story makes sense, why was that element there, it’s just especially funny when it’s sex scenes."

Full Interview here: http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=10977

Pretty much spot on, if you ask me.

[Eldin]

I would say that some sex scenes are fine, others are not. there are some scenes that I've seen in a few games that I played that made me say aloud "what. seriously."

some characters that have romantic routes do not at all need a sex scene. I would go so far as to say that none of the characters really need a scene, but these ones made me feel like a scumbag for having gone down that route. any character that comes off as seriously mentally immature gives off a real pedo-vibe. I almost don't want to play little busters EX, the original of which is one of my favorite vns, just because rin acts far too childish for me to feel anything more than "awe, she's cute".

my favorite example of that is

Mare.

her route is completely unnecessary, does nothing for the plot, and is pretty much just there so the player can pork a 7 year old. she looks like a kid, she acts like a kid, and when I saw her route I seriously just stopped playing for the night.

[Yukiru]

i don't find h-scenes all that necessary, there are exceptions like Saya No Uta but those aren't more than a few.

the h-content could be totally implicit just like a certain heroine i don't want to spoil, i find the implicitness way more entertaining than h-scenes.

And of course there are well written h-scenes that make the couple somehow more lovely but i have only read one of those

[Stanleys]

I think that there are times when h-scenes are passable and other times when they are not, just like with anything. Me personally, I almost always skip right on past h-scenes because usually, I just want to get right back into the story. Do I think that they are necessary, no, not at all. A story can still be good with or without it, but sometimes they can add just a little something extra to the way the characters act towards each other.

[White Glint]

I dont mind them much and I read most of them, as sometimes they're funny/interesting.

I can perfectly understand why some people dont want them or would like an option to disable/skip them (like in Katawa Shoujo) other than "press ctrl to fast forward".

[Keyalha]

in my opinion they are not exactly necessary but sometimes they accompany the story if done well.

But if done wrong ( i look at you kira kira with Sarina Kashiwara route ) it can ruin a route or if done really really bad even the whole game.

On the other hand some games tend to work so much around it just to get an all ages rating so they can publish their games on portables and or consoles that its bluntly obvious.

Clannad for example the way they obviously circumvented even kissing was nearly ruining it. If the rest of the game wherent that good i surley had lost it at some point. I mean seriously quoting ingame text here " we made love that night ". That sounds like 19th century to me. It completly fails to depict reality and disturbs otherwise good writing.

A good way to do a game without H scenes for example is Little Busters. It mainly depends on the writing. With good writing and art it works without H scene.

TLDR: They are not necessary but if done right it can accompany a good story, if done wrong it can ruin a game.

[Cali]

Well as fairly new to this i could probably add my view on it.

 

You see sex scenes in all kind of movies right? Mass effect had a few scenes and a few other games?

Books/comics here and there have it i guess.

 

Does it ADD anything would probably be the better question?

 

From a marketing standpoint i guess it does right? Sex sells as they say.

 

Does the developer need to make it then? To sell more copies maybe yea..

 

From an artistic view who the hell knows   if they have a point to make with a H-scene then sure put it in.

Its not like im gonna stop watching james bond cos he is having sex with nearly every girl in the films heh

[Yeah Way]

H-scenes add massive replayability to VN's. I can't tell you how often I've gone back to Hoshimemo for some Yume love: especially "Eternal Heart"!

[RusAnon]

Even though I skip most of h-scenes (except in nukige) recently, I still prefer VNs with them.

They serve two important goals:

1) Bringing relations with heroine(s) to, uh, actual "relations" stage.

2) Showing that writer is generally comfortable with more intimate and ecchi things overall.

 

I totally hate "romance" in anime exactly because they never dare to go beyond awkward hands holding, no matter how long is title and how many time protag spent with heroine.

 

Ever17 was done pretty well in this aspect — there's no hentai and game is all-ages, but there was sex-scene and whole child-birthing afterwards. Such approach is fine with me as well.

[Snowtsuku]

As long as it's not forced and kind of flows with the story it's ok.

[Eldin]

I totally hate "romance" in anime exactly because they never dare to go beyond awkward hands holding, no matter how long is title and how many time protag spent with heroine.

 

oh they have anime like that too. it's generally referred to as "hentai". I am actually quite pleased that the vast majority of anime don't have h scenes, because then most countries wouldn't get introduced to it. I personally wouldn't have been introduced to anime had it not been for cartoon network. if the anime I fell in love with had what basically amounts to porn in all of it, the network would never have broadcast it, and I would probably be out doing something constructive right now instead of watching cartoons.

 

there are plenty of romance anime where it is assumed that the characters took their relationship to the next level. it would have done nothing for the story to show it, and would have done nothing but limit the targeted audience, so there is no need whatsoever to put it in the show. I like my anime to stay all ages thanks. if you need fap mats there are plenty of anime for that too.

[RusAnon]

I like my anime to stay all ages thanks. if you need fap mats there are plenty of anime for that too.

 

Way to miss my point entirely. I specifically pointed out that porn is not needed, like its done in Ever17.

What I need from mah romance in anime is moving to actual "we are couple" stage instead that awkward-hand-holding shit they put in pretty much every title. Yeah, sure there are very few titles that hint about characters having sex offscreen, but it doesn't help that they are still NOT acting like couple on-screen.

[nohman]

From a narrative point of view, they’re not necessary. Sometimes they even end up detracting from the story and cheapen it. They are often out-of character, out-of the moment, or just flatly  end up cannibalizing good characterization and attaching it to all those annoying clichés present in like every H-scene ever.  You know the ones.

 

Ideally, if an H-scene could be removed and nothing in the story would be affected, it shouldn’t be there. I don’t mean  two characters banging should be the reason the big bad gets defeated  or resolve some central conflict, but it should end up being reflected in their relationship and offer character development, for good or worse. Most importantly to me, I want them to be contextually relevant and natural.

 

From a marketing stand point, I couldn’t say. I’m not all-that knowledgeable about the eroge market. I get the impression that they’re a staple of the medium and a good marketing tool. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of sales were helped along by them just being in there.

 

That being said, I’m more than a little of a pervert, so I’ve certainly found enjoyment in them. In fact, I'm mostly okay even if they don't add anything to the story, so long as they don't detract from it.

[Nosebleed]

This is quite the interesting debate.

 

The way i see it, H scenes in VNs tend to decrease the quality of the story of most VNs, especially if they're simply composed of moaning and squirming seeyus for 10 whole minutes. I personaly do not appreciate said scenes since they add no value to the plot and are simply there as a market strategy so the player/viewer can impersonate themselves in the stead of the protagonist. Honestly I only see it as a mere market strategy and nothing else.

 

However this is not an absolute rule as H-scenes can have value of their own if the writers intend them to. They can provide the intimacy in the relationship between the protagonist and the heroine and convey emotions in a more raw form, rather than it just being moaning sounds and poorly detailed physical descriptions they can have detail and more dialog or even inner thoughts instead of just moaning everywhere, a novel is to be read not heard and there's plenty of physical novels that have sex scenes that can be an enjoyable read and the same concept applies to VNs in my opinion. If an H-scene is done properly it can be an enjoyable part of the story as one can see how deep the relationship between said characters is. But most VNs disregard this latter option and just chose to have sales by abusing sexualization.

 

Now these are the 2 sides i see when i analize H-scenes logically.

However I admit to being somewhat of a pervert and i rarely skip said scenes. But wether the novel had them or not would not change my personal enjoyment of it, that's what I'm attempting to get at.

I think it really just depends on the person who is reading the VN but i believe most should have an option to turn off the sexual content for people who do not enjoy it, i personally do not feel awkward with it but i'm rational enough to understand how it'd displease a lot of people who are trying to have a good read.

 

With that said my conclusion is it really just can go both ways but it tends to go the "wrong" way 90% of the times (or at least from my own personal experience with VNs since most I've played are rated 18+) but in the end it all comes down to the users and stastistics are the general rule when it comes to publishing companies and they are very much aware of the high amount of male audience that has their hormones on a rampage to get another "waifu". I think this will always be up for debate and everyone will just have their personal opinion. With that i conclude my argument.

[Intrinsic]

Short answer:

Yes, H-scenes are a necessary, as they are an valuable and irreplaceable tool that a visual novel writer has at their disposal to evoke specific enjoyable human emotions.

 

 

Long answer:

I dislike when creative expression is limited in any fashion. The idea of making an “all ages” game for the sake of making an “all ages” game is an irritating notion. When an artist is given complete freedom to create anything they want, the end result will be the best and the most pure expression of human thought and emotion that can be created. If the end result of unrestricted creativity is an all ages title, I have nothing against it, and it’s probably an all ages title worth reading.

 

H-scence can serve at least two purposes I can think of. They can evoke feelings of closeness like an emotional bond and intimacy, or they can simply be indented to create sexual arousal. These two emotions are often avoided or approached in different ways in western media. I’d say H-scenes are one of the biggest defining differences VNs have when compared to other media. Many people want to experience these emotional states while reading, but it’s also clear many of these same people are uncomfortable doing so. In most cases people will not clearly come out and say the true reason they enjoyed eroge in their visual novel. People will either dance around the topic talking about the story only, or will make a joke out of it, making jokes about faping or what not.

 

Not all H-scenes are will placed or well excited. It’s like the start of the punisher movie. The movie starts with a failed dig for sympathy before the guy goes on his revenge rampage. Just because that attempt failed at creating the motion the writer wanted, and might have been awkward, doesn’t mean digs for sympathy should be removed from movies. It’d be like starting a forum thread titled “are digs for sympathy in movies really necessary?” Not everyone will enjoy this type of emotional experience in a movie, nor will it always be well placed or excuted, but a writer should be allowed the freedom to try and evoke any emotion they want.

 

I’ve not tried all that many VNs yet, but of the ones I’ve tried, I’d never want the H-scenes to be removed. In one visual novel I read the eroge was boring and awkward, but in the big picture it did create the building blocks and feelings that were necessary for the strong intimate relationship the story contained. In another NV a legitimately good story was married to arousing content. Enjoying a good story that is both intellectually stimulating and sexually arousing at the same time is a wonderful treat that I don’t think western media will ever provide me.

 

Removing H-scenes from VNs would be removing a large part of what they are. Such honest and uninhibited attempts at expression are amazing and are not something that should be tampered with and censored.  People who do appreciate eroge scenes just need to be more honest and mature when they express what they actually enjoyed while playing a VN.

 

 

Context:

The answer I provided above, to the question “H-Scenes. Really necessary?” was provided while considering the visual novel genre of media as a whole. In other words, would this genre of media be better off if all eroge was removed from it completely?

 

If eroge was removed from all the VNs I’ve read, I’d feel like something was missing, even in the novels where I didn’t really care for the eroge at all.

[Joyjason]

I'm unable to... recharge.

 

Please sir, my feels.

 

Jokes aside, though, I'm going to shamefully necro this thread.

 

H-Scenes needed? HELL NO.

Yes, it's a great element to express the "romance" between two characters, but in many games where there are more than one heroine, it just seems as if the protagonist is pretty much a player. Obviously, this isn't according to the context of the story, but how do you expect the readers to feel, if a guy is banging all these cute girls?

 

In many "good" titles, H-scenes ruin the conclusion. I don't understand why they include it, and the only times when H-scenes are actually "used well" are some of my highest ranking titles, such as Mashiroiro Symphony, SINCLIENT (kinda meh, but I'll include it nonetheless)

 

This is why I like to read LNs too, except for the fact that LNs do not contain visual or hearing elements that would factor in for a "good story". Then again, I hate anime because there's only so much you can fit into a single series.

 

Finally, one last (and weird) reason I don't like H-Scenes is that for many games, skipping through them is a pain. Even when I mash the "Ctrl" key, it literally takes an entire minute to skip through everything. Ugh!

EDIT: Sorry for my half-assed post. Here's a better explanation of what I was trying to say.

 

1) In a series where there are multiple heroines, the protagonist "falling in love" with one of the heroines will either not be explained, or be clearly defined. In the former situation, this makes him seem as if he fell in love with the heroine for no particular reason (but some games have the protagonist "thinking" that the heroine is "cute", which makes me wonder; did you fall for the heroine because of her looks or what?), and in the latter case, affection being clearly defined makes the game REALLY boring.

 

In either case, the protagonist's "affection" for the heroine seems bland, shallow, and pretty inconsistent. 

 

So does that mean that H-scene with games with a single heroine is good? In my opinion, it generally is (unless it's a nukige), but I can't really name many games that have this trait. (Mainly because I'm a bit unique in my tastes, and such a game wouldn't sell easily)

 

2) As some other individuals mentioned, H-scenes are often a factor that ruins a conclusion. Whether it be from Da Capo (which annoyed the living daylights out of me) or games like "Natsu no Ame" (This is only if I recall correctly), random inclusion of H-scenes suddenly overrides the "good ending" and the satisfactory feeling. I'm sure someone can explain this psychology much better than I can, but ending a "romance" game with an H-scene refers to guilt, humiliation, and taboo, while an ending with the heroine working hard with the protagonist is a symbol of hope, diligence, and happiness. 

3) I guarantee you that over 90% of the text in any H-scene is either the excessive detail of the intercourse (such as onomatopoeia of ejaculation, the heroine blankly describing the obvious state that she's in, and how it "felt good"), or the "panting" of the heroine. Simply put, it's the same thing over and over again. Now, this is really not the case in some darker games where the intercourse is used to express something else, but that would stray FAR from romance, which I think many readers would say is nothing but "fapping material"

 

Please. I know that H-scenes are generally used for a certain purpose, but would it KILL the company to include a bit of foreshadowing or even a portion of the scene dedicated to "realistically" (note how I put that word in quotations) creating the mood? 

 

Not every player rushes to pull down his bottoms as an H-scene starts...

 

4) And as I mentioned, some scenes are too long for me to skip. 

 

As a conclusion, let me point out that I've actually gotten into the habit of "stopping" each story as I get to the H-scenes, and do that for all the heroines present. I would then do something else (study, text, eat) while I hold down the Ctrl key for all the heroines that I've "saved up" until that point. 

 

Sad, I know, but it's how I play my novels, and haters are going to hate. 

[Arch-Magos]

Ah, H-Scenes.

 

Am I the only one who sees them as comic relief?

 

On topic, no. Can they make sense in context? Yes. Should they be included? As a purist I must grudgingly admit 'yes' to this, missing out on content originally meant to be shipped with the game just rubs me the wrong way, even if it's content I don't particularly have an interest in. For the most part I skip through H scenes, or read them to laugh.

 

Translators, my heart goes out to you, I cannot imagine keeping a straight face through half of the dialog or sound effects.

[Joyjason]

Translators, my heart goes out to you, I cannot imagine keeping a straight face through half of the dialog or sound effects.

 

I'm actually really happy someone knows how it feels to "translate" these lines. 

 

When I was working on a very small portion of Nao's route from the YnS project, I would be able to breeze through the main lines, but would have trouble on how to translate the H-scenes properly. I ended up skipping over most of them.

[Darklord Rooke]

Translators, my heart goes out to you, I cannot imagine keeping a straight face through half of the dialog or sound effects.

 

 

I feel sorry for the voice actors who have to act out these scenes.

[Arch-Magos]

I feel sorry for the voice actors who have to act out these scenes.

Oh man, I can't stop laughing.

 

"OK, that take sounded kinda weak, can you say, 'Fuck my ass-pussy until I'm pregnant onii-chan!' with a little more emotion this time?"