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By now, everyone's already heard of the infamous Quinnsgate scandal about some hypocritical feminist game designer who slept with five journalists in order to get her game a high score. But while everyone's talking about the incident (or pretending that it never happened), I really haven't heard much about her game itself.

 

That game is of course Depression Quest, a title that's supposedly based off what depressed people go through. Has anyone here actually played it? I ask, because the game is essentially a visual novel where you do a ton of reading and is described as "interactive fiction."

 

While the whole incident with Zoe Quinn is a clusterfuck in it and of itself, I think that this game is giving visual novels a bad name. Just look at the reviews.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/270170/

 

Apparently the writing isn't very good, and it's just an all-around mediocre narrative. I'm thinking to myself, do we really need games like this representing visual novels? It just makes them look bad.

 

Any thoughts? Who actually has played it? And if we're going to discuss the incident, try to keep it civil. Thanks. :)

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I've played it, and it's excellent.

 

The hate for the creator is the reason for those reviews, not the other way around. It's actually a well written experience, and it represents what it's like to be depressed fairly well.

 

Also, the whole clusterfuck that you mentioned is entirely misrepresented in the way that you phrased it. The person who she allegedly had a relationship with never once reviewed the game, and there was also only one person involved. Don't take the psychotic internet hate machine rage at face value, that's a really poor way to find out actual factual information about anything.  EDIT: You should actually read about this before forming an opinion on it.

 

I also don't think that Depression Quest is in any way representative of this medium, nor do I think that anybody is looking at Depression Quest and scoffing at the very idea of visual novels.

 

I don't want to get shit all over, so I'm going to leave it at that,  rather than get into my personal experience with Depression Quest. I don't think people should dismiss it out of hand just because everyone hates Zoe Quinn right now, that's all.

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Adding on what theboxcarracer said you can't dismiss a bad game and just say that we don't need them representing the medium, even if bad games are the very bane of gamers they do exist and you can't dismiss them from their genre just because the game happens to suck. So regardless of it being a good or a bad game it has every right to be "representative" of a genre because work was put into it and it was designed to be in that genre.

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I have no interest in trying the game. It does not interest me, and honestly, I'd rather spend my time clearing up Muv Luv Extra.

Let's just hope nobody connects DQ with VN's.

 

 

I have read quite a bunch about the subject, and I really dislike Quinn at this point. However, that is not about the topic, which is the game itself.

 

And in that matter, I do not really have anything to contribute.

 

#GamerGate

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I tried playing it for a while, and I only played about 20 minutes of it before giving it up, and I was trying to make the MC kill himself, can you do it? Also, It feels fake. Something's off, that's not how people react to depression, she's just making things up as she goes along, but since she writes how numb  the main character is to everything every two lines it's seemingly a realistic portrayal. Again, it's not. It's more complex than that, but god forbid that they try to do their research (and no, talking to a couple guys with depression is not enough... there are countless books and papers on the subject, at the very least read one.)

 

But I'm pretty sure it's a VN.

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If this Zoe chick is hot then sure I guess I'll give her game a 10/10 if she'll sleep with me, he he he...    oh man I want to kill myself *facepalm*

 

But seriously, is she claiming that her game helping people get out of depression? I'm not familiar with Depression Quest but unless she is a professional therapist or at least had some kind of training then I would stay away from any false promises this game makes.

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Did she deserve all of harassment she received? 

 

Does anyone deserve that kind of harassment? Do you remember the last time you acted shitty? Did you deserve death threats, angry phone calls, the distribution of nude photos, the distribution of your home address, the harassment of your family and friends, the harassment of your assumed family and friends, the call for people who know you to lose their jobs, etc.? No. You didn't deserve that at all. You just happened to not be in the public eye when you did the shitty thing that you did, so you didn't have to put up with it.

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Its like this, she slept with Game Journalists who went on to write these reviews about her games, and there was no disclosure of this until well after the fact, that is a conflict of interest no matter how you look at it ,Kotaku is hardly the source to link when it comes this. What Kotaku did by allowing these reviews to happen despite this happening is extremely unprofessional. 

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Not sure I'd be linking to Kotaku since they're the ones who are being accused to begin with. Even if we say that the review didn't exist (I'm not saying either way), the point is that she slept with people who were game journalists. That to me is already a red flag.

 

I was linking to Kotaku because that's where the accusation arose from. There was never a review there, and that is the most common thing I hear about this stuff, that she slept her way into getting good reviews. Nobody ever actually saw a review for it on Kotaku, did they? Is there an archive out there of the review before it disappeared? Is there even a shred of evidence pointing to the idea that a review of Depression Quest ever existed on Kotaku? No. There isn't. Because it didn't exist. "Sleeping her way into getting a good review" was just really easy shorthand for "this girl slept with a games journalist" and was never actually the truth.

 

You're still allowed to have an opinion about her, but Kotaku never published a review of her game, and that is an undeniable fact.

 

And yeah, you should be suspicious if you think there's something going on behind the scenes here. That's absolutely fine.

 

(The following is in no way meant to be an accusation and is not targeted at you, it's just my perspective on what has happened with the situation as a whole.)

 

I think it's so easy to get caught up in this internet hate train that people have stopped wanting to think about it for themselves. There's absolutely no need to "pick a side" here. There's only a need to look at the facts of what happened, compare them to your own personal morals and beliefs, and then question those morals and beliefs (because it's always possible to be the one in the wrong in any given situation) and then decide for yourself how you feel about the situation. And when you do, maybe you have some rational discussion with other people about the subject, maybe you don't, depending on the situation. Thats how we all grow as people. I don't think the current (general) discussion about Zoe Quinn has been anything even close to that. It has been very immature and has involved a lot of jumping to conclusions and most certainly hasn't been "rational."

 

I also think that Depression Quest is a quality thing, visual novel or not. I also don't think that people equate Depression Quest with this genre at all; if anything, they are going to (and already have) likened it to the text adventures of old, like Zork and similar games. This whole mess is going to have little to no effect on what we like on this forum. 

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I was linking to Kotaku because that's where the accusation arose from. There was never a review there, and that is the most common thing I hear about this stuff, that she slept her way into getting good reviews. Nobody ever actually saw a review for it on Kotaku, did they? Is there an archive out there of the review before it disappeared? Is there even a shred of evidence pointing to the idea that a review of Depression Quest ever existed on Kotaku? No. There isn't. Because it didn't exist. "Sleeping her way into getting a good review" was just really easy shorthand for "this girl slept with a games journalist" and was never actually the truth.

 

You're still allowed to have an opinion about her, but Kotaku never published a review of her game, and that is an undeniable fact.

 

And yeah, you should be suspicious if you think there's something going on behind the scenes here. That's absolutely fine.

 

(The following is in no way meant to be an accusation and is not targeted at you, it's just my perspective on what has happened with the situation as a whole.)

 

I think it's so easy to get caught up in this internet hate train that people have stopped wanting to think about it for themselves. There's absolutely no need to "pick a side" here. There's only a need to look at the facts of what happened, compare them to your own personal morals and beliefs, and then question those morals and beliefs (because it's always possible to be the one in the wrong in any given situation) and then decide for yourself how you feel about the situation. And when you do, maybe you have some rational discussion with other people about the subject, maybe you don't, depending on the situation. Thats how we all grow as people. I don't think the current (general) discussion about Zoe Quinn has been anything even close to that. It has been very immature and has involved a lot of jumping to conclusions and most certainly hasn't been "rational."

 

I also think that Depression Quest is a quality thing, visual novel or not. I also don't think that people equate Depression Quest with this genre at all, if anything, they are going to (and already have) likened it to the text adventures of old, like Zork and similar games. This whole mess is going to have little to no effect on what we like on this forum. 

tl;dr http://kotaku.com/tag/depression-quest you were saying? While Nathan Greyson certainly didn't review Depression quest, there was stuff written about her, not to mention its not just about Kotaku, Rock Paper Shotgun and other sites have, watch the quinnspiracy videos that I linked you will get a lot more information than you think, which is WHY the whole gamergate scandal is such a big deal.

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tl;dr http://kotaku.com/tag/depression-quest you were saying?

 

 

Thank you for editing your post to make it more clear.

 

Yes, there absolutely has been stuff written by people accused of having relationships with her. And that's bad. However, if those things were actual reviews, that would be an entirely different level of bad, and making the statement that a site posted a review written by someone who had a relationship with her is a whole different accusation. 

 

I just wanted to clarify that no "reviews" actually happened. I also wanted to make sure that no one here thought that level of abuse she received was justified, because it wasn't.

 

So yes, there is certainly some shady shit going on in games journalism right now. I just think that everyone is in a better position when sticking to the facts and trying to speak with a level head. I also don't think that the quality of her (and two other people's) game or my experience with the game is any way lessened by this stuff. 

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I don't care about her doing nude photography, it's her choice and it has nothing to do with what she did or what kind of person she is and I think slut shaming is wrong, it doesn't matter with how many guys she slept with, one, two, five or fifty, I don't care about any of that.

 

But it has been proven that she is using the victim card all the time and yet at the same time lying, cheating, using bully tactics against anyone who doesn't have the same world view as her, and generally just a fake. I mean I'm a man who likes women, and as a result I also like naked women, oh man I must be sexist and anti-women, it also means I want to get back to the 15th century where women knew their place, lol. Seriously, feminists take things to the extreme, it's like south park in real life.

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I fully agree with you, that is a good piece that isn't taking sides.

In the end the Zoe Quinn situation is just one part of a larger problem between indie developers and game journalism, if this was any other industry things like this wouldn't have flown.

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In the end the Zoe Quinn situation is just one part of a larger problem between indie developers and game journalism, if this was any other industry things like this wouldn't have flown.

 

Unfortunately the internet had to go and do "internet justice" and turned this scandal into another conversation entirely. It's almost impossible to talk about journalistic integrity right now without bringing up how crazy things have been. It's been stressing me the hell out, honestly, and I usually avoid conversations about this topic. I don't know what brought me to responding to it in this specific instance; maybe it's just because I'm new here and I already like this community; but man, this whole situation has been bumming me the eff out, in all aspects of it.

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Honestly, if those allegations about her sleeping with reviewers and browbeating competing charities are true, I have no interest in anything she makes, now or in the future.  I don't really care if the game is the best thing in the world, I don't want to support someone that does ethically and morally wrong things (I know that the proceeds go to charities, but I'd rather donate directly to them and cut out Quinn entirely if the allegations are true).

 

Just for reference, I have genetic depression, and while I think it's great that she's raising awareness about it, this obviously isn't the right way to do things.  You can't justify unethical actions by saying, "Oh, but it's to help people!" afterwards.

 

That said, it's great if the game is of good quality.  We need more free games that aren't complete crap on Steam.  It's kinda become an insult at this point.  "Ewwww, that game is F2P and isn't TF2!"

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But I'm pretty sure it's a VN.

 

Interactive Fiction describes anything where you can influence the direction of the story. This includes, but is not limited to, "Choose your own adventure" books, Telltales "The Walking Dead" saga, and most "Visual Novels." Kinetic Novels are not included because you cannot influence the story.

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Honestly, if those allegations about her sleeping with reviewers and browbeating competing charities are true, I have no interest in anything she makes, now or in the future.  I don't really care if the game is the best thing in the world, I don't want to support someone that does ethically and morally wrong things (I know that the proceeds go to charities, but I'd rather donate directly to them and cut out Quinn entirely if the allegations are true).

 

Just for reference, I have genetic depression, and while I think it's great that she's raising awareness about it, this obviously isn't the right way to do things.  You can't justify unethical actions by saying, "Oh, but it's to help people!" afterwards.

 

That said, it's great if the game is of good quality.  We need more free games that aren't complete crap on Steam.  It's kinda become an insult at this point.  "Ewwww, that game is F2P and isn't TF2!"

Narcissu and Narcissu side second are on steam and f2p and were pretty fugging good.

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Even ignoring all the drama surrounding Zoe and the game as well as its implementation being mediocre, Depression Quest is shallow at best and spreading misinformation at worst. Depression is quite the faceted illness, and DQ utterly fails to capture that fact, telling only a story about her specific manifestation, not the general thing, which is why it didn't resonate with me (also a sufferer, although of a different kind) at all.

 

Most choices feel completely inconsequential, and the only two that actually carry weight, consulting a therapist and taking anti-depressants are just two steps to betterment, some of which might not do anything for other sufferers or impossible to do because of how their depression affects their lives - crippling depressions, causing them to be unable to wake up in the mornings, not just choosing to ignore the alarm, social fear and agoraphobia, rendering them entirely unable to even leave their rooms, even though they're perfectly fine coping with everything else in their lives. The list goes on, and the therapy needed is specific to each person, the medication, if any is needed, varying wildly as well.

 

Feeling dreary, unhappy, unfulfilled by a dead-end job, unsociable and unable to get out of bed early in the morning doesn't mean you're depressed or not, and the (re)solutions offered simply aren't cutting it, especially since they're not fleshed out enough to follow different paths, making the game feel as if it's not going anywhere and, as already mentioned, shallow.

 

It tells the story of a - if anything - very mild depression that could be "cured" just by picking your ass up, hitting the gym, hanging around the right sort of people (something we already know Zoe utterly fails to do) and if necessary quit your dead-end job to do something fulfilling. I won't go into further detail here, because Zoe has already gotten the brutal detail about all of it in the recent drama. She's not depressed, she's just a seriously messed up person, not even in the "oh the poor thing" sense.

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Quinn doesn't deserve all that harassment and death threats, however, us gamers do not deserve to be denounced, ironically, by gaming press itself either.

 

There are articles that call gamers misogynists and sexist. If Quinn should not have had all that harassment, then neither should have the gaming community. However, people make it look like Quinn is simply an angel who was harassed by us vile, corrupt, misogynist, sexist, backwards, lonely basement-dwelling neckbeard virgins- AKA gamers. Of course it doesn't matter that the people playing the victim harass and start a hate campaign against other people, and completely innocent ones at that.

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Nay's perspective in interesting, because I thought DQ had some nifty stuff. I don't think it's necessarily that useful to actual sufferers, but more as an introduction to depression (if a certain type) to outsiders unable to understand. The graying out of options right from the start, at least, was somewhat interesting.

 

I personally only did like, one playthrough and picked all the choices I knew were "right", so I suppose I didn't really get all that far into exploring it...

 

Out of interest Nay, did you play/read Actual Sunlight? Another take, I personally really liked (and resonated with) it; it is however a personal account, which might not apply to you. I suppose there's also this. I'll note that there is a follow-up later as well.

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