Learn Japanese Together: Super Challenge 2013

[Berilium]

You're welcome. If you're going to start with the 5th edition I strongly recommend that you study parallelly the RK1 Supplement's Kanji http://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/en/files/2012/12/RK1-Supplement.pdf

 

These are the Kanjis that were added after the 5th edition and are part of the Joyo Kanji. The 6th edition has already implemented them so this is for the 5th edition only.

[Oxidian]

Going slowly (skipped a few days), around 135 kanji. How much do you understand by knowing 2200 kanji instead of heising's 3000 ?

Physical book should arrive next week.

[Funyarinpa]

I just did my first deck with the legitimate PDF(not a chance to buy the book yet, so I'll probably pirate the fifth and use the PDF posted above :/)

 

On the other hand, kanji are interesting and very fun to write! Finding time will be harder for this than getting myself to sit down and do it.

 

Thank you a lot!

 

(If I do not falter after a week, I'll start to post on a thread...)

[mordred]

Is it too late for me to start?You guys are all seems so smart already   .....it feels that I'm losing out even after passing JLPT N3....Kanji I can remember are only about 400

[Zakamutt]

I'm pretty sure you're jp smarter than me, even if I might technically be kanji smarter than you at ~800 I can remember at least one meaning of. Grammar a cba

[Mephisto]

Well it's not 2013 anymore so yeah .

 

It's never too late to start learning Japanese, and having 400 kanji you can actually use a good start, since most people following Heisig's method won't be able to use even 1/10 of the kanji they've learned that way. 

[Theos]

Is it really a good idea to start by learning Kanji? in Tae Kims guide he even says not to start with it. I'm getting mixed feelings about learning Kanji first.

[Berilium]

Well the thing is Kanjis are the diferents words and meanings in a sentence. You need to make the choice of studying those words/meanings or start with understanding how the sentence works (grammar).

 

Of course you could do both at the same time, not very time efficient obviously. 

 

The thing that I missed and it was said by various people here in the forum is that Heisig guide teaches you how to write and remember the kanjis and it's general meaning (some of them has various). And well, it's not bad of course but for me who only wants to learn Japanese to understand it and not doing anything else (eg. actually writing kanjis/sentences) it was kind of pointless all that hours I spent trying to learn the strokes. For actually remember the kanji the guide is obviously useful but I didn't like the part of the writing and the meanings >.> I started with Tae's guide weeks ago and I'm doing some light kanji learning as I study the grammar (trying to remember the various kanjis as they appears in different sentences, some of them appears more often and you get used to it) Anyways that is my beginners opinion. You need to decide what to do at first ,don't be like me >.< (learnt 700 Heisig kanjis and dropped it....derp)

[mordred]

Well.my progress is slow because I do practice write and learn grammar at the same time,I need it for living lol

[Mephisto]

I started by learning Kanji as well, which ended up being a mistake, since I had to learn the actual language after that, and then relearn kanji again to actually be able to use it. If all you needed was Kanji then Chinese people would be able to read Japanese,which they can't without actually studying Japanese. 

[Berilium]

By the way, what's with the kanji font size? Some complex kanjis are hard to distinguis because it's all cramped. Take for example Mephisto's demon kanji. 魔 <--   look at this tiny crap -.- I had to copy, paste and increase the font size to be able to recognize it. No one said we needed super-vision before starting to learn the languague.

 

Or maybe mi sight is just bad. Altough I think my problem is more of a distance kind of thing.

[Mephisto]

I guess it is really small, I didn't even notice and yeah you can't really read the details, only the overall shape. As you read more you kind of know what the word is even if you can't see all the details in most cases though (assuming you know the word already ) 

[Tay]

Is it really a good idea to start by learning Kanji? in Tae Kims guide he even says not to start with it. I'm getting mixed feelings about learning Kanji first.

If you have exposure to language learning, than you should be fine starting with Kanji and expanding from there. There are many good arguments to starting with the Kanji (the intro to RTK has good words of wisdom on the matter), just as there are for other systems.

 

Tae Kim's book is challenging, but I'm finding myself very grateful for having done RTK first. The psychological barrier of having the Kanji over and done with is liberating, and I'm moving extremely fast into the reading phase of learning Japanese.

 

 

 

 

... So... in the end, follow what works for you. The key: don't give up, and don't take breaks. Scale waaaaay back if you have to, but always -- ALWAYS -- do new material every day.

[魔王黒 (Retired. Now 傍観者)]

Is the topic still active? The thread's definitely interesting. I've started learning Japanese not so long ago myself and I decided to start with Hiragana, which I was done with in a week or so. I was planning to learn Katakana after that, and then gradually learn Kanji while learning new words and phrases. But if that's not the most efficient way of learning it, I'd be glad to change it.

[Zakamutt]

There are a thousand arguments, and counterarguments, for a thousand methods. While a few are likely near-objectively shit, the rest will mostly be up to taste. Actually consistently learning is probably more important than efficiency of method; if you can narrow down your skills and weaknesses when it comes to learning, people can give better advice.

 

(I just realized that I inadvertently copied the meaning of Tay's post. Go me.)

 

If you decide to go for RtK for example, realize that you're going to spend at least two months or so purely grinding kanji using that method. That might be effective for some people (see Tay above, although being a med student makes him somewhat of a special case to begin with), but can also be highly demotivating as you really don't get much better at reading Japanese for that period (and yes, it is specifically advised that you don't try to learn (anything involving kanji) using other methods in the meanwhile, as this will make the RtK method less effective. More or less.) Personally I don't find this a huge problem, but your experience may differ.

 

Many people that say you have to eventually get around to the kanji after learning other stuff actually recommend RtK for that purpose. It's a long-term potential efficiency gain.

[魔王黒 (Retired. Now 傍観者)]

That's not a problem. I realized that a key to every learning is good motivation and the lack of stress. The latter usually shows up after forcing yourself to study more than you can, leading to the decrease of the former. At least, that's what happened to many times already. That's why I'm studying slowly but steadily. I'll finish Kana first, then see about grammar and Kanji afterwards.

 

I'll keep RtK in mind. Thanks for the suggestion.

[seventhfonist425]

There are a thousand arguments, and counterarguments, for a thousand methods. While a few are likely near-objectively shit, the rest will mostly be up to taste. Actually consistently learning is probably more important than efficiency of method; if you can narrow down your skills and weaknesses when it comes to learning, people can give better advice.

 

(I just realized that I inadvertently copied the meaning of Tay's post. Go me.)

 

If you decide to go for RtK for example, realize that you're going to spend at least two months or so purely grinding kanji using that method. That might be effective for some people (see Tay above, although being a med student makes him somewhat of a special case to begin with), but can also be highly demotivating as you really don't get much better at reading Japanese for that period (and yes, it is specifically advised that you don't try to learn (anything involving kanji) using other methods in the meanwhile, as this will make the RtK method less effective. More or less.) Personally I don't find this a huge problem, but your experience may differ.

 

Many people that say you have to eventually get around to the kanji after learning other stuff actually recommend RtK for that purpose. It's a long-term potential efficiency gain.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Depends a lot on the person. I changed a fair number of times in my whole process too. Never finished RtK (Though, I think I could have if some outside sources didn't get in the way...)

[zoom909]

I'd like to take a moment to report that as of today I'm finally done with studying 2000 kanji (I'm a proponent of the kanji-last method).

Before I began this study, I relied on osmosis(?) kanji learning such as glancing through the kyouiku grades, recognizing them together with new vocabulary/readings, and sounding out new words I came across while reading.

But while that has worked well for reading manga with furigana / reading PC VNs with a text hooker, it doesn't suffice for the next step, which is reading a manga or light novel or game assisted by only a standard dictionary (well actually three).

 

Not sure how efficient my methods for Japanese really are.  I only know they are effective for me.  That's because I never learned on a schedule--only when the spirit moved me.  Speaking of which:

"He that in reading would improve

Must first with reading fall in love;

For true love for true pains will call,

and that's the charm that conquers all."

(I personally think that stretches the "love" metaphor to its breaking point there, but anyway, happy reading...)

[ashton]

Hey, sorry for digging out an old topic, anyone Managed to learn jp this way yet?

I've pretty much set up similiar program for myself quite a while ago and found this topic through google.

atm i'm at 760 kanji doing 20/day, though i guess i'll increase it to 25/day. I've also pretty much practiced writing them a bit more.

 

Personally i've been planning to do the vocabulary + conjugations next, though i guess i might jump onto to the grammer part as well. .

 

 

[Zakamutt]

Well, I did complete RtK December last year and I'm currently slacking too much on grammar, not much else to report sadly. Had learnt the kana way before all that.

[Zalor]

Hey, sorry for digging out an old topic, anyone Managed to learn jp this way yet?

I've pretty much set up similiar program for myself quite a while ago and found this topic through google.

atm i'm at 760 kanji doing 20/day, though i guess i'll increase it to 25/day. I've also pretty much practiced writing them a bit more.

 

Personally i've been planning to do the vocabulary + conjugations next, though i guess i might jump onto to the grammer part as well. .

 

Aaeru who wrote the guide learned Japanese in this style. Her Japanese got strong enough where she even fan translated for awhile. The most important part is to read. Once you get RTK and Tae Kim's Grammar out of the way, read! With the help of Jparser and a Text hooker, once you know Japanese grammar you are more or less set. In my opinion RTK isn't necessary, but highly beneficial if you choose to do it. Personally I'm currently making the transition from RTK to grammar and reading. From what I have noticed, all the people who know Japanese fairly well on this site prioritized reading after getting the grammar down. Recognizing Kanji and knowing grammar won't do anything for you unless if you constantly expose yourself to the written language. Also, memorizing vocabulary doesn't seem that necessary because you will naturally learn words by running across them enough in reading.  

This post is a combination of advice I received, and personal observation.    

[ashton]

Yep reading should be fun part, but then again doing vocab flashcards should ease it up in a long while, Shouldn't really be too much of a problem though, 600+ anime pretty much made me able to discern sounds and understand some of the sutff that's going on, reading was always the thing that scared me the most. Doing some vocab and figuring out grammar should be enough to get the text after a while, prolly only thing i fear is conjugations but the more kanji you do more confidence you gain I also noticed heisig ain't exactly needed but i plan to stick to it, first there's the confidence and good habits, second is the fact that before looking up a kanji in dictionary would be insane, now ? you start to get the feel for the writing system, also it's a good base in the long run, after you feel you're confident with kanji you can always start adding kun readings, later on readings etc..

 

Anyway i guess i should make a list of manga for re-reading once i'm done with heisig and grammar. I pretty much expected this step but i guess i'm gonna have to start it earlier than i planned. Oh well that's mostly good part, that's how i learned english after all

 

 

Anyway thanks a lot for info Got a lot of time as long as i don't burn out i hope to get hang of it before persona 5 launch