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The Current Fuwa


Kaguya

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Being a moderator is not some super serious business. We're members, just like the lot of you. We're here to enjoy fuwa as well.

 

I was an admin before for a short while, turned back to a moderator cause other reasons (but I had the choice to stay as one, but I didn't bother/don't care)

 

also I'm 90% inactive still or so moderator wise (also honestly I'm more interested in the community than the other stuff but busy with life /shrug)  

 

actually I have no clue why I'm still a moderator but w/e, maybe I can be more active later oh, who knows~

 

 

A moderator is supposed to moderate the community. That's just it. It basically means enforcing forum rules and dealing with reports. When something big happens, we also try our best to help with what's going on, but it's not an obligation or anything. Otherwise the inactive mods would have been excomungated or something, lol. 

 

Pretty much.

I mean I don't actually do very much moderation of posts either, although I do put in my inputs to current events here and there when I actually see them in the Staff forum....

 

This isn't supposed to be a love/hate discussion, people. I will mention that I think it's funny how a few of the people who are basically asking us to turn fuwa into dictatorship are also complaining about how strict we are. The logics~

 

The thing is- and it was a main point of mine- all of the drama currently going

 

"So... Whaddaya say? Wanna be a moderator?"

 

Just that. There are no super amazing obligations, secret rituals or any demands besides following the usual forum rules. We're just people the admin team found to enforce the forum rules, and we do it because we want to.

You forgot the part to swear unyielding loyalty to the FuwaGod Aaeru and the ArchMage Tay...

(just kidding, he's right there's really nothing else )

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I was always under the impression that Zhurai was a moderator because of the IRC channel way back in the day when people just joined and left and there was the occasional 5 lines about sc2 or something. 

 

15:04 nooblord1: hi

15:14: nooblord1 has disconnected

19:24: nooblord2: hey whats up

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I was always under the impression that Zhurai was a moderator because of the IRC channel way back in the day when people just joined and left and there was the occasional 5 lines about sc2 or something. 

 

15:04 nooblord1: hi

15:14: nooblord1 has disconnected

19:24: nooblord2: hey whats up

 

Umm.... Nope!

 

Admin because of another project but then I have it inactive now, turned into a moderator cause they wanted to lessen the amnt of admins on the forum (but didn't force me to become one, just went with it cause w/e), and then I was a moderater ever since.

 

helping the IRC become slightly more active...... maybe could've helped slightly except wrong timing (I talked about sc2 stuff awhile after)   Also the IRC is seperate (was?) from the forum (or Kuu would've been an admin or moderator or something)

 

(although I don't think my role in the IRC was that big except for the fact that I padded the stats enough because of the sc2 talk that some people tried to make that into a spamming game)

 

 

That's what I remember at least /shrug

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So, here we are. It's been over a year since I joined the fuwa forums and over 8 months since I became a mod. The community is growing and a lot happened since I first joined, but I feel like I have much more to say now than I did when I first made that "my thoughts and opinions on fuwanovel" thread.

 

Agree about the growth of the forum. When I visit sometimes and see that a lot of people are into several threads, I remember the days that it's just almost me and you putting up post all over the place. Was fun. I think some loved me for being active while some thought it was all spam.

 

Frankly, we are doing great. Every day we get more members, and the activity in the forums keep increasing. I remember a time where Aaeru had to make a topic asking how to make things more lively in the forums because of how little movement we were having, lol.

 

I remember that thread. And I remember most of the topics I started way back and surprisingly few of them are still alive. IRC extravaganza thread, Kendjin's Food Threads and my threads. Seems that mods way back see those threads as annoying but to be honest I think it's my contribution to the community back then. Trying to think of reply to every post is hard and some of them might seem spam but I think it's me showing how I want people to participate and that there is one who is willing to read their responses and reply to it.

 

Some people complain about the drama and conflict that's been happening now, but seriously, it hasn't increased at all. We've always had the same amount of conflict- from all sorts of heated copyright controversy when Aaeru was still around, the bloody drama happening when the forum policies had to be decided and a lot of serious discussion over small matters like AMApocalypse (which were just 4 threads, actually) and silly stuff like Lolipocalypse. This reminds me of the discussion over the banner and all of that.

 

I missed the Lolipocalypse :( but then again I'm not really into discussing those stuff. Still, I've heard several dramas from my fuwasources :P

 

We've had problems with spammers (me being one of them in the past~) and all sorts of other small and petty discussions that just seem ridiculous when I look back. Remember fuwaide? That really brings back memories :P

 

The drama is still the same. It's just that since there are more people around, more people get to watch what happens as well. I can say from being here since a long time and investing countless hours on fuwanovel that all is the same as it has been. Two or three loldoramas on random threads are par the course. Problems with specific members are also the usual, except since Tay laid out the rule enforcement system, we spend a few hours dealing with those problems instead of several days.

 

This is a lot: DQ6zBxo.png

I remember times when we had, usually, 40 people looking at the site. Hell, there was even a day where I was the only member logged in- which has been screenshoted and posted somewhere on G&C, if you're brave enough to search for it~

 

The forums are cleaner than they used to be. Quite honestly, that's just a fact. The same amount of drama, inside and outside fuwa, secret or not, is still happening since a time where there were much less members than there are now. We were more laid back in the past, where you could put your threads wherever you wanted and all sorts of derailing would happen. Since we've grown bigger, we've been getting slightly stricter over time, though. In fact, I remember some great members leaving because "this place is too serious now".

 

I don't think we are getting more serious. I think having the GC established is a proof of that. Well, we fought our way for it, I think. That being said I guess I am just conparing things when fuwa started and to what's happening today. I was not really able to see how the forum changed after I left. Even today, I rarely post.

 

Fuwa is, however, changing. It's changing every day, whenever a new member enters here. So the question I'd like to pose for all of you- what do you want fuwa to be? Are we about friendliness? Is our main aspect offering VNs? Should we just be a cool place for people to gather to and talk about their hobbies?

 

If you are a new member reading this- what did you like about this place? What motivated you to enter the forums?

 

What fuwa will become depends on all of you together. It doesn't matter what grand plans we might have if the community is going a different way. We've went through a lot and we will still pass through much- some time in the future, I'll look back at this post and fondly remember the "logo changing dorama" as a somewhat funny incident.

 

I wish you all a good night. I could start talking about the grand scheme of things, but I'll just go play some VNs now. Gotta finish Bloody Rondo <3

 

There's much to say but I think this is not the thread for it. Responses in Bold.

 

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People expect us to become some sort of army that'll lead a revolution, that visual novels will become super popular and everyone in the world/internet will know about them, that we're here to build an empire and be the number 1 site ever.

I swear this is the vibe I get from some people.

 

Hyperbole.

 

While Fuwa's goal, or at least motto, is to make visual novels popular, you should be painfully aware that visual novels, no matter how hard you try, are, and will always be niche, at least for the next century (and probably more). The otaku culture itself is niche, visual novels are just a smaller niche within that.

 

Visual novels are a medium and has nothing to do with the Otaku culture. If you’re thinking it’s your job to make ‘Japanese visual novels’ popular, then you’ve got it wrong, that’s only part of the goal.

 

Visual novels are a specific type of story based game, similar to others which have taken off in the West. Interactive fiction, for example, has exploded in recent years with the Walking Dead cited as the end product of this resurgence. Gamebook Adventures was so successful some media outlets termed IF the ‘future of novels’. And a small, indie VN by Christine Love recently netted 32,000 sales, which is significant.

 

There are 70,000 people on VNDB, that’s more than the number of people who raised 4 million dollars for the next Planescape Torment game. It is a decent industry with the potential of far more growth than you expect.

 

Fuwa’s goal is to recognise this and to strive to make Visual Novels popular. It isn’t Fuwa’s goal to say ‘Fuck it, too hard’ before the fight’s even begun. Your vision is one I reject, btw.

 

And another important thing, Fuwanovel is non profit, I'd like to point out that every user, staff or not, is here part time, as a hobby, to try and put some of their available time into Fuwa, wether it is for a project or simply to hang out. Fuwanovel is not some full time job where everyone must be 100% commited and strive for an ultimate goal and sacrifice their daily life for it, we never tried to be that. Everything we do here we do out of goodwill and in our available time and we're not getting any real life benefits for it. That's why stuff takes time, that's why things don't happen instantly, because we don't have all the time in the world to be here, because this is not a full time job. I feel like some people expect too much from some users for no reason and just want more and more stuff to happen all the time and don't even realize how chaotic things get behind the scenes due to it.

 

The "everyone must be committed 100%" part of your argument is a strawman. It's a named logical fallacy. Nobody's arguing this.

 

Furthermore people realise things take time, that's not the issue. The issue is you guys thinking doing nothing but providing a piracy site and a place to chat is all Fuwa should be doing. I am VERY happy Tay realises this is not the case, and I am VERY happy that the site is in HIS hands regarding where it goes, and not the other members of the staff. Speaking of which, what was everybody doing when Steve was practically in charge? I'd love to hear what you were all planning at this point in time. I'm sure SB would love to chip in here regarding the grand vision you were all headed towards.

 

Tay's very limited in time. Extremely so. And yet he's doing more for the site than anybody else here. 

 

Certainly some people here put more effort than others and that is very much recognized and appreciated. But I'd like some people to calm down on the "everything here must and should be for making visual novels popular in the west and everything else is just pointless and silly and every person that's not putting their utmost effort all the time is lazy", because some people seem to think like that and i find it really disrespectful.

 

A strawman argument. Another one.  However if you feel it’s easier for you to argue an IMAGINED argument, knock yourself out. And if you feel your IMAGINED argument is disrespectful... what are we supposed to do about that?

 

I said the STAFF should be for the above goal and I stand by it. Nobody said anything about everybody working towards said goal.

 

The staff gets bashed constantly no matter what they do, I won't even bother answering this part because i'd just get bashed as well and I don't feel like it, but i'd really like to call out to the fact that we're not here to be some sort of hardcore army, we're a community to discuss visual novels and make visual novels more accessible through piracy, that's really the jist of things and how Fuwa came to be.

 

That’s not where Tay is taking things and it’s now his site to direct, but let’s discuss the old Fuwa. The Fuwa which was hated by the entire VN community, the Fuwa which couldn’t get any members and  the Fuwa which had an underlying anti-copyright agenda. Is this the Fuwa you hold so highly?

 

Tay’s got a plan to move Fuwa forward. I am HOPING he has the support of the staff in this.

 

The staff's job is and was always to moderate the forum, that's it, we never had any obligation to make projects, but guess what? We do, we do because we like the community and want to come up with new ideas, but we're human just like all of you, we're not a brainstorm of ideas all the time, we can't come up with anyting and everything because we're only normal people just like you, that's why we like community involvement, that's why, as suggested before, you should always post any ideas you have if you want to make them come true, because we're willing to work with you.

 

Staff are, by definition, working for an organisation. Tay is leading this organisation with a vision, I am hoping the staff are on board and not hindering the process in any way.

 

What we try to work on is ways to make visual novels even more accessible and as a consequence more popular, and right now there are plans for that, but I'd like to call out the fact that none of these plans were obligations, they came out of effort and goodwill and people who expect plans like these to come out of us all the time and at the speed of light really should settle down a bit because we're not anyone's pets, we're people that are here of our own volition to try and be somewhat helpful, but we have no obligation to.

 

Accessible does not equal popular, as I keep saying you're only doing half the job. Furthermore piracy is but ONE way to make VNs more popular, maybe the process will be sped up a little if you stop thinking piracy is the be all and end all.

 

So I'd really appreciate it if some people took into consideration that Fuwa is not meant to be a slavery site where we have to work 24/7 nonstop for "making visual novels popular in the west" because that was never the goal. This is a place where people who have the same likes come togehter and discuss the stuff they like and sometimes form new projects, that's always been it and it will keep being it. No one is forced to do anything.

 

Strawman and logical fallacy.

 

TL;DR: Your argument is full of logical fallacies. Tay's the one dictating where this site is now headed, and it's no longer headed towards a future where piracy and friendliness is the be all and end all. If you have a problem with that, tough. It's Tay's site to lead. While the staff is volunteer you knew this when you signed up for it. If you have a problem with the workload, then nobody is forcing you to do anything. Furthermore, the word 'staff' means a person working for a particular organisation, if there's anyone among you who is not fully on board where Tay is taking things, and are hindering the process, then you're harming the site. I'd consider that.

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Much Text

 

Nope. The word staff means a rod for measuring distances or heights. That's what we are, people.

 

Getting a bit more serious, working for the site does not mean helping with all of it's goals and purposes. We only have to work towards one of them. We became moderators for the sake of moderating the forums, which I have already explained in detail a few posts before. Nothing more. Saying that we have to keep up with any plan of this site is just not true- we got called to become staff members for specific reasons and we're all doing them.

 

Oh, Tay has my support when it comes to his projects. He always did some pretty amazing stuff, after all. However, it is not an obligation of the moderating team to keep up with them. When Steve was in charge, we were doing what we were told to do when we became mods. Nothing less, nothing more. We enforce the rules and deal with reports. Anything else is not part of being a mod and we are doing it out of our own free will.

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I can see where nosey is coming from here, Rooke. It's about tone. I have a feeling you're missing the point due to lack of emotional intelligence...

 

Alright, random stuff:

 

You can actually be effective staff for an organization without necessarily believing in everything it stands for or does (fully on board, yes?). Happens all the time in real life, yknow. Not to mention that Nosebleed has never said he is against Tay in this from what I see, so feels a bit strawmannish to me here.

 

You seem to be speaking for Tay a great deal here. I'd prefer the man himself (maybe I need to listen to those interviews with Ren?)

 

With that said, I do think what you say about being trapped by otaku culture is true. Doesn't seem like a widely held view here, but what the hell. Keep at it.

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Getting a bit more serious, working for the site does not mean helping with all of it's goals and purposes. We only have to work towards one of them. We became moderators for the sake of moderating the forums, which I have already explained in detail a few posts before. Nothing more. Saying that we have to keep up with any plan of this site is just not true- we got called to become staff members for specific reasons and we're all doing them.

 

I'm saying as a worker for the organisation your job is not to HINDER the operation in any way. Tay has a plan for what the site should be, he's already said it's not a democracy, why are you canvassing support for alternative ideas for the site. This irritates me.

 

And until recently you guys weren't even doing moderating properly, which is why people were pissed. And it's part of the reason why discontent was flowing onto the forums. You are right, you were moderators who were sitting back watching spam and abuse flow.

 

You can actually be effective staff for an organization without necessarily believing in everything it stands for or does (fully on board, yes?). Happens all the time in real life, yknow. Not to mention that Nosebleed has never said he is against Tay in this from what I see, so feels a bit strawmannish to me here.

 

You don't have to believe in everything Tay says, you do have to get out of the way and don't hinder the process. And I wasn't directing my comments at Nosebleed. EDIT: The part about giving Tay support.

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I'm saying as a worker for the organisation your job is not to HINDER the operation in any way. Tay has a plan for what the site should be, he's already said it's not a democracy, why are you canvassing support for alternative ideas for the site. This irritates me.

 

And until recently you guys weren't even doing moderating properly, which is why people were pissed. And it's part of the reason why discontent was flowing onto the forums. You are right, you were moderators who were sitting back watching spam and abuse flow.

 

 

You don't have to believe in everything Tay says, you do have to get out of the way and don't hinder the process. And I wasn't directing my comments at Nosebleed.

Hm? Because we let the better ideas rule, of course. Yes, it's not quite a democracy- still, if someone has a good enough idea or a clear vision of what they think should be made to the forums, I'm encouraging them to go ahead and say it. There are changes coming soon, so it's nice to hear the community in general to try and predit possible consequences. And who knows, maybe someone has a magical bullet that will solve all of our problems.

 

That's the thing- we were doing moderating work exactly how we were instructed to, and we are still doing it, except the instructions changed. That's just about it. We don't get to decide the rules or how they are enforced- we just enforce them. Which we were doing. The previous policy was very slow and harder to apply, which could have been the reason why you thought we weren't doing our work properly. The policies are not for us to decide, though.

 

How have we hindered any of his plans, then?

 

As I said before- the drama going on is silly. I find it hilarious that people are trying to bring it to this thread. What was planned will happen. This is just me checking the mood and wishes of the community before things happen, heh~

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The moderator badge saying "Staff" is simply misleading. Reminds me of the FuwAides Naomi wanted, which would've drawn a perfectly clear line between involved community members and the forum's janitors.

 

There's a stark contrast between community perception of the moderator team's involvement, their workload and the fact that most of them don't do much, with a lot of them either working from the shadows or not doing anything at all. This is a completely unbiased statement by the way - that's just the way it is, the same thing can be said about the many administrators-in-name-only. It's something Taylor has brought up many times before that is misunderstood or misinterpreted all the time.

 

Kaguya's right when it comes to responsibilities: There are pretty much none, except for moderating the forums. Just as the name says, right? Wrong. That's what they do, yet on the other hand there's the staff board where at least until a while back things got brought up for discussion between the "staff". That's the silly thing about the moderating team as a whole and where the disconnect between community perception and their actual involvement stems from: They get/got a say in how things should go without the actual responsibility, since they didn't want it.

 

Of course the "team" as a whole gets to feel the frustration of the community when there's such a disconnect between power and responsibility, the forums are in disarray, not much is done about it because of policy, yet the policy simply does not change, since the rules and their changes have to go through the "staff" first. Which is why I'm glad Tay is taking the reins. And it's time to clear house, set moderator and administrator responsibilities in stone once and for all, for better or worse, and get something done.

 

Back to the idea of FuwAides: I think we need a more central leadership (admins), volunteers cleaning up spam and abuse (mods) and more community involvement. Unfortunately I don't have the tools nor the permission to go ahead and create new features on the site itself (yet), so those things will have to be created by the community and brought back in for everyone to enjoy.

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Hm? Because we let the better ideas rule, of course. Yes, it's not quite a democracy- still, if someone has a good enough idea or a clear vision of what they think should be made to the forums, I'm encouraging them to go ahead and say it. There are changes coming soon, so it's nice to hear the community in general to try and predit possible consequences. And who knows, maybe someone has a magical bullet that will sove all of our problems.

 

How have we hindered any of his plans, then?

 

The policy was to 'let the better ideas rule' regarding the METHODS used to carry out the site's aims. These aims were dictated by Aaeru, and now Tay. It was NEVER the policy to let the better ideas of 'what the site should be' rule. That's Tay's domain. Period.

 

You can stop encouraging mass support for an alternative vision for starters.

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The policy was to 'let the better ideas rule' regarding the METHODS used to carry out the site's aims. These aims were dictated by Aaeru, and now Tay. It was NEVER the policy to let the better ideas of 'what the site should be' rule. That's Tay's domain. Period.

 

You can stop encouraging mass support for an alternative vision for starters.

Haaah. Why so serious, really.

 

If you want to go down that route: this is the rules and policies we have. All of them.

Anything else a moderator is doing is just independent action unrelated to the job, which we are allowed to take. I'm free to ask what the community wants and give feedback on whatever I want to. I'm sure Tay wouldn't mind someone coming up to him with some alternative on how the site should be, as long as that person was polite. Yes, Tay chooses what they are. That shouldn't be something to stop us from talking about our own visions from it or alternatives. As you all know very well, he is the type that appreciates new ideas and constructive criticism about his job.

  1. Respect and Civility. No personal attacks, bullying, hate speech, insults, very rude or disrespectful behavior. (This is our #1 rule)

Honestly, I feel like keeping this thread around any longer will just be detrimental to that. I'll just be a good mod and prevent the calimity before it happens, heh~

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