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No more Anime and Manga piracy?


Nosebleed

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When is the nyaa chat section not in chaos?

 

Clearly the most convincing statement.

This website has been sold to the japanese government, data purging will begin in 24 hours from now. RIP NT.

 

Someone said they blocked a site in Japan, so that may be a measure they're going to take.

I genuinely don't see most western sites complying to the DMCAs

Other official sites already tried to purge stuff and to no avail.

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Didn't read all posts too tired.. Anyway in a way this "won't End" piracy but it will suppress it. Of course some will be saddened by this event but in my opinion with what ive seen the amount the company's are losing, im supporting Japan on this one..

I enjoy having Physical Copies of Manga and Anime, although of course it will cost a bit. You got to think a bit forward about that, You buying the series and that money goes towards the next production or something ( sorry just typing whatever pops up)..

Anyway enjoy and we will see how the future Fares.

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I really feel like the whole point of trying to never let us pirate anime/manga again is futile. I do like their purported conclusion being they'll have anime and manga be more readily available for English-Speakers that can't be bothered to learn an inferior language. -shot-

 

Now if only they'd realize this for, oh, visual novels. I'd be more ready to buy them if I can get official translations. That won't happen anytime soon, however. If only because the first time they sent one over states-side the media over-exaggerated the fact that there was sexual content that was explicitly stated to exist in that game.

 

But, in short, I support the reason they stated. Hopefully it will lead to VNs being more readily available to the Western Market as well.

 

EDIT:

To clear up any confusion, I support the creators of the content over the publishers any day. That's where I draw my opinion for this idea.

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k well this is fucked if Diaz is for real on Nyaa .........

If what they're saying is true, there will be no more Nyaa tomorrow. :( Check the chat box stickies on the torrent site.

The stickies that are YouTube videos?

The clearly sarcastic ones ;)

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Just read the comments section of this article. These people are so goddamn stupid. One guy thinks that anyone who pirates should be sued and should go to jail. What a fucking moron.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/08/01/expendables-3-leak-leads-to-lionsgate-lawsuit

Woah, calm down.

 

Besides, people can actually go to jail if they pirate.

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Why? You downloaded a film or album from a torrent site. Does that REALLY mean you deserve to go to the same place where they house rapists, killers, and actual criminals?

I'm not saying I agree, I'd have to put myself into jail. Just that it's the law, so no wonder some people think it's alright.

Jail is a pretty stupid punishment for that kind of stuff, and obviously the guy who commented on it didn't really think about what he was saying. I'm not gonna call him a moron in public places for that.

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I have thought it over and you are right about one thing, I should give you a chance in hopes this is a legit discussion.

 

So discuss away, if it devolves into a mess or a flame war, I will remove those offending posts and hand out warnings.

 

If the discussion is civil and progressive, then we will all be better and wiser for it.

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The question isn't "Is Piracy wrong?" Because Piracy is stealing and by extension that is wrong. That's if the world is black and white. The world can actually be rather black and white if you let it. But, we don't because people dislike binary options for one reason or another.

 

This shade of grey is coined as "If the English/Foreign Viewers cannot obtain it legally, how else can they watch it?" and that's the question they are trying to answer. They aren't trying to control the internet. They are trying to allow the makers of this to be given the money for their work.

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I am so sick and tired of people calling piracy stealing. For the thousandth time, IT IS NOT. Stealing would be going to a store and shoplifting. You're depriving the store of physical items. Items that cost actual money to manufacture, package, send out, etc. Online piracy is going to a torrent site and downloading a DIGITAL COPY of something that cost nothing. For example, if I checked out a CD at the library, ripped it to iTunes (which is a perfectly legal piece of software, BTW), and then returned the CD, what exactly have I stolen? I could lend that CD to a hundred people, have them rip it, and then return it to the library. The way I see it, pirating a film/anime, watching it, and then deleting it off your hard drive is no different.

 

The act of piracy itself is not stealing. The real question, IMO, is artists making money off their work. For me personally, it depends on the quality of the product. I've pirated a lot of films in my day, and the ones that I like, I usually go out and buy eventually. Why? Because I liked the film, believe that the maker is worthy of my money, and because I want a physical copy. A torrent on Pirate Bay does not have the full experience. It has a compressed bare bones video file and nothing else. A Blu-Ray though has the benifit of optimal picture and sound, deluxe extras and pacaking, etc. Think of torrenting a movie also as a try before you buy kind of thing.

 

Well, let's not look at the term "Piracy" then. Let's look at the definition of stealing. Google: "Define steal" and you shall see:

"take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it."

 
So, when you go to the library to borrow the Compact Disc's music, that in and of itself is perfectly fine. Because you're intending to return the music on the disc. If you want to borrow a compact disc, that's fine I can give you one. However, you wish to go to the library and obtain the CD for its music. Which when you refuse to buy it, you're denying people of their hard work. Also, according to the iTunes ToS you intend to buy, or have already bought, the rights to play that music from the CD you're uploading. So if you do not intend to return the music on the disc, which we shall ignore for your decree that it isn't stealing since you merely are ripping the music that took a few months to write and record that took work of either the band of four, or several people writing their songs for them.
 
 

ToS Quote Source

ELECTRONIC CONTRACTING

Your use of the Services includes the ability to enter into agreements and/or to make transactions electronically. YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOUR ELECTRONIC SUBMISSIONS CONSTITUTE YOUR AGREEMENT AND INTENT TO BE BOUND BY AND TO PAY FOR SUCH AGREEMENTS AND TRANSACTIONS. YOUR AGREEMENT AND INTENT TO BE BOUND BY ELECTRONIC SUBMISSIONS APPLIES TO ALL RECORDS RELATING TO ALL TRANSACTIONS YOU ENTER INTO ON THIS SITE, INCLUDING NOTICES OF CANCELLATION, POLICIES, CONTRACTS, AND APPLICATIONS. In order to access and retain your electronic records, you may be required to have certain hardware and software, which are your sole responsibility.

 

So, assuming that you aren't breaking the law by borrowing a CD that happens to have music on it that you wish to obtain for yourself; you are breaking your contract with apple that you agreed to in order to use their iTunes store. But, then again, you had no intention of returning the Music on the CD instead keeping the music for yourself. Which is under the definition of stealing.

 

 

Most of the films I pirate though are old or foreign films to begin with. Alfred Hitchock for example is long dead, so it dosen't make a difference to me if I pirate those films. The way copyright law works in the US isn't something I support either. The majority of profits go to a bunch of gray suit executive leeches that did NOTHING to create the IPs. These people don't deserve a cent of the profits. This is also why I don't pirate indie projects because there's no middle man or anyone else stopping the original creators from getting the revenue.

 

That's where you're getting into the territory of abandonware. Which is where I say if you cannot obtain it by legal means (Going to a video store and buying it from the shelf) I don't see a problem with it mainly from the fact that yes, Hitchcock is dead. However, we are not speaking of age old movies and cinema. We're speaking of anime here and now. And while you dislike the fact that most of the money goes to the big grey suits, have you considered that maybe the people who work under the big greys are perfectly fine where they are in the company and still need to live and feed their families? So by saying "I don't buy from big corporations because most of the money* goes to the higher-ups" is like saying "I don't want people who worked on this project to get any money at all whatsoever." Now, this is black-and-white, but I'm not getting into that part of the argument yet. I'll get there soon enough.

 

*Most of the money represents a majority of the money. For all we know, the Big Greys can get 51% while the workers get 49%

 

Hell, look at the site we're on right now. Fuwanovel gives us torrents of visual novels because it's a very niche genre of games and because many of these don't have official releases. This site is how I've been able to experience some of the greatest stories ever told. And you know what? I bought Steins;Gate LE on launch day when it came out. That was directly based off my experience playing the game from Fuwa. JAST USA and 5pb just scored a purchase off of me DIRECTLY BECAUSE of piracy. Piracy spreads the word of films and games. Not only that, but it can actually influence other people in buying the official product. While of course there are always going to be cheap people that don't want to give back, the majority of the pirates that I've talked to aren't like that. Whether they realize it or not, they do support companies either directly or indirectly.

 

And that's what Japan is trying to ultimately fix. They realize that "Oh hey these people are pirating these anime, let's try and find a way to support the developers." While yes you are able to purchase based on an informed decision due to your digital piracy, and I commend you on being able to do such, Japan is trying to make it so then we will be able to skip the digital piracy altogether and obtain it from the gate.

 

Fuwanovel wouldn't be as big as it is if we were able to legally obtain the games with no issue at all. Hell, I've bought plenty of my VNs that had an official English Translation. (Nurse Maid, Snow Sakura) and I enjoyed it. The money went to the developers, I was happy with my purchases and moved on it life.

 

Finally, I have a very big problem with your idea that the world is black and white. No, no, no. Things are not, and have never been that simple. NOTHING in life is simple. You're deluding yourself or taking the blind easy road if you believe that. People want to be spoonfed simple and easy answers. They WANT to see things as black and white because it hurts too much to think. Don't be like that. Examine issues from ALL sides look at ALL evidence before making an opinion. I used to be an anti-pirate. But when I discovered how many facets on this issue there are, how broken copyright law is, and how without piracy, I'd be cut off from a lot of entertainment, I changed my stance. Please, don't look at things so black and white. Piracy isn't a black and white issue, as demonstrated by the points I've presented.

 

First to your final, attacking the person who has the argument is not proper arguing technique. I'm not trying to attack you. I'm trying to inform you so next time when you present an argument you can be more effective. Or asking in desperation because I'm saying something you dislike to change sides. I'm not against piracy, I'm against not giving credit where credit is due. If that credit is monetary, or just a simple "was this person" I'd be fine with it.

 

Now onward...

 

I cannot see things from all sides and all evidence because I am not omnipotent at all. You can link me articles and other things, but they all have a bias one way or the other. I don't want to see things black and white in the world. I really don't. I just realize that if you're so busy trying to see the world in shades of grey, you'll be worrying too much about what others are doing and you'll make excuses for you doing something ultimately wrong. Hell, I've seen myself do it when I insisted the world was grey.

 

My point is the reason I see the world in black and white is because two wrongs don't make a right. Is it right to steal? No. Is it right to steal from a rich man? No. Is it right to steal from a poor man? No. Is it right to kill someone? No. Is it right to kill someone who did a lot of wrong? No. Is it right to kill someone who did a lot of right? No.

 

Is it right to give money to the people who work to deserve it? Yes. Is it right to give money to the people who did the heavy lifting of a project? Yes. Is it right to give money to the people who did the more mental work? Yes. Is it right to help someone in need? Yes. Is it right to help someone who wants help? Yes. Is it right to help someone when they don't ask for it? No, because they didn't ask for help. Is it right to help someone when they ask for help? Yes.

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How can you return a digital copy though? That only goes for a physical object or something like land. For that reason, that's why I don't consider piracy stealing. The original owner still has the original copy.

 

You are coming up with a lie to hide the fact that you are stealing. Elaborated below.

 

 

Well to begin with, artists see very little revenue from CD's/digital music sales. It goes to the gray suits (I'll get to this in a bit) that run the record label. So for the people who actually worked on the music, they're not seeing much profit to begin with. I'll say this though. A lot of the music I listen to is either decades old with the band members deceased or music from Japan. With the latter, I can't exactly walk into a record store and buy the soundtracks that I want because it's not in my country. I'll import online if I have the cash, but the high prices and shipping costs make this very difficult to do (I'll also get to this in a moment.)

 

So you're saying: "Let's stick it to the man by denying the people who toiled away at hard work and used counted time to try and feed their family their small pay." That's what you're telling me.

 

 

Yeah, no. The majority of these corporation owners are filthy rich. I call them gray suits for that exact reason. They're a bunch of well off men that make money off of the work of others. Now I'm not exactly anti-captalist, but that's one part of the system that I cannot agree with. Look at the Avengers and how much money that film make. MILLIONS of people pirated that film. Do you honestly think that Mr. John Smith Gray Suit who profits off the billions that Hollywood makes every year is going be unable to feed his family?

 

But we're not talking about Mr. John Smith Gray Suit. We're talking about Mr. Jim Bob Green Tie who works for Mr. John Smith Gray Suit and pays for his family's expenses because he works for Mr. John Smith Gray Suit. Do you think he. with his apparently low pay check, likes the fact that you're stealing the Avenger's from his boss? Thus denying him of his source of revenue from his boss.

 

 

Doubtful, IMO. Because Japan takes forever in making changes like this. But if they do manage to do it, then I hope it's cheap and efficient.

 

 

That's something that unfortunately won't change. Visual novels are too niche for there to be any kind of change in the West. On the rare occasions when VNs do get localized, I encourage people to support the companies. But really, piracy with fan translations is going to be the only real route for the indefinite future.

 

We need to show them there is a market. Too bad we're too busy pirating things instead of pirating and asking for them to localize them. If we let this go through, that might actually happen. It's much more likely than if they decide against it, that's for damn sure. They think it's not worth the time to translate them as well as the fact most of the games are rated AO (Adults Only) and thus American Citizens tend to not enjoy games rated higher than M (Mature).

 

 

I'm sorry, but thinking with such a black and white viewpoint isn't something I support. I absolutely hate it when people think that way. It doesn't examine all sides of the issue.

 

 

Is it wrong for a woman to steal bread for her starving children? Is wrong to steal from a rich man who enslaves people? Is it wrong to kill someone in self defense?

 

Viewing things in black and white isn't made to examine all sides of the issue. It's actually much better at viewing it case by case than your purported "grey." To explain:

 

Yes. It is wrong for her to steal. It's good for her to care for her children, but that doesn't mean I should condone stealing. Instead: give her the bread to prevent her from stealing. Otherwise we're just like Mr. John Smith Grey Suit. Keeping our fortunes while denying those who need it.

 

Yes, it is wrong to steal from a slaver. It's wrong for him to have slaves, on a societal level. If we go to when slavery was well practiced and okay, then it's wrong to steal from him regardless. However, free the enslaved, don't steal from the rich man. 

 

I do not condone killing in all but one situation: There is no other option. If the only way a man to ensure his survival while he is being assaulted by a woman that intends to kill him is to kill her, than he must do so.

 

Ultimately viewing the world in black and white does better than the grey because we can objectively say "He killed someone and that is wrong" rather than "He killed someone to avenge the death of his family, and that's perfectly acceptable" because at what point will raping a someone become acceptable? You say that the world is much more complex than it is. So obviously the human has a perfectly acceptable reason to force their sexual lust onto another human.

 

That's the kind of shit you ultimately encourage when you say "Grey is the way" because in the end all it causes is confusion and uncertainty. I lived in a grey world and frankly it's much more confusing than black and white. If I choose the shorter road that is easier to traverse, does that make me any less intelligent than the human who chooses the longer and more complicated road simply because it is ultimately easier to follow?

 

Yes, grey is easy. Why? It gives you an excuse to justify the fact that you're stealing.

 

Now, then, instead of getting into an argument over why piracy is bad, which I originally stated was not my intent at all, I apologize if it came across as such. I was trying to say that "Well, they're trying to fix a problem so that people who can make money can make the money they need to make."

 

 

Doubtful, IMO. Because Japan takes forever in making changes like this. But if they do manage to do it, then I hope it's cheap and efficient.

 

Most of the films I pirate though are old or foreign films to begin with. Alfred Hitchock for example is long dead, so it dosen't make a difference to me if I pirate those films. The way copyright law works in the US isn't something I support either. The majority of profits go to a bunch of gray suit executive leeches that did NOTHING to create the IPs. These people don't deserve a cent of the profits. This is also why I don't pirate indie projects because there's no middle man or anyone else stopping the original creators from getting the revenue.

 

Also, were we talking about U.S. Law or Japanese Law? I got mixed up over the fact that we went from the Japanese Anime Corporations trying to allow us, international viewers, to view their products legally to American Copyright Law apparently having something to do with something from, made, and sold, in Japan. Can you clarify that for me?

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Steal v. 1) to take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.

 

Pirate v. 1) use or reproduce (another's work) for profit without permission, usually in contravention of patent or copyright.

 

They're technically different, but not in the way you put it. For the most part these terms are interchangeable, and as long as the product is copyrighted, even if they want you to pirate it, both are considered crime. It's not about the morality or integrity of doing them, it's about protocol. Whether or not something deserves to be pirated (or "stolen") is another argument entirely.

 

...one that I'm too lazy to participate in.

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Honestly I wouldn't mind paying some fee but website will have to be good. I was member on crunchyroll but they didn't host many shows I like so I cancel membership.

I am also really sure that piracy won't stop and Japan just trying to make a big fuss about it. I do like idea of supporting developers and creators of Anime and manga. let's face it, more money they make more shows they can bring.

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I am already buying what I can with the money I earn. Mangagamer and JAST on the Internet for example and random stuff on conventions etc. 

 

I know I am doing something illegal when I DL an anime but I can't afford to buy every single thing. It's the same with western games and movies. I pay for what I think it is worth paying for and the rest will be DL when a decent torrent is available.

 

I think my anime/VN collection could be worth thousands of dollar. I saw an animestore with animes/movies etc. on a recent convention which I thought I could buy an anime with 24 episodes (Girlz und Panzer) for 400 kronor (around 60 dollars). Just imagine me buying the whole Naruto, One Piece and Fairy Tail. I would be ruined.

 

Crunchyroll and such sites isn't an option at the moment either. They lack a lot of titles (not that big of a thing) and they got license restrictions in my country. I would gladly use a site and pay for it just like I do with Spotify if the supply was good enough.

 

I don't see myself as a criminal in that aspect. I am trying to get my stuff legally but it is so hard. So in lack of good options I piracy a lot.

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Steal v. 1) to take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.

 

Pirate v. 1) use or reproduce (another's work) for profit without permission, usually in contravention of patent or copyright.

 

They're technically different, but not in the way you put it. For the most part these terms are interchangeable, and as long as the product is copyrighted, even if they want you to pirate it, both are considered crime. It's not about the morality or integrity of doing them, it's about protocol. Whether or not something deserves to be pirated (or "stolen") is another argument entirely.

 

...one that I'm too lazy to participate in.

 

Actually there is a considerable difference between the two, at least in the U.S.  Other countries may vary.  In America, theft is a crime, and piracy is not.  Cops will not arrest you for piracy in the U.S. any more than a company will sue you for theft.  Civil and criminal law are completely separate, with copyright infringement(what "piracy" actually falls under) lying on one side of the divide with theft falling on the other.

 

This has no bearing on whether media piracy is morally wrong or unethical, but it does mean that equating piracy with theft is a bad thing to do in an argument if you want to be taken seriously.  They are not the same thing.

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