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Zalor

The need for a VN Development Promotion Forum

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I've noticed that over the past couple of weeks there have been more threads created that either advertise new western made VNs, or threads that are scouting for people to participate in making a VN. In the past I've noticed that threads like these were not as common, however recently they've gotten far more in number. (Which is great!) But a big problem I see is that most of the time these threads get quickly forgotten. I found a number of these threads (which I will link to later) and only one of them is on the first page of threads in the Visual Novel Talk forum. This is bad. Fuwa's goal is to make Visual Novels more popular in the west, and garnishing the support for new western developed VNs is a must. While a fair amount of us (including myself) discovered VNs because we were already interested in other Japanese related things (anime and Japanese video games) I also know a lot of people in this community had Katawa Shoujo to thank as their first VN. Katawa Shoujo, a western produced VN. People can complain that most western VNs are inferior to Japanese ones, but the best way to popularize VNs in the west is through western VNs. Unlike most visual novels, several semi-popular Youtube channels gave Katawa Shoujo exposure in someway or another. The reason Katawa Shoujo was getting this exposure by westerners was because it is western. Now I am fully aware that most western VNs don't compare to Katawa Shoujo, but my point is that western VNs provide western exposure to the medium that is often too difficult for a Japanese VN to accomplish (no matter how good it is). 

 

One of the main problems with forcing those who want to provide exposure for a VN project to post their thread on Visual Novel Talk is that often the VN they are promoting is still being developed, and there may not even be a demo released. Meaning they start the thread not with the intention to discuss the VN, but to promote it. This contradicts the reason most people go on Visual Novel Talk (to talk about the music, story, characters, and art of VNs they have already read). Thus the topics that promote a VN quickly sink into obscurity. In fact in my archiving of relatively recent threads that promote VNs there were a few interesting ones I missed entirely simply because I was away from my computer for a few days on a short vacation. It saddens me the most when one of the threads I read (https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/5359-sunrider-part-1-was-just-publically-released/) was started by a guy who works on the development team of the VN he was promoting and how that topic lasted for only 8 days. The person saw Fuwa as a potential source for receiving exposure for his VN and we as a community (including myself although I did play the demo) disappointed him. Fuwanovel should be a place where VN developers can advertise their VNs without their threads being forgotten in mere days. Also, to further illustrate why Visual Novel Talk is not a good forum for those who want to promote VNs, the discussion of the VN the guy was promoting turned into a critique of the VNs writing. The guy wasn't even a writer for the VN! But can you blame people for critiquing a VN when that's the reason that people go to Visual Novel Talk? No you can't. The problem was that the OP simply wanted to promote the VN, not discuss it. There was a conflict of interests. Those reading the thread wanted to talk about the VN, meanwhile the creator of the thread just wanted to promote his VN.  A VN Development Promotion forum would be the ideal place for these posts. For one, the purpose of visiting such a forum would be to see what new VNs are being developed. Two, since these topics aren't as common as most Visual Novel Talk topics, they would be able to last longer on the first page results (which would lead to more exposure).     

 

Here are links to the threads I found promoting VNs within the first three pages of history on VN Discussion: 

 

https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/5359-sunrider-part-1-was-just-publically-released/

 

https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/5580-maze-the-visual-novel-development/

 

https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/4039-kendo-crush-kickstarter/

 

https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/4543-the-lucid9-project-a-new-amateur-vn-project/

 

https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/5214-fault-milestone-one-kickstarter/

 

https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/5511-helping-a-friend-ehem-with-his-vn-endeavors/

 

https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/2957-violet-hill-community-based-visual-novel-project/

 

(this last link links to the one topic that actually managed to stay on the front page and has 6 pages of replies, however most topics promoting a VN aren't this lucky). 

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*cough* We should make a partnership with lemmasoft *cough*

 

The problem with these OELVNs is that they often aren't available for free and the quality is lower than the ones made by big japanese companies who have the funds and the money to make them.

 

*cough* But once again there is a website made escpecially for them *cough*

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I'm not sure promoting original VN projects is so important it's worth its own forum.  Though I'm surely biased since I don't play OELVNs, I'm not terribly enthused about the Fuwanovel forums becoming a place for Indie developers to run marketing campaigns, so to speak.  I think it's important to support fan projects, but the key there is that these projects are unpaid nonprofit.

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*cough* We should make a partnership with lemmasoft *cough*

 

The problem with these OELVNs is that they often aren't available for free and the quality is lower than the ones made by big japanese companies who have the funds and the money to make them.

 

*cough* But once again there is a website made escpecially for them *cough*

 

I know of Lemmasoft, but my point is that I feel Fuwanovel should be a community where people can promote VNs as well. When the goal is to make Visual Novels more popular in the west, and I think making it easier for people who want to promote western VNs would be a good thing.

 

 

I'm not sure promoting original VN projects is so important it's worth its own forum.  Though I'm surely biased since I don't play OELVNs, I'm not terribly enthused about the Fuwanovel forums becoming a place for people to run marketing campaigns, so to speak.  I think it's important to support fan projects, but the key there is that these projects are nonprofit.

 

People are going to post promotions for their VNs on this site regardless. Even if you don't like it, at least with its won forum you won't have to put up with it. (Just avoid the forum).

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People are going to post promotions for their VNs on this site regardless. Even if you don't like it, at least with its won forum you won't have to put up with it. (Just avoid the forum).

That's true enough.  Ironically, a subforum is at once both an opportunity to highlight topics and remove them from sight.

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It's overkill. We don't have enough VN development teams here for them to warrant a forum of their own. This can just happen in VN talk or GD, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

I'm against adding any more forums at the moment. It'd just make the site layout overly complicated and there isn't enough demand for any new forum right now.

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It's overkill. We don't have enough VN development teams here for them to warrant a forum of their own. This can just happen in VN talk or GD, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

I'm against adding any more forums at the moment. It'd just make the site layout overly complicated and there isn't enough demand for any new forum right now.

Didn't know a little line of text underneath a forum was such a complicated addition to the layout. 

 

That aside, we don't exactly need this yet, but as the place grows, it might be prudent to have such a forum. So nipping it in the bud now wouldn't be a terrible thing. 

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It's overkill. We don't have enough VN development teams here for them to warrant a forum of their own. This can just happen in VN talk or GD, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

I'm against adding any more forums at the moment. It'd just make the site layout overly complicated and there isn't enough demand for any new forum right now.

c3d0981ae770f926eedf4eda7505b006.jpeg

 

This is something that desperately needs some visibility, I remind you of the podcast with Taylor and the stigma of GC - that's really not where they belong. I'd probably go for a subforum in VN Discussion because that's the kind of content that shouldn't be buried by discussion in either GC or the main VN forum to promote those projects. If need be there's always the option to slim down the layout a bit from having a quick glance at the forum's CSS.

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c3d0981ae770f926eedf4eda7505b006.jpeg

 

This is something that desperately needs some visibility, I remind you of the podcast with Taylor and the stigma of GC - that's really not where they belong. I'd probably go for a subforum in VN Discussion because that's the kind of content that shouldn't be buried by discussion in either GC or the main VN forum to promote those projects. If need be there's always the option to slim down the layout a bit from having a quick glance at the forum's CSS.

I never said it belonged in G&C, though.

The thing is- how many projects like that we have here that are currently happening? 2? 5?

I wouldn't agree with making a subforum for so few projects.

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I never said it belonged in G&C, though.

The thing is- how many projects like that we have here that are currently happening? 2? 5?

I wouldn't agree with making a subforum for so few projects.

Why not? It would promote them better. Also scroll up, Zalor found 7 on just the first 3 pages. Good job reading the post. Your avatar might want some better glasses if that is the extent of your reading ability ;)

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Why not? It would promote them better. Also scroll up, Zalor found 7 on just the first page. Good job reading the post. Your avatar might want some better glasses if that is the extent of your reading ability ;)

By "currently happening" I meant the active projects that are getting lots of feedback and such- A lot of those are more ideas than anything.

 

Oh well, if you really want to make a subforum go ahead. I just think it's unecessary.

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By "currently happening" I meant the active projects that are getting lots of feedback and such- A lot of those are more ideas than anything.

 

Oh well, if you really want to make a subforum go ahead. I just think it's unecessary.

Keep in mind posting times. There are absolutely certain times of the day when a new topic can get shoved all the way to the bottom, while other times, no one is even online to post. Having a OELVN subforum really has no downside to it at all that I can think of and your resistance to it just seem rather pointless. 

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GD and G&C are effectively the same thing - a dump for everything that doesn't have a proper place (or is just entirely random and spammy in nature, sure), and if you're telling me VN development is not relevant to the site and community...

 

wat.jpg

 

Is all that I can say to that.

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GD and G&C are effectively the same thing - a dump for everything that doesn't have a proper place (or is just entirely random and spammy in nature, sure), and if you're telling me VN development is not relevant to the site and community...

 

wat.jpg

 

Is all that I can say to that.

I did say VN talk or GD- VN talk for actual teams making VNs and GD for stuff like "hey, is there any artist to help me?" and discussion of story concepts that may or may not become VNs.

 

You can see the sections as dump if you want to, but I think GD is a proper section, at least. There's a bunch of cool stuff there.

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@Zalor

 

It's not that I don't want or that anybody in the community doesn't want people making VN's or promoting their work on fuwanovel. Hell no !

 
If people want to promote VN's here, I'm totally fine with it. But there is such a little number that making a subforum without a partnership with Lemmasoft seems strange to me. If I recall correctly Fuwa was originally intended to be a sister site to Lemma, which I think was a great idea !
 

You can redirect them on Lemmasoft where the audience is a lot more incline to promoting and helping them with their project because it's an older website with experienced people in Visual Novel making.

 

Another reason is that until now fuwa has focused on promoting fan-translation. You don't translate OELVN's do you ?

 

I have a really hard time writting down my ideas ... but the point is : I want to promote OELVNs but I think right now it's not the best website for it. Simply because this is a Japanese VN oriented community (this isn't a policy, it's a fact -_^). However, with a partnership, we can make things work out better if people want - for any strange reason - to advertise here.

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I did say VN talk or GD- VN talk for actual teams making VNs and GD for stuff like "hey, is there any artist to help me?" and discussion of story concepts that may or may not become VNs.

 

You can see the sections as dump if you want to, but I think GD is a proper section, at least. There's a bunch of cool stuff there.

2432476-6585431498-micha.gif

 

Putting OELVN talk in general discussion. Nice logic. 

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I thought it's always been Fuwanovel's policy to have the least amount of subforums as possible to keep things less cluttered so that's something to keep in mind.

As far as the need for a subforum for this, I don't mind it personally, it wouldn't harm me so I'm not against it in any way.

 

The way I see it is simple:

Benefits:

  • More exposure (even if it's just "Oh look a new subforum, let's check it out" it's still exposure)
  • Show people there's a place to advertise their projects where their threads won't get overthrown by other types of unrelated discussion, thus motivating them to advertise their projects.

 

Downsides:

  • Forum clutter

 

 

It's two benefits versus one downside.

I'm not against the forum, doesn't harm me in any way so I have no reason to oppose it and the downsides of it could quickly be overlooked since it's not that big to begin with.

 

And keep in mind we can just do a trial run, it doesn't need to be permanent at first, and see how things are going.

If it's deemed needless then we get rid of it.

If it shows promise then we keep it.

 

Shouldn't be too complicated. That's my opinion.

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Those so called "OELVN's" have their own place at Lemmasoft forums. Fuwanovel discusses vn's in general, nor isn't any sort of a gamedev community. You're ringing the bell in a wrong place. That said, if people want to advertise their projects, be it commercial, fanmade or non-profit, they have all the rights to do so and no one's stopping them. In fact, they are already doing it.

 

I'm not up for a separate subforum, though; there's no reason for it to exist on Fuwanovel, at least not now and not yet.

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Those so called "OELVN's" have their own place at Lemmasoft forums. Fuwanovel discusses vn's in general, nor isn't any sort of a gamedev community. You're ringing the bell in a wrong place. That said, if people want to advertise their projects, be it commercial, fanmade or non-profit, they have all the rights to do so and no one's stopping them. In fact, they are already doing it.

 

I'm not up for a separate subforum, though; there's no reason for it to exist on Fuwanovel, at least not now and not yet.

Fuwanovel promotes the growth of VNs in the Western market. Working with OELVNs is yet another way of doing it. This is just a way to group them together for better visibility, while removing them from the main VN forum for those who think they clutter that forum up (or just dont care about OELVNs)

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Fuwanovel promotes the growth of VNs in the Western market. Working with OELVNs is yet another way of doing it. This is just a way to group them together for better visibility, while removing them from the main VN forum for those who think they clutter that forum up (or just dont care about OELVNs)

 

Fuwanovel promotes sharing of VNs in the western community. Marketing is completely unrelated to that.

I would however agree that it might not be a bad idea to separate them to distinguish the projects that are free in volunteer section and the projects that are commercial or raising funds (in a subsection of VN talk). However I don't think there is enough of the latter to justify its own subforum just yet.

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Answer me this you anti- subforum people. Why the actual fuck is having another sub forum such a bad thing? It is literally a few lines of text extra. Is it because you might have to work a little more to make sure things are in the right place? God forbid a mod actually have to work a little at something instead of spamming lolis all day and spouting lies and anti-change bullshit. 

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I thought it's always been Fuwanovel's policy to have the least amount of subforums as possible to keep things less cluttered so that's something to keep in mind.

 

The forum's main page might be less cluttered by not adding sub forms, but as a consequence the actual forums are more cluttered. Promotions and western VN development projects currently do clutter up VN talk. I think this would actually organize things more. On top of that if VNs are getting more popular (which is the main point) then there will hopefully be more future projects and it would be convenient to have a place for them. 

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Answer me this you anti- subforum people. Why the actual fuck is having another sub forum such a bad thing? It is literally a few lines of text extra. Is it because you might have to work a little more to make sure things are in the right place? God forbid a mod actually have to work a little at something instead of spamming lolis all day and spouting lies and anti-change bullshit.

Shocked.gif

burrrrn

But seriously, think about it as having more folders to find things quicker instead of searching and crawling through a huge folder that serves as a dump for pretty much everything.

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