Man Behind the Curtain - Tay + OriginalRen Chats

[babiker]

Hahaha. That was a little embarrassing now that I'm listening to myself. Next time we'll cut down on interruptions so it comes across clearer. Both of us had notes, but the whole conversation effect can warp the delivery a little. (Part of this is my fault -- I always bring talking points and Ren does a good job humoring me, but when I get sidetracked during my spiels the flow gets obfuscated). I'll get better, guys! Promise! Don't give up on me yet!

Oh, also -- I keep getting PMs about how people like the Fuwa History lessons. I don't think you realize that if you keep telling me that, I'll keep droning on and on about it ; )

Dude. These episodes just get better and better. I want more history!! Plus, can we just forget about the community and turn this into the "Taycast"? Or am I the only one who enjoys them as hell?

[arakura]

I also love the history. These have been particularly good, I like hearing Tay talk about his passions and the history of the site and visual novels in the west, because I'm new to the scene compared to him and the people he worked with. It's also interesting to hear about how it will change in the future.

[Cyrillej1]

Thank you Tay & Ren for doing the podcasts. I listened to both of them and they were interesting

[Steve]

moving again towards the end goal of supporting and promoting Visual Novels (and VN elements) in the West.

Which was never the goal in the first place As explained here and in some of the last posts and decisions Aaeru made before she left (some invisible). It is not about supporting and promoting, it is about sharing and giving away what you can, like your work on TL projects and other things.

It is funny however, because it almost makes Fuwanovel a religion with how differently some people interpret the words of our creator Just like it was with real religions, it was the most powerful who were deciding what the "correct" interpretation of the texts are xD

Oh well...

 

I feel it will be a shame if the changes will be so huge that it won't feel like home to me anymore

 

Indeed, I share the same concerns, fuwa has been a great home for me for years, but as it goes in the 3d world, everything nice has an end one day - But its not over yet, that is why we, members, have to make our voices heard. Surely they cannot be ignored forever... or can they? :/

In the end we might need to resort to what other religions have too, prayers.

[Darklord Rooke]

Wonderful podcast Ren, Tay. Looking forward to seeing those changes... whatever they may be

[Zalor]

Wow, I didn't realize that there was so much drama involved in running this site. Not being a moderator or part of the staff myself I only see how happy and peaceful things are for the most part. In any case I'm glad to hear that Tay is standing firm and is unwilling to compromise his views. He's a good leader, I trust him. 

 

 

Which was never the goal in the first place As explained here and in some of the last posts and decisions Aaeru made before she left (some invisible). It is not about supporting and promoting, it is about sharing and giving away what you can, like your work on TL projects and other things.

 

While I love getting free visual novels, and as a member of this site I really do like this view; seeing things from the point of views as an administrator I think it is wisest not to interfere and damage growth in the market of translated VNs. One of the reason's Animesuki is such a popular anime site is because they have been around for a while and only share unlicensed stuff. If more VNs get translated in the west we would be in a similar position that AnimeSuki was in a decade or so ago. If this decision worked so well for Animesuki, as an admin I would want to emulate what they did.

 

However, lets not get too off topic. In the end I trust whatever Tay has planned for this site and community.    

[OriginalRen]

Which was never the goal in the first place As explained here and in some of the last posts and decisions Aaeru made before she left (some invisible). It is not about supporting and promoting, it is about sharing and giving away what you can, like your work on TL projects and other things.

It is funny however, because it almost makes Fuwanovel a religion with how differently some people interpret the words of our creator Just like it was with real religions, it was the most powerful who were deciding what the "correct" interpretation of the texts are xD

Oh well...

 

Indeed, I share the same concerns, fuwa has been a great home for me for years, but as it goes in the 3d world, everything nice has an end one day - But its not over yet, that is why we, members, have to make our voices heard. Surely they cannot be ignored forever... or can they? :/

In the end we might need to resort to what other religions have too, prayers.

I would like to begin by saying that I was extremely offended by this post, so much so that I would almost call your comments a form of near racism. You always mention how everything in the 3D world is evil, yet never stop to consider the things you say regarding this.

This is exactly the reason we addressed the unification of Fuwanovel in these episodes and why we are hosting this series of the podcast. These comments are simply promoting a culture where being divided is a good thing. I do not recall, nor have I ever heard, Tay state that in his effort to change Fuwanovel that we cannot share what we love with others around us. Just because site changes are going to be implemented does not mean you can't enjoy giving things to the community for the joy of others. You yourself as the project lead of the Hoshizora no Memoria translation, a project which need I remind you is promoted on this site, should understand this. You are promoting that game, making people happy by having others translate and edit the project. They do it because they enjoy doing it, not because they want to promote visual novels. The same is true for the projects I do (as I stated clearly in the podcast). They are done because I want people to enjoy themselves; nothing is preventing me from sharing them with the site.

So before you go around making comments on how this is the end and that you and a few others are the last vestiges of hope for the community, stop and listen to what is actually being said.

[sanahtlig]

This is exactly the reason we addressed the unification of Fuwanovel in these episodes and why we are hosting this series of the podcast. These comments are simply promoting a culture where being divided is a good thing.

Unity was certainly a talking point of the podcast.  While unity has it uses, so does dissent (and Tay has acknowledged that also in the podcasts in his choice of moderators).  Being able to consider an issue from multiple perspectives is so valuable, we even have a term for it in business: diversity.  The best of both worlds is being able to unite to work towards a common goal, without losing the diversity of ideas that drives innovation and thoughtful discussion.

 

That said, I do find barefaced allusions to Aaeru as some sort of prophet in a cult--by her own followers--to be disconcerting.  Aaeru made many many enemies of people from all walks of life, even pirate communities.  I think it's worth reflecting on how she managed to make so many enemies given the relative moderateness of her actions compared to other thriving pirate communities.  Wherever she went Aaeru sowed division in the VN community, not unity.  Our viewpoints diverged so much in this respect that Aaeru once called me a "collectivist", which is ironic considering how much time I spend arguing with people.  If Fuwanovel is to grow and embrace the rest the VN community as whole, it can't cling to the divisive ideals which Aaeru championed in the past.

[Guest]

Aaeru isn't here anymore, Tay is in charge. I don't understand why she's mentionned so much for her ideas and the direction she wanted the site to have.

The direction has clearly changed.

 

@Ren : He gave his opinion, he doesn't agree with how things are happening, he may be right or wrong but I don't think that justifies such an agressive behaviour. You can't discuss tastes and colors.

[arakura]

Aaeru isn't here anymore, Tay is in charge. I don't understand why she's mentionned so much for her ideas and the direction she wanted the site to have.

The direction has clearly changed.

I also wonder about this all the time. Everyone goes crazy posting about what Aaeru wanted and what Aaeru's vision was, but she's gone. I dont know if it's some reverence for her efforts or something else that makes everyone try so much to discern her goals and put them to work in Fuwa, but that's the only reason I can imagine so many people with varying interpretations holding her flag instead of their own. I'm not trying to judge anyone when I say that, I'm just a little perplexed about why there must be arguing about what she wanted instead of about what the current administration/members want. Why does Steve have to reference her posts from over a year ago as a means of validating his beliefs, and would it be too horrible to move slightly away from those original goals?

 

I know I said all that, but I really dont know, and I'm not here to judge you. Maybe your answer is 'yes, I will hold to what I believe that Aaeru believed, because she believed it' and that would be fine. And even though my opinion is a drop in the bucket, I'm split over these core issues and I think only time will give me the answer I want. What I wanted to say, ultimately, is that I think everyone should have an answer to my question that they are fully aware of, so that careful thought and not old zealousness is what we carry into the future.

[Steve]

We don't have to start the arguments about it even here.

Just in quick why I mention Aaeru often recently.

(and I talked about this with Tay in a friendly conversation, it is not like I have anything against him, it is just my concern)

- fuwanovel was Aaeru's gift to the community and however it was received doesn't matter for the purpose of this discussion. The important part is that you can change the gift, improve it and all, but you should never take it away from people who received it. So when I see people concerned about how their part of the gift seems like fading away, I will try to defend them. And I will talk with Tay and tell him about those people, because fuwa might be the only good home they have.

 

And as for Ren's comment, I have no idea what it was about. What race did I even insult to justify being called a racist, the PC master race playing VNs on steam or what?

[sanahtlig]

When Aaeru created this site, she attracted followers with views similar to her own.  Let's term them the "Old Guard".  The site has morphed over time, particularly during her absence, moving away from some of its founding ideals.  The Old Guard liked the site as it was, so naturally it's not happy with the changes that are occurring.  It wishes to turn back the clock and revive the ideals of the site's founder.

 

Opponents of the Old Guard would argue that the founding ideals were incoherent and in some cases, incompatible with each other in the first place.  Thus a new direction is necessary that emphasizes certain ideals and downplays others.

[Nayleen]

First things first, I listened to both episodes in the middle of the night, while being hungover and cold. You two got me started today, thank you for that.

 

That said, I couldn't agree more with Ren on his reply to Steve's post.

 

The site is undergoing a paradigm shift from a full-blown pirate site trying to communicate - no, indoctrinate -, that all copyright is evil in the post-scarcity society, even going as far as bundling propaganda videos in the early torrents, to more of a community and informational site, where unofficial translations can find their home, but spreading information and being the "big", approachable site with all the easily accessible information should clearly be the focus.

 

People also either don't know or seem to have forgotten that Aaeru didn't just leave, but did so in a way that would have left the site to crash and burn if Taylor hadn't stepped up to save it. I've been one of the people stating "Fuwanovel and Aaeru saved my life", but at the same time I'm sad and bitter that she didn't even have the decency to hand over the site when she was growing tired of it.

 

Taylor is running the show in a fashion that doesn't contradict the general mission statement, just the non-sustainable pirate and anti-copyright propaganda machine that was Aaeru's original intention. Please try to be accepting of the imminent changes, because Fuwanovel will of course stay the same at its core, but improve in various ways; The sacrifices being made along the way are done for the sake of sustainability. The site can't walk the thin rope that is running a pirate site forever without some major changes anyways, and I'd rather the site and its community go the safe route than trying to cling to "the old way", whose founder, prophet and god left.

 

I think it's time that we worked on actually bettering the site instead of just keeping running in crisis mode. It's time to settle back in to keep improving as a site and community.

 

Quick edit, back on topic: I'm looking forward to the next pieces of Fuwa history, since that's the interesting stuff I mostly don't know about.

[Mephisto]

Oh god I still remember all that copyright is evil stuff, those were the days. I'll probably check out these recordings on the weekend or something.

 

P.S: It's been a while nay, what's up. Is Naomi still around? Kind of lost track of you guys after that weird drama thing that I never figured out. 

 

I feel people still mention Aaeru precisely for the reason that she never "officially" passed on the site. This is still seen as Aaeru's website by the peope who were around when she was here since she never relinquished her claim on it. Maybe some official statement taking responsibility for the website and formally declaring the death of Aaeru would help in regards to this? 

 

@Steve You use the word "gift" in the strangest ways. Fuwanovel is a community. So you are saying the communtiy is a gift to the community? I can't say I completely follow you here. You say you can change this "gift", but you can't "take it away"? Well, taking away something is a method used to change something. If there was a rule that stated that everyone had to have a trap avatar, you would be the first to advocate changing this "gift" by removing it, would you not? 

 

Actually no, don't take it away because it was a gift given by Mephisto and there are people like Mephisto who don't want their gift to fade away. There is no other place I can force everyone to have trap avatars.  

[Nayleen]

If there was a rule that stated that everyone had to have a trap avatar, you would be the first to advocate changing this "gift" by removing it, would you not? 

The gift that keeps on giving... you the D.

[OriginalRen]

When Tay returns and messages me back, I am hoping to get a 3rd episode recorded for this series. I have a good idea for a topic!

[OriginalRen]

Hey everyone,

 

Tay and I are working on recording a 3rd episode in due time. Look forward to one really soon!

[Nayleen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

[OriginalRen]

Long overdue, here is the 3rd episode I recorded with Tay as part of our "Man Behind the Curtain" series. In this episode, we address the changes which are coming to the website, as well as the current leadership structure and plans for the front page of the website. Hopefully all of your questions will be answered in this episode, however Tay and I will be checking this thread in the next few days or so in order to answer any questions you may have, so let us know.

 

Man Behind the Curtain - Episode 3: Fuwanovel Spring Cleaning & Changes

 

 

Thanks for listening, and I hope you continue to support the cast!

[Tay]

Haven't listened to it yet, but really hoping I'm not completely inarticulate. Got a few nice PMs, so thanks for that!

 

If anybody has questions I'll be checking this thread periodically and I'll try to answer them. (AKA: I'll be here and not on the general Ren Podcast thread where I had posted)

[shcboomer]

Haven't listened to it yet, but really hoping I'm not completely inarticulate. Got a few nice PMs, so thanks for that!

 

If anybody has questions I'll be checking this thread periodically and I'll try to answer them. (AKA: I'll be here and not on the general Ren Podcast thread where I had posted)

Seems pretty good to me. You did a great job Tay.

[babiker]

Amazing episode! It cleared up quite a lot. I'm most looking forward to how "We are going to define ourselves.", as the current "make visual novels popular in the west" is a little too vague. Super hyped for the details.

 

I would like to add one suggestion to future episodes, and that is to link all the important referenced thread/posts, as searching around for them can be a bother.

[OriginalRen]

Amazing episode! It cleared up quite a lot. I'm most looking forward to how "We are going to define ourselves.", as the current "make visual novels popular in the west" is a little too vague. Super hyped for the details.

I would like to add one suggestion to future episodes, and that is to link all the important referenced thread/posts, as searching around for them can be a bother.

Sorry, I misread this. Ignore my original post.

[Zakamutt]

Much wub tay. Blog changes are indeed delicious, the only problem would potentially be getting along with the editor, or having completely different visions as to what should happen with it. I'm not that bad at interpersonal relationships if I try though, so shouldn't be a huge problem.

 

I feel that the second episode really addressed a lot of things I wanted to know / had problems with. I'm honestly not really into podcasts however, so I got to it realllly late (spoiler: a skype friend tipped me off to there being praise of me in ep 3 and I decided to go ahead and listen to 2 first). I do think the casts are engaging and work out fairly well, but I'm just not really into the medium.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Zakamutt

[Nayleen]

(Cross-referencing my earlier post in the podcast thread here) So I listened to the rest of the episode and gotta say, there was some insightful stuff in there, even for those who're fairly involved in the internals anyway... These need to happen more often though, because I've learned more from it than from talking to people for the past 2 1/2 months.